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-   -   New to this: Italian frame, what cassette?, will the brakes fit?, what have I done? (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=1255702)

Hondo6 08-03-22 01:19 PM


Originally Posted by grouchysmurf (Post 22597405)
My choice is to go full vintage, with some retro derailleurs, should I be lucky to find them cheap. There are some available on eBay, there is a guy selling them through the local forum, I may also wait for something less pricey.

I found some semi-cheap hubs (Shimano hb-1055, if I got it right); the rear one is 126 mm wide and would fit nicely. I am somewhat reluctant in terms of spreading the frame. That is not something I would like to do by myself and am not sure if any LBS would be opting do it for money, so the best option is to leave it as it is.

You might find these links useful for your inbound hubs:

https://si.shimano.com/en/pdfs/ev/HB...-1055-1113.pdf

https://si.shimano.com/en/pdfs/si/T-...000-00-ENG.pdf

https://si.shimano.com/en/pdfs/ev/FH...1055-1093A.pdf

smd4 08-03-22 01:22 PM


Originally Posted by grouchysmurf (Post 22597435)
Crank wouldn't come off. The spindle needed to be sawn through. Cranks are fine, but they may be tight and hard to remove from the new BB, so I should double-check things before I mount them for good.

Of course, I am just quoting them here, that is just what they said. Once the spindle was sawn off, they hammered the spindle -- or rather what was left out of it -- out of the crank and here we are.

Seems a bit heavy-handed to me...But I wasn't there.

Hondo6 08-03-22 01:26 PM

Regarding the crankset: is there a model number and manufacturer embossed on the back of the drive side crank arm? If so, that might allow you to determine the BB spindle length and taper (ISO or JIS) needed for your replacement BB.

Regarding the old BB: did your LBS remove the remaining BB parts from the frame and return them to you with the crank arms? It's a longshot, but if it was an old-style cup and cone BB there's a chance that the cups are still serviceable. If so, all you'd need is new ball bearings and a spindle of correct length.

Square taper spindles are getting hard to find, though. Might be easier to find a cartridge BB of the correct spindle length instead.

ShannonM 08-03-22 09:03 PM

I'm really confused by the whole "crank wouldn't come off, so they had to hacksaw the spindle" thing.

I can't see any way that that operation happens that doesn't leave the cut-off crankarm end of the (steel) spindle still un-removably stuck into the inside of whichever (aluminum) crankarm they couldn't remove.

More to the point, I cannot imagine any such scenario that would not end with, "So, I need a new crankset and bottom bracket." And, since cranksets and bottom brackets are almost always bought together, I would just go ahead and assume that any parts not destroyed by the removal aren't going to be reusable.

Which, really, is fine. That looks to me like an entry-level Suntour crank. Either Blaze or Edge... I forget which one had which finish on it... One was silver and the other was grey. Anyway, not worth any real effort to save, and I say that as a Suntour fan.

--Shannon

3alarmer 08-03-22 09:48 PM


Originally Posted by ShannonM (Post 22597924)
I'm really confused by the whole "crank wouldn't come off, so they had to hacksaw the spindle" thing.

I can't see any way that that operation happens that doesn't leave the cut-off crankarm end of the (steel) spindle still un-removably stuck into the inside of whichever (aluminum) crankarm they couldn't remove.

More to the point, I cannot imagine any such scenario that would not end with, "So, I need a new crankset and bottom bracket." And, since cranksets and bottom brackets are almost always bought together, I would just go ahead and assume that any parts not destroyed by the removal aren't going to be reusable.

Which, really, is fine. That looks to me like an entry-level Suntour crank. Either Blaze or Edge... I forget which one had which finish on it... One was silver and the other was grey. Anyway, not worth any real effort to save, and I say that as a Suntour fan.

--Shannon

...I have done this on a couple of occasions, without sawing the spindle. But with a badly stuck crankarm on the drives side (with the chainwheels and spider on it). You get the non drive arm removed with a puller, on a cup and cone setup. If you can loosen the drive side cup (which is sometimes not too badly stuck on an Italian frame), you just take that and the entire drive crank arm and spindle/cup out as an assembly. Then you brace the crank arm on some wood blocks, or maybe a pair of sawhorses, with the spindle hanging down, and drive it out with a big hammer and a drift that fits the spindle end. The crank comes off the spindle pretty easily this way.

I've never done it cutting the spindle, but I guess if you can get in there with a Sawzall, that would work too. It's a tapered crank socket, so there's nothing holding the spindle end in there except the press fit. It leaves the crank socket in reusable condition.

But I gradually changed over to heating the stubborn ones with a torch, and dripping in a penetrating oil. They come off with a puller pretty easily with a couple of cycles, heating and cooling with Freeze Off.

grouchysmurf 08-07-22 03:04 AM


Originally Posted by Hondo6 (Post 22597458)
Regarding the crankset: is there a model number and manufacturer embossed on the back of the drive side crank arm? If so, that might allow you to determine the BB spindle length and taper (ISO or JIS) needed for your replacement BB.

Regarding the old BB: did your LBS remove the remaining BB parts from the frame and return them to you with the crank arms? It's a longshot, but if it was an old-style cup and cone BB there's a chance that the cups are still serviceable. If so, all you'd need is new ball bearings and a spindle of correct length.

Square taper spindles are getting hard to find, though. Might be easier to find a cartridge BB of the correct spindle length instead.

The crankset is some low level Suntour, I believe?

As I am very new to it, I am learning it all with my own hard cash and didn't even think that salvaging of BB is possible to any extent. There were Italian BB available in the online store, for like $6, so not a big deal, I bought two of those, one of the same length, the other slightly shorter. Even if I don't use the latter, it may come in handy later.

grouchysmurf 08-07-22 03:11 AM


Originally Posted by ShannonM (Post 22597924)
Which, really, is fine. That looks to me like an entry-level Suntour crank. Either Blaze or Edge... I forget which one had which finish on it... One was silver and the other was grey. Anyway, not worth any real effort to save, and I say that as a Suntour fan.

I've spent many years on boardgamegeek -- this is a forum devoted to board games; I read mostly wargame forums -- like, you know, maps with hexagons, small cardboard chits / counters, dice, a 50 page rulebook.

Anyways, one of most frequent question asked there was "can you identify this counter for me". An OP would post a picture of a counter, from an obscure game from 70s or 80s, and people would usually respond in 15 minutes, giving a proper answer.

Now, ain't it exactly what happened here? You properly guessed the name of the crankset from a small picture -- this indeed is a Suntour, it says Radius. Don't know whether it's any good or not.

wheelreason 08-07-22 09:26 AM


Originally Posted by grouchysmurf (Post 22597435)
Crank wouldn't come off. The spindle needed to be sawn through. Cranks are fine, but they may be tight and hard to remove from the new BB, so I should double-check things before I mount them for good.

Of course, I am just quoting them here, that is just what they said. Once the spindle was sawn off, they hammered the spindle -- or rather what was left out of it -- out of the crank and here we are.

I can't wait to see what your FLBS does with the seatpost.....

grouchysmurf 08-07-22 09:49 AM


Originally Posted by wheelreason (Post 22601598)
I can't wait to see what your FLBS does with the seatpost.....

Nothing at the moment. I removed it myself.

bblair 08-10-22 09:42 AM

SheldonBrown.com and Velobase.com are your friends. You will learn more than you ever thought possible about your bike. And plan on your budget doubling. All the little stuff, like cable stops and seat post bolds. And water bottle cages and bolts.

P.S. I think you need a new bike shop. I have never heard of anyone sawing a bottom bracket spindle. New cartridge style BB are not too expensive, I'd toss the old cup and cone one.

smd4 08-10-22 10:49 AM


Originally Posted by bblair (Post 22605399)
P.S. I think you need a new bike shop. I have never heard of anyone sawing a bottom bracket spindle.

In 10 years working in various shops, when these types of spindles were the order of the day, I never saw this done. Personally.

bboy314 08-10-22 11:53 AM


Originally Posted by smd4 (Post 22605514)
In 10 years working in various shops, when these types of spindles were the order of the day, I never saw this done. Personally.

I can say Iíve done this once or twice, but with an angle grinder and only as a very last resort.


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