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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

arex 05-10-16 07:12 PM


Originally Posted by agmetal (Post 18753084)
Thanks, but I'm looking for ERD for spoke length, not ETRTO for tire sizing

I'm going off on a bit of a tangent here, but in the case of old rims like @agmetal has where there's no published data, could the ERD be calculated from a formula that uses the distance between spoke holes (which yes, would need to be a very accurate measurement) and the number of spokes? I'm sure it could be done, but I don't remember enough trigonometry to figure out the formula.

clubman 05-10-16 07:29 PM


Originally Posted by arex (Post 18757173)
I'm going off on a bit of a tangent here, but in the case of old rims like @agmetal has where there's no published data, could the ERD be calculated from a formula that uses the distance between spoke holes (which yes, would need to be a very accurate measurement) and the number of spokes? I'm sure it could be done, but I don't remember enough trigonometry to figure out the formula.

@agmetal

@Scooper posted this awhile back and it's foolproof.

http://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-me...ml#post6364862

Well maybe you could mess it up but you always have to take a few samples, rims are often out of round. This has worked for me several times.

agmetal 05-10-16 08:01 PM

That's similar to a suggestion I saw on the Spocalc website. Not hard to do (once I have the parts in hand), but I'll admit to being lazy and hoping someone had the numbers worked out already

clubman 05-10-16 08:16 PM


Originally Posted by agmetal (Post 18757273)
That's similar to a suggestion I saw on the Spocalc website. Not hard to do (once I have the parts in hand), but I'll admit to being lazy and hoping someone had the numbers worked out already

I'm also to lazy to go back to see what hubs you're using but if they are standard Raleigh/SA hubs, this might do.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-I...Spokechart.jpg

SirMike1983 05-10-16 08:18 PM


Originally Posted by agmetal (Post 18752803)
Question for anyone who's rebuilt 28" roadster wheels - does anyone know what the ERD is? I'm planning to buy a pair of NOS Westwood rims, I think Dunlop

If you find another Westwood 28 x 1-1/2, it may be a direct swap and involve using the same spokes. The challenge is that they're hard to find in decent condition today.

The 28 inch Westwood rim was a common design. If you're sure that you are getting another set, you may want to buy the rims first, and then see if you can get the original spokes to work by first comparing the rims, then (if they are very close) trying to build the wheel. Replace the elliptical nipple washers if they are rusted (they often rust).


Originally Posted by slowtostart (Post 18753698)
Mark, yes, Neal has offered a replacement. The damage exceeds the plastic. The missing, snapped off metal, coincides with the broken plastic.

Anyone else experienced this shifter issue?

Absolutely common: the two most broken parts on those 1970s-era shifters are (1) the plastic window and (2) the flat spring that holds the gear lever in place. I've seen plenty of shifters break one or both of those parts. Neal is a real gentleman. He's helped me find a couple odds and ends for bikes over the years.

agmetal 05-10-16 08:27 PM

That chart is awesome, any idea what year it's from?

I'm planning to scratch-build a front wheel around a Dynohub. For the rear, I'll be building a new wheel around the original K hub...anyone know if that's the same dimensions as the AW?

arex 05-10-16 08:49 PM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 18757204)
@agmetal

@Scooper posted this awhile back and it's foolproof.

http://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-me...ml#post6364862

Well maybe you could mess it up but you always have to take a few samples, rims are often out of round. This has worked for me several times.

My idea was mostly just an exercise...I'm not sure how practical it is. This is what I came up with:

base=distance between adjacent spoke holes in mm
n=number of spokes


erd=(2*base)/(2*cos(180/n))

I tested the equation on a couple different wheels (20"x36h and 26"x32h) and the results were close, but not exact. Like I said, the measurement between the spoke holes would have to be extremely accurate, because any error is going to get amplified coming out the other end.

So, in theory, this equation works, but in reality it's probably not practical to use.

clubman 05-10-16 08:54 PM


Originally Posted by arex (Post 18757396)
My idea was mostly just an exercise...I'm not sure how practical it is. This is what I came up with:

base=distance between adjacent spoke holes in mm
n=number of spokes


erd=(2*base)/(2*cos(180/n))

I tested the equation on a couple different wheels (20"x36h and 26"x32h) and the results were close, but not exact. Like I said, the measurement between the spoke holes would have to be extremely accurate, because any error is going to get amplified coming out the other end.

So, in theory, this equation works, but in reality it's probably not practical to use.

It also won't factor in the depth of the rim, single or double eyelets etc. Measure twice, cut once :)

Hey, I got 91 in Functions and Equations but can't remember a bloody thing. Even if I see a published ERD on a well known rim, I measure. It really doesn't take any time to do once you customize a couple of spokes.

gster 05-11-16 07:55 AM

3 Attachment(s)
Not a 3 Speed but Worth a Look
This Raleigh built Eatons Glider 5 speed showed up on Kijiji last week and sold within minutes.
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=520924
It's actually a re branded Carlton Corsa.
The distinctive "C" nuts and chromed forks give it away. Originally equipped with those mini-fenders.
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=520925http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=520926

noglider 05-11-16 11:02 AM

@arex, you can download the spocalc.xls spreadsheet. I think the formula for spoke length is in one cell, and you can read it. It's bigger than your formula.

w1gfh 05-11-16 11:06 AM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 18756013)
FWIW, its arguable that the original design from which the DL-1 derives was the world's first mountain bike. Much of the 3rd world's mail was delivered on such machines, on single-track in the middle of nowhere (or at least so close, you could see it from there).

Take a close look at the images in the background on the home page of the Tour Divide site. They are 3-speed rod brake machines, apparently doing a bit of bikepacking.

I agree the Raleigh roadster design was intended to be at home on pavement as well as gravel and English dirt country lanes. I wonder, which tires have people found that perform well on both? I have Kenda K40s on my Sports. A great and inexpensive tire for pavement, but they are challenged on dirt and some gravel roads, especially where medium sized rocks are embedded on the surface.

Salubrious 05-11-16 11:37 AM

I use cream Schwelbes myself. Delta Cruiser, 40-635, Creme, Wired | Schwalbe North America

arex 05-11-16 02:36 PM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 18758794)
@arex, you can download the spocalc.xls spreadsheet. I think the formula for spoke length is in one cell, and you can read it. It's bigger than your formula.

Right...my formula was only to calculate the ERD, that's all. It got within about 5mm of the published ERD on both wheels I tested it on, which means I'm on the right track, generally, but 5mm isn't close enough to depend on.

Like I said, it was just an exercise to see if it was feasible or even possible to calculate the ERD from the spacing between spokes.

arex 05-11-16 02:39 PM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 18758913)

Don't the light-colored tires get grubby-looking over time, or does normal road wear keep them scrubbed pretty clean?

DQRider 05-11-16 02:46 PM


Originally Posted by arex (Post 18759676)
Don't the light-colored tires get grubby-looking over time, or does normal road wear keep them scrubbed pretty clean?

If it's just road grime on the treads, then yeah, it is pretty much self cleaning. On my DL-1, however, the AW hub seeped a bit of oil on the sidewall of the tire, and I cleaned that off with some Dawn dishsoap and water.

Otherwise, no worries.

noglider 05-11-16 02:49 PM


Originally Posted by arex (Post 18759662)
Right...my formula was only to calculate the ERD

Oops. I was hasty and therefore misunderstood you. Sorry about that.

Salubrious 05-11-16 03:20 PM


Originally Posted by arex (Post 18759676)
Don't the light-colored tires get grubby-looking over time, or does normal road wear keep them scrubbed pretty clean?

I've never had to wash them, after about 2 weeks of riding they got a bit of a patina that matched the age of the bike nicely, and they really have not gotten any worse.

dweenk 05-11-16 03:53 PM

6 Attachment(s)
I need a little help putting lipstick on this pig. I bought this Sports for cheap a while back simply for the rear hub. I stripped it and hung it in the rafters until medical issues had me so bored that I decided to work on it.
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=521006

I cleaned it up a bit and then had more issues, so it sat in this state for a while.
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=521007

Finally, I am back to normal (or the new normal) and want to finish this project. The problem is that it came with no fenders or chain guard. I am not too concerned with the chain guard, but would like to have fenders (unless I go totally path racer with it). Here are my options:
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=521008

Silver SKS that will fit. They look pretty good.
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=521009

Rusty silver Raleigh fenders. They will fit perfectly, but the bad paint on the bike is root beer. BTW, there is also a rusty silver chain guard to match.
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=521010

A pair of dark red/maroon fenders that will fit with a bit of work, and sorta work with the crusty, rusty, dusty paint remnants.

Here it is without fenders.
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=521011

I'll change the handlebar and stem back to the original when they are cleaned up. I have had my eye on a Velo Orange chain guard though...

And yes, there is no rear brake cable right now:)

3speedslow 05-11-16 04:13 PM

Rusty silver fenders will look better and will clean up better then expected.

Glad to hear you are improving.

DQRider 05-11-16 06:43 PM

^^^ +1

adventurepdx 05-11-16 07:36 PM

If you have steel rims, light colored tires will gain a patina/be self cleaning like others have said. HOWEVER, if you have aluminum rims and ride in wet weather, the tires WILL pick up some of that nasty black "brake dust" you get from rim wear.

adventurepdx 05-11-16 07:47 PM

Yes, the mid 80s Schwinn Collegiate was a decent Taiwanese machine and NOT a K-Mart/Walmart offering. Schwinn was still a decent quality (if a little behind) bike shop brand in the 80s. I had one of these Collegiates and they were solid bikes.

Narsinha 05-12-16 03:32 AM

Hello,
i have a problem or several regarding my Raleigh supposed to be a DL1, from appx. 1979/80 (mark on the SA hubs is 79). It has a "Tourist-S" lettering on the all-enclosing chain gearcase. Someone here said it could be an export model. It has SA brake drums 90 mm front and aft.
Despite its good looks all bearing shells were pitted, so i ordered a lot of parts and began to unmount the hubs, which is when i began to suspect the former owner had mounted some parts in the wrong way, and order.

1. is there an exploded view of how the order of assembly of shims and nuts is on the front and rear axle. I know it should be self-describing and easy, but frankly i am not used to this kind of assembly. There are lots of shims and thicker rings, along with thinner and wider nuts.
It seems every of the four hub/axle ends is somehow different.

2. The rear gear hub does only work in gears 2 and 3, not 1. Cannot shift down properly, and i suspect it has to do something with the length of the axle stub, on the right (rear, of course) side. Which brings me to question 1.

Thanks,
Kai

BigChief 05-12-16 03:51 AM


Originally Posted by Narsinha (Post 18760987)
Hello,
i have a problem or several regarding my Raleigh supposed to be a DL1, from appx. 1979/80 (mark on the SA hubs is 79). It has a "Tourist-S" lettering on the all-enclosing chain gearcase. Someone here said it could be an export model. It has SA brake drums 90 mm front and aft.
Despite its good looks all bearing shells were pitted, so i ordered a lot of parts and began to unmount the hubs, which is when i began to suspect the former owner had mounted some parts in the wrong way, and order.

1. is there an exploded view of how the order of assembly of shims and nuts is on the front and rear axle. I know it should be self-describing and easy, but frankly i am not used to this kind of assembly. There are lots of shims and thicker rings, along with thinner and wider nuts.
It seems every of the four hub/axle ends is somehow different.

2. The rear gear hub does only work in gears 2 and 3, not 1. Cannot shift down properly, and i suspect it has to do something with the length of the axle stub, on the right (rear, of course) side. Which brings me to question 1.

Thanks,
Kai

If you Google images for Sturmey Archer AW hub exploded view, you'll find the correct placement of the parts. It is common for previous owners to mix them up. On the front hub, there are no lock nuts on the cones. It's a Raleigh thing. That's why you have to spread the fork legs to release the wheel and why the cone with the flats for the cone wrench must always be on the left side.

Narsinha 05-12-16 07:02 AM

Hello BigChief,
thanks, i get lots of pictures but none exactly corresponds with my kind of hub, also the Hub interior and end nuts of the hub itself are shown, but not how it is built into the frame/dropouts. Will make some potos when i'm home..

Kai


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