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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

gster 03-28-15 01:26 PM

3 Attachment(s)
Homemade Hub Shiners.
Some leather and some inexpensive snaps and presto! Hub Shiners!
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=441674http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=441675http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=441676

forestine 03-28-15 02:18 PM

That looks great! Good DIY.

BigChief 03-29-15 06:09 AM


Originally Posted by arex (Post 17669307)
The pulley on my '74 was also on the lower seat tube, rather than up by the seat. On my rebuild, I'm putting it down low again, rather than move it up.


Originally Posted by arex (Post 17669307)
The pulley on my '74 was also on the lower seat tube, rather than up by the seat. On my rebuild, I'm putting it down low again, rather than move it up.

Back in the summers of 69 and 70, I had a job at a Raleigh/Schwinn bike shop. I was the kid in the shop so my job was doing the kid bike assemblies so the older guys could build and work on the better bikes. The cables would all be run at the dealer during assembly, so the routing would be decided by the guy assembling the bike. I think most people routed the cable at the top of the seat tube just because that's the way it was always done on gent's frames. No reason not to route it to the bottom like a stepthrough. Just tradition.

michaelz28 03-29-15 07:06 AM

I was looking at the Raleigh catalog and before 73 and including 73 cable routing was by the seat . 74 and after it was down by the crank .

gster 03-29-15 07:09 AM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by michaelz28 (Post 17671447)
I was looking at the Raleigh catalog and before 73 and including 73 cable routing was by the seat . 74 and after it was down by the crank .

I like the look of the pulley mounted at the top and will re route a lower one.
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=441777

markk900 03-29-15 07:21 AM

@gster: my 74 Glider (Raleigh) has the full cable down to a stop on the chainstay. So 73/74 routing changes make sense. I also think it was a cost cutting move as the combination of a fulcrum stop, pulley and clamp (plus assembly time), whether the pulley was up high or down low, was probably higher than a cable and very cheap cable stop.

noglider 03-29-15 08:01 AM

There is a reason to route it above. Small changes in wheel placement in the dropout turn into big changes in gear cable tension if your pulley is at the bottom, because the cable runs along the chain stay. By contrast, if your pulley is at the top, moving your wheel just changes the angle (imperceptibly) of the gear cable, and you don't have to readjust the tension. Of course, the top routing is not an option on a ladies bike.

gster 03-29-15 08:20 AM

1 Attachment(s)
My late model, Canadian built Superbe (1978) has the lower routing.
The welded on brake cable eyelets and the addition of the pump prohibit running the cable over a pulley.
I'll be taking it out shortly for a ride.....
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=441784

BigChief 03-29-15 08:53 AM

I wish I could recall with certainty if the pulleys came pre attached to the Raleigh frames, but I'm 99% sure they didn't. I didn't build many 3 speeds. We sold tons of those Choppers and Sting Ray type bikes with 5 speed derailleurs and that's what I spent most of my days assembling. But I clearly remember the Raleigh boxes and how they came packed. The cranks and forks were installed, but most everything else had to be assembled. There were plastic bags with pedals, handlebars, grips, brake and shift levers, cables and clips. All were assembled at the dealer. I don't think you can assign any particular cable routing to any year.

arex 03-29-15 12:26 PM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 17671577)
There is a reason to route it above. Small changes in wheel placement in the dropout turn into big changes in gear cable tension if your pulley is at the bottom, because the cable runs along the chain stay. By contrast, if your pulley is at the top, moving your wheel just changes the angle (imperceptibly) of the gear cable, and you don't have to readjust the tension. Of course, the top routing is not an option on a ladies bike.

Hm...that actually makes a lot of sense. I wish I'd have been thinking about that earlier, before I had the braze-ons done.

gster 03-29-15 12:38 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Last photo of this one..
1938 Hercules Falcon
I've attached an older, broken in Wrights saddle that's more period appropriate.
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=441830http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=441822

look566 rider 03-29-15 01:47 PM

Need some brake cable help...

Details, 1951 Rudge Sports 3 speed almost completely original. A few bolts for fenders and such, tires & tubes, brake pads and bar grips have been replaced.

Knew this was a potential issue when I started. The brake cables, original to the bike seem to be stretched as the barrel adjuster is at the limit of taking up slack. Neither brake will perform as intended with the original cables. The caliper end of the cable has round or ball type end. The cable itself measures 45 3/8.

So am I correct in thinking the cables are stretched? Have done some light searching on the web and there seem to be NOS sets available a fair price. Can the originals be shortened?

If I replace the cables, how do I go about making sure I get the correct length?

markk900 03-29-15 01:50 PM

@gster: you and I will have to go for a ride together - I am only an hour west of you but I love your choices in bikes and riding locations!

markk900 03-29-15 01:55 PM


Originally Posted by look566 rider (Post 17672471)
Need some brake cable help...

Details, 1951 Rudge Sports 3 speed almost completely original. A few bolts for fenders and such, tires & tubes, brake pads and bar grips have been replaced.

Knew this was a potential issue when I started. The brake cables, original to the bike seem to be stretched as the barrel adjuster is at the limit of taking up slack. Neither brake will perform as intended with the original cables.

So am I correct in thinking the cables are stretched? Have done some light searching on the web and there seem to be NOS sets available a fair price. Can the originals be shortened?

If I replace the cables, how do I go about making sure I get the correct length?

If the Rudge has "Raleigh" style brakes then the end on the caliper is swaged/soldered on, so replacing the cables means buying NOS cables (that come with the adjuster permanently attached - you change cables by throwing out the old adjuster), and those tend not to be cheap, or you do some searching here and find out a variety of ways to take a more modern cable and attaching the end on it.

See this 1949 Humber caliper (Raleigh type):
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/a...psffwnujgm.jpg

If you don't have Raleigh style brakes and the end of the wire at the caliper is held on with a nut and bolt that the wire passes through and you tighten it up, just like today's bikes, then you can buy pretty much any cable from the LBS and cut it to length.

See this 1974 Glider caliper (new type)
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/a...psy6d3r7tt.jpg

To maintain originality, you can buy just the inner wire from the LBS and keep the housing.

look566 rider 03-29-15 02:15 PM


Originally Posted by markk900 (Post 17672501)
If the Rudge has "Raleigh" style brakes then the end on the caliper is swaged/soldered on, so replacing the cables means buying NOS cables (that come with the adjuster permanently attached - you change cables by throwing out the old adjuster), and those tend not to be cheap, or you do some searching here and find out a variety of ways to take a more modern cable and attaching the end on it.

See this 1949 Humber caliper (Raleigh type):
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/a...psm30s3rsl.jpg

If you don't have Raleigh style brakes and the end of the wire at the caliper is held on with a nut and bolt that the wire passes through and you tighten it up, just like today's bikes, then you can buy pretty much any cable from the LBS and cut it to length.

See this 1974 Glider caliper (new type)
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/a...psy6d3r7tt.jpg

To maintain originality, you can buy just the inner wire from the LBS and keep the housing.

The top picture represents the current set up. I am not opposed to making what I have work by retrofitting, but I would be OK with spending to get as close to original as possible.

Can someone help me by telling how figure out the original cable lengths? I would think the cable could have stretched at least 3/8 of an inch. Front cable has similar stretch.

markk900 03-29-15 02:21 PM


Originally Posted by look566 rider (Post 17672560)
The top picture represents the current set up. I am not opposed to making what I have work by retrofitting, but I would be OK with spending to get as close to original as possible.

Can someone help me by telling how figure out the original cable lengths? I would think the cable could have stretched at least 3/8 of an inch. Front cable has similar stretch.

Just measure from lever to caliper - there were a few different lengths but most of the men's bikes were a standard size.

Also, I tried making my own by soldering a cut down spoke nipple on the end of a modern cable - worked GREAT and was invisible as the spoke nipple fits perfectly into the caliper. Try to buy galvanized brake wire though as a number of people reported issues with modern stainless steel and soldering.

ps. I replaced the first picture with a clearer one - you must have been reading it when I made the change!

PalmettoUpstate 03-29-15 06:39 PM

No time to doink or dink....

If you are in striking range in the PNW grab it:

Vintage 1970 Schwinn 3 speed mens bicycle

PalmettoUpstate 03-29-15 06:47 PM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 17671577)
There is a reason to route it above. Small changes in wheel placement in the dropout turn into big changes in gear cable tension if your pulley is at the bottom, because the cable runs along the chain stay. By contrast, if your pulley is at the top, moving your wheel just changes the angle (imperceptibly) of the gear cable, and you don't have to readjust the tension. Of course, the top routing is not an option on a ladies bike.

True and good. BTW, again, many thanks for your prompt on the Google/Craigslist updates. Crucial. Tx.

BigChief 03-30-15 06:08 AM

Just found these while brake shopping for my Rudge project. Tektro does make left sided long reach brakes. Model 800A.
I can mount these and keep the traditional right side rear without cross routing the cables.
Tektro 800A Sidepull Brake Set - Modern Bike

gster 03-30-15 07:01 AM

10 Attachment(s)
Called about this one today.
BSA Golden Clubman not sure of the year. Seller has got someone coming today to look.
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=441999http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=442000http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=442001http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=442002http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=442003http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=442004http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=442005http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=442006http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=442007http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=442008

noglider 03-30-15 09:57 AM

I was told (by someone I consider to be more expert than I am) that cables don't actually stretch, it's that housings compress. Of course, the result is the same, whichever happens.

noglider 03-30-15 09:59 AM

@gster, that's pretty special. Rod-actuated drum brakes should be super reliable on African safaris.

gster 03-30-15 10:12 AM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 17674756)
@gster, that's pretty special. Rod-actuated drum brakes should be super reliable on African safaris.

It probably weighs a ton!
I was in Rwanda a few years ago and they use their bicycles (similar to this) for everything.
Taxis, riding, hauling cargo, generators etc.

noglider 03-30-15 11:21 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 17674806)
It probably weighs a ton!

That's fine. Just take it on downhill routes.


I was in Rawanda a few years ago and they use their bicycles (similar to this) for everything.
Taxis, riding, hauling cargo, generators etc.
I've seen pictures and videos. Amazing stuff.

Slash5 03-30-15 11:48 AM

Not strictly English but it's the colonies - does that count? A Sekine from Manitoba.
This was a winter project, first time outdoors. Still needs some cleanup, hard to do in the basement.
From the local bike co-op. Paid too much but I assume they put the tires and saddle on it. Saddle is hard as rock, some sort of knock off. Hopefully it will work in.
Brakes were greasy/oily, cleaned with brake cleaner but still don't stop that great. Have to try heating them between sessions of brake cleaner. Greased the hub bearings while I was in there.
Cables are in good condition but need to shorten the housings, probably just replace the housing and cables.
Has Araya alloy mountain bike rims.

http://i.imgur.com/vHCd801.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/TFRPrEn.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/G3ulmbm.jpg


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