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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

nlerner 11-30-20 01:21 PM


Originally Posted by cudak888 (Post 21811065)
Isn't the men's version one of those oddball 1930's models with slack DL-1 geometry on EA3 wheels? Might be worth giving that one a new life.

-Kurt

Well, here's some definitive evidence that these Sports are from the 1930s. Rear hub on the lady's model:
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...6556190874.jpg

That's a K-series hub from 1935 or '37 (stamping makes it hard to tell).

Here's that front stem that I mentioned. Note that the lamp bracket attaches at the stem bolt, rather than as part of the headset. I've only seen this on 1930s models:
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...7df628989e.jpg

Salubrious 11-30-20 02:17 PM

You're going to need some Kroil! But yes, that's a 30's style stem.

cudak888 11-30-20 02:39 PM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 21812166)
Well, here's some definitive evidence that these Sports are from the 1930s. Rear hub on the lady's model:

That's a K-series hub from 1935 or '37 (stamping makes it hard to tell).

Here's that front stem that I mentioned. Note that the lamp bracket attaches at the stem bolt, rather than as part of the headset. I've only seen this on 1930s models:

The headset is also the earlier variant, as are the sidepulls. For some reason, I didn't realize the ladies' model is from the 1930's too at first, as it has the more common frame angles of later models. 1937 Sports "C" Tourist?

-Kurt

Salubrious 11-30-20 02:48 PM

Possibly. I have a 1935 Sports and can confirm it has more slack frame angles.

Johno59 11-30-20 03:39 PM

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d21806ac96.jpg
Before-
1930s Raleigh Sports. In a damp shed never ridden since 1945.

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...45350b8f54.jpg
After,
fitted with Resilion brakes and fixed wheel

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4550d349cc.jpg
Before,
1933 Sports stored since 1945 in damp garage.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5c5b86b1cc.jpg
After,
fitted with pannies for touring , only needed new seat and new rims.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...27cad95950.jpg
Both your bikes are prewar. These bikes are wonderful to work on. The steel is high quality. The rims need replacing after 70 years service. The frames can handle a blowtorch if need be with no ill-effects. The K7 hub is a great find. They are tough but spares are impossible to get, so go easy with the indicator springs.
Check out 'How a Bicycle is Made' on Youtube. Both your models feature. I'm certain these bikes will give more satisfaction than any other your work on.
Lloyds Decals UK do period correct nylon decals as well as the crazy fragile water decals for the purist.
Great find- have fun. Thanks for sharing.

nlerner 11-30-20 03:39 PM

I can confirm that both bikes have EA3--26 x 1 3/8" wheels (with the men's rear, at least, not original) with Dunlop tires all around. Perhaps the originals?!

I find it interesting, too, that while the men's frame certainly has more slack angles than later models, they are still a fair amount more upright than an early 1930s Sports that I had for a while:

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...be8ef72753.jpg

nlerner 11-30-20 03:42 PM


Originally Posted by Johno59 (Post 21812)
Both your bikes are prewar. These bikes are wonderful to work on. The steel is high quality. The rims need replacing after 70 years service. The frames can handle a blowtorch if need be with no ill-effects. The K7 hub is a great find. They are tough but spares are impossible to get, so go easy with the indicator springs.
Check out 'How a Bicycle is Made' on Youtube. Both your models feature. I'm certain these bikes will give more satisfaction than any other your work on.
Lloyds Decals UK do period correct nylon decals as well as the crazy fragile water decals for the purist.
Great find- have fun. Thanks for sharing.

Thanks for those inspiring examples! I was actually able to unscrew the left-side indicator of the K-hub, pull out the right (the indicator is quite rusted to the gear cable) and remove the rear wheel. Interestingly, the chain looks to be in quite good shape. I guess those full chaincases really do keep things tidy!

Johno59 11-30-20 04:37 PM

Seats, chains, indicator chains, rims and tires are all replaceable with new, Don't sweat the little ****. If your gears aren't shifting squirt some WD 40 down the filler and leave for a few days. K7 parts - especially the indicator rods - are impossible to replace. But the good news is the ones you have are made of high quality steel and once freed up can be cleaned and good to go,
BITD the steel had a lot of chromium mixed during the forging so the rust tends to be surface and superficial. After the 1960's steel quality went to crap and everything rusted like hell. But both your bikes are in the sweet zone. So with a bit of patience and TLC nothing will snap and you will have two bikes built in the the 1930s being ridden by your grandkids in the 22nd century.
And it doesn't get better than that!

gster 11-30-20 08:04 PM

Blast from the Past
 
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...1ac7f137cd.jpg
Vintage decals.
Humphry was later absorbed by CCM but did make SA equipped 3 speeds.

Fusilier55 11-30-20 08:30 PM

I bought this '53 Rudge Whitworth last spring, and have been loving it! I do have a question regarding the "deluxe" decals on the forks and seat tube. I haven't seen anything like these on any of the Rudges I have seen (which I admit is a small number). Are any of you familiar with them? Also, are any of you familiar with an online 50s Rudge catalog like the Raleigh one recently posted here?
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...ca48b138a7.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...958338bf7e.jpg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...ca6b77a56a.jpg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c057be70a0.jpg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f3b217a895.jpg

nlerner 11-30-20 09:11 PM

That’s a remarkably well-preserved Rudge! I have the 1956 catalog, which offers some explanation of the “De-Luxe” models:

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...987eb07c1.jpeg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...12859497a.jpeg

Fusilier55 11-30-20 09:30 PM

Thanks for that information, It certainly sounds like my bike, except for the Burgundy part. That being said some areas where the black is more worn do appear burgundy. I believe my bike was restored. I bought it from a very nice Pakistani man in Loudoun County Virginia, who explained that they are still regularly used in Pakistan. He had some other British three speeds mostly Raleighs in various states of completion.

Cheers,

JaccoW 12-01-20 02:35 AM


Originally Posted by Johno59 (Post 21812407)
loyds Decals UK do period correct nylon decals as well as the crazy fragile water decals for the purist.

They have an impressive collection of Reynolds decals too! I think I see virtually all kinds of versions that I haven't seen before.

rustymetal 12-01-20 10:35 AM

Raleigh vs Hercules, Robin Hood, or others
 
I spotted this on Phila CL last night, the seller said the hub has a 71-10 date code so I'm guessing its a '72 model.

https://philadelphia.craigslist.org/...238702588.html

Its an hour drive or so from me here but looks worth checking out.
What was the AMF connection I see on so many Hercules models?
What are the main differences in say a Raleigh Sports and a Hercules like the one on CL?
The rims are Endrick vs Westrick style, and only the Raleigh models have the tubular fork crown, but otherwise they look like the same bike?

Who sold the Hercules models? I remember seeing Raleigh bikes in local bike shops in the 70's, but I don't recall ever seeing Hercules, Robin Hood, or any of the other sister brands back then. Were they sold through department stores?

The stem, bars, brakes, and crank arms on the Hercules models I've seen all carry the Sir Raleigh logo.
I'm seeing some pretty high prices on these lately if they're even remotely clean, the one on CL above looks pretty minty in the pics. The seller sent me a few close ups and it almost looks new. Considering its nearing the 50 year old mark, that alone I suppose is worth something.
There's plenty of well used or neglected models, in all brands but this one really caught my eye.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...ecee644da9.jpg

clubman 12-01-20 10:50 AM

You're correct, it's a Raleigh frame with different options and like crankset, rims, pump fittings, mudguard and fork crowns. AMF bought Raleigh - Hercules bikes and rebranded them again with AMF decals. I can't speak for the US but independent bike shops here in Canada could usually pick whatever brand they wanted from the distributor's catalogues.

It's in great shape but that's top dollar, which is fine as long as it's a turnkey bike with no issues. Personally, I'd hold out for a 50's/early 60's model with more patina and less cost. The chrome and build quality were just that much better as you go back to the war.

gster 12-01-20 12:38 PM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 21813618)
You're correct, it's a Raleigh frame with different options and like crankset, rims, pump fittings, mudguard and fork crowns. AMF bought Raleigh - Hercules bikes and rebranded them again with AMF decals. I can't speak for the US but independent bike shops here in Canada could usually pick whatever brand they wanted from the distributor's catalogues.

It's in great shape but that's top dollar, which is fine as long as it's a turnkey bike with no issues. Personally, I'd hold out for a 50's/early 60's model with more patina and less cost. The chrome and build quality were just that much better as you go back to the war.

I agree with Clubman
Nice bike but overpriced unless all the work's been done
i.e. new tires
repacked bearings
new brake pads etc.
Those rims look really clean

Johno59 12-01-20 01:13 PM

I would avoid these 1970s bikes. Raleigh was fast losing interest in its own bikes leave alone some down - market model with a different badge. Hercules made great bikes and their own hubs, selectors, brakes etc. but like Phillips, Whitworth -Rudge, Sunbeam, BSA etc. that was pre- war and maybe a decade or so later. The pre-war bikes are much better made in every aspect. Hercules had a well-earned reputation for being really tough in an era where bikes were built to last for a 50 years easy, doing 10 thousand miles a year and very little maintenance.
Hold out for a real one.
The real ones look pretty ratty and thus rather cheap to buy but that is no problem the steel is very high quality. The one in your photo looks like a very small frame. One feature of the two 1940s Hercules I had was they used 1 inch tubing for the frames but the quality of the steel made them bomb-proof.

cudak888 12-01-20 04:10 PM


Originally Posted by Johno59 (Post 21813870)
I would avoid these 1970s bikes. Raleigh was fast losing interest in its own bikes leave alone some down - market model with a different badge. Hercules made great bikes and their own hubs, selectors, brakes etc. but like Phillips, Whitworth -Rudge, Sunbeam, BSA etc. that was pre- war and maybe a decade or so later. The pre-war bikes are much better made in every aspect. Hercules had a well-earned reputation for being really tough in an era where bikes were built to last for a 50 years easy, doing 10 thousand miles a year and very little maintenance.
Hold out for a real one.
The real ones look pretty ratty and thus rather cheap to buy but that is no problem the steel is very high quality. The one in your photo looks like a very small frame. One feature of the two 1940s Hercules I had was they used 1 inch tubing for the frames but the quality of the steel made them bomb-proof.

What you say is true, but I wouldn't necessarily avoid all the '70s models. Yes, I've taken to dissing them myself, but only because I've been lucky enough to snag a pair of 1950's Sports. A 1970's model is not bad to start a newcomer on and much more accessible. The later ones also lend themselves to upgrading without the "should I / shouldn't I" dilemma one might have with a 1950's model.

But $300 - that's waaay out of line for a mid-1960's AMF Herc-badged Sports. It's out of line even for a bone-stock 1965 Sports. $150 in minty-minty-minty shape, but not a penny more.

-Kurt

bluesteak 12-01-20 06:23 PM

Philly 3 speeds
 
Iíll join the chorus, $300 is too much for a 70s AMF. There is someone close to philly, that sells rebuilt 3 speeds that look to be nice bikes in that price range. I have a 50ís Hercules listed on Lancaster CL for $250. That is a bike that I actually ride.

rustymetal 12-01-20 10:26 PM

The year doesn't bother me at all, I've looked at a couple dozen bikes lately, there's at least 10 of these listed locally for everywhere from $75 to $750, but each and every one is well used and in need of major restoration. Most are all around the same year. The only older one I've seen was a '57 with an SW rear hub that wouldn't turn.
I've found rusted up rims, missing spokes, and worn or rusted paint.
Regardless of what condition or whether or not its been taken apart and gone through or not, the first thing I do to ALL my bikes is a complete tear down.
I did a five state search and didn't find a single Raleigh built three speed bike in better condition, regardless of year.
The hardest thing to find is good wheels, even bikes I've looked at that were described as being perfect had rusted rims.
I've got a spare stems, bars, seat posts, and cranks, but rims and good original tires are the problem.
I don't think anyone is reproducing original Dunlop or even period correct tires yet. The newer tires are too skinny, they look more like 1 1/4" tires then original the 1 3/8" tires that these came with when new. The best I've been able to do is running Michelin World Tour tires on my two daily riders. I'm not a fan of white wall tires on this type of bike.
There's a 53 Superbe in PA right now with new tires, fair paint, for $725, and its not in a fraction the condition that the Hercules in NJ is in.
While I'd love to find one for $100 in mint condition that doesn't seem likely since I've not found anything cleaner in the last 20 years or so. The last minty clean bike I found was a 1967 Robin Hood but it turned out to have a bad rim. It took me 9 years to find a single perfect rim for that bike.and ended up paying more for the rim than I did for the bike. I missed a set of wheels on eBay over the summer that sold for $200 and only one rim was decent. the other had some pitting.
We had a number of bike shops around here and none carried Hercules, but they seem to be all over lately. There was a dealer who sold Raleigh, and there's a ton of 70's LTD models and plenty of low end road bikes with the occasional Super Course.
There was a mid 70's Raleigh LTD listed nearby for $350, I went to look at it and it was in decent shape but far from perfect. It had been sitting for years in a barn, the paint was ok, the rims had some pitting, and the bars and stem also had rust pitting. I looked at, decided I didn't want to spend that much for a bike plus buy all the new old stock parts it would take to make it perfect again. I called the seller a few days later to see if he'd take less and he said it had just sold.

Here's a few I've watched:

1970-72 a bit rough, similar to the one above but not nearly as clean and over 150 miles away Only $75 but at 12mpg my truck would eat up a good bit of the savings, then I'd still have to deal with finding non-pitted rims and anything else it needs. The I don't answer emails seems a bit odd to me too. Its likely why he still has it after more than a month.
https://lancaster.craigslist.org/bik...220125591.html
Gumwall tires? Missing some decals and ok paint Seat also looks wrong Sold for $699
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-1950-039-s-AMF-Hercules-3-Speed-Bicycle
Non original tires, non original pedals, and looks like a repaint Sold for $695
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1971-Antique-AMF-Hercules-Bicycle-Tourist-Bike-Cruiser
1966, very small frame, mismatched tires, fair paint, $399
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-English-Red-1966-AMF-Hercules-3-Speed-Sturmy-Archer

vintagebicycle 12-01-20 11:52 PM

I picked up a mid 60's Robin Hood in a 23" frame off a guy in south Jersey that had a Hercules probably every bit as clean as that one for $250, it was still listed the other day when I looked. It was dusty, but 100% all original down to the tires from what I could tell.

I had a 21" frame Raleigh Sports built in Taiwan, dated 1972, the chrome was shot but the bike could have been made serviceable if appearance wasn't a concern, I listed it for $75, and it sat for months without an email, I put the price up to $350, and a guy emailed me asking if I'd take $250. He showed up the next day and left with the bike. He was happy to get it. It needed tires, a chain, likely all its cables, and a full re-grease. He said he planned to strip it down and repaint it, and send all the chrome bits out for a re-chrome. He drove down from RI to get it.
Another thing to consider, just because someone is asking a particular price, it don't mean that's what they expect to get for it.
For me, if I don't get something off the price, I'll likely walk away. I don't care if its a $1000 item for $100, and I'm not likely the only one who thinks that way.
I went today with a buddy to look at a camper he wanted. The guy was asking about half of book value, and a fraction of what most were selling for just like it. I could tell the guy was looking to raise cash fast so I asked my buddy if he really wanted it, then I did the bargaining. He was ready to fork over $1200 cash. We left with it for $450 cash with title in hand. A week ago he was ready to buy an identical model for $4,800. The seller had inherited the thing, the neighbors there hated it and were complaining, his wife was on his case about getting it out of the driveway, and he didn't have a truck to move it with. I told him he's lucky he saw it before I did or it would be going in my yard not his.

About four years ago I bought a new in the box late 70's Raleigh Sprite his/hers pair of bikes at a local flea market for $40. The guy had them sitting under the table with no price. It was the end of the day and I noticed the boxes there. Thinking they were just boxes he was using to carry something in, I asked if he still had the bikes, that's when he told me they're both still new in the box. I asked how much he wanted for the pair and he barked out $500 cash. I looked closer at them, and realized they were both bright yellow and said I'd give him half of that if they were any other color. He told me its likely why they won't sell. I walked away and the guy said make an offer, he didn't want to load them up. I told him they'd have to be darn near free in that color. He didn't answer me. I started walking and he hollered out give me $100 for the pair. I just looked back and asked if that included him painting them something other than yellow?
He tells me, "Serious, make me an offer". I told him $20 for the pair figuring it would end the conversation, he said make it $20 each. I handed him a pair of $20 bills and came back with my truck for the bikes. I parted them out online bit by bit, everything sold but the ladies frame. I made money. He was asking $500 for two bikes, I paid $40. He had no clue what they were worth and likely didn't care.
In hindsight I probably should have just kept them whole and sold them but things were selling better on ebay back then in pieces and I was never a fan of the 27" Sprites, especially yellow ones. Now I've got two of them, a brown 1971, and a red 1974 but they were pieced together over the years, both built a 27" three speeds with AW hubs and wide tires on original chrome rims. They've become my travel bikes, and they travel in the back of the camper when I go on vacation. I had a third one, one that I had found as a bare frame and painted black with with earlier Sprite decals and an AW hub with Bluemel fenders but I ran into a guy in Naples, FL that made me an offer on it that I couldn't refuse and I let it go, that was about 15 years ago now. I gathered up the bits to build another but haven't ever gotten around to it.
My daily ride lately, for what little I get to ride this time of year though has been the Robin Hood I got off CL two weeks ago, the thing is in excellent shape but with little gloss left to the paint, and lots of missing decals. They seem to be falling off like dust. The wheels are mint, the chrome is all perfect but the paint needs to be buffed back up and some new decals applied. I have both a new old stock set and a newer self stick type set but can't decide whether or not I want to use the NOS set or just use the easy decals and keep riding it. The tires still say Dunlop on them "Made in England". I bought a pair of those black Michelin World Tour tires off CL and may put them on it and save the original tires. If we get a sunny day. maybe I'll snap a few pics but its been raining off an on for a week now.

adventurepdx 12-02-20 01:27 AM

While the particular Hercules above may be a bit overpriced, I also don't think there's anything bad going with 70's Raleigh bikes. Yes, yes, yes, the 50's ones are "better", but they are also not as easy to find. And like cudak888/Kurt states, there are fewer psychological hurdles in doing stuff to a 70's bike. With the 50's bike, there's the dichotomy of either not touching anything and keeping as much "patina" as possible, or doing the complete exquisite resto. You don't have those neuroses with a 1972 Raleigh Sports.

And while many folks on this thread have no problems finding good older bikes (esp. if you are known as a "bike person" so people bring bikes to you) or live in areas where vintage British three speeds are plentiful, there are many who don't. So paying $300 for a one in decent shape, even if it's not from the desired era, isn't always a bad thing.

My Raleigh Superbe is from 1968. It was in decent shape when I got it, but I modernized it a bit with alloy rims and modern brakes. It's my daily driver and I like it a lot. I owned a 1953 Rudge for a couple years. While it was a great bike, it was too small for me. I'd rather ride a less desirable bike that fits me better vs a more desirable bike that doesn't.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...3f85a2cae0.jpg

Johno59 12-02-20 02:50 AM

The annoying thing about the TI bikes is they are essentially the same frame as BITD. Unfortunately the powers-to-be got cheap and started putting cheap little nasty aluminum/plastic fittings all over the damn bike that were originally brass/bronze/steel ie. cables, outers, adjusting barrels, clamps, GODAMMIT - SPOKES!, NIPPLES! ( sorry my pet hate), indicator chains, lights, drive chains, thumb-shifters , SADDLES!, (I see Brooks management is currently inflicted with a similar madness). As a kid this crap broke your heart as you struggled to keep it going on a frame that was essentially the same as your granddads bike. This short-sighted mindset eventually destroyed the British bike industry. An industry that spanned the globe based on good quality reliable service.
Obviously all of these things can be exchanged for much better new stuff that is cheap to buy or original stuff that is just lying around looking for a frame that is even cheaper!.
Not everyone can do that but if you do get one of these TI bikes and it's clean just make sure you store it out of the rain and regularly wash the winter salt off, keep it oiled and it will give decades of service.

Johno59 12-02-20 03:13 AM

Maroon Rudge
 

Originally Posted by Fusilier55 (Post 21812943)
Thanks for that information, It certainly sounds like my bike, except for the Burgundy part. That being said some areas where the black is more worn do appear burgundy. I believe my bike was restored. I bought it from a very nice Pakistani man in Loudoun County Virginia, who explained that they are still regularly used in Pakistan. He had some other British three speeds mostly Raleighs in various states of completion.

Cheers,

The Rudge De-Lux models in the 1948-49 catalog were only in Burgundy/Maroon.

Fusilier55 12-02-20 06:58 AM


Originally Posted by Johno59 (Post 21814670)
The Rudge De-Lux models in the 1948-49 catalog were only in Burgundy/Maroon.


Yes, I have found the same. Either my bike was not deluxe or it has been repainted. Either of those situations make my decals even more suspect!

Cheers,

cudak888 12-02-20 11:02 AM


Originally Posted by Johno59 (Post 21814666)
The annoying thing about the TI bikes is they are essentially the same frame as BITD. Unfortunately the powers-to-be got cheap and started putting cheap little nasty aluminum/plastic fittings all over the damn bike that were originally brass/bronze/steel ie. cables, outers, adjusting barrels, clamps, GODAMMIT - SPOKES!, NIPPLES! ( sorry my pet hate), indicator chains, lights, drive chains, thumb-shifters , SADDLES!, (I see Brooks management is currently inflicted with a similar madness). As a kid this crap broke your heart as you struggled to keep it going on a frame that was essentially the same as your granddads bike. This short-sighted mindset eventually destroyed the British bike industry. An industry that spanned the globe based on good quality reliable service.
Obviously all of these things can be exchanged for much better new stuff that is cheap to buy or original stuff that is just lying around looking for a frame that is even cheaper!.
Not everyone can do that but if you do get one of these TI bikes and it's clean just make sure you store it out of the rain and regularly wash the winter salt off, keep it oiled and it will give decades of service.

I'd actually say the frames are quite different. Thinner tubing, different lugs, brazing isn't as good as the '50s model, no oiling port on the BB, no chaincase braze-on. By 1978, even the rear brake bridge became a stamped steel Pletscher part, and the pump pegs were deleted. But regardless of variant, they're almost identical in regards to what you can hang off of them (though the '78+ models finally increased the dropouts to 10mm).

The crankset, BB, headset, handlebar and handlebar stem, by comparison, are pretty similar. Same for the Westrick rims from the 1970's - they're impressively strong, galvanized spokes or otherwise. On the other hand, the Endricks from the late 1960's (Sports S22 and secondary brand bikes) are a perfect example of Raleigh cheapening out.

-Kurt

sykerocker 12-02-20 08:50 PM


Originally Posted by cudak888 (Post 21814156)
What you say is true, but I wouldn't necessarily avoid all the '70s models. Yes, I've taken to dissing them myself, but only because I've been lucky enough to snag a pair of 1950's Sports. A 1970's model is not bad to start a newcomer on and much more accessible. The later ones also lend themselves to upgrading without the "should I / shouldn't I" dilemma one might have with a 1950's model.

But $300 - that's waaay out of line for a mid-1960's AMF Herc-badged Sports. It's out of line even for a bone-stock 1965 Sports. $150 in minty-minty-minty shape, but not a penny more.

-Kurt

As someone who sold them new back in the 70's, used an ivory Sports as his daily transportation around Erie, PA for a couple of years, I'll agree with Kurt: Don't diss the 70's Raleighs. Their biggest failing was being out of fashion. They didn't have derailleurs, 10-speeds, drop handlebars and narrow uncomfortable saddles. Which is what the market wanted. Besides, bicycles for adults in the US was a concept that didn't really exist until the early 1970's, so yeah, if you find anything 1969 or earlier, you treasure it.

The last AMF Hercules I bought (this was a good decade ago) was in about "8" condition if you consider that Philadelphia bike a "10". Price: $60.00.

oldspokes 12-03-20 06:06 AM

I own both a 1965 Robin Hood and 1971 Hercules (AMF), and a 1972 Raleigh LTD. The Robin Hood and Hercules are identical, I've had both bikes completely apart, they use the same parts with the exception of the decals and brand on the rims. The Robin Hood rims are marked 'Dunlop' and the Hercules rims are marked Sturmey Archer. The rims on the LTD say Rigida. I also seem to recall that the LTD isn't made in England, without going outside to check I seem to think that was made in Taiwan.

For what ever reason, the Hercules has stayed in nicer shape, the paint is better and the chrome never wore or rusted. The chrome on the Robin Hood isn't 'worn' but it doesn't polish up like the Hercules does. I've owned a few older models, early 50's bikes and the newer bikes are lighter and a bit more nimble feeling for some reason. I never really noticed anything being particularly poorly made on the newer models either. To the best of my knowledge, the hubs were the same from around 1962 or so and on, and the spokes are steel with brass nipples. On the LTD, the shift cable guide has a plastic wheel, but the its likely original, 48 years old or so.
The paint on the Hercules, from 1971, is a lot better than the LTD which is a year newer. So is the chrome, but like I said, I think that bike was made in Taiwan. I've had a few with the Rigida rims over the years, some are clearly stamped, others are barely noticeable. They are identical in every way to the Sturmey Archer branded rims but all had 36 spoke wheels vs the more common 32/40 spoke wheels.

Over the years I've owned Raleigh, Robin Hood, Dunelt, Sunbeam, BSA, Norman, Armstrong, and Phillips bikes, other than minor features here and there, the bikes are all pretty much the same. I prefer the older bikes and I prefer black paint. (I had a red Raleigh, a brown Raleigh, and two green Raleighs, both a red and a silver Robin Hood, a teal blue Phillips, a gold Sunbeam but all others were black. I must also say that the odd chain guards on some early Hercules models are a turn off but I've only had one with the big pointed chrome chainguard.

I had another Robin Hood until last May, I had just taken it out of storage and had it in the back of my truck when I stopped for gas. A guy approached me at the gas station with cash. After telling the guy it wasn't for sale, I gave in when he showed me $400. It wasn't in anywhere close to the condition that bike on Philly CL is in. I had bought that Robin Hood as a spare, it was in pretty nice shape but far from mint or perfect. The tires were too rotted to hold air, the one tube was hanging out of the side and the saddle was cracked in the middle. Unlike my other Robin Hood, that one was a coaster brake three speed model with a 5 - 70 date on the rear hub and the rims both had a good bit of brake wear leaving the rim sides looking rusty and blackened.

JaccoW 12-03-20 06:48 AM

Anyone interested in a 1976/1977 Gazelle Sport Speciaal ladies 3-speed?

The current owner has given it a complete overhaul and has lots of pictures.

http://i.imgur.com/BV1FxBs.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/0vW7yOB.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/XDVZeAs.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/3i5TR5U.jpg

PeterLYoung 12-03-20 09:34 AM

1948 Humber Beeston Clubman
 

Originally Posted by PeterLYoung (Post 21703838)
I have now completed the restoration of this 1948 Humber Beeston Clubman and below are the finished Photos.
I am pleased with how it has turned out and have just written to the original owner who purchased it new in 1948 offering to take to him so he can see how it turned out (I promised to do this when he gave it to me). Can't wait to see his face when he sees it.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2b9f5f383.jpeg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f90595e8f.jpeg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...18539e121.jpeg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e1a0ae8c2.jpeg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...3c90e79a4.jpeg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e8310c762.jpeg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c912e916c.jpeg

UPDATE 3rd December 2020

I invited Frank to visit and see his bike now it was finished. He was over the moon to see it looking so good.
I am pleased to say we have become friends.

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...877277ba6e.jpg
This is Frank with the restored bike he bought new in 1947 and handed it on to me as he had stopped riding.


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