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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

JaccoW 07-25-18 02:47 PM

Anyone interested in a 4-speed Dynohub?

https://i.imgur.com/hFmXKIO.jpg

Never seen one of these before. Some 3-speed versions but not this one.

noglider 07-25-18 03:51 PM

And it's only 30.00!

desconhecido 07-25-18 04:56 PM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 20469385)
And it's only 30.00!

I glanced over the pictures and I don't see an indiator -- either side. Aren't those hard to source?

Also, says that the Dyno is untested. For a Dyno, I'd want the seller to test it and at least verify that it works.

thumpism 07-25-18 04:57 PM

Right fork leg bent backwards toward the frame, or bent inward toward the left fork leg? If the former, a piece of pipe or a fork straightening tool will do it. If the latter, remove the wheel and measure between the dropouts with a caliper then tug the fork leg to the right a bit (1/8-1/4" at a time, checking with the caliper) then tug the other leg to bring it back to the right OLD. Test to see if the bike rides straight when hands-off. Repeat as necessary.

Originally Posted by Lawrence_S (Post 20468483)
Unfortunately the right front fork leg is slightly bent in towards the frame and causes the wheel to want to track to the right. Any links to a safe and as-gentle-as-possible method for straightening? I assume a large pipe would also work.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5778c4224c.jpg


desconhecido 07-25-18 04:58 PM


Originally Posted by JaccoW (Post 20469268)
Anyone interested in a 4-speed Dynohub?


Never seen one of these before. Some 3-speed versions but not this one.

I have one -- a 1953 -- that I have half-way built into a Super Course MK II. Bought it from a forum member.

Cute Boy Horse 07-25-18 05:26 PM

The dyno-four is uncommon in the UK, I can imagine it's gold dust in the US. Anyone ever screwed together a dyno-five? Would be a good bragging rights project.

clubman 07-25-18 05:34 PM

How did he test the gears without those somewhat rare indicators?

BigChief 07-25-18 05:41 PM


Originally Posted by Lawrence_S (Post 20468483)
Thanks, BigChief. Did the Danish-produced Raleighs have the Nottingham head badge and "Made in England" decals? I suppose this frame could have had new decals but from the looks of them they're pretty old. The serial is "W0..." [Edit: actually I believe it is N0...] and the SA AW hub is "7" and "80" so I'm fairly certain of the date.

I'm enjoying the DL-1. Unfortunately the right front fork leg is slightly bent in towards the frame and causes the wheel to want to track to the right. Any links to a safe and as-gentle-as-possible method for straightening? I assume a large pipe would also work.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5778c4224c.jpg

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...453fecf7a8.jpg

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c64498ff6d.jpg

I didn't look closely enough. I saw the loop frame and thought it was a big roadster. The rear carrier, seat and reflector are exactly the type used on the Danish Raleighs, but now I see this has brazed on seat stays and 26" wheels. I have never seen this model before. The fork can be straightened. A good feature of mild steel is that it can take a lot of bending without weakening .

desconhecido 07-25-18 06:12 PM


Originally Posted by Cute Boy Horse (Post 20469562)
The dyno-four is uncommon in the UK, I can imagine it's gold dust in the US. Anyone ever screwed together a dyno-five? Would be a good bragging rights project.

4-speed hubs can be converted to 5-speed, but my understanding is that it requires a different sun gear, which is not easily obtainable, and then a mechanism on the left of the axle to operate the second indicator, which with the 5-speed is just a small rod. The two part 4-speed indicator gets replaced with a standard 3-speed on the right and the rod on the left. Shimano bell cranks can be modified to work, but the axle on mine is not long enough, I don't think, to work.

desconhecido 07-25-18 06:24 PM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 20469583)
How did he test the gears without those somewhat rare indicators?

That, I don't know. The ad says the gears work and then says what is pictured is what you get. My wag is that the parts were available for testing but are not included in the sale.

Lawrence_S 07-25-18 06:27 PM


Originally Posted by thumpism (Post 20469501)
Right fork leg bent backwards toward the frame, or bent inward toward the left fork leg? If the former, a piece of pipe or a fork straightening tool will do it. If the latter, remove the wheel and measure between the dropouts with a caliper then tug the fork leg to the right a bit (1/8-1/4" at a time, checking with the caliper) then tug the other leg to bring it back to the right OLD. Test to see if the bike rides straight when hands-off. Repeat as necessary.

Thumpism, it's bent straight back perhaps a heavy 1/8", enough to see it visually and definitely enough to make the wheel track right when centered between the fork legs. The wheel still mounts easily in the dropouts, just cocked to one side. Thanks for the advice.

Lawrence_S 07-25-18 06:34 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20469604)
I didn't look closely enough. I saw the loop frame and thought it was a big roadster. The rear carrier, seat and reflector are exactly the type used on the Danish Raleighs, but now I see this has brazed on seat stays and 26" wheels. I have never seen this model before. The fork can be straightened. A good feature of mild steel is that it can take a lot of bending without weakening .

Thanks BigChief. I've not been able to find out any info on this iteration of the Superbe. The N0... serial number on the rear of the seat tube between the upper stays points toward Nottingham in an aught year, and since the hub was a 1980 I assumed the frame was the same. The Raleigh branded pedals have reflectors. It is very curious.

The bent fork leg is on my gent's DL-1. Going to work on it over the weekend while i wait for my Fibrax pads (I assume the former owner just ditched the original Raleigh pad holders and installed the Fibrax units) to come in. Can the KoolStop inserts be modified to work with Fibrax holders? It doesn't appear that they do, but I'm new to all the tricks.

Cute Boy Horse 07-25-18 08:19 PM


Originally Posted by Lawrence_S (Post 20469729)
Thanks BigChief. I've not been able to find out any info on this iteration of the Superbe. The N0... serial number on the rear of the seat tube between the upper stays points toward Nottingham in an aught year, and since the hub was a 1980 I assumed the frame was the same. The Raleigh branded pedals have reflectors. It is very curious.

The bent fork leg is on my gent's DL-1. Going to work on it over the weekend while i wait for my Fibrax pads (I assume the former owner just ditched the original Raleigh pad holders and installed the Fibrax units) to come in. Can the KoolStop inserts be modified to work with Fibrax holders? It doesn't appear that they do, but I'm new to all the tricks.

I believe it's definitely a British made bike. The UK superbe in the 1980s got a luggage rack and mudguard mounted tail light, although I've never seen one with a white safety patch. The late 70s was when they introduced the loop frame version too.

What has me curious is that it's black. Superbes are green, not black... Except I've come across one in perfect condition that was black. That was cable braked, rack and mudguard mounted light too. Usually the other coloured versions were called "Royal Roadster" at that time, not that you'll ever find it in a catalogue...

Does the front mudguard have any sign there was a flap attached? Two rivets near the bottom? Is there a fork lock? The superbe decal on the gearcase isn't right for the time. Could be a lower model tarted up a bit?

BigChief 07-25-18 08:33 PM


Originally Posted by Lawrence_S (Post 20469729)
Thanks BigChief. I've not been able to find out any info on this iteration of the Superbe. The N0... serial number on the rear of the seat tube between the upper stays points toward Nottingham in an aught year, and since the hub was a 1980 I assumed the frame was the same. The Raleigh branded pedals have reflectors. It is very curious.

The bent fork leg is on my gent's DL-1. Going to work on it over the weekend while i wait for my Fibrax pads (I assume the former owner just ditched the original Raleigh pad holders and installed the Fibrax units) to come in. Can the KoolStop inserts be modified to work with Fibrax holders? It doesn't appear that they do, but I'm new to all the tricks.

I'm very pleased with the Kool Stop salmon inserts. At first I replaced the whole units with new Fibrax and was very disappointed with them. The original Raleigh holders are curved to match the radius of the rim. The Kool Stop inserts follow that curve when you press them in. The Fibrax holders are straight so only the ends of the pads contact the rim. I suppose they wear into the curve of the rim in time, but in use, they had nowhere near the bite of the Kool Stops. I still have the Fibrax units sitting in a jar on my workbench. I did however return to Fibrax for my Rudge Sports project. This bike is different. I'm doing my best to stay true to the original design so I wanted the traditional British steel holders with black pads. They came in the mail today. The top of the package has the word "science" in large chrome lettering across the top. It's good to know they aren't relying on rumor and superstition over there. I'll see if their science can match the performance of the very untraditional looking Kool Stop Continentals I've been using on my light roadsters tomorrow.

Johno59 07-26-18 02:57 AM

LED Dynohub
 

Originally Posted by noglider (Post 20468418)
Yeah I love old bikes almost as much as other folks here, but I don't enjoy the thought of using filament bulbs with no voltage regulator or engineered reflector or lens. The new lights are so much better than the old ones that it's almost a matter of life and death. I rode a country road with just a flashlight in my hand, and man, was that scary.

It is not a crazy idea to run modern LED lights off an antique Dynohub. In theory it should not work because you're supposed to have a supply of 3W, and the Dynohub is rated at 1.8W, but in practice, it is likely to work OK, especially if you don't hook up a tail light.

I just converted my 1934 and my daughters 1948 to LED. Works great . I put the regulator inside the lamp housing for aesthetics and don't fancy scratching around for a regulator after fixing a roadside puncture .
It does pulse but I want that.

The biggest difference is at very low speed (ie. Walking) you have a bright light which is handy for parking it in a darkened shed. After about 10mph the illumination is pretty steady.

Their website is a good one and covers all scenarios/ages/models and does tell you how to stop the light pulsing.

gster 07-26-18 04:41 AM

BSA for sale in Toronto
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...00291784c4.jpg
$95.00, year unknown.

BigChief 07-26-18 04:49 AM


Originally Posted by Johno59 (Post 20470232)
I just converted my 1934 and my daughters 1948 to LED. Works great . I put the regulator inside the lamp housing for aesthetics and don't fancy scratching around for a regulator after fixing a roadside puncture .
It does pulse but I want that.

The biggest difference is at very low speed (ie. Walking) you have a bright light which is handy for parking it in a darkened shed. After about 10mph the illumination is pretty steady.

Their website is a good one and covers all scenarios/ages/models and does tell you how to stop the light pulsing.

I think I'll move to plan B and try the LED conversion. I like your idea of mounting the regulator inside the lamp shell.
edit
I'm at the Nicelite site now and they say their bulbs must be wired in parallel. Mine are wired in series. How did you rewire yours?

Lawrence_S 07-26-18 05:01 AM


Originally Posted by Cute Boy Horse (Post 20469940)
I believe it's definitely a British made bike. The UK superbe in the 1980s got a luggage rack and mudguard mounted tail light, although I've never seen one with a white safety patch. The late 70s was when they introduced the loop frame version too.


What has me curious is that it's black. Superbes are green, not black... Except I've come across one in perfect condition that was black. That was cable braked, rack and mudguard mounted light too. Usually the other coloured versions were called "Royal Roadster" at that time, not that you'll ever find it in a catalogue...


Does the front mudguard have any sign there was a flap attached? Two rivets near the bottom? Is there a fork lock? The superbe decal on the gearcase isn't right for the time. Could be a lower model tarted up a bit?


Thanks for the response and musings, Cute Boy Horse. The bike is definitely a hodge-podge. I'm reading this at work this a.m. so have not checked the front mudguard for signs of flap attachments; will do that tonight, although from the overall photos I can't see any evidence when I zoom in. Yes, there is a front fork lock and a rear stay mounted wheel lock (with both keys!) The black paint is very heavily applied to the frame to the point where it almost obscures the serial number; not so heavy on the mudguards. The junction between the rear mudguard white safety patch and the black is rather crude - overspray and seepage. I've looked for other color under the black where there are chips and abrasions but I'm not seeing any. The cable housings are black ribbed. The oddest things are the decals. Most of them appear to either have dissolved or have been crudely overpainted. Not having seen a lot of Raleigh decals I can't say for sure. This does have a front fork mounted generator feeding the rear tailight but no front light or front light bracket. Brooks B66S saddle.


So some higher-spec'd items and some not-so-high. I'm leaning towards your Tart theory.


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c89e70615b.jpg

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...17ad3fb9f6.jpg

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...707a49ed11.jpg

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...327cc3026c.jpg

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e4537c3073.jpg

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...50d798ec58.jpg

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...61f8c80c30.jpg

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...cb10f78bae.jpg

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4d0933cf52.jpg

Lawrence_S 07-26-18 05:06 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20469958)
I'm very pleased with the Kool Stop salmon inserts. At first I replaced the whole units with new Fibrax and was very disappointed with them. The original Raleigh holders are curved to match the radius of the rim. The Kool Stop inserts follow that curve when you press them in. The Fibrax holders are straight so only the ends of the pads contact the rim. I suppose they wear into the curve of the rim in time, but in use, they had nowhere near the bite of the Kool Stops. I still have the Fibrax units sitting in a jar on my workbench. I did however return to Fibrax for my Rudge Sports project. This bike is different. I'm doing my best to stay true to the original design so I wanted the traditional British steel holders with black pads. They came in the mail today. The top of the package has the word "science" in large chrome lettering across the top. It's good to know they aren't relying on rumor and superstition over there. I'll see if their science can match the performance of the very untraditional looking Kool Stop Continentals I've been using on my light roadsters tomorrow.

Good to know you like the Kool Stops and I'm thrilled that FINALLY someone is taking a scientific approach to brake pads! ;) I'll make do with the Fibrax units for the time being. The old pads are so worn I'm afraid they'll disintegrate at any moment and it will be metal on metal. Mind sharing your source for the correct pad holders?

Lawrence_S 07-26-18 05:09 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 20470287)
BSA for sale in Toronto
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...00291784c4.jpg
$95.00, year unknown.

It seems you can't kick a rock in Toronto without discovering an English 3-speed underneath! I guess that's the price to pay for The Sun Never Setting...etc., etc. :) Down here in South Cackalacky, USA a Raleigh is a city in North Cackalacky.

BigChief 07-26-18 07:41 AM


Originally Posted by Lawrence_S (Post 20470313)
Good to know you like the Kool Stops and I'm thrilled that FINALLY someone is taking a scientific approach to brake pads! ;) I'll make do with the Fibrax units for the time being. The old pads are so worn I'm afraid they'll disintegrate at any moment and it will be metal on metal. Mind sharing your source for the correct pad holders?

I still had the original pad holders. The old pads from the 70s were dried out and the bike would barely stop. This was my first bike with rod brakes so the straight Fibrax holders and pads caught me by surprise. I thought they would be curved like the originals. Still, I installed them figuring they would wear in at some point. They were awful. Maybe someday when the radius wore in they would work better, but I decided to send for the salmon Kool Stop inserts. I also set off on a mission to get the best braking possible out of these brakes. I got some very helpful tips from DL-1 riders here on this thread. So now, my DL-1 has respectable, as far as rod brakes go, braking, but they are difficult to set up compared to calipers.

BigChief 07-26-18 07:54 AM


Originally Posted by Cute Boy Horse (Post 20469940)
I believe it's definitely a British made bike. The UK superbe in the 1980s got a luggage rack and mudguard mounted tail light, although I've never seen one with a white safety patch. The late 70s was when they introduced the loop frame version too.

What has me curious is that it's black. Superbes are green, not black... Except I've come across one in perfect condition that was black. That was cable braked, rack and mudguard mounted light too. Usually the other coloured versions were called "Royal Roadster" at that time, not that you'll ever find it in a catalogue...

Does the front mudguard have any sign there was a flap attached? Two rivets near the bottom? Is there a fork lock? The superbe decal on the gearcase isn't right for the time. Could be a lower model tarted up a bit?

I was totally unaware of the loop frame light roadster until now. Nice looking bike. It's a shame they're so rare. The rear carrier is the same design as the Danish use and the chevron transfer on the seat tube is similar also. The Superbe was eliminated from the US catalog after 1975 and even the Sports lost the leather saddle. Raleigh was cost cutting like crazy by the later 70s and like you mentioned, even the white blaze on the rear mudguard was eliminated. This is a very unusual bike.

Doohickie 07-26-18 08:48 AM


Originally Posted by thumpism (Post 20468100)
Not English and not cheap, but a nice example of the Speedster breed in a tall size, despite what he measured. That's pretty unusual, but I know of a rougher one at the local co-op for about a tenth of the price.

https://richmond.craigslist.org/bik/...652627865.html

Schwinn Speedster ~1972 3-speed men - $299 (Glen Allen)


https://images.craigslist.org/00Q0Q_...Qd_600x450.jpg


bicycle type: other
condition: excellent
frame size: 17.5"
make / manufacturer: Schwinn
model name / number: Speedster
serial number: DK612159
wheel size: 26 in
This 1970s Schwinn is in excellent condition and is all original. It has been completely cleaned and lubed. All bearings are in very good condition and the wheels are true. It rides and shifts smoothly. I have more photos and videos if you would like to see them.
call or text 5%4$0-9(0)8-0)7&0)4

Looks like what I did with an old Varsity I came across. I guess you could say I Speedsterized it.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...3dd9fa73be.jpg


and just to stay on topic, my 1966 DL-1
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...536c09a68e.jpg

ollo_ollo 07-26-18 08:54 AM

When the new alternator hubs first came out, they were very expensive, while Dynohubs could still be found cheaply. So I got 2 Dynohubs for $30, built 1 into a new wheel & used it to power a modern Halogen bulbed, Lumotec headlight and SA tail light. It worked well on my commute but I also had 10 and 15 watt battery powered headlights on my bar plus cheap Nashbar red blinkies on the rear to supplement multiple reflective devices.

The DH was more for insurance against no headlight if battery or bulb failed. My hub was still working fine when I sold the bike in 2007 and I had traded the 2nd hub to a co-worker for the French bar and stem now on my Grand Jubile.

Further Dynohub info courtesy of Jobst Brandt after he added a voltage stabilizer to his Halogen light:

Speed (mph) Volts Watts Lumens
8 4.0 0.8 7.4
10 4.8 1.1 15.3
12 5.2 1.3 21.1
14 5.5 1.5 26.4
16 5.8 1.7 32.6
18 6.0 1.8 37.3

BigChief 07-26-18 09:07 AM

OK, so from the nicelite website, they claim it's essential to run the wires in parallel straight from the hub terminals. That would mean no switch. Which they claim is fine because the bulbs last for so many thousands of hours. Nobody here has mentioned totally rewiring their system this way when using LED bulbs. I have a feeling this isn't actually necessary, but like most things Dynohub related, I don't know.

thumpism 07-26-18 09:22 AM


Originally Posted by Doohickie (Post 20470658)
Looks like what I did with an old Varsity I came across. I guess you could say I Speedsterized it.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...3dd9fa73be.jpg

If you did that to a derailleur bike you Suburbanized it. Speedsterizing is generally a Sturmey thang, although it does sound much cooler.
http://www.trfindley.com/flschwinn_1...80/1978_23.jpg

BigChief 07-26-18 09:57 AM


Originally Posted by Doohickie (Post 20470658)
Looks like what I did with an old Varsity I came across. I guess you could say I Speedsterized it.



and just to stay on topic, my 1966 DL-1
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...536c09a68e.jpg

Classic! I love these bikes.

Johno59 07-26-18 10:25 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20470694)
OK, so from the nicelite website, they claim it's essential to run the wires in parallel straight from the hub terminals. That would mean no switch. Which they claim is fine because the bulbs last for so many thousands of hours. Nobody here has mentioned totally rewiring their system this way when using LED bulbs. I have a feeling this isn't actually necessary, but like most things Dynohub related, I don't know.

It is a 3 way switch , all on, all off and front only. I just leave in on , the LED lasts forever. I have 4 other lights on my helmet - the Dynohub is for purely sentimental reasons.

Cute Boy Horse 07-26-18 12:16 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20470537)
I was totally unaware of the loop frame light roadster until now. Nice looking bike. It's a shame they're so rare. The rear carrier is the same design as the Danish use and the chevron transfer on the seat tube is similar also. The Superbe was eliminated from the US catalog after 1975 and even the Sports lost the leather saddle. Raleigh was cost cutting like crazy by the later 70s and like you mentioned, even the white blaze on the rear mudguard was eliminated. This is a very unusual bike.

The only UK superbe I've ever seen with the white bit on the mudguard was a very early one (before 1950), also had a white mudflap on the back. That one is also a mystery. In the UK market lost proper leather saddles some point in the 70s, for vinyl mattress saddles, still branded brooks. Although it was always a "while stocks last" feature anyway.

Erring on the side of this black bike being made in the UK for the European market. Why they had to customize them for each country I can't figure out, considering human beings are roughly the same shape everywhere you go.


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20470694)
OK, so from the nicelite website, they claim it's essential to run the wires in parallel straight from the hub terminals. That would mean no switch. Which they claim is fine because the bulbs last for so many thousands of hours. Nobody here has mentioned totally rewiring their system this way when using LED bulbs. I have a feeling this isn't actually necessary, but like most things Dynohub related, I don't know.

Sounds like a misunderstanding - where does it say that? They have circuits up REGULATORS FOR DYNAMO GENERATORS

What they really don't want you doing is, if you're rectifying it to DC, that you try and use the frame as a ground wire, cos then you've got AC and DC banging back into each other. But if you're not doing that then they don't need wiring up any differently to an ordinary bulb. We've got the advantage with dynohubs because they don't use the frame for the circuit.

The principle of operation is that the D in LED will block the current when it's gone the other direction. Doesn't damage anything, but does throw half the power away, and so flashes. An incandescent light bulb stays hot and so still glows for the short time that AC power takes to drop and switch direction, but a LED has a very strict operating voltage and a very fast reaction time. So Flash Flash Flash Flash.

That's why the ones rated for bike bulbs have to be special, they've got a fancy miniaturized regulator in there so it can go down to 2.5V. Still flashes, but not so much. So then its a matter of making sure the power never drops below 2.5V, and for that sturmey archer accidentally solved it for us in ninteen forty whenever with those battery tubes. Little rectifier circuit in there converts the Dynohub's AC power to DC, so that it can't damage the batteries. Then the batteries are hooked to that in parallel. The magic of electrics is that if you offer a load (a light bulb, motor, etc) two sources of power, it always picks the higher voltage one. So the bulb uses the battery until the dynamo voltage is more, and then switches over automatically. (there is also a separate diode there to make sure the 6V of Dynamo power doesn't defeat the battery's 4.5V and result in 1.5V going backwards and blowing them up, but details, details...)

The practical result is you now have bike lights powered by 3 D Cells, but they last for a couple of years because 90% of the time the dynamo is doing it. You can also do one with rechargables, Raleigh used to advertise that as "Car-Type Lighting". The LED beam is very bright but doesn't extend out more than about 3 meters when aiming at the ground, just a limitation of the old headlight reflectors.

It's a little bit of a project, if you don't want your headlight flashing. The other solution is to leave the wiring alone and just ride faster.

BigChief 07-26-18 01:42 PM

This a quote from this page. "Nicelite bulbs should always be wired in parallel - where each bulb is connected directly to the bicycle generator. Do not connect in series."
Starting to get a headache from this nicelite site. I think I need to leave it alone for a while.
NICELITE SUPER LED LIGHT BULBS


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