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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

arex 03-21-16 06:23 PM


Originally Posted by driftlesscycles (Post 18626371)
I know this isn't exactly a 3 speed, but I figured this was the best thread for this. This is a Raleigh Sprite with a SA S5 hub stamped 69 on it. A guy who was tearing down a shed had this bike in it for the last thirty years and passed it along to me. It's dusty but the frame should clean up nicely. It looks like the pedals and the grips are not original. Does anybody know what the originals would have looked like and where to find vintage pedals and grips for this bike? Also, I don't seem to find too many different examples of this model when doing a google image search. Is there not much interest in the 5-speeeds or are they just uncommon?

You're forgiven.

I don't know much about these, but I think that it'll have a lot in common with a 3-speed Sports, except for the rear hub, obviously. I can't imagine that pedals and grips are going to be any different.

Loose Chain 03-21-16 06:52 PM

Thanks guys, multiple, for the info, I appreciate it.

I had a duh moment on the front bracket, yes indeed it is for a headlamp. I will just need to find the bracket for my Miller lighting set (I have the head lamp, tail and dynamo and original wires but not the correct clamp).

I will definitely look at the B72. The reason I was thinking B17 is that I have the bike set for aggressive riding (I know, I know, yes, yes) and since I have a moderate forward lean on it I was thinking a B72 might be too wide. BTW, I am not leaned over nearly as much as on my road bikes or even my Surly CC, comparatively I am quite comfy on it. I may look at locating a bigger frame in a salvage bike. I realize that the swept back bars of these English cruisers allows a longer top tube than I would ride on a performance bike (all of my bikes have a tt of 22 plus or minus) and this Raleigh Sports is right in there. But yes, I will study on that.

1. I do not know how to adjust the hub. I am pretty good with derailleurs but have never been in a 3 speed hub. When I am trying to get first there does not seem to be any give in the chain coming from the hub?

2. Also, I was indeed going to install the Miller lighting set, it does work but is heavy?

bmthom.gis 03-21-16 07:41 PM


Originally Posted by Loose Chain (Post 18626454)
Thanks guys, multiple, for the info, I appreciate it.

I had a duh moment on the front bracket, yes indeed it is for a headlamp. I will just need to find the bracket for my Miller lighting set (I have the head lamp, tail and dynamo and original wires but not the correct clamp).

I will definitely look at the B72. The reason I was thinking B17 is that I have the bike set for aggressive riding (I know, I know, yes, yes) and since I have a moderate forward lean on it I was thinking a B72 might be too wide. BTW, I am not leaned over nearly as much as on my road bikes or even my Surly CC, comparatively I am quite comfy on it. I may look at locating a bigger frame in a salvage bike. I realize that the swept back bars of these English cruisers allows a longer top tube than I would ride on a performance bike (all of my bikes have a tt of 22 plus or minus) and this Raleigh Sports is right in there. But yes, I will study on that.

1. I do not know how to adjust the hub. I am pretty good with derailleurs but have never been in a 3 speed hub. When I am trying to get first there does not seem to be any give in the chain coming from the hub?

2. Also, I was indeed going to install the Miller lighting set, it does work but is heavy?

With the hub, start with the trigger in 3rd gear, attach the anchor amd screw until taught. Try shifting to 2nd and then 1st. If it wont, loosen it just a bit and try again. The key is the be in 3rd, as that is the loosest position

Salubrious 03-21-16 08:14 PM


Originally Posted by Loose Chain (Post 18626454)
I had a duh moment on the front bracket, yes indeed it is for a headlamp. I will just need to find the bracket for my Miller lighting set (I have the head lamp, tail and dynamo and original wires but not the correct clamp).

1. I do not know how to adjust the hub. I am pretty good with derailleurs but have never been in a 3 speed hub. When I am trying to get first there does not seem to be any give in the chain coming from the hub?

2. Also, I was indeed going to install the Miller lighting set, it does work but is heavy?

When you get used to the hub you will find it a lot easier to work with than a dérailleur. Its possible to misinterpret the above advice; at any rate when in first the adjuster chain should not have any play but while it being easy to shift the shifter into low. If you get a false neutral in 2nd the cable it too loose, if you get in the 3rd the cable is too tight.

The Miller light set is almost identical to some of the SA lighting sets. I think it is built a little better and it is slightly heavier. You can find mounting brackets on ebay to fit the headlight that will allow you to use that 'thing' on the headset.

Velocivixen 03-21-16 08:26 PM

I won't go into all the specifics here about how to adjust the shifting on a 3 speed Sturmey archer hub, but if you do an online search for it you'll find a page by Sheldon brown. Basically when your shifter is in the middle position, look through the hole in the drive side axle nut, which projects beyond the frame where the indicator chain enters. The indicator chain is connected to an indicator pin which is inside the axle and screwed into a clutch. Anyway, when shifter is in middle position the shoulder of that pin should be even with the end of the axle. You may have to use a flashlight to see.

If you search online and see some photos or diagrams it will make better sense.


Go here and scroll down to "cable adjustment"


http://sheldonbrown.com/sturmey-arch...tml#adjustment

gna 03-21-16 11:25 PM


Originally Posted by driftlesscycles (Post 18626371)
I know this isn't exactly a 3 speed, but I figured this was the best thread for this. This is a Raleigh Sprite with a SA S5 hub stamped 69 on it. A guy who was tearing down a shed had this bike in it for the last thirty years and passed it along to me. It's dusty but the frame should clean up nicely. It looks like the pedals and the grips are not original. Does anybody know what the originals would have looked like and where to find vintage pedals and grips for this bike? Also, I don't seem to find too many different examples of this model when doing a google image search. Is there not much interest in the 5-speeeds or are they just uncommon?

Grips would be identical to a Sports of the era, either gray "torpedo" grips or black Raleigh grips:

http://thumbs3.ebaystatic.com/d/l225...bM23Mi6RKw.jpg

Pedals are probably regular rubber block pedals. Many bike recyclers have old Raleigh parts and may have pedals and grips.

If what you have works and is comfortable, keep it.

Although not that common, the S5 is an excellent hub, but the shifters are the weak point. I've met a few people who have S5s, and most have changed out the shifters and just use regular triggers on the bars. Is yours an S5, with a bellcrank on the left, or an S5/1 or S5/2, with toggle chains on the left?
About the Sturmey-Archer S5, S5.2 and AT5 Wide-Ratio 5-Speed Bicycle Hubs

BigChief 03-22-16 04:29 AM

2 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by driftlesscycles (Post 18626371)
I know this isn't exactly a 3 speed, but I figured this was the best thread for this. This is a Raleigh Sprite with a SA S5 hub stamped 69 on it. A guy who was tearing down a shed had this bike in it for the last thirty years and passed it along to me. It's dusty but the frame should clean up nicely. It looks like the pedals and the grips are not original. Does anybody know what the originals would have looked like and where to find vintage pedals and grips for this bike? Also, I don't seem to find too many different examples of this model when doing a google image search. Is there not much interest in the 5-speeeds or are they just uncommon?

I've had my 69 Sprite on the road for two years now and I LOVE the S5 hub! I could go on and on about it, but there's one thing I'd like to tell you right away. If you find that the bike shifts poorly, don't blame the hub. It's the shifters that stink. I did my best to get along with the original stick shifters, but they are just plain bad. My bike shifts perfectly now with a regular 3 speed trigger on the right and a SunTour handlebar friction shifter on the left for the bell crank.
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=510867http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=510868

servalan73 03-22-16 08:24 AM

I have one of these on my tourist. After years of Halogen and LED lamps I'd forgotten all about the traditional browny yellow glow of this kind of thing!

noglider 03-22-16 08:50 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 18627043)
I've had my 69 Sprite on the road for two years now and I LOVE the S5 hub! I could go on and on about it, but there's one thing I'd like to tell you right away. If you find that the bike shifts poorly, don't blame the hub. It's the shifters that stink. I did my best to get along with the original stick shifters, but they are just plain bad. My bike shifts perfectly now with a regular 3 speed trigger on the right and a SunTour handlebar friction shifter on the left for the bell crank.

You can also use a 3-speed shifter on the left, too. Just use two of the three positions.

I like the S5, too. It works well. Range is slightly greater than that of the AW hub, and gaps between gears are slightly smaller.

BigChief 03-22-16 03:24 PM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 18627551)
You can also use a 3-speed shifter on the left, too. Just use two of the three positions.

I like the S5, too. It works well. Range is slightly greater than that of the AW hub, and gaps between gears are slightly smaller.

When I was setting up the shifters, I was so pleased with the, closer than AW gear ratios that I considered not bothering with the bell crank at all.
Glad I did though. That granny gear is nice to have on a 34 pound bike.

gster 03-22-16 04:59 PM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 18628827)
When I was setting up the shifters, I was so pleased with the, closer than AW gear ratios that I considered not bothering with the bell crank at all.
Glad I did though. That granny gear is nice to have on a 34 pound bike.

I replaced the original shifters with these S/A throttle style ones.
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=511053

Loose Chain 03-22-16 06:17 PM

Three more questions.

1. How do I remove the grips without destroying them, heat gun?

2. Running the wires for my front/rear dynamo, how is the headlamp wire typically routed (obviously zip ties were not around)?

3. Spokes, I know I asked once in part already, is there not a suitable replacement?

That square lantern is really a cool piece!

Thanks.

DQRider 03-22-16 07:30 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 18629078)
I replaced the original shifters with these S/A throttle style ones.
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=511053

Hey, those are COOL!

Will one of those work with a standard 3-speed AW? I would love to build that into my next project.

gster 03-22-16 07:39 PM

2 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by DQRider (Post 18629443)
Hey, those are COOL!

Will one of those work with a standard 3-speed AW? I would love to build that into my next project.

there was a single 3 speed version.
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=511071http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=511072

driftlesscycles 03-22-16 08:14 PM

Thanks for all the info on the S5 hub. Mine has the TT shifters, although one of the black knobs is a little chewed up I'm not too concerned with it. Just cleaned the dirt off of it this evening it looks like the paint has held up nicely. I know there will probably be various preferences, but what polishing compounds work best with these Raleighs?

DQRider 03-22-16 08:17 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 18629466)

Oh, now ya done it...

How hard is it to get one of those? I think I probably need one.

gna 03-22-16 08:53 PM


Originally Posted by Loose Chain (Post 18629289)
Three more questions.

1. How do I remove the grips without destroying them, heat gun?

2. Running the wires for my front/rear dynamo, how is the headlamp wire typically routed (obviously zip ties were not around)?

3. Spokes, I know I asked once in part already, is there not a suitable replacement?

That square lantern is really a cool piece!

Thanks.

1. I usually use a pick or small screwdriver to work under the edge so I can get the straw of a can WD40 under the rubber. Spray a bit in and try to work it around.

2. The traditional method involved clips for the wire, or wrapping around the fork or frame, or both:

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/f...h/P1011070.jpg

3. Not sure what you mean. You can use modern stainless spokes, but you'll need spoke washers, as per Bikesmith. I've used DT.


Remember to use spoke washers, if you use modern spokes. They have larger radius bends for modern, thicker hub flanges.

For DT spokes I use 2 washers under the heads of inside spokes (head on the outside) and one for outside spokes. For Wheelsmith I use 3 and 2.

Sun CR-18s are the only alloy rim in the 3 speed size, 26 x 1-3/8" (590 etrto) available in the US, 32, 36 and 40. Raised center "Westrick" steel rims have the same ERD, so you can reuse the spokes if they are in good shape. With flat center "Eastrick" rims you are out of luck.

Loose Chain 03-22-16 09:21 PM


Originally Posted by gna (Post 18629642)
1. I usually use a pick or small screwdriver to work under the edge so I can get the straw of a can WD40 under the rubber. Spray a bit in and try to work it around.

2. The traditional method involved clips for the wire, or wrapping around the fork or frame, or both:

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/f...h/P1011070.jpg

3. Not sure what you mean. You can use modern stainless spokes, but you'll need spoke washers, as per Bikesmith. I've used DT.

Thanks, I just wrapped the dynamo wires as I have for many years. I figure there are some clips, I will pay attention if and when I see another three speed bike with a dynamo.

And, pretty cool but the rear light, well, it lights up nicely and the front light does as well. But, I will have to find a bracket for it to mount to the Raleigh "thing" on the front.

On the Sports in your photo, I notice the brake pads are nearly full down in order to engage the rims, mine are mid way. Did Raleigh source different length brakes from year to year?

gna 03-22-16 09:40 PM


Originally Posted by Loose Chain (Post 18629721)
Thanks, I just wrapped the dynamo wires as I have for many years. I figure there are some clips, I will pay attention if and when I see another three speed bike with a dynamo.

Some 3 speed clamps for brake cables will have a little bump for routing wire. I can't find a picture and I'm too lazy to go out to the garage now.


On the Sports in your photo, I notice the brake pads are nearly full down in order to engage the rims, mine are mid way. Did Raleigh source different length brakes from year to year?
I just stole that pic off the interwebz. I don't know that Raleigh sourced much of anything until sometime in the '70s--they built just about everything in house. That said, I've no idea. Older brakes may have been shorter.

clubman 03-22-16 09:42 PM


Originally Posted by Loose Chain (Post 18629721)
On the Sports in your photo, I notice the brake pads are nearly full down in order to engage the rims, mine are mid way. Did Raleigh source different length brakes from year to year?

That caliper was probably designed accommodate wheelsets from EA3s to 27 11/4". Huge range of brake shoe adjustment!

Edit. that Sports is older with very different generation of parts and maybe slack geometry, brake bridge position, fork length. Calipers could be designed for range of frames.

Loose Chain 03-22-16 09:53 PM


Originally Posted by gna (Post 18629751)
Some 3 speed clamps for brake cables will have a little bump for routing wire. I can't find a picture and I'm too lazy to go out to the garage now.



I just stole that pic off the interwebs. I don't know that Raleigh sourced much of anything until sometime in the '70s--they built just about everything in house.

Thus my curiosity as to why the brake sets would differ if made from the same tooling. But as the next poster says, perhaps they did have different sets to accommodate the (weird) to me 27 inch wheels or evolving geometry.

In working on this bike, I have found some odd bolt/nut sizes that do not correspond to SAE or Metric wrenches. :). Since in one of my careers I was/am an A&P mechanic, I have a surplus of tools, somewhere around the value of some people's houses alone, and yet I had to dig to the back to find some British Bastard wrenches and Whitworth. And still it does not fit!

gster 03-23-16 04:15 AM


Originally Posted by DQRider (Post 18629551)
Oh, now ya done it...

How hard is it to get one of those? I think I probably need one.

They're around but not as common as the thumb shifter. Probably only used for a year or two. Cool? Yes but the traditional shifter is more practical.

DQRider 03-23-16 07:35 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 18630002)
They're around but not as common as the thumb shifter. Probably only used for a year or two. Cool? Yes but the traditional shifter is more practical.

I still have this idea of building a super-light 3-speed with some hot-rod touches. That said, the big shifter probably does not fit with the super-light concept. Oh well, this will be a project for next winter, so I've got plenty of time to figure it out.

noglider 03-23-16 08:16 AM

For removing grips, I prefer water or something slimy like soapy water. You can spray Fantastik or something similar. This stuff dries a lot faster than WD40.

You can attach dynamo wire with silicon glue. Secure it temporarily with zip ties until the glue dries. This way, you can put the wire on the inside of the fork and make it nearly invisible.

arex 03-23-16 01:29 PM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 18630356)
You can attach dynamo wire with silicon glue. Secure it temporarily with zip ties until the glue dries. This way, you can put the wire on the inside of the fork and make it nearly invisible.

One caveat about silicone products is there's a wide variety of types and qualities...be sure you're getting one with a good name, high adhesion, and good weather resistance. There's some that don't deal with outdoor conditions well at all.

Also, there doesn't need to be a continuous bead of product along the length of the wire...1/4" blobs every three inches or so is sufficient.


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