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-   -   Totally Tubular (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=154679)

pastorbobnlnh 08-04-20 09:04 AM


Originally Posted by Wileyone (Post 21622912)
I think you meant to quote @wildone.
This is becoming contagious.

Actually I think I meant to quote Wildwood ! :twitchy: Sheesh--- this can get confusing some times. Must be the masks we are wearing which keeps us from recognizing each other!

DiabloScott 08-04-20 11:38 AM


Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh (Post 21622910)
DiabloScott spoken like an engineer--- but I'm just guessing. ;)

That wasn't a guess, that was a conclusion based on observations and evidence. Well done!

Licensed in CA and HI.

woodcraft 08-05-20 09:15 AM

I hope those CS33 pro 24 tires ride better than the S33 pro 24 ones do,

because those ride like bricks.:mad:

pastorbobnlnh 08-05-20 12:33 PM


Originally Posted by woodcraft (Post 21624943)
I hope those CS33 pro 24 tires ride better than the S33 pro 24 ones do,

because those ride like bricks.:mad:

WOW! You've actually ridden bricks for tires!?! :eek: That must have been so uncomfortable because I imagine that no amount of chipping, scraping or sanding will make a brick smooth and round. :innocent:

As soon as I can I'll post a report on my reaction to the Tufo CS33 Pro 24s. :D

79pmooney 08-05-20 12:47 PM


Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh (Post 21625303)
WOW! You've actually ridden bricks for tires!?! :eek: That must have been so uncomfortable because I imagine that no amount of chipping, scraping or sanding will make a brick smooth and round. :innocent:

As soon as I can I'll post a report on my reaction to the Tufo CS33 Pro 24s. :D

I have, quite literally, Last September's Cycle Oregon. Rained days 1 through 4. Not all the time but hard at times. Bike never saw the indoors. Spent nights beside the tent. Night 3 it rained hard. Temps went into the 20s. Bike was near unridable. Blocks of ice in the tires. (Probably from pumping up with pumps that had bee in the same wet,) It took a full hour before temps came up enough to melt the ice and return my rubber to "tires" from blocks. Now those were clinchers but I I suspect I would have had a different but just as uncomfortable ride on frozen tubulars.

WGB 08-05-20 09:06 PM

Tubular questions - Rim strips/base tape?


I was just about to mount my first set of Tubulars. Got the Mastik ready, Tubulars pre-stretched on the rims. Was just about to start sanding when I read the label on the Mastic which mentioned glue on the base tape.


Back when I got the rims I cleaned them completely (before I learned that old glue wasn't bad). So, basically I am starting from scratch with no glue base.


I got several sets of rims in a deal. Some of them had no form of rim tape under the tires (I threw out the badly worn tires) and some had a rim tape but it was attached to the tires.


Q1) When they refer to base tape, is that the same as rim strips, such as I'd use on clinchers? Mostly I had used a rubber type though some clincher wheels had the Velox stuff. I just checked the remaining tubular tire tire I still have mounted and it has a cloth tape that seems to stick out beyond the edge of the rim.


Q2) Is this tape necessary or just nice to have? Can i live without it?


Q3) If I have to have a base tape, what should I look for? Specific type or brand? I googled base tape and no luck. I google rim tape and that there's lots of that. Anything to avoid? The only ones I have are rubber rim strips.

79pmooney 08-05-20 09:27 PM


Originally Posted by WGB (Post 21625995)
Tubular questions - Rim strips/base tape?


I was just about to mount my first set of Tubulars. Got the Mastik ready, Tubulars pre-stretched on the rims. Was just about to start sanding when I read the label on the Mastic which mentioned glue on the base tape.


Back when I got the rims I cleaned them completely (before I learned that old glue wasn't bad). So, basically I am starting from scratch with no glue base.


I got several sets of rims in a deal. Some of them had no form of rim tape under the tires (I threw out the badly worn tires) and some had a rim tape but it was attached to the tires.


Q1) When they refer to base tape, is that the same as rim strips, such as I'd use on clinchers? Mostly I had used a rubber type though some clincher wheels had the Velox stuff. I just checked the remaining tubular tire tire I still have mounted and it has a cloth tape that seems to stick out beyond the edge of the rim.

Q2) Is this tape necessary or just nice to have? Can i live without it?

Q3) If I have to have a base tape, what should I look for? Specific type or brand? I googled base tape and no luck. I google rim tape and that there's lots of that. Anything to avoid? The only ones I have are rubber rim strips.

"glue on the base tape" - I'm sure they mean the other base tape, the tape on the tire over the stitching. That tape must be glued securely before you mount the tire since its bond is just as important as the tire to rim bond..

Keep in mind there have been at least two translations between the original instructions and what we read. Italian to what I call "British" (so as not to confuse it with the language Americans speak, commonly called "English"), then British to English (rarely) then read in English. I suspect "base tape" they refer to has suffered that course.

Ben

jimmuller 08-06-20 04:45 AM

Is there a thread for "tubeless" or can we discuss them here? I've been mostly absent from BF, have been wearing out my clinchers indoors only.

Here's why I ask about tubeless. A long-time friend took a spill recently, fractured her clavicle, got a concussion through her new helmet. She has been running triathlons for 20 years, maybe longer, is always super-fit. She and her husband moved away a few years ago so we don't see them now, just keep in virtual touch. Her husband wrote that the accident was the result of a tubeless tire going flat or blowing out or something. I don't know the exact wording, nor would I know if his terminology is accurate. Where in the spectrum of tire types and tire properties would this description fall? I've always skipped discussion of any newfangled hybrid tire types.

pastorbobnlnh 08-06-20 05:14 AM

jimmuller so sorry about your friend's accident. I hope she makes a full and speedy recovery.

I don't have any experience with tubeless tires other than from conversations with and observing my MTB fanatic niece and her husband. They run tubeless on most of the MTBs (which they have dozens) and some of their road bikes.

Tubeless tires are clinchers which are run on special rims which are usually marked "tubeless ready" (they also work with inner tubes). The rim tape covering the spoke holes helps to create an airtight seal. IIRC, tubeless tires are always run with a latex sealant in order to "finalize" the airtight seal and help protect against minor punctures.

Hope this is helpful. For MTB's the argument to use is the wheel is lighter and PSI can be run lower (without a fear of a pinch flat) for better traction. For road bikes the argument is that a tire without a tube offers less rolling resistance. Hopefully there will be other riders with more experience using tubeless wheels that can add their real world observations and experiences.

However, tubeless tires are not tubular tires or tyres. :D

masi61 08-06-20 07:37 AM


Originally Posted by jimmuller (Post 21626167)
Is there a thread for "tubeless" or can we discuss them here? I've been mostly absent from BF, have been wearing out my clinchers indoors only.

Here's why I ask about tubeless. A long-time friend took a spill recently, fractured her clavicle, got a concussion through her new helmet. She has been running triathlons for 20 years, maybe longer, is always super-fit. She and her husband moved away a few years ago so we don't see them now, just keep in virtual touch. Her husband wrote that the accident was the result of a tubeless tire going flat or blowing out or something. I don't know the exact wording, nor would I know if his terminology is accurate. Where in the spectrum of tire types and tire properties would this description fall? I've always skipped discussion of any newfangled hybrid tire types.

ditto to what pastorbobnlnh said. Sorry your friend was injured and the tubeless tire going flat and causing an accident. It would be helpful to know if the tire failure was of a road, gravel or mtb tire.

Iím dabbling in road tubeless and so far have had a lot of issues with valves, mounting, rim tape and sealant. Iíve only actually done about 3 road rides on tubeless. I have DT Swiss R460 (tubeless ready) rims that were built up into some nice 24 front/28 rear Dura Ace 7800 hubs. These can be ridden with or without tubes. I donít want to go off on a tangent since this thread is about tubular tires after all.

Suffice it to say: road tubeless has its own unique learning curve. On 2 of my 3 test rides on the tubeless my front tire held pressure but my rear tire lost pressure. Solving the puzzle of the lost pressure involves doing your due diligence as a mechanic, dismounting the tire then visually inspecting for evidence of sealant migration under the rim tape into the spoke holes or around the valve stem. The dictum: if at first you donít succeed, try, try againĒ is applicable here. There are are lots of little taping tricks I am learning and tubeless valve tricks too that seem to be helping.

When my rear tire lost pressure (it went from 110 psi at the beginning of the ride down to 49 psi at the end of a 42 mile ride), it was squishy but still rideable. While it is unpleasant and requires extra caution riding on a soft tire, soft road tubeless tires are a bit more rideable that a soft tubed tire. The tread is thicker since there is no tube. Normal inflation pressures on road tubeless can be significantly lower (so they say) but I am not far enough in my due diligence and road testing to have it all sorted, yet.

So I would be curious to know the nature of your friendís crash causing tire failure considering my experience which is that, yeah - they will deflate on you if you donít have them sorted but seem to still be marginally rideable. And this is one area where tubeless is a lot like tubular tires since legend has it that flat tubulars are rideable in a pinch.

squirtdad 08-06-20 10:40 AM


Originally Posted by jimmuller (Post 21626167)
Is there a thread for "tubeless" or can we discuss them here? I've been mostly absent from BF, have been wearing out my clinchers indoors only.

Here's why I ask about tubeless. A long-time friend took a spill recently, fractured her clavicle, got a concussion through her new helmet. She has been running triathlons for 20 years, maybe longer, is always super-fit. She and her husband moved away a few years ago so we don't see them now, just keep in virtual touch. Her husband wrote that the accident was the result of a tubeless tire going flat or blowing out or something. I don't know the exact wording, nor would I know if his terminology is accurate. Where in the spectrum of tire types and tire properties would this description fall? I've always skipped discussion of any newfangled hybrid tire types.

There are a ton of threads on tubeless in the mechanics forum. the whole spectrum from converting non tubeless ready rims to tubeless, using tubeless tires vs regular clinchers,

there seem to be ton's of issues (to be expected though when people are looking for help) from seating the beads (in many cases need a compressor and they make a compressed air bottle thing to help) to difficulty mounting/unmounting tire, to which sealant is best, to on road repair

my take from reading is people have better results with tubeless ready wheels and tubeless specific tires

there are some big fans, especially in goat head country, for flat prevention

Personally it think a lot of this is like flat bars, it's good for mountain bikes so it is good for road bikes blind thinking.

as i understand it tubeless was to allow mtb tires low pressure without pinch flats

I personally don't see the value add for tires 32mm or less at higher pressures, especially with the issues seen, it would be a lot easier for many of them to go tubular

again some love them (my lbs had an article about how tubeless increases rim failire, but I can't find it)

other wise I don't think adding lots on tubeless would be good in this stick thread :)

DiabloScott 08-06-20 11:09 AM


Originally Posted by WGB (Post 21625995)
Tubular questions - Rim strips/base tape?
Q1) When they refer to base tape, is that the same as rim strips, such as I'd use on clinchers? Mostly I had used a rubber type though some clincher wheels had the Velox stuff. I just checked the remaining tubular tire tire I still have mounted and it has a cloth tape that seems to stick out beyond the edge of the rim.
Q2) Is this tape necessary or just nice to have? Can i live without it?
Q3) If I have to have a base tape, what should I look for? Specific type or brand? I googled base tape and no luck. I google rim tape and that there's lots of that. Anything to avoid? The only ones I have are rubber rim strips.

Rim tape refers to tape on the rims to cover the spoke holes for clincher and tubeless tires, there is no reason for rim tape with tubulars.
Base tape refers to tape on the tubular tires that covers the stitching. It comes already on the tires, it's not something you buy separately and install. Tufos famously do not have stitching but they still have base tape for the bonding surface with the rim.
Some experienced tubular users don't put glue on the base tape, I suggest you do it for your first mounts and then re-evaluate whenever it comes time to take a tire off.
People sometimes conflate the terms rim tape with base tape, so be aware of that possibility whenever this discussion comes up.
Sounds like you're doing everything right.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...1fb7a8f1cb.jpg
tubular tire base tape

WGB 08-06-20 01:25 PM

DiabloScott

Thank you!!

DiabloScott 08-06-20 02:01 PM


Originally Posted by WGB (Post 21626887)
DiabloScott

Thank you!!

I should also have mentioned "tubular tape"; double-sided sticky tape used instead of glue, a few different brands available.

New tubular users sometimes get all three of these things confused - rim tape/strips, base tape, gluing/mounting tape.

WGB 08-07-20 11:23 AM

Im good now. Have a set in visiting ye locale mechanic for trueing and will have first coat on tonight (worst case tomorrow), 2nd coat tomorrow night or Sunday morning then mounted to sit for 24 hrs.
Tubulars, wheel set, new can of glue and brazing brushes. Should be ready to play by Monday.

jimmuller 08-07-20 03:23 PM

To those of you who responded to my tubeless tire query, squirtdad , masi61 , pastorbobnlnh , thank you.

I received answers from the accident's victim and she is doing well! No surgery required on the clavicle. Memory, vision, hearing, and good spirits have returned.

She was riding with her daughter, son-in-law, and grandchild on a Klein road bike with road wheels. She texted me pics of the wheels. The look pretty normal for modern low-spoke-count wheels. They were riding what she called a bike trail, not mbt-quality dirt though possibly gravel. Normally she rides fast but they were doing maybe 10mph. She had had a slow leak but did not have a pump, stopped at a repair station on the trail but the pump didn't work. So her son-in-law rode off to a bike shop a quarter mile away, came back with a CO2 cartridge. (Uh-oh.) No gauge so they just put some CO2 in the tire and rode away. A hot day, temperature around 90, maybe the tire got hotter. Five miles later the tire blew. She said it was far louder than any blowout she'd ever heard. Her daughter and son-in-law thought she'd been shot.

She went over the handlebar, woke up in a ditch, vision and hearing gone. When her hearing returned she recognized her daughter, told her she'd broken her clavicle, commented several times how loud it was. Still no vision. When the EMTs arrived they asked where she lived and she said "If I had to guess I live in ..., was riding in ...". They asked her to remember a color and a number. She could not. In the ambulance her vision returned.

She's doing better now. She even asked if I knew where she could get some more tubeless road tires, said all the places she checked into were about mtb's, even asked if anyone in BF could point her to a source. Then she wrote that she's trying to decide if she really wants to ride tubeless again. Also noted memo-to-self: Carry a gauge! I would add carry a full-frame pump unless you're in a competition.

Newfangled tires and CO2 cartridges! Never trust 'em. Fortunately she will come out of this just fine, and all 110lbs (I'm guessing) of her fighting spirit will be riding hard again.

kcblair 08-07-20 04:44 PM

Hello Tubular Fans, after getting back into riding with tubulars , the last 4 years, I got my first flat. Tufo S33's . I have Stans sealant in the tubs. The tire picked up something, middle of the tread, about 1mm. The sealant worked fine, continued to ride. Couple rides later, no issue. Now, the sealant isn't sealing. Had to stop twice on a recent ride, turned the tub to bottom, sealant sealed. 6 miles later, leaking again. The puncture is less than 1mm. So, clincher wheel set back on, and ordered another Tufo S33. Also, I did add 1 oz. of sealant , after the second time the leak started.

Question, has anyone tried to fix a tiny puncture with a plug. I'm thinking a small piece of twine or carpet thread , soaked in tire patch glue , gingerly inserted into the puncture ? This tubular only has 400 miles on the ground. Like to try something, before I toss $32 in the trash .

Thank you for your help. KB

Classtime 08-08-20 01:56 PM

kcblair I have had similar experiences with sealant in Tufo tires. My experience was with Tufo Tubular Clinchers but I imagine the construction is similar. The sealant would work until you were out on the road a while and then not. I've had good luck using sealant in Continental Sprinter and Competition and also Vittoria Rally and Corsa.

A plug in a tubular tire would have to find its way into the inner tube. I'm not sure that is likely.

kcblair 08-08-20 02:57 PM


Originally Posted by Classtime (Post 21630118)
kcblair I have had similar experiences with sealant in Tufo tires. My experience was with Tufo Tubular Clinchers but I imagine the construction is similar. The sealant would work until you were out on the road a while and then not. I've had good luck using sealant in Continental Sprinter and Competition and also Vittoria Rally and Corsa.

A plug in a tubular tire would have to find its way into the inner tube. I'm not sure that is likely.

Thanks for the info. I thought there was no inner tube , in the Tufo tires, like a 1 piece construction . Oh well, I've got 2 spares , before I try something else. KB,

Classtime 08-08-20 05:11 PM


Originally Posted by kcblair (Post 21630214)
Thanks for the info. I thought there was no inner tube , in the Tufo tires, like a 1 piece construction . Oh well, I've got 2 spares , before I try something else. KB,

They could be. Maybe somebody has a worn out one and can cut it open to see.

kcblair 08-08-20 06:55 PM


Originally Posted by Classtime (Post 21630394)
They could be. Maybe somebody has a worn out one and can cut it open to see.

I took a look at the diagram on Tufo's website, and it doesn't mention an inner tube. Just a "Inside airtight layer is made of a special butyl-rubber compound"
KB

seedsbelize 08-08-20 07:42 PM


Originally Posted by kcblair (Post 21630549)
I took a look at the diagram on Tufo's website, and it doesn't mention an inner tube. Just a "Inside airtight layer is made of a special butyl-rubber compound"
KB

That was my understanding. Tufo is one piece construction. No inner tube. So a plug should work. I saw a video, long ago, which showed a guy using super glue to repair one.

pastorbobnlnh 08-09-20 07:36 PM


Originally Posted by kcblair (Post 21630214)
Thanks for the info. I thought there was no inner tube , in the Tufo tires, like a 1 piece construction . Oh well, I've got 2 spares , before I try something else. KB,

Take a look at this: https://www.probikekit.com/bicycle-t.../11211219.html

Specifically looks as if it works with Tufos. I might go this route on my Tufo Tubular Clinchers

vinasity 08-09-20 08:08 PM

Hello All! I just came across my first bike with tubulars. The bike came with the original tires that are toast.... 30 yrs old.

The wheels are Ambrsio Synthesis from the late 80ís to my understanding the wheels are 22.5 wide.

Since this is my first encounter is it correct that i can fit 25-28 mm wide tires on these wheels?

i want to make sure before I buy the tires.
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...ffea5888f.jpeg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...fd9199c19.jpeg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...fc1f1bc5c.jpeg

DiabloScott 08-09-20 09:57 PM


Originally Posted by vinasity (Post 21632358)
Hello All!

Since this is my first encounter is it correct that i can fit 25-28 mm wide tires on these wheels?

yup.

vinasity 08-09-20 10:16 PM


Originally Posted by DiabloScott (Post 21632482)
yup.

Great!!! Thanks!

79pmooney 08-09-20 10:21 PM

To elaborate a little on DiabloScott's "Yup": widths make little difference for either rim or tire. Nobody thought twice about running the fat (30c) Del Mondos of 40- years ago on skinny racing rims.

That said, there are some newer tires with different construction that I've heard mount better on certain rims. But if you are running any of the classic tubulars and any rim remotely close to "normal" don't sweat it. Just do a good glue (or tape) job.

vinasity 08-09-20 11:03 PM


Originally Posted by 79pmooney (Post 21632503)
To elaborate a little on DiabloScott's "Yup": widths make little difference for either rim or tire. Nobody thought twice about running the fat (30c) Del Mondos of 40- years ago on skinny racing rims.

That said, there are some newer tires with different construction that I've heard mount better on certain rims. But if you are running any of the classic tubulars and any rim remotely close to "normal" don't sweat it. Just do a good glue (or tape) job.

Good to know! Thanks! I was surprised when i saw the tires and wanted get a better
understanding.

vinasity 08-09-20 11:04 PM


Originally Posted by 79pmooney (Post 21632503)
To elaborate a little on DiabloScott's "Yup": widths make little difference for either rim or tire. Nobody thought twice about running the fat (30c) Del Mondos of 40- years ago on skinny racing rims.

That said, there are some newer tires with different construction that I've heard mount better on certain rims. But if you are running any of the classic tubulars and any rim remotely close to "normal" don't sweat it. Just do a good glue (or tape) job.

Good to know! Thanks! I was surprised when i saw the tires and wanted get a better
understanding.

CV-6 08-09-20 11:16 PM


Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh (Post 21632298)
Take a look at this: https://www.probikekit.com/bicycle-t.../11211219.html

Specifically looks as if it works with Tufos. I might go this route on my Tufo Tubular Clinchers

This has to be used with CaffeLatex already in the tube. It will not work by itself.


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