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-   -   Addiction 2022.1 (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=1244501)

seedsbelize2 03-21-22 12:56 PM


Originally Posted by datlas (Post 22445888)
Hey Seeds! There is someone in "General" asking about road cycling in Yucatan! Can you go offer some help?

Tkd. Will do

bampilot06 03-21-22 01:05 PM


Originally Posted by Mojo31 (Post 22446001)
When I was in law school, I worked for a firm that handled insurance claims arising from general aviation crashes. The crashes virtually always resulted from a VFR pilot taking off and encountering IFR conditions. There was virtually always someone on the ground who described the plane coming down in a vertical death spiral. Cannot imagine that ride down.


its amazing how quickly you can get disoriented in the clouds when you are not proficient. Ask me how I know.

datlas 03-21-22 01:39 PM

One of my cycling buddies is a retired airline pilot and before that was a navy pilot. I could not do what he has done. He is now retired and has a good life, could not happen to a better guy.

bampilot06 03-21-22 01:52 PM

Oh, I left out rapid decompression. Pilots could have become hypoxic.

Mojo31 03-21-22 01:59 PM


Originally Posted by bampilot06 (Post 22446119)
Oh, I left out rapid decompression. Pilots could have become hypoxic.

That's what happened to Payne Stewart's plane years ago. But, the plane kept flying until it depleted its fuel due to being on auto-pilot. Wouldn't the 737 be on auto-pilot after takeoff, at least, until close to landing? If so, it seems it would have continued to fly off its fuel.

If you think about it, cabin decompression might be the best thing because then all the souls would go unconscious and would not experience the terror of the descent, wouldn't it?

phrantic09 03-21-22 02:06 PM

About to head out for a short ride- winds are out of the west at 22, gusting to 37. Should be a party

phrantic09 03-21-22 02:07 PM


Originally Posted by phrantic09 (Post 22446142)
About to head out for a short ride- winds are out of the west at 22, gusting to 37. Should be a party

Thereís a chance I say **** it and go for a run instead.

bampilot06 03-21-22 02:08 PM


Originally Posted by Mojo31 (Post 22446129)
That's what happened to Payne Stewart's plane years ago. But, the plane kept flying until it depleted its fuel due to being on auto-pilot. Wouldn't the 737 be on auto-pilot after takeoff, at least, until close to landing? If so, it seems it would have continued to fly off its fuel.

If you think about it, cabin decompression might be the best thing because then all the souls would go unconscious and would not experience the terror of the descent, wouldn't it?


typically when something goes wrong the autopilot is clicked off. Aircraft control is the most important thing, and when the alarms first sound you wonít know what the problem could be. They should have gotten a master warning light. Red light flashing at eye level as well as master caution. This would alert both pilots to then look up at the pressure control panel above the FOs head. Rapid decompression the very next thing is to put the mask on. If there was a delay or the problem was diagnosed wrong then yea they would have passed out and slumped on the controls.

The mask automatically drop in the back, so for the passengers that put the mask on then they would be awake for the ride. Again just speculating. Iím sure the news will have all kinds of ďexpertsĒ with even more ideas than me.

I mention this one, because from what I am reading the pilots were not communicating at all. In any emergency situation you always Aviate (fly the airplane) Navigate then communicate. It might have been the problem was so great they didnít have time to communicate.


Hope I am never in that situation.

bampilot06 03-21-22 02:09 PM


Originally Posted by phrantic09 (Post 22446144)
Thereís a chance I say **** it and go for a run instead.


Just ride east for 40 miles then make the call of shame.

phrantic09 03-21-22 02:10 PM


Originally Posted by bampilot06 (Post 22446148)
Just ride east for 40 miles then make the call of shame.

Oh Iím considering having my wife drop me off 25 miles west and see if I can make it home in an hour

bampilot06 03-21-22 02:17 PM


Originally Posted by phrantic09 (Post 22446151)
Oh Iím considering having my wife drop me off 25 miles west and see if I can make it home in an hour


you know if you do that the wind will shift and you will never make it.

genejockey 03-21-22 02:25 PM

Am I calculating this right? Falling 31,000 feet in one minute is basically flying downward at 350 mph. That sounds more like 'flying into the ground' than 'falling', but I'm a biologist not a pilot.

genejockey 03-21-22 02:26 PM


Originally Posted by bampilot06 (Post 22446160)
you know if you do that the wind will shift and you will never make it.

A couple times recently on my Sunday rides, I've experienced winds blowing from the Southeast while heading that direction, only to encounter winds blowing from the Northwest on the return. It seems monstrously unfair to me.

bampilot06 03-21-22 02:31 PM


Originally Posted by genejockey (Post 22446176)
A couple times recently on my Sunday rides, I've experienced winds blowing from the Southeast while heading that direction, only to encounter winds blowing from the Northwest on the return. It seems monstrously unfair to me.


Come to Va, story of my life.

Mojo31 03-21-22 02:33 PM


Originally Posted by bampilot06 (Post 22446184)
Come to Va, story of my life.

Same in Texas.

Mojo31 03-21-22 02:34 PM


Originally Posted by bampilot06 (Post 22446146)
typically when something goes wrong the autopilot is clicked off. Aircraft control is the most important thing, and when the alarms first sound you wonít know what the problem could be. They should have gotten a master warning light. Red light flashing at eye level as well as master caution. This would alert both pilots to then look up at the pressure control panel above the FOs head. Rapid decompression the very next thing is to put the mask on. If there was a delay or the problem was diagnosed wrong then yea they would have passed out and slumped on the controls.

The mask automatically drop in the back, so for the passengers that put the mask on then they would be awake for the ride. Again just speculating. Iím sure the news will have all kinds of ďexpertsĒ with even more ideas than me.

I mention this one, because from what I am reading the pilots were not communicating at all. In any emergency situation you always Aviate (fly the airplane) Navigate then communicate. It might have been the problem was so great they didnít have time to communicate.


Hope I am never in that situation.

Same.

phrantic09 03-21-22 02:53 PM


Originally Posted by bampilot06 (Post 22446160)
you know if you do that the wind will shift and you will never make it.

Itís gusting way too hard to ride. 36 gusts are enough to push me into a car.

genejockey 03-21-22 02:53 PM


Originally Posted by bampilot06 (Post 22446184)
Come to Va, story of my life.


Originally Posted by Mojo31 (Post 22446187)
Same in Texas.

What I call the Omnidirectional Headwind. Drains all the fun out of a ride.

Bah Humbug 03-21-22 03:13 PM


Originally Posted by seedsbelize2 (Post 22445721)
How does Lukoil Genesis 0-20 compare to Mobile 1 in the same grade? Or Castrol, for that matter?

Well one is part and parcel of crimes against humanity, and the other is Mobil1.

Editing: Read rest of thread, glad you landed on what you did.

Bah Humbug 03-21-22 03:17 PM


Originally Posted by bampilot06 (Post 22445963)
I have no idea what the MX standards of China are. I have no idea how often inspections are completed, if they even document issues. I know itís not the same as over here.

In that vein, am I off-base noting that, for the 737-MAX issue, the crashes were all third-/developing-world airlines and not US/ western Europe/ other developed nation airlines? Not to necessarily excuse Boeing, but the pattern of where those failures occurred made me wonder if it was a problem in all situations, or if it was only a problem with potentially lesser-trained pilots and lesser-maintained planes, or even lesser-specced planes as I recall might have been a thing.

big john 03-21-22 03:23 PM


Originally Posted by Bah Humbug (Post 22446237)
In that vein, am I off-base noting that, for the 737-MAX issue, the crashes were all third-/developing-world airlines and not US/ western Europe/ other developed nation airlines? Not to necessarily excuse Boeing, but the pattern of where those failures occurred made me wonder if it was a problem in all situations, or if it was only a problem with potentially lesser-trained pilots and lesser-maintained planes, or even lesser-specced planes as I recall might have been a thing.

I don't know about any of that, but this crash was not a MAX. Ignore me if you already knew that.

LAJ 03-21-22 03:27 PM

The crash in Colorado Springs was a nose in, but not from 30,000 feet.

Bah Humbug 03-21-22 03:28 PM


Originally Posted by big john (Post 22446248)
I don't know about any of that, but this crash was not a MAX. Ignore me if you already knew that.

I won't ignore you; I was aware and meant this as a separate question in a similar vein of the "multifactorial failures" which were never really addressed with those crashes, which puzzled me.

Mojo31 03-21-22 03:37 PM


Originally Posted by Bah Humbug (Post 22446237)
In that vein, am I off-base noting that, for the 737-MAX issue, the crashes were all third-/developing-world airlines and not US/ western Europe/ other developed nation airlines? Not to necessarily excuse Boeing, but the pattern of where those failures occurred made me wonder if it was a problem in all situations, or if it was only a problem with potentially lesser-trained pilots and lesser-maintained planes, or even lesser-specced planes as I recall might have been a thing.

I believe that Boeing admitted it was a design issue with the Max. There is a trial going on in Fort Worth against a Boeing test pilot who apparently covered it up knowing that it was not safe.

Boeing ex-pilot's trial starts on fraud charges over 737 Max - ABC News (go.com)

bampilot06 03-21-22 03:39 PM


Originally Posted by Bah Humbug (Post 22446237)
In that vein, am I off-base noting that, for the 737-MAX issue, the crashes were all third-/developing-world airlines and not US/ western Europe/ other developed nation airlines? Not to necessarily excuse Boeing, but the pattern of where those failures occurred made me wonder if it was a problem in all situations, or if it was only a problem with potentially lesser-trained pilots and lesser-maintained planes, or even lesser-specced planes as I recall might have been a thing.

When it comes to the max, the main issue was the system that caused both of those crashes, no one knew the system existed. I think for one of the crashes the airspeed sensor was blocked and caused the system to continue to fire. Basically with the Max, it has larger engines which causes a center of gravity issue. Boeing installed a trim system to keep the plane from stalling at slower airspeeds. Itís active during take off and landing. No one knew the system was on board or how it worked. So in the case with the airspeed being blocked on take off system started firing. With no airspeed data the system thought the plane was too slow and started aggressively pushing the nose down. I donít think the pilots had time to react.

I need to look at the details of the second crash. Unfortunately, I think in the first case the result would have been same over here. The crash happened like 10 seconds after the system was activated. Kicking the autopilot off wouldnít have mattered. You would still be fighting the plane all the way to the ground.

The system is fixed now. Itís redundant where before it was not and we are trained to deactivate it if need be.

The Max is a lot of fun to fly.

bampilot06 03-21-22 03:44 PM


Originally Posted by Bah Humbug (Post 22446255)
I won't ignore you; I was aware and meant this as a separate question in a similar vein of the "multifactorial failures" which were never really addressed with those crashes, which puzzled me.


It was addressed. All came down to software, and not being redundant. Every airplane has multiple pitot static systems. This is where the airplane gets data, airspeed, pressure altitude, temperature and so on. When the system was first implemented it was only tied to one pitot static system. If that system went offline then the MAX system didnít no what the airplane was doing. Itís now tied to all the pitot static systems as well as other safety nets. Plus now we know the system is there and how to counter it if need be.

big john 03-21-22 03:50 PM


Originally Posted by Bah Humbug (Post 22446255)
I won't ignore you; I was aware and meant this as a separate question in a similar vein of the "multifactorial failures" which were never really addressed with those crashes, which puzzled me.

I just read that John Travolta is now certified to fly a 737.

Bah Humbug 03-21-22 03:55 PM


Originally Posted by bampilot06 (Post 22446271)
The Max is a lot of fun to fly.

Thanks for the extra details; I knew about the sensor but wasn't clear if it was part of a larger thing that explained why it hadn't happened in developed countries, but I guess it was just random.

For the part I quoted though, I'm genuinely curious - what makes an airliner fun to fly? They're obviously not the sports cars of the sky that fighters or stunt planes are, so I would have thought that one would fly mostly like another, much like I'd imagine one tractor trailer would drive like another across brands. With larger engines on a narrow body, is the MAX like a muscle car of the genre?

The only one that I've found as genuinely much better is the Dreamliner; having been in business class helped of course but I genuinely think the greater pressurization made me a lot less miserable.

bampilot06 03-21-22 04:12 PM


Originally Posted by Bah Humbug (Post 22446287)
Thanks for the extra details; I knew about the sensor but wasn't clear if it was part of a larger thing that explained why it hadn't happened in developed countries, but I guess it was just random.

For the part I quoted though, I'm genuinely curious - what makes an airliner fun to fly? They're obviously not the sports cars of the sky that fighters or stunt planes are, so I would have thought that one would fly mostly like another, much like I'd imagine one tractor trailer would drive like another across brands. With larger engines on a narrow body, is the MAX like a muscle car of the genre?

The only one that I've found as genuinely much better is the Dreamliner; having been in business class helped of course but I genuinely think the greater pressurization made me a lot less miserable.


Mainly itís just new. I mean in my career every plane I have flown has been older than me. The MAX still has a new plane smell to it. The avionics are nicer. The controls feel stiffer, more responsive but that might be in my head.

The 737 in general is a pretty amazing plane. We can climb to 30,000 holding 300 indicated. Iím sure the other larger aircraft can do that too but the 145 most certainly could not.

bampilot06 03-21-22 04:15 PM


Originally Posted by big john (Post 22446280)
I just read that John Travolta is now certified to fly a 737.


All it takes is about 30 grandÖÖ.. You just have to rent the sim.

I mean you have to have your other ratings but any ATP pilot can get a type rating in anything if they want to pay for it.

We had a couple pilots at the regional who paid for an airbus type rating thinking it would help them get hired. I mean it might look good on resume I guess, but if you donít have any time in it, kind of useless.


I really want a B-25 type on my certificate. My uncle flew those in WW2 and I have always wanted to fly one once. The type would be more for the experience once I had it, I wouldnít be able to really use it.


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