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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

BGBeck 02-09-15 02:28 PM


Originally Posted by michaelz28 (Post 17539321)
i thought i was looking at my bike [IMG]http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/h...psawfft7kv.jpg[/IMG]

You've got much better paint than mine, MichaelZ. :D

crank_addict 02-09-15 02:38 PM

What do some of you use for water jug / bottle on an older 3 speed?

I'm working slowly on a Raleigh DL1 project with the goal of having Lauterwasser type bar and retain rod linkage brakes. I'd like to keep a bit of character and maybe somehow have a bar mounted bottle cage. Although, not keen on mounting a universal Minoura and common bottle cage.

I picked up one of these Mason drinking jugs in stainless but to my knowledge, no cage exist for the diameter.
http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/021...g?v=1410470523

desconhecido 02-09-15 02:46 PM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 17540865)
The pedals on my 72 Raleigh were servicable- I simply removed the end caps and set them up. I've not seen a set that I would consider non-serviceable. Not saying they are not out there, but I've yet to see them.

Here are the pedals from a 74 Sprite.
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=433312
They are identical to the pedals that were on my 79 Sports when I got it. Posts through the rubbers are peened.
They are labeled as made in Germany and carry the Raleigh logo on the end cap and on the rubbers. You can actually make eyeball contact with the inside ball bearings on these pedals so you could coax some oil into them, if desired. Still like to see the dirty grease ooze out and be replaced by clean, though. The bearings in the pedals on the Schwinn are much more isolated which makes them less liable to contamination, but harder to coax lube into.

Interesting that the real old Raleigh pedals, with the double quills from the 50s, have a lube hole in the end caps already.

Salubrious 02-09-15 03:23 PM

^^ The attachment does not seem to work.

desconhecido 02-09-15 03:35 PM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 17541148)
^^ The attachment does not seem to work.

Ok, try again.
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=433323
For some reason, bike forums kicks me off occasionally and funny things happen. Perhaps I am being sent a hint.

Salubrious 02-09-15 03:38 PM

Dang! That's nothing like the pedals I have from only a couple of years earlier!

desconhecido 02-09-15 04:41 PM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 17541180)
Dang! That's nothing like the pedals I have from only a couple of years earlier!

throughout the 70s (and probably 60s as well), it seems that Raleigh made a bunch of changes virtually all designed to cut costs. Changing from the metal cable roller to plastic, changing the "fulcrum" thing from metal to plastic, not applying the white to the rear fender, changing the chain ring from the five segment with eyed Heron to a three segment with blind Heron. All to save just a little. Going to a vinyl covered mattress saddle and using cheaper pedals probably saved a considerable amount but also indicated an obvious diminution of quality. I'll bet even the change from steel Raleigh brakes to the alloy Weinmanns saved money. I think some changes were less obvious but saved money, too. I don't think the manufacturing standards and material standards maintained their level. That's what it seems like to me. Imo, the earlier stuff appeared to have more durable chrome, less likely to corrode into freckles or to flake off. I've commented before on how the steel rims of the 50s seemed to be manufactured with care while the rims that were on my 79 Sports appeared to have been welded up by drunk teenagers untrained in the use of grinders.

I still love the Nottingham Raleigh bikes from the 70s -- I love mine and my wife loves her 74 Sprite with the self-adjusting brake levers. I'm just saying that the 70s Nottingham bikes were not as well made as were the earlier ones. The pedals are a good example. Another example: when I serviced the headset in the Sprite, the crown race fell off the fork when i turned it over. It's supposed to be a tight pressed fit. There was red paint (the color of the bike) under the race that hadn't been cleaned off during frame prep. I guess it was ok for the paint to be there, though, it didn't keep the race from being set, being as big as it is.

noglider 02-09-15 04:57 PM

@desconhecido, it's definitely true that quality sloped downward for a long time. I also love the Raleighs from the bad old days, despite everything.

desconhecido 02-09-15 05:23 PM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 17541377)
@desconhecido, it's definitely true that quality sloped downward for a long time. I also love the Raleighs from the bad old days, despite everything.

My wife went out today on the 51 Sports (aka Black Widow) and rolled up some miles riding with the next door neighbor on the Schwinn Breeze three speed (72, I think) that we gave her for Christmas. Everybody seems to really love these things. My wife, who never operated a three speed before, not even as a kid, is having a ball. She never really liked derailleur gear bikes and friction shifting and finds the three speed to be like indexed -- only better. I built up a new steel framed Ciocc at the end of last year and have been riding that most during the day, but when the weather's warm at night and I can't sleep, I get out the 79 Sports and roll up some miles between midnight and 3 to 4 am or so. It has shiny CR18s and a Brooks B17, and that sucker rolls. I love it. I think I'm going to put the Atom pedals with the Binda toe straps back on it.

edit:
And for anybody interested in such details, my wife, who has problems with racing style saddles, is riding a Brooks B67S which is a tad shorter and wider than the B66 and has pronounced it to be very comfortable.

Velocivixen 02-09-15 07:47 PM

@desconhecido - I'm like your wife, in that I never rode a 3 speed, and really like the clean look and that if I forgot to down shift at a stop sign, I can shift on the spot. I'm already trying to figure out to make other bikes into a vintage SA 3-speed.

PedalTraveler 02-09-15 08:03 PM

FREE BIKE!!! As you can see I have no place to store it. If you can pick this up in the metro Detroit area it's all yours, if I recall it's a 1954 Norman. The previous owner took off the headbadge :mad: and its got a cotterless crankset. Its got new tires. PM me if you want it. Only rule is if you sell it you donate any profit to a worthy cause. If no one here claims it, its off to a local co-op.

http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/...ps88791baf.jpg

desconhecido 02-09-15 08:07 PM


Originally Posted by PedalTraveler (Post 17541883)
FREE BIKE!!! As you can see I have no place to store it. If you can pick this up in the metro Detroit area it's all yours, if I recall it's a 1954 Norman. The previous owner took off the headbadge :mad: and its got a cotterless crankset. Its got new tires. PM me if you want it. Only rule is if you sell it you donate any profit to a worthy cause. If no one here claims it, its off to a local co-op.

http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/...ps88791baf.jpg

That's a fine offer and if I were within 100 miles, I'd suck it up.

You need to get it a sweater before it freezes to death.

desconhecido 02-09-15 08:18 PM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 17541832)
@desconhecido - I'm like your wife, in that I never rode a 3 speed, and really like the clean look and that if I forgot to down shift at a stop sign, I can shift on the spot. I'm already trying to figure out to make other bikes into a vintage SA 3-speed.

Over the last couple years, I've ridden the Sports more than all my other bikes combined. I got into the habit of back pedaling and down shifting whenever I use the brake. It became such a habit that when I started riding a derailleur bike again late last year that I kept back pedaling and downshifting as I approached stop signs. Doesn't work so well.

In Houston the only hills are in parking garages so the three speed bikes work really well. My wife likes to get hers into third and pump hard while I ride faster and almost never get into third. I'm not sure if we have the same sprockets or not. I'll have to check.

Another Sports came to me in the same deal as the Black Widow but it has some frame issues that I'm not sure I can resolve. I'm thinking of turning it into a 700C bike. I think I found some 40 hole CR18s and some 32 hole CR18s in the same black finish without the machined side wall so I might do it, but I have to see if I can get the frame straight first. It's a seat stay thing so it might straighten out -- easier than if it were fork or top/bottom tube which I don't think I would try to fix. But, the frame as it is isn't worth much, if anything, and the parts I can scavange are worth more to me than what I have into it so, no great risk.

michaelz28 02-09-15 08:22 PM


Originally Posted by desconhecido (Post 17541347)
throughout the 70s (and probably 60s as well), it seems that Raleigh made a bunch of changes virtually all designed to cut costs. Changing from the metal cable roller to plastic, changing the "fulcrum" thing from metal to plastic, not applying the white to the rear fender, changing the chain ring from the five segment with eyed Heron to a three segment with blind Heron. All to save just a little. Going to a vinyl covered mattress saddle and using cheaper pedals probably saved a considerable amount but also indicated an obvious diminution of quality. I'll bet even the change from steel Raleigh brakes to the alloy Weinmanns saved money. I think some changes were less obvious but saved money, too. I don't think the manufacturing standards and material standards maintained their level. That's what it seems like to me. Imo, the earlier stuff appeared to have more durable chrome, less likely to corrode into freckles or to flake off. I've commented before on how the steel rims of the 50s seemed to be manufactured with care while the rims that were on my 79 Sports appeared to have been welded up by drunk teenagers untrained in the use of grinders.

I still love the Nottingham Raleigh bikes from the 70s -- I love mine and my wife loves her 74 Sprite with the self-adjusting brake levers. I'm just saying that the 70s Nottingham bikes were not as well made as were the earlier ones. The pedals are a good example. Another example: when I serviced the headset in the Sprite, the crown race fell off the fork when i turned it over. It's supposed to be a tight pressed fit. There was red paint (the color of the bike) under the race that hadn't been cleaned off during frame prep. I guess it was ok for the paint to be there, though, it didn't keep the race from being set, being as big as it is.

they still had the white tail in 74 . http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/h...pswmyprrox.jpg

desconhecido 02-09-15 08:31 PM


Originally Posted by michaelz28 (Post 17541948)
they still had the white tail in 74 .

I think they stopped the white tail about the same time that they went to the "coffin" style rear reflector which, as I understand it, they did because of US CPSC rules. My 79 has a one color rear fender and the Dracula's coffin style reflector. According to the info on the Sports timeline on the 'The Headbadge': Classic & Vintage Bicycle Resources & Appraisals, those changes happened about 77 to 78, though, as we know, Raleigh didn't do everything (maybe anything) in a "timely" manner.

edit:

I tried to buy a crapped out Sports from a local aspiring flipper to use for parts and the hub and serial number show it to be a 78 yet it still had the white tail and round reflector. This guy has been trying to sell the bike for $75 for about three months. I figure the hubs and maybe the Weinmann brakes are salvageable but the frame has been poorly re-brazed, there is rust up and under all the lug brazing, and all the chrome is probably beyond repair, except for the grease protected hubs. I think the sheet metal might be salvageable, but it's doubtful. He came down to $40, but I don't think it has $40 worth of useable parts.

michaelz28 02-09-15 09:15 PM


Originally Posted by desconhecido (Post 17541969)
I think they stopped the white tail about the same time that they went to the "coffin" style rear reflector which, as I understand it, they did because of US CPSC rules. My 79 has a one color rear fender and the Dracula's coffin style reflector. According to the info on the Sports timeline on the 'The Headbadge': Classic & Vintage Bicycle Resources & Appraisals, those changes happened about 77 to 78, though, as we know, Raleigh didn't do everything (maybe anything) in a "timely" manner.

edit:

I tried to buy a crapped out Sports from a local aspiring flipper to use for parts and the hub and serial number show it to be a 78 yet it still had the white tail and round reflector. This guy has been trying to sell the bike for $75 for about three months. I figure the hubs and maybe the Weinmann brakes are salvageable but the frame has been poorly re-brazed, there is rust up and under all the lug brazing, and all the chrome is probably beyond repair, except for the grease protected hubs. I think the sheet metal might be salvageable, but it's doubtful. He came down to $40, but I don't think it has $40 worth of useable parts.

thanks for all the info on these bikes . i am keeping this bike for sure and don't know much about them . I'm trying to learn and appreciate the info . if i ride it and someone asks me about it at least i can sound fairly well educated . i would imagine you don't see something like this every day in Hopewell jct NY . There are a few well maintained fairly level bike trails around my home so i want to put some miles on this thing ( no one else did ) ..

michaelz28 02-09-15 09:22 PM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 17541832)
@desconhecido - I'm like your wife, in that I never rode a 3 speed, and really like the clean look and that if I forgot to down shift at a stop sign, I can shift on the spot. I'm already trying to figure out to make other bikes into a vintage SA 3-speed.

my 69 schwinn stingray stik/shift has a SA hub ( and a giant chrome shifter ) . they used these on everything .

Velocivixen 02-09-15 09:39 PM


Originally Posted by michaelz28 (Post 17536909)
thanks , i checked out their web site and there is a good selection . i got my eye on one . anyone ever hear of originals coming up on ebay or craigs list ?

Hi, I bought a great condition Carradice seat roll I think they called it on my local CL. It's tubular shaped, black with white leather straps. It looks small, but I was surprised at all the stuff I could fit inside. I have a new Careadice Barley and it's seriously big for most of my needs. Only if I'm carrying lunch, a jacket, binoculars, etc. do I use it. So keep your eyes on CL & you might see one come up.

Did your kickstand arrive yet?

Question: I replaced my indicator pin and noticed on the old one where the last link attaches to the pin itself, the link is rigid and does not pivot around. The link on the new pin pivots around its rivet. I felt like there was an almost imperceptible difficulty shifting from Normal to high - like something was slightly hung up or something. I replaced the clutch spring which was firmer & taller than the old one. Since High gear places the clutch in its relaxed position I thought maybe the clutch spring wasn't pushing it down easily. Replacing the spring didn't change anything.

So, now with the new indicator pin I notice an improvement. When I shift Normal to High nothing feels "hung up". Goody. So.....all of you, with old indicator pins, go remove them and tell me if the last link is stiff or freely moves about its rivet onto the indicator pin.

I know. I'm bossy.:lol: Seriously though I'm very curious about this.

michaelz28 02-09-15 10:31 PM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 17542137)
Hi, I bought a great condition Carradice seat roll I think they called it on my local CL. It's tubular shaped, black with white leather straps. It looks small, but I was surprised at all the stuff I could fit inside. I have a new Careadice Barley and it's seriously big for most of my needs. Only if I'm carrying lunch, a jacket, binoculars, etc. do I use it. So keep your eyes on CL & you might see one come up.

Did your kickstand arrive yet?

Question: I replaced my indicator pin and noticed on the old one where the last link attaches to the pin itself, the link is rigid and does not pivot around. The link on the new pin pivots around its rivet. I felt like there was an almost imperceptible difficulty shifting from Normal to high - like something was slightly hung up or something. I replaced the clutch spring which was firmer & taller than the old one. Since High gear places the clutch in its relaxed position I thought maybe the clutch spring wasn't pushing it down easily. Replacing the spring didn't change anything.

So, now with the new indicator pin I notice an improvement. When I shift Normal to High nothing feels "hung up". Goody. So.....all of you, with old indicator pins, go remove them and tell me if the last link is stiff or freely moves about its rivet onto the indicator pin.

I know. I'm bossy.:lol: Seriously though I'm very curious about this.

Hey , the " cadet " is the one im looking at . the rolls look nice though , some of the other ones are big . about the stand , no i called the usps and it was delivered to them on the third from the seller . after that ?? when it gets here the picts will follow . i love to post picts .. it was a paypal deal and ill get the money but i want the stand. i found a neat rubber tip for 10 bucks for it . check your chain . if they are slightly bent they will bind on the axle nut .it has to lay on one side or the other as it passes the axle nut to the cable .i found that the cable will be loose in high gear and that should be good .

Velocivixen 02-09-15 10:57 PM

@michaelz28 - yeah I had the chain aligned correctly, and when cleaning up the bike cleaned it (I have an ultrasonic cleaner for everything) & lubricated it. Anyway the new one works great! I read back several pages trying to find where you first told about how you found your bike. What page?

michaelz28 02-09-15 11:00 PM

here is the OG for 74 ..http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/h...ps2qquvtp8.jpg

michaelz28 02-09-15 11:21 PM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 17542272)
@michaelz28 - yeah I had the chain aligned correctly, and when cleaning up the bike cleaned it (I have an ultrasonic cleaner for everything) & lubricated it. Anyway the new one works great! I read back several pages trying to find where you first told about how you found your bike. What page?

i switch from schwinn to raleigh at page 226 ...

desconhecido 02-10-15 12:00 AM


Originally Posted by michaelz28 (Post 17542218)
Hey , the " cadet " is the one im looking at . [...]

The Barley that we have is a pretty big seat bag and it's 280mm X 150 X 150 and they claim it as a 9 liter bag. The Cadet is wider and bigger: 350 mm X 210 X 200 and claimed to be 13 liter. I don't know who their photographer is, but I have to have him take a picture of my butt.

I'm considering the "Small Canvas Saddle Bag" by Banjo Brothers, whoever they are. Not the Sleepy Man Banjo Boys (check them out on youtube). That is claimed to be 9.5" X 6" X 6" and 4 liters. Must be the new math.

Or, maybe the Banjo Brothers barrel roll which is a bit narrower at 8" and 4.25" round. Even 8" X4.25 round is not a small bag. Probably fit Stella in there.

I bought the Barley a number of years ago and used it when my sister and I did the RAGBRAI Iowa ride and it was nice to have the space for a change of clothes, several days worth of food and water, and a 1000 piece craftsman tool set, but just for doodling around town, all that is needed is a rema patch and a quarter for the telephone and a AAA card.

The more I think about it, the Banjo Barrel is probably just about the right size.

desconhecido 02-10-15 12:05 AM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 17542272)
@michaelz28 - yeah I had the chain aligned correctly, and when cleaning up the bike cleaned it (I have an ultrasonic cleaner for everything) & lubricated it. Anyway the new one works great![...]

I'm thinking about how the indicator chain threads in and how it can be overtightened by using the outside portion as a lever. If someone were to over tighten the chain, I think the torque would tend to deform that last chain link where it connects to the rod that threads into the hub. Sometime over the years, I bet, somebody thought the best thing for the chain was to get it threaded in good and tight. I can see how I could do that.

Velocivixen 02-10-15 12:50 AM


Originally Posted by desconhecido (Post 17542370)
I'm thinking about how the indicator chain threads in and how it can be overtightened by using the outside portion as a lever. If someone were to over tighten the chain, I think the torque would tend to deform that last chain link where it connects to the rod that threads into the hub. Sometime over the years, I bet, somebody thought the best thing for the chain was to get it threaded in good and tight. I can see how I could do that.

Oh yeah, I see what you mean. Well I know I didn't over tighten because I read up about how to take care of these hubs. I screw it in finger tight then back off half a turn or so & ensure the chain exits nut in such a way as to be aligned with the cable. However, would that possibly cause a slight delay or "catch" when shifting to high? I'm not sure, but it's the only thing that is different and I can feel a difference.


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