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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

Salubrious 12-30-14 10:26 AM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 17425330)
Those aren't the original pedals? Also isn't there supposed to be a clamp on cable stop type piece on the chain stay about 5" from dropouts? I don't see one.

Sturmey Archer shift systems usually don't use a cable stop. Well, they have one, the one that stops the cable after it leaves the handlebars and first gets to the frame. But, true to proper English tradition, that is not called a 'cable stop'. Proper British etiquette demands a more proper title. They call it the 'fulcrum clip' :)

Once exiting the fulcrum clip the cable usually only encounters a pulley. The classier setups use a metal pulley, the newer ones are plastic.

I hope you got that bike already... It'll be good bones for a proper 3-speed ride and should be quite charming.

dweenk 12-30-14 11:21 AM

1955 would be about right. The trigger shifter is a GC3A from around 1953-1956. Buy it.

Velocivixen 12-30-14 02:23 PM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 17426094)
Sturmey Archer shift systems usually don't use a cable stop. Well, they have one, the one that stops the cable after it leaves the handlebars and first gets to the frame. But, true to proper English tradition, that is not called a 'cable stop'. Proper British etiquette demands a more proper title. They call it the 'fulcrum clip' :)

Once exiting the fulcrum clip the cable usually only encounters a pulley. The classier setups use a metal pulley, the newer ones are plastic.

I hope you got that bike already... It'll be good bones for a proper 3-speed ride and should be quite charming.

Thanks so much for the clarification on what that part is called - the "fulcrum clip". I've found that it makes things so much easier if you know & use the correct terminology. That way everyone knows what you're referring to. Excellent information.

You're all enablers:thumb:! I made contact with the seller and he's agreed to let me have first "dibs" on it. Likely won't see it today, but perhaps tomorrow or New Year's day (before the Oregon football game). Friday at the latest. I don't have what he wants in trade, and he is somewhat negotiable on the price, but not much.

He said it's a "barn find" with no rust, just grime. He said he's gone over it with a soapy rag to get most of the grime off. He's aired up both tires and one has a slow leak, so as far as he reports, just a tube replacement. He said it shifts and that the lights work. He said I can test ride it, so it's in rideable condition. It's sort of "maroon" at this point because the paint is faded.

OK, so I've done research on the forum and believe the following:

-since it's pre-Raleigh, it has standard, normal (not sure of the terminology) threading for bottom brackets, headset.
-tires should not be a problem. What size of wheels are these? Standard 26" or a different size?
-I'm guessing that, despite the lights "working" they may not put out enough light to be truly useful. Thoughts?

OK, that's it. I see it's got cottered cranks. If I get this bike I will spring for the SA Spanner and likely get a cotter press from bikesmithdesign. OR I might be able to buy an official one at one of the coops.

noglider 12-30-14 02:35 PM

You better get this bike. I'm really excited about it.

I wouldn't want to use the term Standard 26". Those wheels are what were *A* standard but not *THE* standard. They're called 26 x 1-3/8". The bead seat diameter is 590mm, which is the only accurate way of referring to them. It's much bigger than standard MTB size, which is 559mm.

Do not let price be the cause of not getting the bike! If someone else offers $175, you offer $200. This is an extra cool bike.

nlerner 12-30-14 02:42 PM

I'm not as enthused about that Phillips as others seem to be. I've had a couple of pre-Raleigh Phillips 3-speeds, and they were nothing special. Chrome, rims, and components seemed lower end than your basic Raleigh Sports. I also have to say that the color of this one, at least in those CL photos, is very meh. Certainly, take it for a ride and see if you like how it feels. They're heavy as hell, particularly with that rear dynohub, and that saddle won't likely feel comfortable. I suppose the price is appropriate for your market, but seems on the high end, even for Boston. I bought a very nice and all-original (including tires!) 1966 lady's Raleigh Sports on CL a couple of weeks ago for $40, and that included a set of those ginormous double rear baskets. That leaves $110 to buy a very nice modern lighting system!

Salubrious 12-30-14 02:48 PM

The tire size is "26 x 1 3/8", which is different from 26 x 1.375".... When in doubt, 37-590 (Kendas are the most common, at many LBSs, but the Continental City Rides or the Michelins, both of which can run higher pressures, are more fun to ride). Its a traditional 3-speed size. If it were me regardless of condition I would replace the rims; Sun CR-18s are the usual choice as the size is available in the required 32 hole and 40 hole versions for front and rear wheels. I like a 22-tooth cog on the rear to climb hills better, you can get that from Wheelsmith where you are getting the cotterpress. He has spare cotters too. Completists might keep the steel rims, but replacing them is the one place where going from steel to alloy will be immediately noticeable.

The bike is well worth the price, regardless of its tires! That the lights work and the hub shifts is fine- and an indication of how reliable this stuff really is. There is a very good chance that the bulbs are original, but I would consider replacing them with LED replacements, which are readily available.

You will want to service out both the headset and BB bearings and I would service the front hub bearings too. BTW the cooler versions of the front hub have an oil port.

I fixed one of these up for a friend of mine and was amazed at how comfortable the seat was. The one she had was a Lycett.

Velocivixen 12-30-14 03:03 PM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 17426680)
You better get this bike. I'm really excited about it.

I wouldn't want to use the term Standard 26". Those wheels are what were *A* standard but not *THE* standard. They're called 26 x 1-3/8". The bead seat diameter is 590mm, which is the only accurate way of referring to them. It's much bigger than standard MTB size, which is 559mm.

Do not let price be the cause of not getting the bike! If someone else offers $175, you offer $200. This is an extra cool bike.

Great to know. I couldn't remember the term "bead seat diameter", but yes, I suspected that they were not the 26" wheels that I usually think of. So bb threading should be the more common "standard"?
I'm now getting excited because many of you are excited. I don't know enough about 3 speeds to know what/when to get excited about a particular feature, component, etc. So your source of knowledge is very insightful and helpful. I sure do appreciate it.

I called one of the coops in Portland and they do own a cotter press for the shop, and have a supply of various sized cotter pins. In the event I'd want to have them do a bb repack, they charge about $25, which seems alright. I'd likely do it myself, for the "fun" and experience, but it's good to know what's available, and that they don't consider hammer as their cotter press.

So for replacement brake pads I'm thinking Kool Stop "Continental" pads? Keep the original housing? Would I need to get any particular brake or shift cables? If so, and if they're particularly esoteric, any idea where to get?

desconhecido 12-30-14 03:05 PM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 17426718)

[...]
If it were me regardless of condition I would replace the rims; Sun CR-18s are the usual choice as the size is available in the required 32 hole and 40 hole versions for front and rear wheel
[...]

I like the CR 18s on my Sports very much. They are highly polished giving a chrome-like appearance -- very appropriate, I think. They are very good rims for $25 - $30 or so.

Raleighs with 32 spokes in the front and 40 in the rear allowed for using the same spoke lengths on the front and rear. The flange on the dyno-hub left side is bigger, though, so it will probably require 52 of one length and 20 of another -- if it's 40 rear and 32 front.

Velocivixen 12-30-14 04:04 PM

@nierner - I appreciate your insights. It's often easy to get excited about something & end up buying something then realizing you really don't want/like it that much. I'll definitely ride it to see. Regarding the price - Portland, OR market is very high priced or as they say "hot" market for bicycles. So, while in other markets the seller's asking price may seem a little or a lot high, around here it doesn't surprise me. I really haven't been looking, in depth, at 3 speeds so it seems high to me personally, but then it's the market.

I'm not thrilled about the color either. The Raleigh bronze-green is my favorite, however my concern about a Raleigh is the non standard threading, etc. and my parts bin collection is extremely modest and does not include any Raleigh specific components. So, for my first 3 speed plus cottered cranks, this may be a better one to start out on.

I'll keep you posted as to what transpires. I've bookmarked some pages regarding specifics on SA hub adjustment, in particular, the inner workings of this particular hubs, etc.

Salubrious 12-30-14 04:21 PM

^^ Just so you know you are not going to be able to tell much about the bike's ride without giving it some TLC! The old tires are not going to handle or feel right, the brakes won't work right and all the bearings in the bike will be gummed up or dry. You'll just have to trust that British 3-speeds have a following for a reason. Its not a coincidence that this thread is the longest one in the C&V section of this site.

noglider 12-30-14 05:22 PM

There's a good chance you won't need to replace threaded stuff. Just overhaul it and see. Whether it's 24 or 26 tpi, you will find replacements. Generally, the headsets don't wear out. Sometimes the BB's do.

PalmettoUpstate 12-30-14 11:58 PM

Hopper 4 Speed SA
 
Checking back in y'all...

Whaddya think about this one from here in "Flyover Country"?

Vintage Hopper English 4 Speed Road Bike

wahoonc 12-31-14 05:20 AM


Originally Posted by PalmettoUpstate (Post 17428020)
Checking back in y'all...

Whaddya think about this one from here in "Flyover Country"?

Vintage Hopper English 4 Speed Road Bike

That is pretty unusual, hopefully some the archivists will chime in. That is one brand I have never heard of.

I think he may be a bit high on his price given the location.

Aaron :)

Lascauxcaveman 12-31-14 11:25 AM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 17426971)
It's often easy to get excited about something & end up buying something then realizing you really don't want/like it that much.

That'd be the deal breaker for me - "Do I really need to get another bike that I probably won't ride much?"


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 17426971)
Regarding the price - Portland, OR market is very high priced or as they say "hot" market for bicycles.

And that's the flip side of the argument (literally). You should be able to sell it for no loss, perhaps some profit when you decide it just ain't all that. You like messing around with bikes, so, eh, what the hell?

nlerner 12-31-14 03:08 PM

Finished this one up today: 1969-ish Raleigh Superbe (rear hub is dated 1969, front is 1971). It came to me from CL, but needed lots of donor components to get it closer to original. Saddle is an RHM recovered Brooks B.66. I stuck a screw-in LED bulb in the lamp, and it works great. Schwalbe Marathon 590mm tires feel pretty good so far.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-8...0/IMG_2219.JPG

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-p...0/IMG_2220.JPG

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-9...0/IMG_2221.JPG

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-I...0/IMG_2222.JPG

gster 12-31-14 03:27 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Yes, Hercules would be a good choice.
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=425750

Narhay 12-31-14 05:33 PM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 17429787)
Finished this one up today: 1969-ish Raleigh Superbe (rear hub is dated 1969, front is 1971). It came to me from CL, but needed lots of donor components to get it closer to original. Saddle is an RHM recovered Brooks B.66. I stuck a screw-in LED bulb in the lamp, and it works great. Schwalbe Marathon 590mm tires feel pretty good so far.

Nice. Which led bulb did you use? I was riding around in the dark with my incandescent bulb and could hardly tell it was on.

Bandera 12-31-14 05:48 PM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 17429787)
Finished this one up today: 1969-ish Raleigh Superbe (rear hub is dated 1969, front is 1971).

Nicely done.

nlerner 12-31-14 07:02 PM


Originally Posted by Narhay (Post 17430217)
Nice. Which led bulb did you use? I was riding around in the dark with my incandescent bulb and could hardly tell it was on.

The bulb is this one. I also bought a key for the locking fork from this seller.


Originally Posted by Bandera (Post 17430267)
Nicely done.

Thanks!

gna 12-31-14 08:03 PM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 17429787)
Finished this one up today: 1969-ish Raleigh Superbe (rear hub is dated 1969, front is 1971). It came to me from CL, but needed lots of donor components to get it closer to original. Saddle is an RHM recovered Brooks B.66. I stuck a screw-in LED bulb in the lamp, and it works great. Schwalbe Marathon 590mm tires feel pretty good so far.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-8...0/IMG_2219.JPG

Very nice. I've always wanted one but I've never quite been able to swing a deal.

I asked Santa to bring me one for Christmas but there was nothing under the tree but some coal. :(

nlerner 12-31-14 10:05 PM


Originally Posted by gna (Post 17430614)
Very nice. I've always wanted one but I've never quite been able to swing a deal.

I asked Santa to bring me one for Christmas but there was nothing under the tree but some coal. :(

Well, I hope you were able to burn that coal and generate some heat! The Boston area is thick with old 3-speeds of various sorts. It's also thick with bike flippers who think old 3-speeds are worth a small fortune, but every now and then a bargain appears, particularly if one is willing to tinker. I actually bought two different lady's Sports for parts to put on the Superbe.

gna 01-01-15 12:54 AM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 17430860)
The Boston area is thick with old 3-speeds of various sorts. It's also thick with bike flippers who think old 3-speeds are worth a small fortune, but every now and then a bargain appears, particularly if one is willing to tinker.

The Twin Cities, too.

I wanted a bronze green one because my dad had a bronze green Raleigh when I was a kid, and I wanted a Dynohub, but the deals have always fallen through for one reason or another. Now I'm so used to my plain old black Sports, which I've slowly been updating, that I'll keep riding it.

bmc5733946 01-01-15 01:25 PM

nlerner, does your LED bulb flash? I bought an LED bulb and it flashes nicely with the AC from the generator hub, I use something else for a real headlight. I also put an LED in the taillight and it strobes nicely as well.
I have another question for anyone here, when I turned 7yo, 1958, my parents bought me an "English Racer". I was the first kid in our small town with one, I really can't remember much about the bike except that it was red and was a three speed. I can't remember if it had 26in wheels or something smaller and don't remember if the top tube was straight or curved. My question is did Raleigh import some bike small enough for a 7yo in 1958 and if so what model.

Brian

nlerner 01-01-15 01:55 PM


Originally Posted by bmc5733946 (Post 17432091)
nlerner, does your LED bulb flash? I bought an LED bulb and it flashes nicely with the AC from the generator hub, I use something else for a real headlight. I also put an LED in the taillight and it strobes nicely as well.

Oh, yeah, it flashes, thought at speed it's hard to notice, and it is quite bright.


Originally Posted by bmc5733946 (Post 17432091)
I have another question for anyone here, when I turned 7yo, 1958, my parents bought me an "English Racer". I was the first kid in our small town with one, I really can't remember much about the bike except that it was red and was a three speed. I can't remember if it had 26in wheels or something smaller and don't remember if the top tube was straight or curved. My question is did Raleigh import some bike small enough for a 7yo in 1958 and if so what model.

Brian

You can see the 1958 Raleigh UK catalog on the threespeedhub.com site:

http://threespeedhub.com/wp-content/...ni-1958-UK.pdf

A couple of different "junior" models are shown.

Number_6 01-01-15 02:53 PM

My '77 3-speed Sprite is my next project. I believe it's on the 25" Record/Grand Prix frame. It looks to be all there- except for the rear wheel/hub mounting hardware. All I have is the right side nut, a broken indicator nut, and one of the serrated dropout washers. So, I'm getting a new indicator nut, another dropout nut, and a pair of outer serrated washers. What I need to know is what other hardware I need for the rear wheel, like spacers, washers, etc...

Thanks!

Number_6 01-01-15 03:47 PM

Since I'm here...

I came across the Felt Verza Regency. I did a search here, but almost nothing on them. It's new, not C&V, but has anyone tried one? The local shop has them (2012 models) on clearance for $435- down from $700. It has the same frame sizes as a Sports. That's awfully close to the price on a BD/Windsor Oxford Deluxe model...

Here is the link: Verza Regency Men's - Felt Bicycles

bmc5733946 01-01-15 07:21 PM

nlerner, Yes mine will also become a steadier light at speed, I don't frequently ride at that speed, I'm old and slow, hence another battery powered light for lighting the road.
Thank you for the link, I don't believe I've ever come across that site. One of these days my memory will get just a little bit better and I'll remember more, yeah right. Some things are lost forever in the human mind it seems.

Brian

arex 01-01-15 09:11 PM

Vintage Sturmey Archer AG 3 Speed Dynohub 28h Dynamo Hub 1972 Raleigh BSA Bike | eBay

noglider 01-02-15 06:52 PM

@Number_6, I'd be interested in hearing about it if you get it.

Number_6 01-02-15 07:44 PM

@noglider I gave it a cursory look today on my way into work.I was pretty impressed. I have to say on the floor it looks gorgeous. I'm going to go in tomorrow and give it a test ride I have some questions and see how I like it, but I have to say it's a probable purchase. This one is a new 2012, they quit offering them in 2013 So this might be the only chance.it appears. Full report?


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