Nexus hub: shift cabling?
(Visiting here from the Classic & Vintage forum)
For the first time in over 50 years, I am going to have a bike with an IGH (internal geared hub); I am having wheels laced to include a Shimano Nexus 8 speed hub. So, it comes with a shifter & cable. Do I have to use the supplied cable, or specifically the housing, or can I change it? I am hoping to use conventional derailleur (or brake?) housing so I can change the color to fit the desired aesthetic. And does this technology require uninterrupted fully-housed cabling from shifter to hub, or can there be open segments in the run? |
While the current new bike with an IGH is usually using a full length casing I suspect this is to try to keep the cable/casing from becoming contaminated, the fewer ports of entry the less grit/water will get in. However sectioned lengths of casing work well too, just as has been the case with IGHs for decades. Do take some acre about the casing's bends, smooth large radius curve will have less friction than tight bends will have. How the hub's casing stop clip is aligned and where along the stay the last casing stop is the usual spot of greatest friction and/or contamination possibility. I suggest using casing stops that are slotted so casing removal for cleaning and lubing the inner cable is easily done.
The inner cable is typical der (1.2mm diameter) with the common Shimano head. The casing doesn't need to be gear/SIS stuff. Any quality lines casing can do. Just be sure to square off the ends after cutting to reduce the casing wiggle within the stops. Not asked about but... I set up my IGH bikes so the flat land riding gear is one of the higher ratio ones (on my old SA AW that means 3rd gear). One can always coast down the steep hills if you can't spin well, but up hill and there's no cheating:) Andy |
Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart
(Post 22791173)
While the current new bike with an IGH is usually using a full length casing I suspect this is to try to keep the cable/casing from becoming contaminated, the fewer ports of entry the less grit/water will get in. However sectioned lengths of casing work well too, just as has been the case with IGHs for decades. Do take some acre about the casing's bends, smooth large radius curve will have less friction than tight bends will have. How the hub's casing stop clip is aligned and where along the stay the last casing stop is the usual spot of greatest friction and/or contamination possibility. I suggest using casing stops that are slotted so casing removal for cleaning and lubing the inner cable is easily done. The inner cable is typical der (1.2mm diameter) with the common Shimano head. The casing doesn't need to be gear/SIS stuff. Any quality lines casing can do. Just be sure to square off the ends after cutting to reduce the casing wiggle within the stops.
Sounds like exactly the answer I needed, so I'll order cabling in the color I want for this project (brown to go along with a Brooks B17 "honey" saddle). So I do not need 100%-sheathed cable, that's great; to complete the retro look it would be fun to locate one of those metal clamp-on pulleys instead of a cable guide although using the modern hub, I presume I'd have to mount it near the bottom bracket instead of the seat cluster.
Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart
(Post 22791173)
Not asked about but... I set up my IGH bikes so the flat land riding gear is one of the higher ratio ones (on my old SA AW that means 3rd gear). One can always coast down the steep hills if you can't spin well, but up hill and there's no cheating:) Andy
|
You can use any compression less shift housing and do not need to run full length housing. Spiral wound housing works fine for 3 speed but hubs with more speeds should definitely be used with compression less. I would also stick with metal ferrules.
|
Which way to route the shift cable? For the modern IGHs that have the cable casing entering the cable stop clip that is attached to the hub routing along the chainstay works well. The cable and casing will travel under the BB and stay. To use an above the shell pulley would require the cable to wind around the stay to it's underside at some point, more bends more friction. To run the cable along the seat stay (and thus a top of stay pulley) will place the hub's casing stop clip in an awkward position to work with the cable's anchor bolt and how it is manipulated to attach to the cassette joint. Not impossible but a pain to due to the stays blocking access for your fingers.
Now if your IGH had the cable attaching to an indicator chain (like SA AWs) of a bell cranl (like Shimano 3 speeds have) the cable will be outboard of the stays as it travels from the BB or the seat stay top. If the chainstay is short or your feet are long one can clip the cable with the insides of your right heel. For these routing along the seat stay is better. Here's a shot of my self made SA AW (alloy hub shell, one of my gems:)) and its ultra light control cable pulley at the top of the seatstay. I suggest for your hub routing along the chainstay. Andy https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...422c42219d.jpg |
Originally Posted by Dan Burkhart
(Post 22791929)
You can use any compression less shift housing and do not need to run full length housing. Spiral wound housing works fine for 3 speed but hubs with more speeds should definitely be used with compression less. I would also stick with metal ferrules.
Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart
(Post 22792119)
Which way to route the shift cable? For the modern IGHs that have the cable casing entering the cable stop clip that is attached to the hub routing along the chainstay works well. The cable and casing will travel under the BB and stay. To use an above the shell pulley would require the cable to wind around the stay to it's underside at some point, more bends more friction. To run the cable along the seat stay (and thus a top of stay pulley) will place the hub's casing stop clip in an awkward position to work with the cable's anchor bolt and how it is manipulated to attach to the cassette joint. Not impossible but a pain to due to the stays blocking access for your fingers. Now if your IGH had the cable attaching to an indicator chain (like SA AWs) of a bell cranl (like Shimano 3 speeds have) the cable will be outboard of the stays as it travels from the BB or the seat stay top. If the chainstay is short or your feet are long one can clip the cable with the insides of your right heel. For these routing along the seat stay is better. Here's a shot of my self made SA AW (alloy hub shell, one of my gems:)) and its ultra light control cable pulley at the top of the seatstay. I suggest for your hub routing along the chainstay. Andy
|
Here's a couple pics of my Nexus 7, it looks the same as the Nexus 8 (sorry the background makes it kinda hard to see). The cable attachment point is inboard of the stay, you might be able to find a vintage metal clamp-on cable stop to mount halfway between the hub and BB shell. Then you'll use one groove under the shell (if it has them) to run the inner wire up to another stop on the downtube. This is for chainstay mounting, I don't know enough about vintage frames to figure out how you would use seatstay/toptube.
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...39a9f1cc2f.jpg https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...135396f1ce.jpg |
Originally Posted by Joe Remi
(Post 22792445)
Here's a couple pics of my Nexus 7, it looks the same as the Nexus 8 (sorry the background makes it kinda hard to see). The cable attachment point is inboard of the stay, you might be able to find a vintage metal clamp-on cable stop to mount halfway between the hub and BB shell. Then you'll use one groove under the shell (if it has them) to run the inner wire up to another stop on the downtube. This is for chainstay mounting, I don't know enough about vintage frames to figure out how you would use seatstay/toptube.
Per earlier post, there are no braze-ons on this frame, I need a single-sided clamp-on guide (wish me luck!) or a pulley. |
Originally Posted by Joe Remi
(Post 22792445)
Here's a couple pics of my Nexus 7, it looks the same as the Nexus 8 (sorry the background makes it kinda hard to see). The cable attachment point is inboard of the stay, you might be able to find a vintage metal clamp-on cable stop to mount halfway between the hub and BB shell. Then you'll use one groove under the shell (if it has them) to run the inner wire up to another stop on the downtube. This is for chainstay mounting, I don't know enough about vintage frames to figure out how you would use seatstay/toptube.
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...39a9f1cc2f.jpg https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...135396f1ce.jpg I am sure more experienced members will clarify. |
Think through how you're going to release cable tension so you can disconnect the cable (removing the wheel to fix a flat).
|
Originally Posted by tiger1964
(Post 22791918)
The guy building my wheels sent me a gearing chart, expressed in ratios... and this is a far wider range than I am used to (I'm a flat-lander, basically). Supposedly 5th is the 1:1 gear and I spend a lot of time riding, on other bikes, in the 75 to 78 G.I. range so I'll select chainring and cog to achieve that... but it makes 8th gear about 129 G.I.! Wow.
|
Originally Posted by tcs
(Post 22796466)
Think through how you're going to release cable tension so you can disconnect the cable (removing the wheel to fix a flat).
Originally Posted by tcs
(Post 22796470)
Suggest setting 6th gear @75g.i. ish on your Shimano 8-speed IGH so gears 7 & 8 will actually have some utility and you'll use the draggy 4th gear less often.
|
Originally Posted by tiger1964
(Post 22796521)
Hmm. I presume the Nexus does not have a way to do that?
|
Originally Posted by tiger1964
(Post 22796521)
So, you feel the 6th ratio is not significantly less efficient in terms of friction than 5th? 18T/50T should get me there, then. Finding a 50T 50.4mm BCD ring should be doable.
PS - Folks fret over efficiency on IGHs. Nobody ever thinks twice about the efficiency difference among various derailleur gears. Unless you're going to time trial or randonneur on this IGH bike, I wouldn't worry about it. But that's just me. |
Not trying to derail the thread but.....
We very rarely get these 8 speed hubs in, but we have gotten some 4 speeds. We learned the easy way to set the cable anchor bolt for them by measuring 101mm from the center of the bolt to the end of the cable housing (shifter in lowest gear). Just curious is this the same measurement for the 8 speed hubs? |
I’m following along on this. I’m new to 8 speed IGHs & have a Sturmey Archer on a recumbent trike. Anything I can learn about them in general is bound to be valuable.
|
Originally Posted by JoeTBM
(Post 22796991)
Not trying to derail the thread but.....
We very rarely get these 8 speed hubs in, but we have gotten some 4 speeds. We learned the easy way to set the cable anchor bolt for them by measuring 101mm from the center of the bolt to the end of the cable housing (shifter in lowest gear). Just curious is this the same measurement for the 8 speed hubs? |
Originally Posted by Dan Burkhart
(Post 22791929)
You can use any compression less shift housing and do not need to run full length housing. Spiral wound housing works fine for 3 speed but hubs with more speeds should definitely be used with compression less. I would also stick with metal ferrules.
|
Originally Posted by RCMoeur
(Post 22797163)
On my chrome cruiser with a Nexus 7 I've used a continuous run of spiral-wound housing for nearly 20 years, and once I get the hub properly adjusted I've had no problems keeping it that way. A 7-speed IGH shifter pulls a lot more cable per increment than a comparable rear derailleur system.
|
Originally Posted by Dan Burkhart
(Post 22797442)
Far be it from me to argue with what works, but the length of cable pull is far less important than the precision of the increments, so I will be sticking with compressionless.
|
Originally Posted by Joe Remi
(Post 22792445)
Then you'll use one groove under the shell (if it has them) to run the inner wire up to another stop on the downtube.
|
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:47 AM. |
Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.