IGH hub for winter bike?
 

I'm cleaning up the old Univega Viva Sport that has been my winter bike for the past dozen years or so. I've repacked all the bearings a few times, but haven't done much else except rinse off the road salt with fresh water after most rides. The frame was getting unpleasantly rusty, though, so I've stripped it to the frame and immersed it in an OA bath. I'm not sure whether I'll dab some touch-up paint on the bare metal, or just rub the bare places with an oily rag occasionally.

Anyway, in the interest of minimizing the number of rust- and freeze-prone parts, I had been running it for years as a derailleur-less two speed (or "dingle speed," as it is called by the irreverent). It's worked well for me with 44-36 Biopace rings in front and two-speed 20-28 freewheel. I mostly poke along in the 44-20, but manually switch the chain to the 36-28 combination for long climbs. I coast a lot on downhills.

Although I don't mind moving the chain by hand, I have been thinking of replacing the current gearing setup with some kind of IGH hub, given that the bike is already in pieces. But I have a general sense that that hub gearing doesn't work especially well in wet, icy, salty conditions. Is that the case? Has anyone had success with IGH gearing under those sorts of conditions?

Winter is just around the corner. I'm all ears.

Waaaay back in the early '70s, I rode my Sears IGH 3-speed to High School swim practice. Swimming was a Winter semester sport. Our school didn't have a pool, so we used the local YMCA pool. BUT practice ran from 6am-8am. That meant that we were to be IN the water at 6am. My parents said that I signed up for it, so I had to get myself there. That meant leaving the house at around 5:30am in the middle of Cleveland winters! That was usually before our far-western Cleveland suburb even started plowing the streets. I used the knobbiest tires that I could find for the 26x1-3/8 steel rims... - this was long before MTB knobby tires!!! So my day started with a 3-mile ride to the YMCA, then a 2-mile ride between the Y and school after practice (with wet hair), and then a 2-1/2-mile ride home after school. I survived. I hosed the bike down whenever I could, and detail stripped the bike down in mid season (Christmas break) - oiling the inside of the frame and repacking all of the bearings... That bike rusted through towards the end of my Junior year of HS. I hit a snow/ice 'clinker' on the side of the road and the toptube broke near the seatpost due to rust. I had it welded, but it broke again a week or so later.

I got my first derailleur bike after that... An all-steel Fuji Special Tourer...

I don’t know what this story had to do with the original post but I enjoyed it.

Jon, I would think that a modern IGH, such as a Shimano 8 speed Alfine, would be a fantastic winter gearing set up. Pair it with an anti-rust chain, and "Bob's your retired uncle." :p

IGH were meant to shield the gearing from any unpleasant weather. The English will swear to it.

You'd probably be better off if the internals are oiled instead of greased. In that case, I'd probably avoid one with a coaster brake.

Having said this, I rode my bike with a 7-speed Shimano Nexus hub with a coaster brake and greased internals all over southern Sweden when I lived there, but it rarely goes below freezing there for very long. After the initial adjustment on the probably 20 year old hub, I never touched it again.

I have no experience with any IGH other than Sturmey Archer three speeds (AW and XRD3). In my experience, the gears are a bit too widely spaced. You might find a narrow double up front to be worthwhile, essentially running a half-step setup. You'd have to run with a tensioner.

The XRD3 is a drum brake hub with the same widely spaced gears as the AW and is (I think) permanently sealed, which might make it a good winter candidate. Mine replaced an AW on my mid-70s Schwinn Speedster. It's been trouble-free for several years, including putting around town during the winter.

Sorry, I had to run an errand before completing my thought....

I'd prefer an IGH for frozen Winter use simply because there would be less to ice up/render inoperable due to slush/ice/snowpack. My 3-speed IGH also had a coaster brake, so no worry about brakes not working/cables icing/ineffective rim brakes due to ice buildup on brakeshoes on chome steel rims...

IF I were to commute in winter again, I'd be using a good-old 3-speed with coaster brake without question as my primary choice -- either that or move to a warmer climate where snow/ice are not a factor!

Jon, I’ve made it through many Boston winters riding bikes equipped with IGH hubs. Only one I killed was a contemporary Sturmey Archer 2-speed kickback. In fact, I’m planning a winter commuter build right now using the new version of the Bendix 2-speed hub. I have a set of Schwalbe Marathon Winter tires that I’ll use if it gets icy.

I LOVE LOVE LOVE my Shimano Nexus 3spd for my 5 mile round-trip commute. Given you've been OK with a two speed, you'll love it, too.
I'll see your Vermont, and raise you mid-Michigan.The coldest I've ridden was -8 F, and I'm not ashamed to say I took the bus home that day, and the day after that.. but my hub shifted just fine, thank you.
The comment about oil vs. grease may be valid if it gets colder, I don't know.

If you can, get one with a drum brake, too. I'm using V brakes and they are feeling pretty sorry for themselves.
My winter bike is an H400 Cannondale with [of course] vertical dropouts. That required some math and some help from the internet to get the right cog in back and chainwheel in front.
"Half links" also help for the chain. If your bike has horizontal fork ends, you're golden without gymnastics.

I've ridden my snow bike December through March since 2008. Not every day, but maybe half the time.
The hub is about the only thing that isn't rusted, damaged, or otherwise messed up. These things are impervious. The wide gear range helps when the snow gets heavy and deep.
Best of luck !
cheers -mathias

Ding! Ding! Ding!

I've got one. You'll like it. Wide range overall with narrow steps in between.

Mine never goes in snow or salty roads because we just don't get that here. Heck, we barely even ever get rain.

I've got to agree with the Shimano 8 speed setup. In fact while not really as my winter bike I did do an unusual for me new purchase of a bike with a Shimano 8 speed IGH just this year. It' s my errand / do all bike and I certainly will be using it this winter. It's a dutch bike though, not a real ride for a workout road bike. But with the IGH, roller brakes, fully enclosed chain, dynamo hub, lights, fenders, etc it's a full on all winter beast. 3 stage powder coating and a whole lot of stainless steel hardware to resist rust. I figure It'll be the one bike I'll still be using as I get to be a really old geezer.

I've done the biking in winter thing for many years and have suffered through the frozen cassettes and all too many times. Winter use did figure in strongly with my decision to find a bike with a nice IGH. I am curious though to seem how the really cold days affect the IGH.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...cf81c15963.jpg

I've tried Shimano Nexus 8- and 7-speed hubs and just never was particularly happy with the gearing. Just felt like I was shifting too much in search of the perfect gear that wasn't there. Actually, I felt that way about the S-A/SunRace 5-speed IGH, too, which i ran on a couple of different mid-70s Raleigh road bikes, SuperCourse and Gran(s) Sport(s).

i put this together last spring for foul weather - so I'm looking forward to seeing if my 2spd S-A kickback will give me grief this winter. 2 speeds, kind of a tail wind gear and a head wind gear......
i had a single speed coaster brake on this bike, but I kept breaking spokes.


https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...ead0f4ed8c.jpg

If you can get by with rim brakes, I'd be inclined to go with an older Sturmey Archer AW hub, with marine grease in the bearings to keep the water out, and a 20-weight or 15-weight oil.

If you need a coaster brake or a drum brake, I'd look at one of the modern Sturmey hubs and convert to a lighter internal grease and marine grease seals once it's time for a service.

The reproduction Bendix Automatic two-speed is interesting to me as well, but I have no experience with the reproductions. The old ones were pretty good hubs, and they had strong coaster brakes (though they could be a bit noisy in low gear sometimes).

I would use a good quality paint on the bare spots rather than just oil. First, I don't like getting the oily film on my clothes, and second, the road brine pre-treat and the storm salt are lethal to steel. I was hauling an old steel bike over several hundred miles a couple Januaries ago when I was moving house. I got caught in a snow storm and ended up with brine and salt on the bike. All I can say is that the mitigation was hellish - anything bare metal (even with WD-40 on it) started to rust. This stuff on the roads is bad for bare steel or even steel with a coat of WD-40. Go with a good paint and fill the holes.

This is all good clean fun, and I guess I am leaning toward trying some flavor of Shimano 8-speed. If I understand correctly, Alfine hubs are considered to be a step up from Nexus, but the Alfine hubs only come with a 135 OLD. Nexus, it seems, can use narrower spacing? I am probably going to have to call Shimano directly about this--there's all sorts of conflicting information floating around. The old Univega frame I would expect to use the hub with is currently spaced at about 126. I've spread quite a few frames from 120 to 126, but 126 to 135 seems like kind of a big jump. I'd rather not do that.

A hub with a roller brake seems interesting, but with the big hills around here I would worry about overheating. Again, if I understand right, Nexus hubs are available in a rim-brake version (that is, with no provision for a hub brake of any kind), while Alfine comes in a disc version or a roller-brake version--if you want to use a rim brake, you use the disc version but don't install a rotor.

It's probably going to take me awhile to think this through.

A couple of my friends run Nexus 8sp hubs all year round in Boston. One has been trouble-free for 3 years now. The other got water in the hub and it stopped shifting below freezing until it was taken apart and dried out and relubed and now it's been trouble free again.

When I lived in Burlington VT and commuted to Colchester (about 4 miles with a descent to a river followed by a steep climb), I tried to purpose-build a winter commuter. I really hated everything about it. I had built a rear wheel with a NuVinci. This thing was a real friction box, especially in the cold. The freewheel mechanism also failed, but was warranteed. The front wheel had a Sturmey Archer XL-FDD drum/dynamo. Salty slush that was slung off the front tire into the fender would dribble down the forkblades and somehow into the hub drum via the reaction-arm, rendering it either completely useless as a brake when the slush refroze or promoting awful corrosion when the slush was liquid. I believe some corrosion occurred between the iron drum insert and the aluminum hub body, causing a big lump inside the drum and making for violent brake judder. I co not recommend the Sturmey Archer drum brake setup for New England salt and slush.

When the drum failed, I'd rely on the rear rollerbrake for the descent down Colchester Ave. into the Winooski valley. It was a model of rollerbrake with a very small cooling disc, but it was still fine for that. That's about 8% for a quarter mile maybe, with a red light at the bottom.

Now in Boston I commute on an ordinary bike with derailleurs and rim brakes. I replace the chain and cassette every spring and ride cautiously on the 4-6 days a year we actually have snow on the roads here, and that's just how it is.

I will point out that when getting my bike I purposely chose the upgraded roller brakes for improved cooling even though I don't think I'll have an issue. Just pointing out that there are various options available to improve cooling for those that are worried.

I commuted a couple of years through snowy winters. I found studded tires were a must and an aw hub worked pretty well. The shifter chain can become frozen and u need thin oil in the hub. At 20 below everything gets slow. As for limited ratios it didn't bother me. I was just happy to have working transportation.

Well, sometimes in New England, it snows when you don't expect it to, so you might not quite have the right tool for the job. This was from late October last year:
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...0e8e56ac8.jpeg

Excellent pic. I loved being the only bike on the road when I used to commute early mornings in the winter.

I hated the studded tires, but I think I'm in the minority.

When I used them commuting in Vermont, they posed problems at very low temperatures on dry road. When it was very cold, the rubber got hard enough that the studs would not compress into the tire under my weight as designed, and the rubber of the tire would not be touching the ground. This severely reduces traction and once caused me to fall. I also don't like the all-or-nothing aspect of studded tires. You don't start slipping gradually. Instead, you have all the grip up until some point at which you completely wipe out. I just don't think it's worth it. Also they're slow.

I am enjoying this whole discussion, so thanks to everyone who has chipped in so far.

As it happens, I do have a virtually new set of 700x30 studded tires, which I have never used because my Univega has 27" wheels. I had been thinking I would buy an IG hub and spokes and build up a new rear wheel using the current and apparently indestructible Araya rims, then throw on a pair of 27" Paselas I also have on hand.

But I'm now I'm beginning to think that it would be worth going to 700 wheels so I can use the studded tires. One option, instead of building up the wheelset myself (I have built many wheels and enjoy it, within reason), would be to buy a complete wheelset with hub, like this one:

https://www.amazon.com/Mercier-Nexus.../dp/B07HYF2XG3

Basic made-in-China quality, probably, and so nothing to write home about, but the price is right. I have seen hubs alone advertised at about the price of both wheels, so if I need to rebuild them on different rims later I wouldn't be out of pocket by much.

I'm going to stay quiet on the gears. My winter days were all fix gear once I made that discovery. (Though I never did head of a Sturmey Archer dying due to road salt if it had been oiled enough to keep oil leaking out. With the port and an oil can with the right spot, very, very easy to do.)

But I do know something about paint and salt roads. (Boston and Ann Arbor, 5 winters and no car for three of them.) I brush painted my Peugeot UO-8 with the same 2-part epoxy I painted my boat with. After two winters and a lot of abuse I did a quick clean, sand and solvent wipe, then another brush coat. Final winters were on nice sport Schwinn with likewise two coats of brushed epoxy. The 2-part epoxy goes into a flow mode as it sets, eliminating virtually all the brush strokes. (But - don't even think about touching anything up as it sets! It will stick to whatever you touch it with and become a mess.) Final finish is not super hard but very tough and chip resistant. Holds up in winter salt conditions very well.

I didn't do this then but if I were to do it again, I'd then coat the accessible tube insides with AMSOil heavy Duty Metal Protector. $8 a can that will do 3 bikes (vs $25 for one with Framesaver). All my current steel bikes are so coated.

You speak the truth about studded tires but they were my only safe choice some parts of the year. I hated putting them on but I knew I needed to. There were times I got off the bike only to slip and fall because I didn't realize how slick it was. I always went quite slow with the studs.