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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

dweenk 06-04-20 01:32 PM

" He says there's likely going to be more, he's cleaning out some old garage somewhere but wouldn't say where. I gave him another bucket full of old cans. (I can keep trading old aluminum cans for bike parts for a long time, I've been saving aluminum cans for 30 years, there's a dozen or so 55 gallon barrels down back full of crushed cans)."

You are indeed a very rich man, but your wealth may not last long - plan for the future.

gster 06-04-20 01:59 PM


Originally Posted by Ballenxj (Post 21514554)
Thanks.

I have a saved search on Kijiji for Raleigh Tourist and this showed up today.
I was actively buying them a few years back for a period TV show.
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f29e06bf27.png

ascherer 06-04-20 02:10 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 21514518)
A New Raleigh Tourist
What's wrong with this bike?
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...38706d72e4.jpg

Looks slightly overinflated ;)

gster 06-04-20 05:00 PM


Originally Posted by dirtman (Post 21515165)
Not sure on the fenders. The fender braces are solid aluminum, sort of half round in shape. The sheetmetal is identical to a painted set on any other Raleigh or Raleigh built bike with one exception, these are 3mm wider overall. The small chrome tip is the same as well.
The chainguard is a cheap Wald replacement, not sure why, its got two tabs up front for the hockey stick shaped Raleigh guard on it.
I pumped up the tires again and for some reason they held air this time, when I pumped them up yesterday when I first brought it home they were flat in a few hours. They seem to be fine now a day later though.
They need to be replaced, they're so dry rotted they crackle and crunch as you ride. The rear tire is shedding bits of rubber off the sidewalls leaving just patches of the inner cords.
The chrome looks like it'll clean up great and the wheels are pretty much perfect with the only issue being that the spokes are sort of black in color and it won't rub off. Its as if the zinc coating turned dark, mostly just on the rear wheel.
I removed the rusty, partially seized chain and stuck it in a bath of Evapo-Rust last night and by this afternoon it was rust free and every link was freed up. I hosed it off, blew it off with air and oiled it up. I'll have to go through the BB, Headset and hubs but so far its looking like decent bike.
I'm guessing someone likely took a 1971-72 Raleigh Sports frame set and built it up with the parts from something from 1965. Maybe a lesser brand like a Hercules, Robin Hood, or such.
The pump cleaned up pretty nice too, its got some pitting but its presentable and it still pumps are, although the hose isn't likely long for this world.
I may just strip the bike down and take all the chrome outside and hose it down with some wire wheel cleaner to brighten it up in a hurry, its faster than waiting for the Evapo-Rust to work and it leaves a much shinier result, you just have to get after it faster once its dry so it don't rust up right away.
Even the saddle is in decent shape, the cover is unripped, but I found the Brooks metal tag tied to the bottom of the inside of the saddle with some string.

The padded vinyl saddle is most like what you would see on a newer Sprite 10 speed, the fenders are still an unknown, the rims are Dunlop Endrick style, the rear hub is dated 2-65, and they didn't show brown as a paint option until 1970, and the tires are not Raleigh branded but Dunlop Sprite branded and likely older than the wheelset.
The kickstand is steel, its not Wald but similar, but marked "Made in England". I'm not sure if its just a sloppy poor design or just the wrong stand for the bike, it flips too far forward to be stable and if the handle bars flop over, the bike teeter's on falling over on the left side as it pivots around the stand with the back wheel nearly off the ground. It folds up nicely but goes too far forward and reaches too far outward. I may swap it for a twin leg center stand.

The same guy came back today with several piles of old bike parts, one is a 20 gallon trash can full or bike stems and kickstands, which are a combination of old road bike and British bike parts, and two old TV boxes full of old chrome British crank sets, and two 30 gallon kitchen trash cans full of miscellaneous used bike parts that have been bagged in super heavy zip lock bags and marked with various bike model names. He says there's likely going to be more, he's cleaning out some old garage somewhere but wouldn't say where. I gave him another bucket full of old cans. (I can keep trading old aluminum cans for bike parts for a long time, I've been saving aluminum cans for 30 years, there's a dozen or so 55 gallon barrels down back full of crushed cans).
I asked if there were any more bikes and he said there's a few hanging in the rafters he hasn't gotten to yet. I told him to bring any bike parts here before going to the scrap yard.


https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5c27aec1ac.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...1be3e5ed81.jpg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...748dcf0c49.jpg

I'd tell that guy to keep coming by.

dirtman 06-04-20 05:44 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 21515533)
I'd tell that guy to keep coming by.

He knows where to bring them. He cleaned out a place last fall that was full of Stihl chainsaws, He brought me 20 or so that were in excellent condition, plus a small chainsaw milling fixture. Last summer I trade him a 55 gal. barrel full of aluminum cans for a truck load of steel parts room shelving and 9 sections of pallet racking like they use in Home Depot.He cleaned out a defunct electronics store somewhere and they had TV's stored on the heavier racks and the rest was all small appliances and parts in the back. I used the pallet racking all around the outside walls in my basement, and across the back wall of the garage at my other house, and shelved out about 1/2 of my basement and the whole upstairs of my garage. Its nice when my old beer cans can buy something I can use.

gster 06-05-20 07:51 AM

A Couple of recent postings on Kijiji, Toronto
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5742bcf3ba.png
Listed as a 1955 Mercury 3 speed for $80.00!
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b81885b89e.png
I've not heard of the Mercury brand before.
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...1955302ba6.png
Her-cu-matic trigger and hub.
Then there's this rare treasure
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f880d1b9c2.jpg
Listed as a Raleigh 2 Speed, it can be yours for a mere $1000.00!
I believe the tires hold air.

carfreefamily 06-05-20 09:41 AM

Durability of Old Raleigh Chainrings
 
I ride my 1952 Raleigh regularly. Right now we're probably covering about 300 miles a month.

Unfortunately, I'm a worrier, and I worry about wearing down the chainring. I know the old steel chainrings are more durable than alloy chainrings, but I seem to need to replace those on my other bikes every 5 - 10 years or so, as the teeth wear. Unless I missed something when I was working on the bike, the chainring is integral to the crank right? Once it wears down, I have to find both a new chainring and a new crankarm. Is this something I should consider and ride my other bikes more often, or does the steel chainring really last indefinitely compared to an alloy chainring?

Thanks!

Paul Cooley
Santa Fe

Salubrious 06-05-20 10:43 AM


Originally Posted by carfreefamily (Post 21516648)
I ride my 1952 Raleigh regularly. Right now we're probably covering about 300 miles a month.

Unfortunately, I'm a worrier, and I worry about wearing down the chainring. I know the old steel chainrings are more durable than alloy chainrings, but I seem to need to replace those on my other bikes every 5 - 10 years or so, as the teeth wear. Unless I missed something when I was working on the bike, the chainring is integral to the crank right? Once it wears down, I have to find both a new chainring and a new crankarm. Is this something I should consider and ride my other bikes more often, or does the steel chainring really last indefinitely compared to an alloy chainring?

Thanks!

Paul Cooley
Santa Fe

I wouldn't worry about it. You'll be replacing the chain more often than the chainring! The entire system is unlike a derailleur system because the chainline is always correct, and also the chain itself is beefier. So just the chain is going to last about 10x longer than it will on a bike with derailleurs, and the chainrings even longer. Keep the chain clean and lubricated and you'll be challenged to wear it out.

clubman 06-05-20 10:44 AM


Originally Posted by carfreefamily (Post 21516648)
I ride my 1952 Raleigh regularly. Right now we're probably covering about 300 miles a month.

Unfortunately, I'm a worrier, and I worry about wearing down the chainring. I know the old steel chainrings are more durable than alloy chainrings, but I seem to need to replace those on my other bikes every 5 - 10 years or so, as the teeth wear. Unless I missed something when I was working on the bike, the chainring is integral to the crank right? Once it wears down, I have to find both a new chainring and a new crankarm. Is this something I should consider and ride my other bikes more often, or does the steel chainring really last indefinitely compared to an alloy chainring?

Thanks!

Paul Cooley
Santa Fe

Don't worry, be happy. There's lot's of perfectly good cranksets out there if you need to replace one. I'm surprised that you would find it necessary to replace one in five years, even as a full time rider. The rear cog and chain should wear in about that time but the rings are tough. edit...salubrious got there first

fietsbob 06-05-20 10:49 AM

My Brompton is very British , it has a 3 speed hub.. ..

adventurepdx 06-05-20 01:20 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 21514518)
A New Raleigh Tourist
What's wrong with this bike?
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...38706d72e4.jpg
Aesthetically, I find this bike unattractive...

If a bike serves its purpose--it gets people from place to place--there's nothing "wrong" with this bike. It's all an argument over aesthetics.

It may not be the most attractive bike. But I don't think it's unattractive, either. I get that this is a classic and vintage sub-forum, and most folks on this thread wish that a modern bike company would just simply make a bike that looks exactly like an old Raleigh Sports. But let's be realistic: That ain't going to happen. And especially not from a major/mainstream maker like Raleigh. If you want a modern three speed that approximates ye olde Raleigh Sports, I'd go for a Linus or Public.

As for tires, I like wider, fatter tires. Much as I love 26" x 1 3/8", you are limited to a width of 35 to 40 mm. I prefer wider. I love 26" x 2.0" or slightly fatter. I'll be building up a fatter-tire three speed at some point.

I know some folks (esp. in C&V) recoil from disc brakes the same way vampires recoil from garlic, but they work. And they definitely work scads better than what's stock on your 1965 Raleigh Sports, especially if you want braking power when it's wet out. I realize you can modernize brakes on old three-speeds, and I have: aluminum rims, Kool Stop pads, Tektro 559s. They work well, but definitely not as good as a disc brake bike. Plus, I ever have to clean dirty rims on a disc brake bike. So I can see why a modern company would spec them.

In a perfect world, I'd love to see everyone riding on a mid-century British three speed. And I love seeing people discover these bikes and refurbish them. But I'm also pragmatic, and appreciate that modern makers would even make a bike like this. If people ride it and derive pleasure from the experience, all the better. Maybe they'll consider a vintage three speed next?

vintagebicycle 06-05-20 05:54 PM


Originally Posted by carfreefamily (Post 21516648)
I ride my 1952 Raleigh regularly. Right now we're probably covering about 300 miles a month.

Unfortunately, I'm a worrier, and I worry about wearing down the chainring. I know the old steel chainrings are more durable than alloy chainrings, but I seem to need to replace those on my other bikes every 5 - 10 years or so, as the teeth wear. Unless I missed something when I was working on the bike, the chainring is integral to the crank right? Once it wears down, I have to find both a new chainring and a new crankarm. Is this something I should consider and ride my other bikes more often, or does the steel chainring really last indefinitely compared to an alloy chainring?

Thanks!

Paul Cooley
Santa Fe

As far as how long the older English bike sprockets lasted... Back in the 1970's, as a kid, I had a newpaper route in a fairly rural area. It was a mix of dirt roads and oil and stone pavement mostly. I started around 1976 or so using an old JC Higgins balloon tire bike, while the bike was holding up okay, the thing wasn't stable with the front basket loaded and twin saddle baskets in the rear, and the frame was way too small for me. A farmer I delivered to gave me an old BSA, which had a 24" frame, which already had two huge rear saddle baskets and a giant front basket on it. The bike had a 3 speed BSA rear hub and stainless steel rims. I was leery about piling all that weight at first on a lightweight bike but it sooned proved more than capable. I took the huge basket off the old JC Higgins and attached it with a hinge atop the already installed rear rack and twin saddle baskets. I could load all 230 papers in one load on that bike. (I soon learned the value of thorn resistant tubes when it came to weight on that bike too). I used that bike to cover roughly about 18 miles every day for just over 6 years. Over that period, the bike had a few nasty spills, one that sticks in my memory was in the snow, I had one customer with a long paved, coated asphalt driveway about 600ft long, the driveway was pretty steep with a hard turn near the point where it met the road. I had three of the four baskets packed full, and was heading out of that driveway downhill when the front end skidded and the bike went down on the left side, the bike slid down the drive, sort of flat spinning down the hill, it hit the wood retaining wall front wheel first pretty hard. I remember being relieved that it hadn't spilled out the 150 or so papers that were still in the baskets. I slid a few feet on my backside and hopped up. I grabbed the bike, hoping no one saw it, and continued on my way. After the fall, for the rest of the route I didn't have a rear brake, it had bent the lever in a way it was stuck up and over the bar jammed in place, it also popped the cable end off. The front fender was all out of whack, the left rear arm of the fender stay was pulled off the screw so I just bent it outward to keep it out of the spokes.
I finished the route, went home and figured I'd better fix the problems so I had it ready for the next day. I fiddled with the fender stay and fender and got them back where they belonged, I took the brake lever apart and bent it back in shape, as well as changing the rear brake cable. I checked the front wheel, found a spoke had popped, so i pulled the wheel, found a good used spoke off a parts bike and put that back together. Everything worked, so I called it a day and went to bed. It wasn't for a few months that I realized that it didn't look right, and a closer look made me realize I had bent the frame, the top tube and down tube had buckled when it hit that wall. It didn't feel the same after that but it did the job. I kept using that bike for another 2 or three years after that finally retiring it after finding a crack in the rear rim between three spokes, and another around the bottom bracket lug where the down tube entered the lug. It barely made it home the last day I used it, the downtube had all but separated from the lug. I had used some bailing twine a farmer gave me to bind the whole thing together so I could finish that day. The bike was old when I got it, and likely had done the same thing years before. I never really figured how many miles that bike had on it but it was 'well worn' to say the least. Over the course of 6 years, the bike broke two handle bars, 7 cables, went through 11 tires, 20+ tubes, eventually lost the lower parts of both fenders to rust, and I rebuilt the bottom bracket twice after wearing through the cups twice.
The headset was an issue, which was likely due to the damaged frame. The bike hung in my dads garage for years, but was gone when I moved back here 6 years ago.
With all that bike went through, the sprockets were never an issue, I never recalled having a problem with the sprockets showing any real wear. I did break a few chain links and seem to remember the chain had several master links added to hold it together but when your in your teens, a new chain just wasn't in the budget. I did make enough money delivering papers to buy me a new Raleigh Super Course in 1977, which I still own, and a used 57 Plymouth sedan for $200 in 1979 which I drove for a few years in school before finding a deal on a super clean old VW Beetle. Knowing what I know now, I likely would have fixed that old BSA, I seem to remember the hub being dated 9-51. When I first got it, it had old black handgrips that would turn your hands black if you touched them. I think I tried everything to not have to buy new grips, I even painted them but when the handle bars broke one day, the grips were non removable and got replaced with some used grips off of a Raleigh Sprite a buddy had who had converted it to drop bars. The bike always seemed prone to rust, for the whole time I was using it I was constantly sanding and touching up rusty spots that blistered through the paint or polishing rust speckles off the chrome bits. The bike had a creaking sound as it rolled from the day I started using it that I never found, it could have been the frame flexing or maybe there was already a crack starting from day one, but considering it carried both a daily load of newpapers and my 240 or so lbs for all those years over rough roads, dirt and through several crashes, I had no complaints at all. The thing was built like a tank.

Johno59 06-06-20 01:13 AM

Oldspokes wrote:
"New tires also don't fit the same. I fought with a set of reproduction chain treaded tires on an old BF Goodrich bike the other day, it took me a hour to get them to finally pop up and fit right on the rim. The tire was just slightly smaller than the original around the bead, so much so that it didn't want to seat properly, and even after the first ride, the tire slipped back down off the bead area. I ended up having to sand the bead rubber a bit and lube up the bead area to get the tire to finally seat right. I never had a set of tires fight me like that before."
Some of the Asian tire manufactures use some of the more obscure British tire specs that don't make any sense at all and never did. Back in the day it was well understood that 26.5 and 26 1/2 were not remotely similar! There is in fact a 1/4 inch(6mm) difference. 24 inch was a good 4 inches away from 2 feet wide. BITD if you'd ask for a Junior size tire everyone had some of those, the fact that were actually 20 inches wide (520mm) was obvious to everyone with half a brain!. Even the venerable 26 1 3/8 has 4 mm differences - " oh you want 26 inch for British sprint rims, why didn't you say so in the bloody first place?" (there was a a 1/6 inch difference in diameter !) In China, Vietnam, Malaysia whatever they make 100 of millions of tires that to them are standard to what they reverse engineered 70 years ago. The 'Hero' bike throughout Asia that was the workhorse of the Ho Chi Minh trail in the 50s and 60s was a copy of the British Phillips that had 28 inch tires ( they weren't even 27 inches wide?!!) and you don't want to go into the lunacy of specs on any of those 28 and 27 inch tires. Ask for the ISO number. All manufacturers have the ISO number embossed on the tire wall (the diameter measured from bead to bead across the tire) and this measurement is as accurate to a millimetre or so.

W.L.SOON 06-06-20 07:06 AM

Nice Rudge,but.....
 
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1950-s-Ru...edirect=mobile


Hi.
The bike looks nice,but Endrick rims with rod-operated brakes(rubber blocks)? Potentially dangerous,I think. Has any one tried something like this before? 🤔

Cheers and take care.

W.L.SOON,Malaysia

BigChief 06-06-20 08:25 AM


Originally Posted by W.L.SOON (Post 21518141)
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1950-s-Ru...edirect=mobile


Hi.
The bike looks nice,but Endrick rims with rod-operated brakes(rubber blocks)? Potentially dangerous,I think. Has any one tried something like this before? 🤔

Cheers and take care.

W.L.SOON,Malaysia

Yikes. Rod brakes on Endrick rims seems like a very bad idea to me. I wouldn't consider it rideable. Seems like a lot of money for a repainted mid 50s Rudge with the wrong wheels, a Hercules crank and an incorrect 60s swept wing chainguard.

dirtman 06-06-20 11:26 PM

Another bike from the junkman, a smaller frame Robin Hood.
It had a GB stem and drop bars when I first got it, I pulled them off since they were loose.
I think this bike has the wheels that belong on the Raleigh Sports I posted about earlier here, and the Chrome fenders and Endrick wheels likely came from this bike.
There's more stuff but I didn't start to dig through it yet.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...bea08aa2c7.jpg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...603e4e263c.jpg

gster 06-07-20 07:14 AM


Originally Posted by dirtman (Post 21519616)
Another bike from the junkman, a smaller frame Robin Hood.
It had a GB stem and drop bars when I first got it, I pulled them off since they were loose.
I think this bike has the wheels that belong on the Raleigh Sports I posted about earlier here, and the Chrome fenders and Endrick wheels likely came from this bike.
There's more stuff but I didn't start to dig through it yet.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...bea08aa2c7.jpg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...603e4e263c.jpg

Christmas came early this year.

ironchefchris 06-07-20 02:28 PM

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5ba6e3d1da.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f608bd86e9.jpg
Just back from a quick 30min ride. Rode great. Its been in the garage for a year but thanks to this stupid virus ive been able to work and ride it alot lately. 1976 Raleigh Sports. I may have to invert the bars though...i rode drop bars for a longtime and it just suits me better, I figure that's a nice compromise.

dirtman 06-07-20 07:35 PM

Here's a few more from the lot I got last night, a 1974 Raleigh LTD III with a 24" frame, A 1966 Robin Hood Sports also 24", and an AMF Hercules from 1971.
These three are the best of the lot yet, the saddles are rough, but the rest of the bikes are basically functional with some air in the tires. They're extremely dirty from sitting in some garage for decades but they're not rusty. The Robin Hood has Lucas Odometer that reads 170 miles, and it works.
The LTD has Raleigh branded tires, the front reads Raleigh Record, the rear reads Raleigh but appears to be some type of slick, the tire is smooth with a slight raised center. The Hercules has Dunlop tires, the Robin Hood has two older Carlisle tires. The Robin Hood rides nice, the Hercules is great too but I really like the taller frames.
The LTD needs some adjustments, the brakes are rubbing, the fenders are loose, etc. It does shift and pedal just fine though. The Robin Hood is really nice riding bike. All three have perfect wheels.The Robin Hood's chainguard is a bit dented up but I can fix that.
There's at least one more Raleigh in the lot that I haven't taken pics of yet, an early 50's ladies model but its pretty rough and likely just a parts bike. Along with these bikes, the same guy also brought me 9 more barrels of parts they cleaned out of the same place.


https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...cce55c854d.jpg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...ea25d4f457.jpg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...ee3609ff41.jpg

Iron Horse 06-07-20 08:00 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 21514510)
I'd say that was a great deal!
Chrome fenders could be from a Canadian spec'd Glider or Supercycle.
Perhaps a Scorcher?


Originally Posted by ironchefchris (Post 21520490)
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5ba6e3d1da.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f608bd86e9.jpg
Just back from a quick 30min ride. Rode great. Its been in the garage for a year but thanks to this stupid virus ive been able to work and ride it alot lately. 1976 Raleigh Sports. I may have to invert the bars though...i rode drop bars for a longtime and it just suits me better, I figure that's a nice compromise.

I'm afraid I would be extremely leary of putting any weight on that rear rack. Your fender stay shifts, and there might be a mess.

56ford 06-07-20 08:04 PM

Saw this on my local Craigslist. It’s a Norman. No price but has the goodies on it and the paint looks pretty good. Any possibility it’s from the 50’s based on paint style. https://stlouis.craigslist.org/bik/d...122987524.html

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...666f993e4.jpeg

clubman 06-07-20 09:06 PM

@56ford. Late 50's, early 60's sure. Those spiral cable wraps were popular in the 50's. Chrome mudguards suggest closer to '60's. I'm sure the rear hub has a date on it to nail it down.

56ford 06-07-20 09:16 PM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 21521191)
@56ford. Late 50's, early 60's sure. Those spiral cable wraps were popular in the 50's. Chrome mudguards suggest closer to '60's. I'm sure the rear hub has a date on it to nail it down.

My 53 Hercules has the same wrappings and chrome fenders. I donít know if the fenders are original on mine but everything else seems to be, even the seat. Someone once suggested many bikes sent to the US had the chrome as an option.

clubman 06-08-20 06:52 AM

It's certainly possible that it's earlier. A Google image search of '1950s Hercules bike' reveal mostly painted fenders with chrome usually appearing toward 1960. The problem with Hercs is getting the year correct when when many had undated Hercules 3 speed hubs. No matter, nice bikes regardless of year.

56ford 06-08-20 07:37 AM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 21521563)
It's certainly possible that it's earlier. A Google image search of '1950s Hercules bike' reveal mostly painted fenders with chrome usually appearing toward 1960. The problem with Hercs is getting the year correct when when many had undated Hercules 3 speed hubs. No matter, nice bikes regardless of year.

I have two Hercules. The first one I got had a bunch of replacement parts on it with a Japanese replacement rear hub. With no special attributes to give me a year other than the badge saying Birmingham itís likely late 50ís. My Ď53 has a 1953 dated Hercules hub and has a what I have learned is a one year only paint scheme that was for the celebration of the coronation of Queen Elizabeth II. Of course a lot can happen to a bike over 60+ years.


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