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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

thumpism 07-30-20 02:05 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 21615445)
There's a bike down the street from me that hasn't moved in a year. I'm going to offer the
owner $30.00. I just want the wheels and some other parts.

It all begins so innocently, then the owner shows you the contents of the shed that have been accumulating for decades and consist of dozens of quaint and lovely old bikes. For the love of God, man, don't do it!!!

gster 07-30-20 02:18 PM


Originally Posted by thumpism (Post 21615577)
It all begins so innocently, then the owner shows you the contents of the shed that have been accumulating for decades and consist of dozens of quaint and lovely old bikes. For the love of God, man, don't do it!!!

The voice of reason...
I'm the guy with the shed...

thumpism 07-30-20 05:29 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 21615603)
I'm the guy with the shed...

So, the truth comes out.

Skyler, you're worried about the shed.
https://www.denofgeek.com/wp-content...size=636%2C432
I'm the guy with the shed.

gster 07-30-20 06:59 PM


Originally Posted by thumpism (Post 21615937)
So, the truth comes out.

Skyler, you're worried about the shed.
https://www.denofgeek.com/wp-content...size=636%2C432
I'm the guy with the shed.

Thx.

ddeand 07-30-20 08:26 PM

Was riding the other day with the missus when the front tire on my 1963 Raleigh Sports bit the dust. I’m guessing the tire was at least 40 years old, so I can’t complain. I had a couple cheap Kendas set aside for replacement, but only one worked - the other had a built in bulge that rendered it unrideable. I was able to use one Kenda and one of the old tires to get the bike rolling again, but I need some new, decent tires. I won’t do Kendas again. So do any of you have a recommendation for a decent 26 x 1 3/8 - 590 gumwall tire? I don’t need top-of-the-line stuff - just good solid tires? Suggestions appreciated!

JaccoW 07-31-20 02:17 AM


Originally Posted by ddeand (Post 21616218)
Was riding the other day with the missus when the front tire on my 1963 Raleigh Sports bit the dust. I’m guessing the tire was at least 40 years old, so I can’t complain. I had a couple cheap Kendas set aside for replacement, but only one worked - the other had a built in bulge that rendered it unrideable. I was able to use one Kenda and one of the old tires to get the bike rolling again, but I need some new, decent tires. I won’t do Kendas again. So do any of you have a recommendation for a decent 26 x 1 3/8 - 590 gumwall tire? I don’t need top-of-the-line stuff - just good solid tires? Suggestions appreciated!

Not many options left, apparently Grand Bois makes a nice skinwall.
Schwalbe make the Road Cruiser in a whitewall variety for 650A.

nlerner 07-31-20 04:27 AM

Sunlite makes tires in that size that I put on a bike I sold fairly recently. Not sure they’re an improvement over the Kendas, but they have the gum wall look.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...251a361ac.jpeg

threespeedmafia 07-31-20 03:57 PM

I guess I'm in the minority then. I have not had an issue with my Kenda gumwalls. But I know some people will not go near them. In fact, I have some on my 66 Sports and I have some Schwalbe Delta Cream/Creme Cruisers on a 70s Sports, and I believe the Kendas ride smoother and lighter.

clubman 07-31-20 06:47 PM


Originally Posted by threespeedmafia (Post 21617512)
I guess I'm in the minority then. I have not had an issue with my Kenda gumwalls. But I know some people will not go near them. In fact, I have some on my 66 Sports and I have some Schwalbe Delta Cream/Creme Cruisers on a 70s Sports, and I believe the Kendas ride smoother and lighter.

Lighter, yes. Kenda made a range of tires over the years and some were ghastly. Maybe new ones are good? Report back.

ddeand 07-31-20 07:24 PM

As far as tires go, I ordered a pair of these. I hope they work, but if they don’t, then that gives me an excuse to build up another bike around them.

https://northwestbicycle.com/product...x1-1-4-j591021

adventurepdx 08-01-20 01:34 AM


Originally Posted by JaccoW (Post 21616418)
Not many options left, apparently Grand Bois makes a nice skinwall.
.

Yeah, if you can find it and are willing to pay $70 a tire. Plus, the ones I have seen are narrower than your standard 26" x 1 3/8" offerings--32mm vs the normal 35 to 37mm.
I used them for a bit, but decided to stick with Delta Cruisers and Col de la Vies. (I've sold them, so don't ask.)

barnfind 08-01-20 09:26 PM

My go to tire lately is the Michelin World Tour, but in black wall. Its one of the only tires I've seen that's still true to size. I've used the Kenda or Sunlite tires in the past but didn't like how narrow they were compared to other brands, to little rim protection and a hard ride. When it comes to buying tires lately, its pretty much online only, as local shops don't keep many tires and most haven't had 26x1 3/8" tires in ages. They want $25 each to order a cheap Kenda tire, for that much I'd rather have the wider Michelin.
I learned a long time ago that if I was to play with this size bike, I need to keep a few sets on hand myself, so when I buy tires I generally buy a case of them because lately there's always one or two of these here getting rebuilt or restored to some degree. On occasion I get guys who want white walls, I used to keep them but the call for them is too few and far between. Besides,other than Michelin, the white wall options are pretty low end.
I also do all I can to keep original tires on my bikes, but with the last Raleigh Record or Dunlop tires being over 35 years old now, that's getting pretty hard to do.
I still have one of two either original or at least period correct tires on a few bikes, including one Schwinn with a set of mid-50's chain tread Uniroyals that have survived the years so far. None of those are my go to bikes for daily riding though. My daily riders all have MIchelin World Tour black sidewall tires.

barnfind 08-02-20 02:32 AM

This may sound like a dumb question, but how many different handlebar types did Raleigh use on the Sports and various models of three speeds?

The reason I ask is that I came across a huge stash of chrome steel bars, some of which are likely Raleigh, some maybe other brands, most are unmarked. There's a good number of what I know as North Road type bars, then there's a few with flatter, more rounded bend, and a few that are similar to the North Road bars but with the ends pulled back farther, almost, but not quite parallel.
Those marked Schwinn and Wald are easy to ID, but most have no markings at all. A few are obviously also French due to the diameter of the clamp area.
Along with the bars, I found a box of TALL Raleigh stems, they look just like what you would find on a common Sports model but these are 12 and 14" long overall. There's another, without Sir Raleigh on it, that's 16".
This lot was a quick, smaller pile of bike parts, but it was combined with a other unrelated items as well. Most of this lot was Schwinn and Columbia, but there's a few Royal Enfield bikes, a pile of odd parts likely for those bikes, and another box of literature. (I removed four full four drawer file cabinets that I've not yet gone through other than to pull out a few folders here and there).
There's also a ton of road bike parts, but mostly Schwinn, Peugeot, and Columbia.
The Royal Enfield stuff is later, likely late 70's and early 80's. The shop was in a two story four car garage in the guy's back yard and it had closed up in 1983. I haven't found the name of the shop. The family did ask that I not pass on any info that contained any personal information. Apparently it was the wife of a couple living there who recently sold the place and moved. I was contacted by the real estate company to empty the buildings at the request of the buyer.
It was roughly one 24ft trailer load, mostly small parts but getting the 200+ handlebars sort of offsets the three big lots I got before which had none. It wasn't a big score English parts wise but bike parts are really just a bonus, I still get paid to remove the contents.

BigChief 08-02-20 12:38 PM

I'm only familiar with English bikes, mostly Raleigh. They have 15/16" diameter bars while most other bikes seem to be 1 inch. I only know this because anytime I wanted to use a modern stem for a custom length or offset, I've had to shim the Raleigh bars to fit.

adventurepdx 08-02-20 12:42 PM


Originally Posted by barnfind (Post 21619311)
My go to tire lately is the Michelin World Tour, but in black wall. Its one of the only tires I've seen that's still true to size.

Are you in the US? If so, where do you get yours? I recently tried to source those tires, but the only sellers I could find were overseas.

arty dave 08-02-20 04:51 PM


Originally Posted by barnfind (Post 21619311)
My go to tire lately is the Michelin World Tour, but in black wall. Its one of the only tires I've seen that's still true to size. I've used the Kenda or Sunlite tires in the past but didn't like how narrow they were compared to other brands, to little rim protection and a hard ride. When it comes to buying tires lately, its pretty much online only, as local shops don't keep many tires and most haven't had 26x1 3/8" tires in ages. They want $25 each to order a cheap Kenda tire, for that much I'd rather have the wider Michelin.
I learned a long time ago that if I was to play with this size bike, I need to keep a few sets on hand myself, so when I buy tires I generally buy a case of them because lately there's always one or two of these here getting rebuilt or restored to some degree. On occasion I get guys who want white walls, I used to keep them but the call for them is too few and far between. Besides,other than Michelin, the white wall options are pretty low end.
I also do all I can to keep original tires on my bikes, but with the last Raleigh Record or Dunlop tires being over 35 years old now, that's getting pretty hard to do.
I still have one of two either original or at least period correct tires on a few bikes, including one Schwinn with a set of mid-50's chain tread Uniroyals that have survived the years so far. None of those are my go to bikes for daily riding though. My daily riders all have MIchelin World Tour black sidewall tires.

I like the Michelin world tour too, they have a nice retro tread pattern, but they seem to have disappeared in 27 x 1 1/4" (they were a bit wider which I liked a lot - probably more like 1 3/8"). Apart from 26 x 1 3/8" they're still out there in 700C, and also have whitewalls and gumwalls in this size.

barnfind 08-02-20 07:03 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 21620013)
I'm only familiar with English bikes, mostly Raleigh. They have 15/16" diameter bars while most other bikes seem to be 1 inch. I only know this because anytime I wanted to use a modern stem for a custom length or offset, I've had to shim the Raleigh bars to fit.

Measuring just the upright style bars:

24.5 - Several of these bars are marked " U018" These are straighter bars with very little bend back but with about 3" of rise and no knurling in the center.

25.1mm - Most 'North Road style bars (A few measure 25.4mm)

25.3mm Most of the bars with the flatter profile and rounder curves, (a few are 25.8mm but have less than a 2" rise)

25.4mm, these are all marked Wald 8095, or 872 in the center (There are also some Wald 862 bars but they turn in almost parallel on the ends)

These are just a few I picked out of the pile today, I've got a full pickup bed full of steel bars to sort through. I started to pull out North Road type or similar bars aside and ended up filling the truck bed and a few buckets as well, plus I was separating all the new bars and putting them boxes in the back of the cab.
There's also a good number of drop type road bars but most are aluminum, and many still have their stems and levers attached so they took up a ton of room in the trailer. I filled two 4x4x4ft bins with just road bars in the front of the trailer, with a few MTB bars mixed in here and there too. I haven't even touched the road bike bars yet but there's also quite a few new bars in that lot as well. I also got quite a few new Pyramid branded bars that appear to be just rebranded Wald 872 bars and several boxes of SR Champion bars. My problem right now is that this lot has blocked in a lot of the last couple lots since it was last minute, by using the huge crates, it means they have to be loaded and unloaded by hand one by one. I can't run a solid tire forklift into an enclosed car trailer and dragging out metal bottomed oak bins with a chain isn't an option unless I want to tear up the plywood floor of the trailer. Normally I'd have screwed down a couple of lengths of C channel for the crates to slide on but we didn't have the time and the trailer I usually use is still loaded from before. So far I've only spotted a handful of bars which match the OEM bars on my Raleigh Sports. It seems the factory Raleigh bars are a good bit shorter than most others. (The same for Robin Hood, Hercules, etc.)

In the pic below:
(Wald and Schwinn branded bars not pictured,Wald bars are most similar to #4 but with a 25.4 center and Wald in the center and slightly less bend inward at the grips)
  • Bar #1 has a small GB stamp in a small, 1/4" circle near the one end that would be covered by the grip. These appear to be the same bars as on some Sprite 27 models.
  • Bar #2 is marked in marker U018, which I'm assuming means they came from a Peugeot Mixte these bars are thicker the whole length, so much so that its impossible to get them to slide through a Raleigh stem without opening up the clamp beyond what would likely do damage. The only stem I've been able to fit over these is an early AVA alloy stem with a wide forward facing opening.
  • Bar #3 is slightly wider than the rest with a more sweeping bend and less rise
  • Bar #4 has he same bends as an the original bars on my Raleigh Sports but is 1" longer on each end.
  • Bar #5 has slightly less forward bend, but puts the grips in the same position. Also about 1" longer than a stock Raleigh bar. Is also some grade of stainless in that its almost completely non-magnetic.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...ec0c6034bc.jpg

barnfind 08-02-20 08:04 PM


Originally Posted by arty dave (Post 21620454)
I like the Michelin world tour too, they have a nice retro tread pattern, but they seem to have disappeared in 27 x 1 1/4" (they were a bit wider which I liked a lot - probably more like 1 3/8"). Apart from 26 x 1 3/8" they're still out there in 700C, and also have whitewalls and gumwalls in this size.

I get them from a guy who used to have a shop years ago, he still tinkers a bit in his retirement and can still get parts, although he doesn't sell to the public anymore.
The 35-590 size has been $25 each for a while now, in black sidewall only, but he doesn't keep a ton of them in stock. He can get whitewalls but I've never had a use for them here. He's not had any 27" tires in a while but he ordered me some IRC branded 27x1 1/8" skin walls a few weeks ago that looked like the one's I used to buy in the early 80's. I've not seen that tire listed anywhere online.
Every so often he gets a buddy of his to list a few things on CL in South Jersey or Philadelphia but the guy don't ship. Occasionally he lists a few pair of Michelin tires. They apparently sell pretty fast, the ads are rarely up for very long.

I've been trying to get him to get me some Schwinn 26x1 3/8" S5-S6 tires in both whitewall and in black but he's not made an order with that supplier in a while, or they've been sold out with this latest bike boom. His supply must be local, he usually has things for me in a day or two,or three at the most.
I do know the larger US bike parts suppliers don't list the Michelin tires in 26x1 3/8" anymore, and when they did they only listed the gum wall version but those were dropped from the catalogs over the past few years.

Here's the last pair I picked up for a project I'm working on:


https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...705ab61f69.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a44993245c.jpg

dimini 08-02-20 10:59 PM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 21617719)
Lighter, yes. Kenda made a range of tires over the years and some were ghastly. Maybe new ones are good? Report back.

I just bought a pair of gum wall Kenda’s for my Raleigh Superbe in June, 2020 and they are fine. Side note: I ordered a pair on EBay, but the seller shipped me black walls accidentally, and did not want me to return them... So, I have a new pair of un-mounted Kenda black wall tires that I’d be happy to give to a good home for price of shipping. It’s the same tire, except all black.

dirtman 08-03-20 12:13 AM


Originally Posted by dimini (Post 21620960)
I just bought a pair of gum wall Kenda’s for my Raleigh Superbe in June, 2020 and they are fine. Side note: I ordered a pair on EBay, but the seller shipped me black walls accidentally, and did not want me to return them... So, I have a new pair of un-mounted Kenda black wall tires that I’d be happy to give to a good home for price of shipping. It’s the same tire, except all black.

Ive been looking for a set of black tires with no luck locally for a Raleigh Sports I've been working on here. I just got done cleaning up the rims and rebuilding the hubs.
Next is to see if I can save the paint or if I'll be doing a full repaint with new decals.
PM me if these are still available.

vintagebicycle 08-03-20 07:45 AM


Originally Posted by arty dave (Post 21620454)
I like the Michelin world tour too, they have a nice retro tread pattern, but they seem to have disappeared in 27 x 1 1/4" (they were a bit wider which I liked a lot - probably more like 1 3/8"). Apart from 26 x 1 3/8" they're still out there in 700C, and also have whitewalls and gumwalls in this size.

It looks to me like Michelin may have replaced the World Tour with the Protek in 27x1 1/4", the World Tour disappeared from the catalogs last year in 27".
I have a sneaky suspicion that they're going to go away in the 26x1 3/8" size soon as well.

Something that's always puzzled me is how the selection of tires overseas is so much better than here in the United States.
I can understand the 590 size being more common in the UK, but considering how many bikes were built with this size, and looking at how many posts this thread alone has generated over the years, the ISO 590 size is far from dead. The same with ISO 630 or 27x1 through 1 3/8" tire sizes. Its a size that I'm told is still common in Asia and the US, its just the tire selection that's dwindling here in the states. I think part of the problem is that shipping costs now exceed the tire cost and many smaller countries don't have the imeans to manufacture or export tires in large enough numbers.

Road Fan 08-03-20 01:03 PM


Originally Posted by barnfind (Post 21608988)
In digging through some of the parts and bikes from one of the recent clean outs I did I came across what had originally been sorted into the Raleigh Sports lot of bikes.
After looking closer I realized its marked Sprite on the downtube. What got it put in the 26" bike trailer was the fact that its got 1 3/8" wide tires, Dunlop rims, north road bars and an SA trigger shifter, and the fenders are not like most Sprite 27 fenders in that they're ridged and peaked like those on a Sports model.
The bike is complete minus the rear wheel, and the front wheel is likely not fixable either. The front tire is a Raleigh Record 27 x 1 3/8" black wall with twin reflective white stripes on the sides. The tread is the common block tread found on the Sports model.
The cranks are single speed Raleigh Heron style as on a Sports model, the headset and BB is the same as a Sports, its got a tubular crown fork, and is dark brown in color.
Chances are the bike won't go back together due to a dented down tube, it looks like the caliper came around and dented the dt pretty bad. The saddle is a Brooks mattress style. The frame has two brazed on pump pegs on the downtube as well, just like a sports.
I looked through all the old catalogs I've got and it likely has to be a 1971-72 model, it doesn't have an Anniversary headbadge, so 1970 is ruled out.
The decals on the frame are identical to a 1971 Sports I've got, but the paint is a darker brown than what was used on the Sports model.
The bike is half buried in the trailer right now, but I'll try and get it out for pics later this week.
My question is, did they build an internal geared hub Sprite in 27" or is this someone's creation from back in the day?
I've never seen this tire in 27" before, and I've never seen a Sprite 27 with ridged fenders like a Sports. I also found a red woman's model that other than the Dunlop wheels and 27x1 3/8" tires and AW hub, looks like a common Sprite 27 with flat top fenders. It too though has North Road style bars not the typical semi straight riser bars they usually come with.
That bike has bent frame, but two good wheels and a hub dated 1972. Both bikes have self adjusting brake levers.
The rear frame of both bikes measures 110mm, but that could well have been respaced.
I had always sort of looked at the Sprite 27 as basically a Grand Prix with upright bars but this is different, the lugs are like those of a Sports, not one of the lesser road bikes, the lugs are those long, square cut lugs you see on a Sports model. The frame is also heavier than that of a 70's Grand Prix of the same size. A GP also didn't have a tubular crown fork nor did it have the more extreme rake to the front end these two have. The rims are also spoked 40/32, I don't think any of the road bikes were built with anything but 36h rims? (Even if I were to try to fix this Sprite, I'd likely have a hard time finding new 27" rims to build in 40/32, I'd likely have to find another hub and use a more common 36h rim).
Something that I'm finding is that some of these bikes may have been sold overseas originally, the ladies Sprite had a receipt for a 'rattle in headset' repair from a bike shop in Brighton, East Sussex dated 1977. How it got here I have no idea. Another ladies Sports model had several packages of brake shoes in a saddle bag with price tags marked in £ not $. I suppose there's a chance a few of these are models or variations we never saw here in the states.

I'm not sure if you are a builder or a parter-outer, but I'm looking for a set of Raleigh headset cups (top and bottom), a threaded top race, and a crown race for the crazy Raleighs that had 26 thread per inch fork threading. If there's an otherwise trashed bike with a fork that turns decently, I'd be interested in the headset parts.

cszipper 08-03-20 03:14 PM


Originally Posted by thumpism (Post 21612780)
Trifecta! Looks taller than your "usual" 23" men's frame, 700C wheels and drum brakes.

61cm Mens Union Viking 3spd Bike For Sale - $325 (Mechanicsville)

bicycle frame material: steel
bicycle type: road
frame size: 61cm
wheel size: 700C
I have a 61cm mens Union Viking 3spd bike for sale. This bike has front and rear drum brakes, 3spd Sturmy Archer internal hub and shifter. This bike has steel frame, 700c wheel, 3pc crank. This bike has been serviced and detailed and is ready to ride. If interested please contact me.

I've got the same model bike (ca. 1986), and it's a nice ride. The upright riding position is comfortable, and visibility is superb. When I pull up at an intersection, I am sitting head and shoulders above the folks alongside me in their car. The wheels are a built like tanks, having stainless steel rims, with heavy gauge spokes on the rear. Mine, unlike the pictured example, also has stainless fenders. Weak links are the plastic chaincase, which is not very durable, and the bottom bracket, which is some oddball press-fit sealed bearing set-up. Rear wheel removal got easier and shifting got crisper after I got rid of the cheap steel shift cable anchorage that slipped over the rear axle and installed the standard Sturmey unhoused shift cable and pulley. Otherwise I haven't changed anything from stock.

-Carl

BigChief 08-04-20 07:06 PM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 21616459)
Sunlite makes tires in that size that I put on a bike I sold fairly recently. Not sure they’re an improvement over the Kendas, but they have the gum wall look.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...251a361ac.jpeg

I didn't know you had this one. Nice Rudge. Good year too. 53 or 54? I like these. Still the early style frame but lighter 20-30 tubing.

nlerner 08-04-20 07:23 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 21624251)
I didn't know you had this one. Nice Rudge. Good year too. 53 or 54? I like these. Still the early style frame but lighter 20-30 tubing.

It came to me with a Schwinn S-6 rear wheel with a ‘54 AW rear hub and what I imagine was the original front wheel (shown above) with a dynohub dated ‘54. I rebuilt that rear hub into an EA3 rim. Oddly enough, a biking buddy of mine sold this one in a yard sale, and I then bought it on CL for about $5 more than what my friend sold it for. It came with a very nice Made in England inflator, which I sold to someone in the UK.


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