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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

arty dave 05-27-18 05:52 PM


Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln (Post 20362369)
Now I've rebuilt three AW hubs I finally understand the points in Jobst Brandt's old thread criticizing them. I never experienced a hub kicking out of third gear--first and second, yes. But I know I'm not and never was as strong as Brandt. It's not just SA, though: the Nexus 8 from Shimano also slips, which I think is because with the fine spacing between gears the cable adjustment has to be perfect. After riding in the rain, moisture getting into the shift cable housing can throw it off just a little. Shimano warns in the booklet that ships with the hub against standing on the pedals. It is very, very irritating when this occurs. Anyway if anyone hasn't seen this old discussion, it's still available here:

That made me chuckle, thanks :) We are all going to die as these hubs have malicious intent for us dive over the handlebars. I myself have died several times riding with these hubs :) It sounds like he was mashing so hard that he was quite possibly overloading the hub. OK to be fair he is specifically talking about out of the saddle sprinting in 3rd gear...
Maybe I've been lucky with hubs as the ones I've rebuilt have had very little wear...apart from the AB hub that had some broken teeth on a planet pinion...not that the hub seemed to care. I think a lot of the hubs we come across were geared so high that most users wouldn't have shifted into 3rd very often, also reducing wear.

clubman 05-27-18 06:06 PM


Originally Posted by arty dave (Post 20363135)
That made me chuckle, thanks :) We are all going to die as these hubs have malicious intent for us dive over the handlebars.

Mr Brandt had a reputation for defending strong opinions. I've certainly never gone 'arse over teakettle'.

"What may not have happened yet, is that in top gear, even with a perfectly adjusted and serviced hub, the driver can pop out of gear, leaving you free wheeling forward. If you are standing when this occurs, it always causes a summersault. This is why these gears are not used in sports or hard touring."

SirMike1983 05-27-18 07:30 PM

Hot and humid this weekend - ride time with Raleigh and Schwinn 3-speeds: 1958 Raleigh Sports; 1947 Continental and 1941 New World.

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-UyskCmshx...524_190233.jpg

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-T2yvHu-p5...526_144331.jpg

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-3vw-CXG9z...527_145749.jpg

paulb_in_bkln 05-27-18 09:39 PM


Originally Posted by arty dave (Post 20363135)
That made me chuckle, thanks :) We are all going to die as these hubs have malicious intent for us dive over the handlebars. I myself have died several times riding with these hubs :) It sounds like he was mashing so hard that he was quite possibly overloading the hub. OK to be fair he is specifically talking about out of the saddle sprinting in 3rd gear...
Maybe I've been lucky with hubs as the ones I've rebuilt have had very little wear...apart from the AB hub that had some broken teeth on a planet pinion...not that the hub seemed to care. I think a lot of the hubs we come across were geared so high that most users wouldn't have shifted into 3rd very often, also reducing wear.

As a kid I took a tumble when the coaster brake version of the AW (TCW? This was the mid 60s) slipped while in second. (I too might have DIED!--It did hurt, though) That's when I learned about shifter cable adjustment, but I never trusted it in second gear again. I think you're right about not spending much time in top gear. As they come from the factory, it's not very useful. As for the three hubs I've serviced, there were no obvious signs of wear at all. One is not in use yet but the other two are and function perfectly. I presume that before derailleurs took over everything SA did intend some of the hubs in its line to withstand very powerful riders.

paulb_in_bkln 05-27-18 09:42 PM


Originally Posted by SirMike1983 (Post 20363282)
Hot and humid this weekend - ride time with Raleigh and Schwinn 3-speeds: 1958 Raleigh Sports; 1947 Continental and 1941 New World.

Thursday was a warm, blue sky day here and I put about 20 miles on the old/new Rudge riding to the beach. Such a fun bike to ride. There's still some changing things up to come but it still works just great.

BigChief 05-28-18 05:15 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 20361005)
Two of a Kind
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...25827340f4.jpg
On the left, my current favourite, the Glider Bitsa Semi Scorcher. On the right, a 1969 Robin Hood Bitsa Semi Scorcher.
Although these bikes look virtually identical, they are completely different once you get on them.
The Robin Hood is shifting good but I still feel a small wander on the front end. I am warming up to it.
The only possible cause at this point is the tire...
We'll see.
I'll probably use it today for my downtown errands and report back.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...6d13e1c9b5.jpg

It is odd how such similar bikes can feel so different. I really like the Glider. The all black frame, the chainring has a lighter design that looks good on a scorcher, a steel guide wheel and topped off with a B66 saddle. Really nice!

oldveloman 05-28-18 05:49 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20362207)
For some reason, they didn't last long. Today, almost every early 50s English roadster you find will have the originals replaced with either Hunt Wilde or Schwinn grips. On the other hand, 3 speeds from the 60s on typically have their original grips. A late 60s Sports could be beat into the ground but those Dare grips still look like new. I've been trying to research the originals for a project I'm working on and even finding a clear image of early grips is hard to find. I did come up with this one from an eBay ad.

My 1954 BSA 3-speed still has its original rubber grips and allthough there' s some cracks, they still feel okay and non-sticky...
I' d love to keep them in good shape, so can anyone recommend anything to do so ?

Peter

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5fd7d0b736.jpg

BigChief 05-28-18 06:18 AM


Originally Posted by oldveloman (Post 20363760)
My 1954 BSA 3-speed still has its original rubber grips and allthough there' s some cracks, they still feel okay and non-sticky...
I' d love to keep them in good shape, so can anyone recommend anything to do so ?

Peter

Thanks! Another photo for my reference collection. I'd like to hear tips on preserving them too. In case I ever find some. I am noticing that, in general, grips from this period are fatter than the more modern ones. I can see this in the catalog pictures also, but you get very little detail from the old catalog photos.

oldveloman 05-28-18 06:35 AM

Well, here' s another one for your collection :)
Looks like I will have to clean it once more ( using soapy water ), but I do not want to overdo that. Maybe the rubber doesn' t like that too much ?

Peter

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...456a8c6145.jpg

Bicyclz 05-28-18 06:37 AM


Originally Posted by arty dave (Post 20363085)
I was tired last night and read decals instead of details...yes I think a bit of coffee highlight of some kind on the guard could look quite good. What are the letters on the chainring?

I'm just dismantling it actually pre refinish...
So I took a couple of photos.
I've not found much evidence online of the motif, looks like a fish/serpent?
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e0dfa748e2.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...88e220b5e8.jpg



Maker is Diamant Francaise, (Not the other German & Belgian Diamants) who have a long, illustrious history, I recently learnt!!
Chain-wheel is pretty 'normal' Nervar of the period. I'm guessing mid/late 60s, because of the twin rubber pedal type.

This bike has lots of great, small details for me, unseen on familiar English bikes of the period. (Built in dyno lights with individual cable guides for the thin wiring front & back, threading under the mudguards, for example: )
Brake callipers are not very effective though, with non 'standard' fixings....

I've been giving quite a bit of thought to the colour scheme... It's important for me, because I know it'll work well mechanically, but I want it to look 'right' as well.
I want emphasise the lugs, but in a subtle way. The 'Coffee & Cream' combination, in the right shades, does it for me. (Decals unobtainable methinks...)
Detail on the chain guard is 'under consideration' &, as you suggest, it is a consideration on the final result.

Bicyclz 05-28-18 07:00 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20363733)
It is odd how such similar bikes can feel so different. I really like the Glider. The all black frame, the chainring has a lighter design that looks good on a scorcher, a steel guide wheel and topped off with a B66 saddle. Really nice!

You raise an important point here: )
Two outwardly looking similar bikes can ride so differently.

I've had many experiences of this, & sometimes the difference is in a minor adjustment or component.

Always experiment, is my motto now.
Always check the options....

Took me a while to 'get that'.

A wise ex GF did explain it to me once, without me realising it applied generally, not just to GFs & bikes....; )

SirMike1983 05-28-18 11:07 AM

I like John Deere Ultraguard Tire and Rubber Protection spray for cleaning and preserving old rubber parts.

gster 05-28-18 03:40 PM


Originally Posted by SirMike1983 (Post 20364244)
I like John Deere Ultraguard Tire and Rubber Protection spray for cleaning and preserving old rubber parts.

Is this another Raleigh Off brand?
A Premium Bicycle.
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...437ed67674.jpg

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a42bcb3da0.jpg

arty dave 05-28-18 04:24 PM

I visited a bike enthusiast yesterday in search of a longer steel stem for one of my roadsters. He had a nice looking single speed 22" Raleigh DL-1 that had some interesting decals including 'Special' and 'seven-up'. He said it was made in the US, but all US Raleighs were still 'Made in England' as far as I know. Maybe he meant made for the US market. The headbadge was a bit off though - weird shaped heron on a flat badge, and the headtube was a one-piece pressed part. With the tyres being made in Malaysia I wondered when I got home if it was perhaps a Malaysian made Raleigh. Or not a Raleigh at all - I should have taken a photo of it. He really didn't wan't to part with it :(
Although we couldn't find a stem I did come home with an Endrick rimmed roadster front wheel, so that will get what was a parts roadster back on the road, and on to a new owner.

ddeand 05-28-18 05:40 PM

How about some opinions on tire treads. I'm going to be buying four tires for my Sports and for the Sports I'm building for my daughter. Neither of the bikes will be the main bike in the stable, so I've been looking at a couple Kenda models. The basic difference is that one is a smooth, ribbed tread and the other is a more aggressive semi-block tread described as a "hybrid" tire. Any preferences for tread style?

Thanks!

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...cb86daae4a.jpg

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e67b8f7610.jpg

cudak888 05-28-18 05:55 PM


Originally Posted by ddeand (Post 20364835)
How about some opinions on tire treads. I'm going to be buying four tires for my Sports and for the Sports I'm building for my daughter. Neither of the bikes will be the main bike in the stable, so I've been looking at a couple Kenda models. The basic difference is that one is a smooth, ribbed tread and the other is a more aggressive semi-block tread described as a "hybrid" tire. Any preferences for tread style?

Thanks!

I'm a block tread fellow myself, but I've never been keen on gumwalls for anything. Skinwalls yes, whitewalls yes, gumwalls no.

Funny thing, the ISO 590 market (and block treads) are presenting a bit of an issue for me too. The block tread whitewall Duros that I bought back in 2006 for my '51 Sports are no longer available in said block tread (from F&R Lowrider Company, the supplier who carried these). I've been playing around with the idea of solid creme tires too, but I can't hack the Schwalbes if they have reflective sidewalls, which current production seems to have.

There are also these for sale on eBay, but they're in Germany - and just seem to be run-of-the-mill old stock Chinesium:

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...dff1780425.jpg

-Kurt

Mickey2 05-28-18 05:58 PM

I would go for the smooth ribbed pattern on the tyre, no doubt. I aim for summer riding and I havent' had any problem with them in either wet or dry conditions. The rubber and patterns can make a difference though, some are harder and more prone to loose grip under certain condtitions like dry asfalt with sand on top. My Raleigh 3 speed is for easy going rides, no top speeds when turning corners, and issues like this doesn't apply much. You know all these factors best your self :- ) On the Sports, Schwalbe Delta Cruiser has turned out to be a favorite for me, the cream color looks very good them. It's a good tyre, not too expensive either. I'm looking for white brake blocks !

desconhecido 05-28-18 06:18 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 20364648)

Raleigh? I would guess no. The Sports and brethren were lugged and that bike looks like EF. Also, as Sheldon pointed out, the Raleigh made bike had a rear fender mounting point on the dropout that was uncommonly low. The fenders on the Premium don't mount to the dropouts as on Raleighs.

That bike looks a lot like a Schwinn, and Schwinn did make bikes sold under different names before they obtained the market position necessary to sell only through their authoried dealers. Does that look like a Schwinn headset?

edit: Doesn't look like the way Schwinn did the top of the seat stays nor like a typical Schwinn EF fork of the early 50s. Nor does it have the ashtabula crank that one might expect of a Schwinn made department store brand bike. I think my wag of schwinn is wrong.

gster 05-28-18 06:28 PM


Originally Posted by desconhecido (Post 20364897)
Raleigh? I would guess no. The Sports and brethren were lugged and that bike looks like EF. Also, as Sheldon pointed out, the Raleigh made bike had a rear fender mounting point on the dropout that was uncommonly low. The fenders on the Premium don't mount to the dropouts as on Raleighs.

That bike looks a lot like a Schwinn, and Schwinn did make bikes sold under different names before they obtained the market position necessary to sell only through their authoried dealers. Does that look like a Schwinn headset?

Good detective work.

clubman 05-28-18 06:38 PM


Originally Posted by cudak888 (Post 20364860)
I'm a block tread fellow myself, but I've never been keen on gumwalls for anything. Skinwalls yes, whitewalls yes, gumwalls no.

-Kurt

I thought you were a Crager/BF Goodrich man! Welcome back Kurt.

cudak888 05-28-18 07:04 PM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 20364926)
I thought you were a Crager/BF Goodrich man! Welcome back Kurt.

Only on the quarter (or eighths) mile :lol:

Mind, I tend to lean towards the "cars are the problem, bring on the utility cycling" perception for daily life, but that's a discussion for the A&S Rant Department...

FYI, this is what those Duros I installed 12 years ago look like today. Pretty pitiful. Second pic is from 2009 - sure looked better then!

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...7355965d27.jpg




https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d9be3463c2.jpg

I've got to give P.C. Kohler's grips some MASSIVE kudos though - they've held up admirably all these years. And though it looks like the ends are about to crack, they aren't. They're still the most comfortable grips I've ever used after all these years. Much thicker than the 1960's version.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4bfb2d5175.jpg

The tubes inside them are at least 40-50 years old though, and they hold air better than any other tube I know. Rear has two patches on it, no less.

-Kurt

nlerner 05-28-18 08:48 PM

His and her Raleighs on Boston CL for a couple of Benjamins:

https://boston.craigslist.org/bmw/bi...599923689.html

https://images.craigslist.org/00W0W_...xW_600x450.jpg

Note that the lady's is a 5-speed drivetrain with the rad downtube dual shifters.

BigChief 05-29-18 06:00 PM

I'm going to pass along a nice little restoration trick I've found. Back when I was a tool and die maker, I sometimes used a dry lubricant on tooling that made tiny parts and oil would have been to sticky. I used Brownell's Action Magic. It comes in two parts, but I only used the gray powder. It's super fine and burnishes right into the steel and I've found that it offers a considerable amount of rust resistance. Sturmey Archer used a gray finish on some of their parts. Mostly the trigger cases and cable guide wheels. Once this finish rusts, it destroys the rust protection completely. If I used Evapo Rust to clean off the brown rust, it would turn brown again quickly just from the moisture in the air. So once these parts rust, they need a new finish. Action Magic will make a spot on copy of the original gray finish. It will also blend in perfectly with any remaining original finish. I've been using it for restoring old SA trigger shifters. Here, I'm burnishing it onto a rusty guide wheel with a wooden match.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...531f523ace.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...65dce7756e.jpg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...0060c3e955.jpg

gster 05-29-18 07:29 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20366695)
I'm going to pass along a nice little restoration trick I've found. Back when I was a tool and die maker, I sometimes used a dry lubricant on tooling that made tiny parts and oil would have been to sticky. I used Brownell's Action Magic. It comes in two parts, but I only used the gray powder. It's super fine and burnishes right into the steel and I've found that it offers a considerable amount of rust resistance. Sturmey Archer used a gray finish on some of their parts. Mostly the trigger cases and cable guide wheels. Once this finish rusts, it destroys the rust protection completely. If I used Evapo Rust to clean off the brown rust, it would turn brown again quickly just from the moisture in the air. So once these parts rust, they need a new finish. Action Magic will make a spot on copy of the original gray finish. It will also blend in perfectly with any remaining original finish. I've been using it for restoring old SA trigger shifters. Here, I'm burnishing it onto a rusty guide wheel with a wooden match.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...531f523ace.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...65dce7756e.jpg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...0060c3e955.jpg

Another secret tip from Big C!
Keep 'em coming.

paulb_in_bkln 05-30-18 06:41 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20366695)
I'm going to pass along a nice little restoration trick I've found. Back when I was a tool and die maker, I sometimes used a dry lubricant on tooling that made tiny parts and oil would have been to sticky. I used Brownell's Action Magic. It comes in two parts, but I only used the gray powder. It's super fine and burnishes right into the steel and I've found that it offers a considerable amount of rust resistance. Sturmey Archer used a gray finish on some of their parts. Mostly the trigger cases and cable guide wheels. Once this finish rusts, it destroys the rust protection completely. If I used Evapo Rust to clean off the brown rust, it would turn brown again quickly just from the moisture in the air. So once these parts rust, they need a new finish. Action Magic will make a spot on copy of the original gray finish. It will also blend in perfectly with any remaining original finish. I've been using it for restoring old SA trigger shifters. Here, I'm burnishing it onto a rusty guide wheel with a wooden match.

Pretty cool tip. Old axle nuts too, I bet.


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