Bike Forums

Bike Forums (https://www.bikeforums.net/forum.php)
-   Classic & Vintage (https://www.bikeforums.net/forumdisplay.php?f=181)
-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

rustystrings61 05-29-19 11:42 AM

[QUOTE=. I imagine 23" models are few and far between though. I got lucky enough finding an early model 23" Superbe I suppose.[/QUOTE]

I am busy smacking my forehead right now - I glanced over at FB and lo, in their marketplace up popped what appears to have been an early '50s 23-in Raleigh Lenton Sports up near Rock Hill for $100. I contacted the seller, to learn it hadn't sold, but had been donated to Habitat up there. So I called Habitat, but no, it's already gone. Dang it.

The photo from the ad, and yeah, saw that chainwheel set -

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...db7d1f1442.jpg

gster 05-29-19 04:30 PM


Originally Posted by 88Tempo (Post 20952342)
@BigChief

Yes those are exactly what I'm talking about. Unfortunately at 6'2" I'm rather unlikely to come across one in my area that also fits.

Not to mention budget wise I couldn't do a restoration justice.

Do a saved search on Kijiji and Craig's List and you'll get a notice if something comes up.
I've found several bikes that way.

BigChief 05-29-19 05:43 PM


Originally Posted by 88Tempo (Post 20952342)
@BigChief

Yes those are exactly what I'm talking about. Unfortunately at 6'2" I'm rather unlikely to come across one in my area that also fits.

Not to mention budget wise I couldn't do a restoration justice.

There is another option. A daydream of mine that unfortunately isn't practical for me since my old body can't take much time on drop bars anymore. I'd start with a Raleigh Super Course frameset. Find a suitable crank, vintage trigger shifter, Sturmey Archer S5 hub and mudguards that looked as much like vintage Bluemels as possible. I'd strip and repaint the frame in a more vintage style with vintage style transfers. I bet I could even get used to toe straps again although it's been a while. I don't see this happening at this point. I'll just stick to my roadsters.

88Tempo 05-29-19 05:54 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 20953195)
Do a saved search on Kijiji and Craig's List and you'll get a notice if something comes up.
I've found several bikes that way.

That's a good idea, honestly I didn't even know that was possible.

88Tempo 05-29-19 05:58 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20953293)
There is another option. A daydream of mine that unfortunately isn't practical for me since my old body can't take much time on drop bars anymore. I'd start with a Raleigh Super Course frameset. Find a suitable crank, vintage trigger shifter, Sturmey Archer S5 hub and mudguards that looked as much like vintage Bluemels as possible. I'd strip and repaint the frame in a more vintage style with vintage style transfers. I bet I could even get used to toe straps again although it's been a while. I don't see this happening at this point. I'll just stick to my roadsters.

That's what I was kind of figuring on doing. I doubt if I would use a Super Course as that is one of the higher end models isn't it? I'd be happy with an old Rampar frame or similar.

BigChief 05-29-19 07:17 PM


Originally Posted by 88Tempo (Post 20953307)
That's what I was kind of figuring on doing. I doubt if I would use a Super Course as that is one of the higher end models isn't it? I'd be happy with an old Rampar frame or similar.

The Super Course was a medium priced model. The important factor is that it has a Reynolds 531 tube frame like the original club bikes. What you're talking about is what we call a scorcher. That is stripping down a regular light roadster like a Sports. I made this one from a 21" 1955 Rudge Sports. I need upright bars, so this has a tall Sunlite touring stem and long seat post so it fits me. It has alloy rims, alloy shell AW hub,a light weight seat, alloy ESGE kickstand, rat trap pedals, Tektro brakes and no mudguards or chainguard. It's pretty sporty. I put a lot of miles on this one. There is a misconception that these frames are "gas pipe" but they are not the same mild steel as the cheapo department store bikes or even electro welded Schwinns. Those are 1010 steel. The Raleigh Sports frames are more like 1018 or 1020, but still not as hard or light as the more exotic alloys like 531. Still, you can have plenty of fun on a scorcher!

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b1583359a6.jpg

clubman 05-29-19 07:29 PM


Originally Posted by 88Tempo (Post 20952342)
@BigChief

Yes those are exactly what I'm talking about. Unfortunately at 6'2" I'm rather unlikely to come across one in my area that also fits.

Not to mention budget wise I couldn't do a restoration justice.

Just to add a bit to the club thing. There were hundreds of excellent builders in post War Britain making these bikes to even higher standards than the big guys and many were built in custom large or small sizes. Have a look at the classic Rendezvous reference page for Britain to get a few more names to add to your list.

At 6"2', you might be a bit large for this New Hudson, currently for sale here. It's a nice example in great original conditions for not a small fortune.

browngw 05-29-19 09:13 PM


Originally Posted by 88Tempo (Post 20953307)
That's what I was kind of figuring on doing. I doubt if I would use a Super Course as that is one of the higher end models isn't it? I'd be happy with an old Rampar frame or similar.

You might get lucky and find an original seventies (71) drop bar 23" Robin Hood Sports like I did. I waited years for it to come along! It is one of my favorite riders. Shown five years ago and recently.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...81f681b2b3.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...ed4d6d9a80.jpg

88Tempo 05-29-19 09:29 PM

@clubman
Thanks for the link, I bookmarked it for future reading. That Hudson is nice the and the owner looks close to my size so I could probably make a 23" work
too.
@browngw
That would be a nice find. You have a really nice looking bike there.

BigChief 05-30-19 04:00 AM


Originally Posted by 88Tempo (Post 20953580)
@clubman
Thanks for the link, I bookmarked it for future reading. That Hudson is nice the and the owner looks close to my size so I could probably make a 23" work
too.
@browngw
That would be a nice find. You have a really nice looking bike there.

I think a 23" frame would work for you. I'm 6'1" 33" inseam and there's plenty of adjustment left in the seat post of my 23" roadsters. That sure is a pretty Robin Hood. It wouldn't be hard to convert a roadster to drop bars. Any 22.2 stem will fit the fork tube.

gster 05-30-19 04:45 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20953751)
I think a 23" frame would work for you. I'm 6'1" 33" inseam and there's plenty of adjustment left in the seat post of my 23" roadsters. That sure is a pretty Robin Hood. It wouldn't be hard to convert a roadster to drop bars. Any 22.2 stem will fit the fork tube.

BC and myself (and others) are big fans of the Scorchers (inverted bars) and Semi Scorchers (upright bars).
here's my Robin Hood.
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...78aa1c4c43.jpg
This cost less than $200.00 to put together.
Plus a Glider below.
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...876b5a733d.jpg
This started as a $20.00 frame and built up from the parts bin.
In both cases, the leather saddles are the most expensive items.
So we're not talking about a lot of money.

88Tempo 05-30-19 07:15 AM

I had a 21" Rudge for a little while. It was fun to ride although quite small for me. It is the bike that got me interested in a scorcher or clubman. I haven't seen another one since then.

I have a few bikes I'm interested in getting this would just be one. An aluminum Schwinn is the highest priority.

paulb_in_bkln 05-30-19 09:21 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20953293)
There is another option. A daydream of mine that unfortunately isn't practical for me since my old body can't take much time on drop bars anymore. I'd start with a Raleigh Super Course frameset. Find a suitable crank, vintage trigger shifter, Sturmey Archer S5 hub and mudguards that looked as much like vintage Bluemels as possible. I'd strip and repaint the frame in a more vintage style with vintage style transfers. I bet I could even get used to toe straps again although it's been a while. I don't see this happening at this point. I'll just stick to my roadsters.

I think about this, too. I'm close to having my old ('83) Trek 600 repaired and repainted. Almost certainly I'll keep it as derailleur bike. But the frame would be perfect for what you've described.

Salubrious 05-30-19 10:31 AM

I wore the Michelin 650A tires out on my main rider. While I'm waiting for a new set of tires I've been riding some of my other 3-speed rides; yesterday was the '61 Sports (which might be the only year with the inverted, but otherwise 1960s shifter), today is the 51 Humber Sports. One thing that I've really noticed as a result is the older bikes have a springier, more nimble and more charming character. The Humber is really nice handling; much more enjoyable than the '72 Superbe. So it seems that that if you really want to experience what the 3-speed thing is all about, you'll get a much better feel for it if you avoid the later machines. I'm not saying that the later ones can't be fun, but the earlier machines have a better feel, obviously more care in frame construction, and apparently more care in the shifters and hubs. Just sayin'

88Tempo 05-30-19 10:43 AM

My first experience with a Sturmey Archer 3 speed was the Rudge I mentioned. I was pleasantly surprised how well a either 1951 or 1954 ( I can't remember) bike worked.

The priority for parts and stuff right now is my Tempo and then the Nashbar Road LP. With a limited budget for bike stuff I absolutely have to have some priorities.

BigChief 05-30-19 07:10 PM


Originally Posted by 88Tempo (Post 20954269)
My first experience with a Sturmey Archer 3 speed was the Rudge I mentioned. I was pleasantly surprised how well a either 1951 or 1954 ( I can't remember) bike worked.

The priority for parts and stuff right now is my Tempo and then the Nashbar Road LP. With a limited budget for bike stuff I absolutely have to have some priorities.

Well, I hope you join our ranks again someday. It could be anything from a classic club machine, a big 28" wheeled rod brake roadster, an early or late model light roadster and even a Twenty folder. They all fit in here. And...they don't break the bank.

88Tempo 05-30-19 07:28 PM

@BigChief
If the right bike comes along at the right price I'll grab it. Speaking of which the Super Course you mentioned earlier. A Super Record just popped up in the Colorado Springs Cragslist? It looks like a mid to late 70's to me and in my size. $130 is the asking price. How do they compare to the Super Course?

clubman 05-31-19 09:03 AM


Originally Posted by 88Tempo (Post 20955107)
[MENTION=398265]
How do they compare to the Super Course?

Poorly, imo. Hi ten tubes, less chrome, different geometry. I've never liked the ride, at least in the 54 cm size.

paulb_in_bkln 06-01-19 06:54 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20953293)
There is another option. A daydream of mine that unfortunately isn't practical for me since my old body can't take much time on drop bars anymore. I'd start with a Raleigh Super Course frameset. Find a suitable crank, vintage trigger shifter, Sturmey Archer S5 hub and mudguards that looked as much like vintage Bluemels as possible. I'd strip and repaint the frame in a more vintage style with vintage style transfers. I bet I could even get used to toe straps again although it's been a while. I don't see this happening at this point. I'll just stick to my roadsters.

Following up the daydreaming theme, I noticed that if I'm willing to forego the Reynolds 531, it's not difficult or even that expensive to find a 70s or 80s Trek/Miyata/Fuji/Nishiki etc. road frame made with excellent, but not prestigious, Japanese DB tubing from Ishiwata or Tange. Project-wise I have a full plate right now and I'm still enjoying the novelty of the Peugeot mixte conversion, but for the future I might like using one of these for an FW or S5 based bicycle.

BigChief 06-01-19 08:20 AM


Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln (Post 20957124)
Following up the daydreaming theme, I noticed that if I'm willing to forego the Reynolds 531, it's not difficult or even that expensive to find a 70s or 80s Trek/Miyata/Fuji/Nishiki etc. road frame made with excellent, but not prestigious, Japanese DB tubing from Ishiwata or Tange. Project-wise I have a full plate right now and I'm still enjoying the novelty of the Peugeot mixte conversion, but for the future I might like using one of these for an FW or S5 based bicycle.

I have this nifty NOS 36H 1985 S5.2 hub just begging for some hot rod project. This one doesn't use a bell crank for the left side. Pull chains on both sides. No idea how well it works.

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f44b8b2736.jpg

paulb_in_bkln 06-01-19 08:58 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20957209)
I have this nifty NOS 36H 1985 S5.2 hub just begging for some hot rod project. This one doesn't use a bell crank for the left side. Pull chains on both sides. No idea how well it works.

You are set! I'll be keeping my eyes open for one of those, or an FW, at a good price. Too bad our local twice-yearly bike jumble offers nothing, but nothing, for IGH users.

gster 06-01-19 11:38 AM

This is Progress?
I'm cleaning/tuning a mountain bike for a friend of mine.
Not a piece of junk but somewhat ok.
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...bf55ff1933.jpg
1984(?) Renegade.
Look at the handle bar array.
There's absolutely no room to adjust anything as all the space is taken up
by the 2 massive shifters and brake levers....
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4e5b4021f9.jpg
Compare to the simplicity of a standard 3 speed array.
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d1ae42db0e.jpg

paulb_in_bkln 06-01-19 09:38 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 20957402)
This is Progress?
I'm cleaning/tuning a mountain bike for a friend of mine.
Not a piece of junk but somewhat ok.

1984(?) Renegade.
Look at the handle bar array.
There's absolutely no room to adjust anything as all the space is taken up
by the 2 massive shifters and brake levers....

Compare to the simplicity of a standard 3 speed array.

It came that way? This must have been the very early days of twist shifters. Next to one of those you use a grip that's a shorty, about 85mm. Allows everything to fit. Although those shifters are very deep, so maybe a grip even shorter than that. The setup in the photo is a headscratcher, to me.

gster 06-02-19 05:24 AM


Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln (Post 20957988)
It came that way? This must have been the very early days of twist shifters. Next to one of those you use a grip that's a shorty, about 85mm. Allows everything to fit. Although those shifters are very deep, so maybe a grip even shorter than that. The setup in the photo is a headscratcher, to me.

It did have short gel grips that were all sticky as well as those
bull horn extensions that I removed.
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b1020da1f1.png

paulb_in_bkln 06-02-19 07:45 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 20958132)
It did have short gel grips that were all sticky as well as those
bull horn extensions that I removed.

Somewhere online I read an article about the decline and demise of Sturmey Archer (the original UK company). It was written by someone who's a career wrench and bike shop owner, and he thinks it was predominantly Grip Shift, appearing right around the time of this bike--early 80s--that so weakened the demand for IGH bikes that TA or whoever owned SA at the time finally sold off the business.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:50 PM.


Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.