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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

noglider 01-10-15 03:10 PM

[MENTION=336348]dweenk[/MENTION], I can't give you a reason not to buy the bike. I can give you one in favor. I bought a teal blue Robin Hood ladies 3-speed with the idea of flipping it. A neighbor's young adult daughter came over to look at it. She was about 24 years old and had just set out on her own. She had never before seen an old 3-speed. She swooned. I swear I saw her get weak in the knees. She bought it. I never heard back from her, but I'd like to think she has enjoyed the bike.

I sold the bike at a very small profit, because I felt like I was doing a good deed by giving a good price.

michael k 01-10-15 03:12 PM


Originally Posted by Number_6 (Post 17458687)
When you get home, go in and say "Honey I was thinking of you..."

Brilliant!! :D:D:D

Buy it! Quick!

dweenk 01-10-15 03:18 PM


Originally Posted by michael k (Post 17458800)
Brilliant!! :D:D:D

Buy it! Quick!

Offer was made.:)

michael k 01-10-15 03:21 PM


Originally Posted by Number_6 (Post 17455825)
Do keep us posted. I have a minivan for a company car with free gas- I've gone to the West Coast twice that way. I also get six weeks of vacation- the choice of weeks will be due sometime in March...

Minivan? Do stop by,The three speeds have taken over my garage

Number_6 01-10-15 03:25 PM


Originally Posted by dweenk (Post 17458786)
Oh no, what have you people done to me? :cry:

What they did to me, I think. In August all I had was a 2011 poverty model Sirrus. In September I bought a Catrike Expedition entirely of my own volition. That was it, I thought- then I went on vacation and was interested in steel bikes, looking on CL and checking out some Googled posts here. Since then I have acquired, in order:

1972 Schwinn Super Sport
1972 Schwinn 3-speed Speedster
1974 Schwinn 10-speed Suburban
2011 Motobecane Le Champion titanium
197? Raleigh Sports
1977 Raleigh Sprite 3-speed
2013 Felt Verza Regency
... and I bought a serviced '72 Schwinn Breeze for my nice for Christmas.

All of these I can ride and I will. It's nice to have bikes like your clothes closet- and there are many different types of rides in that bike closet as well. Other than the 20XX stuff, I've got maybe $350 all up. I like to wrench, so it's a cheap- and useful- hobby

I don't think I'm finished, either....

Number_6 01-10-15 03:28 PM


Originally Posted by michael k (Post 17458818)
Minivan? Do stop by,The three speeds have taken over my garage

I'll make a note of that. I've six vacation weeks now and and an old girlfriend in your quadrant of the nation. I should probably see her first, though...

adventurepdx 01-10-15 03:55 PM


Originally Posted by Number_6 (Post 17458838)
I'll make a note of that. I've six vacation weeks now and and an old girlfriend in your quadrant of the nation. I should probably see her first, though...

Well swing by michael K's house first to pick up a bike for your ex!

adventurepdx 01-10-15 04:08 PM


Originally Posted by michael k (Post 17458818)
Minivan? Do stop by,The three speeds have taken over my garage

Any for sale? Or free?

gster 01-10-15 04:13 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Question.
When did Raleigh stop using the pulley wheel on the 3 speed cable?
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=427741http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=427734

nlerner 01-10-15 06:02 PM

You mean when did they stop putting a braze on for the pulley wheel? My impression is that it was only the high-end IGH that had the braze on (my '52 Lenton Sports and '50 Lenton Tourist have one; I've had other Raleighs from that era that had the clamp-on wheel guide). Those higher-end IGH bikes seemed to be gone by 1957 or so when the Lenton came with derailleurs.

gster 01-10-15 06:07 PM

I just meant the pulley in general, clamp on.

wahoonc 01-10-15 06:31 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 17459199)
I just meant the pulley in general, clamp on.

I don't know if it ever did. They moved the pulley to the bottom of the seat tube in the late 70's. I can't recall ever seeing a full sized Raleigh 3 speed with a full length cable. It would cause issues with the shifting. The Twentys and RSW's used full length cable with a clamp on stop on the rear stay.

Aaron :)

desconhecido 01-10-15 07:48 PM

6 Attachment(s)
So, I scored two Raleigh three speeds from CL Houston today. The black ladies' model SA AW hub has a 1950 date code and a serial number suffixed AZ, which places it as a 1951 model. (thank you, Kurt Kaminer). From the catalog pages archived by Mr. Kaminer, it best matches the Sports Light Roadster from the 1948 catalog though the decals don't match up to anything I can find other than some notes in Sheldon's pages. The seat tube has "Raleigh" spelled out with horizontal letters from top down and something under that which is no longer recognizable. There is a "Made in England" decal on the upper down tube but nothing on the lower. The hockey stick chain guard says "Raleigh" in smaller than normal letters and nothing else. All this matches some of the notes on Sheldon's site.

Here she is:

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=427776http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=427777http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=427778http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=427779http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=427780http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=427781

Those are the pics I got before the battery went dead.

Has round and smooth plastic grips. Don't know if they are original. The handlebar has a nice bend in it. Isn't the same shape as the later North bars and seems to be of lighter gauge steel.

Probably needs new tires.

Looks like the saddle is as described in the catalog -- Brooks B66 with long slots in the leather.

The rear hub seems to be working, the front is super nasty when the axle is rotated, We'll see.

Had me going for a while is that the wheels have stainless spokes. But, the 1948 catalog pages list stainless steel spokes as being on the Sports Roadster so the are likely original. Wonders never cease.

Over all, it appears to be in pretty good shape with some rust freckles but not nearly as bad as the 79 that you can see in the background. The paint is pretty decent under the dirt.

The other is a 21" men's model in burgundy with a 1956 dated hub. Condition is comparable to the 51 and the decals/markings are typical Sports. Spokes appear to be normal galvanized.

Will post more pics if anyone is interested. Also, as restoration progresses, if anyone is interested.

Bandera 01-10-15 07:52 PM


Originally Posted by desconhecido (Post 17459432)
Will post more pics if anyone is interested. Also, as restoration progresses, if anyone is interested.

Please do.

-Bandera

gster 01-10-15 09:16 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Thanks.
Perhaps I'm looking at Canadian built CCM 3 speeds that don't have a pulley. They have a full length cable with a stop on the rear stay.
I'll have a look at my 1976 Tourist. My Canadian built Superbe (1976) has no pulley either.
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=427789

markk900 01-10-15 09:27 PM

My early 70's Glider built by Raleigh had the chain stay cable stop and no pulley as well.

Velocivixen 01-10-15 10:41 PM

[MENTION=336348]dweenk[/MENTION] - Well? Did you get it? Is it home? Inquiring minds want to know!
[MENTION=13919]des[/MENTION]conhesido - Yes, start a thread where you can recount your efforts at clean up & rehab of your new beauties. Nice.

BluesDaddy 01-11-15 12:42 AM

Question: Suppose I don't want to use an adjustable wrench on my old Raleighs any more. It doesn't seem very craftsman-like. (pun intended) If I were to buy some open- or box-end wrenches, what sizes would I need?

Velocivixen 01-11-15 12:55 AM


Originally Posted by BluesDaddy (Post 17459932)
Question: Suppose I don't want to use an adjustable wrench on my old Raleighs any more. It doesn't seem very craftsman-like. (pun intended) If I were to buy some open- or box-end wrenches, what sizes would I need?

I'm not sure of the exact sizes, but I had assumed my 1955 Phillips 3 speed used metric. Wrong. Do Raleighs of that era use metric?

wahoonc 01-11-15 05:27 AM


Originally Posted by BluesDaddy (Post 17459932)
Question: Suppose I don't want to use an adjustable wrench on my old Raleighs any more. It doesn't seem very craftsman-like. (pun intended) If I were to buy some open- or box-end wrenches, what sizes would I need?


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 17459937)
I'm not sure of the exact sizes, but I had assumed my 1955 Phillips 3 speed used metric. Wrong. Do Raleighs of that era use metric?

Whitworth...

Aaron :)

JBC353 01-11-15 08:02 AM

Yep, Whitworth. I got along using whatever metric or SAE fit best but broke down and bought a Whitworth set when the third English 3-speed arrived. You really only need a few of the smaller sizes.

nlerner 01-11-15 08:41 AM


Originally Posted by BluesDaddy (Post 17459932)
Question: Suppose I don't want to use an adjustable wrench on my old Raleighs any more. It doesn't seem very craftsman-like. (pun intended) If I were to buy some open- or box-end wrenches, what sizes would I need?

You need one of these:

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-o...%257E60_57.JPG

sykerocker 01-11-15 09:01 AM


Originally Posted by JBC353 (Post 17460203)
Yep, Whitworth. I got along using whatever metric or SAE fit best but broke down and bought a Whitworth set when the third English 3-speed arrived. You really only need a few of the smaller sizes.

I was lucky. Before I got back into restoring 3-speeds, I'd gone through twelve years of vintage Triumph and BSA ownership. I not only had Whitworth, I spoke Whitworth fluently.

noglider 01-11-15 09:19 AM

It was just a matter of time, [MENTION=355580]Velocivixen[/MENTION], before you discovered that you're dealing with neither metric nor English. It's frustrating. One of the sizes will fit 8mm, the fender bolts. Or maybe it's 9mm. The stem expander bolt, though, is between 11mm and 12mm, and nothing will fit. And Whitworth wrenches are expensive. I don't own any.

desconhecido 01-11-15 09:38 AM

12 Attachment(s)
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=427830http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=427831http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=427832http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=427833http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=427834http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=427835http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=427836http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=427837http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=427838http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=427839http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=427840http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=427841OK, here's a couple more pictures of the 1951 Raleigh which I feel confidant, based on the 1948 catalog pages, is a pretty much original Model 22L Sports Light Roadster.

Oiler on the AW hub is different from what I've seen before and I've never seen a mention of this type. Spring loaded ball in the manner of the BB oiler. Interesting curiosity, I guess.

The saddle is in amazing shape for a 63 year old bike, if it's the original. I can't see how it wouldn't be from what little I know about the history of the bike.

I guess these are the "soldered" brake cables. We'll have to see how that works out.

You can see the horizontal letters that make up the vertical Raleigh logo on the seat tube. Underneath, all horizontal, you can see an AL and around to the left, another L at the end. So, this probably was the "All Steel" label.

"Made in England" on the upper down tube.

3 or 4 speed shifter with window. Indicator in window says either H, N, or L.

Nice Heron on the fork, "thimble" chrome appears flawless, lower headset looks good. Nub on fender fron is not bad. There's some sort of decal on the fender behind the nub but I can't make it out.

Still needs a new front tire. These things are major hard.

Raleigh on the chain guard, which covers the back of the chain as well as the front. Original pedals are pretty good indicating that it was probably not ridden heavily or frequently. Chrome on the cranks and chain wheel (Herons have eyes and are looking CW) is very good.

Wiped some of the grease and dirt from the rear rim. As I said before, SS spokes. The rims are really quite nice and, from what I can see, not corroded. I had anticipated a CR18 transplant, but my wife really likes the look of these rims so they might stay. Particularly if they are pretty true. I'm not too good at truing up old steel wheels with galvanized spokes, but with the SS spokes, I might just replace the nipples and see what happens. Or not, haven't really looked at the nipples much yet.

Reflector and white tail not too bad. Wish the fender logo were better, but what can you do?.

Black pump has Raleigh Industries logo in gold.

In general, the Raleigh branding is a lot more subtle than on later bikes. Doesn't say "Sports" anywhere, but there's no other bike in the catalogs that matches this one but the 22L Sports Light Roadster. No "R" nuts, that came later. Has old style shouldered front hub nuts.

It's very interesting to me to compare the differences between this bike, the 1956 "gents" that came with it (pictures to follow) and the 1979 that I already had. The quality of materials and workmanship and attention to detail are far superior on the older bikes. Herons with eyes on the 51 where as the 1979 Herons are blind. The chrome on the 51 appears thicker and plated better.

Have to run.

dweenk 01-11-15 10:19 AM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 17459810)
@dweenk - Well? Did you get it? Is it home? Inquiring minds want to know!
@desconhesido - Yes, start a thread where you can recount your efforts at clean up & rehab of your new beauties. Nice.

The owner has agreed to sell the bike at the price that I offered, so now it is a matter of arranging to pick it up. I'm committed to a family gathering today and the bike is an hour away, so it will probably be Monday or Tuesday before I can get it.

auchencrow 01-11-15 11:03 AM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 17460347)
It was just a matter of time, [MENTION=355580]Velocivixen[/MENTION], before you discovered that you're dealing with neither metric nor English. It's frustrating. One of the sizes will fit 8mm, the fender bolts. Or maybe it's 9mm. The stem expander bolt, though, is between 11mm and 12mm, and nothing will fit. And Whitworth wrenches are expensive. I don't own any.

Yes you do!

https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=...HRVIeL.jpg&f=1

Number_6 01-11-15 11:11 AM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 17460275)

Yes, I learned all about Whitworth back in high school drafting class. The teacher said, "Nobody really uses this any more, but I have to cover it" He did ride some. I guess he rode a Schwinn.

And I do have this tool! I am very fortunate. When I got the Raleighs back in November, the PO had kept the the original ownership sleeve with the owner's/ maintenance manual, assembly sheet, this tool and another tool. I can't figure out what the other tool is for, however. It's thin and is a sort of elongated shape the resembles a french curve (to me). What is it used for, folks? How many tools did you get with a Raleigh anyway?

michael k 01-11-15 12:15 PM


Originally Posted by desconhecido (Post 17460383)
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=427830http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=427831http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=427832http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=427833http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=427834http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=427835http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=427836http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=427837http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=427838http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=427839http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=427840http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=427841OK, here's a couple more pictures of the 1951 Raleigh which I feel confidant, based on the 1948 catalog pages, is a pretty much original Model 22L Sports Light Roadster..

Desconhecido, Here is my 52' Sport as found and far as I can tell is oringinal.With Galvanized spokes and has remnants of the original hand grips and saddle.The grips match the ones Nlerner posted in post #5777 .

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/c...psb31a262f.jpg

Truly amazing how well they clean up....

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/c...raleigh014.jpg

BluesDaddy 01-11-15 01:09 PM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 17460275)

Thanks for all the info folks! What is that called, Neal?


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