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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

thumpism 05-16-18 10:03 PM


Originally Posted by rocks in head (Post 20344454)
After reading a little in this thread it's tempting to join the fray... then something like this comes along... mint! I won't do it though. Maybe someday.

Early insulated water bottle. Had one just like it. Actually kept cold water cold longer than a standard bottle did but capacity was half that of a standard bottle, so net negative. So long, bottle.
https://images.craigslist.org/01616_...L7_600x450.jpg

DQRider 05-16-18 11:55 PM


Originally Posted by Kilroy1988 (Post 20344429)
I want to play! Based on that photo, I'm going to guess a Super Course Mk. II.

-Gregory

Good guess :thumb:

Similar to the project I am about to undertake; a first-generation Super Course with a vintage Sturmey Archer AW drivetrain. I am trying to find a good match for the old bronze-green metallic paint right now. Otherwise I'll have to settle for a kind of Hunter or British Racing Green with Almond Creme panels. This bike will also get the bamboo compound curve fenders I bought from Woody's. Should look pretty exotic when I am done. This time I will take enough "before" photos so I can do a proper build thread.

.

BigChief 05-17-18 06:01 AM


Originally Posted by DQRider (Post 20344536)
Good guess :thumb:

Similar to the project I am about to undertake; a first-generation Super Course with a vintage Sturmey Archer AW drivetrain. I am trying to find a good match for the old bronze-green metallic paint right now. Otherwise I'll have to settle for a kind of Hunter or British Racing Green with Almond Creme panels. This bike will also get the bamboo compound curve fenders I bought from Woody's. Should look pretty exotic when I am done. This time I will take enough "before" photos so I can do a proper build thread.

.

Looking forward to seeing this project. Making a IGH vintage style club bike with a Super Course frameset has been a daydream of mine for a long time. Somehow, I ended up going the other way and spend most of my riding time on big roadsters.

DQRider 05-17-18 06:48 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20344670)
Looking forward to seeing this project. Making a IGH vintage style club bike with a Super Course frameset has been a daydream of mine for a long time. Somehow, I ended up going the other way and spend most of my riding time on big roadsters.

Well, I can tell you that my experience with the Raysport Light Roadster build has been positive in all respects. Lightness is an attribute that really shines on long road rides, for obvious reasons. The tighter handling and ease of climbing make up for the slight loss of stability. Having said that, however, I don't think I'll be getting rid of my DL1 any time soon. On some days I just feel like sitting up straight and rolling down the road with dignity. It's almost like a one man parade; and I usually feel underdressed. Where does one get a tophat these days, anyway? :p

Speaking of which, there was an impeccable later model DL1 on this ride. Here's a shot of it at ye olde stone wall in Old Frontenac:

https://i.imgur.com/kUfZPiM.png

While we are on the subject of that iconic wall, here are a few more English classics lounging against the rocks:

https://i.imgur.com/o3KdIEm.png
I really like the looks of this old Hercules.

https://i.imgur.com/7ExY9FH.png
Here's a closeup of his "kit". As the day warmed up, the tweed came off, and where else can you stow it on a bicycle?

https://i.imgur.com/FSPyqB8.png
A matching his-n-hers pair of Raleighs. The lavender scarf is a nice touch...

https://i.imgur.com/NgzYxc2.png
Another "kit shot", this one on an old Phillips.

On Sunday afternoon, I rode with a couple from Iowa; Rick and Lisa Paulos. They were pedaling their Jack Taylor tandem at a respectable pace, and we settled into a mile-eating rhythm that took us on a couple of off-highway excursions. This dirt road was a welcome break from the mad traffic on Highway 61.

https://i.imgur.com/EmW8LS1.png

Here they are on another backroad, paralleling `61.

https://i.imgur.com/KV26NR9.png

I'm getting near the end of my "roll of film", as it were. I'll go through them one more time tonight to see if I've left anything good out. For now, I'll leave you with this:

https://i.imgur.com/02YTq5A.png


.

paulb_in_bkln 05-17-18 07:51 AM


Originally Posted by DQRider (Post 20344731)
Well, I can tell you that my experience with the Raysport Light Roadster build has been positive in all respects. Lightness is an attribute that really shines on long road rides, for obvious reasons. The tighter handling and ease of climbing make up for the slight loss of stability. Having said that, however, I don't think I'll be getting rid of my DL1 any time soon. On some days I just feel like sitting up straight and rolling down the road with dignity. It's almost like a one man parade; and I usually feel underdressed. Where does one get a tophat these days, anyway? :p

Speaking of which, there was an impeccable later model DL1 on this ride. Here's a shot of it at ye olde stone wall in Old Frontenac:

https://i.imgur.com/kUfZPiM.png

While we are on the subject of that iconic wall, here are a few more English classics lounging against the rocks:

https://i.imgur.com/o3KdIEm.png
I really like the looks of this old Hercules.

https://i.imgur.com/7ExY9FH.png
Here's a closeup of his "kit". As the day warmed up, the tweed came off, and where else can you stow it on a bicycle?

https://i.imgur.com/FSPyqB8.png
A nice his-n-hers pair of Raleighs. The lavender scarf is a nice touch...

https://i.imgur.com/NgzYxc2.png
Another "kit shot", this one on an old Phillips.

On Sunday afternoon, I rode with a couple from Iowa; Rick and Lisa Paulos. They were pedaling their Jack Taylor tandem at a respectable pace, and we settled into a mile-eating rhythm that took us on a couple of off-highway excursions. This dirt road was a welcome break from the mad traffic on Highway 61.

https://i.imgur.com/EmW8LS1.png

Here they are on another backroad, paralleling `61.

https://i.imgur.com/KV26NR9.png

I'm getting near the end of my "roll of film", as it were. I'll go through them one more time tonight to see if I've left anything good out. For now, I'll leave you with this:

https://i.imgur.com/02YTq5A.png


.

Man, what a fine day out. So many new bikes look freakish to me. Not that there's anything wrong with that. But a ride composed of bikes made the traditional way, whether diamond or step-thru frames, what a relief on the eyes.

Ballenxj 05-17-18 08:06 AM


Originally Posted by rocks in head (Post 20344454)
... then something like this comes along...

That's a very nice find. I hope someone here gets it.

rocks in head 05-17-18 09:00 AM

It's in the wrong thread... I'll put it in the "are you looking for one of these" Craigslist thread, and maybe someone from here will pick it up.

nlerner 05-17-18 09:01 AM

Speaking of Raleigh SuperCourses retrofitted with IG hubs, I had my '73 SuperCourse out a couple of weekends ago on a group ride in CT. It's fitted with a 5-speed S-A hub (which @Velocivixen thoroughly overhauled for me) with a downtube shifter on the left side and a trigger shifter on the bars. Here it is trailing a couple of pretty fancy custom builds: the blue one is a Brian Chapman and the black one a MAP/Mitch Prior:

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/906/2...f6cb2326_b.jpg
Untitled

Ballenxj 05-17-18 09:06 AM


Originally Posted by rocks in head (Post 20344944)
It's in the wrong thread... I'll put it in the "are you looking for one of these" Craigslist thread, and maybe someone from here will pick it up.

All things considered, I think it was very appropriate here.

Velocivixen 05-17-18 09:11 AM

@nlerner - Hey, so honestly, how did it perform? The hub I overhauled? It was a joy to see the innards of one of those! That photo with the rock wall backdrop is great. Reminds me of what I imagine old time England looks like.

johnnyspaghetti 05-17-18 09:42 AM

This one popped up but I am in Texas won't be back till Sat. What year model does this look to be?

https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/h...588494460.html

https://images.craigslist.org/01616_...jH_600x450.jpg

BigChief 05-17-18 10:10 AM


Originally Posted by johnnyspaghetti (Post 20345037)
This one popped up but I am in Texas won't be back till Sat. What year model does this look to be?

https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/h...588494460.html

https://images.craigslist.org/01616_...jH_600x450.jpg

It has the chainwheel without V brackets, that started sometime in 1973. It still has the plain hockey stick chainguard. The hook style guard first appeared in the 1977 catalog, so I'll guess 1973-1976.
Nice looking bike.

ddeand 05-17-18 11:25 AM

Loose headset update.

I decided to try to shim the top head race - it was pretty loose and slid right out with no effort. I figured I'd try a thin aluminum shim, so I cut a strip from a Coke can. I had to press the race in (not too difficult) and it seemed to take the play out of the headset. No issues on my ride today, so we'll see if it hold up. Thanks for the help everyone. (Wow! That's a big picture!)
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...449bb750c9.jpg

paulb_in_bkln 05-17-18 02:47 PM


Originally Posted by ddeand (Post 20345275)
Loose headset update.

I decided to try to shim the top head race - it was pretty loose and slid right out with no effort. I figured I'd try a thin aluminum shim, so I cut a strip from a Coke can. I had to press the race in (not too difficult) and it seemed to take the play out of the headset. No issues on my ride today, so we'll see if it hold up. Thanks for the help everyone. (Wow! That's a big picture!)

My bet is you have made this problem go away forever.

Salubrious 05-17-18 03:04 PM


Originally Posted by DQRider (Post 20344731)
https://i.imgur.com/FSPyqB8.png
A nice his-n-hers pair of Raleighs. The lavender scarf is a nice touch...
.

The '72 Superbe is mine. Although I have a good number of bikes, I wind up riding this one more than any other. Its my commuter to work and whatever errands, since it has the handy fork lock. Her bike is a 1967 Sprite 5-speed, which worked nicely as last year she had to hike some portions of the route. This year she rode all of it including the Bay City Hill.

BTW the Stockholm bypass is almost exactly the same length as the main route...

BigChief 05-17-18 03:22 PM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 20344947)
Speaking of Raleigh SuperCourses retrofitted with IG hubs, I had my '73 SuperCourse out a couple of weekends ago on a group ride in CT. It's fitted with a 5-speed S-A hub (which @Velocivixen thoroughly overhauled for me) with a downtube shifter on the left side and a trigger shifter on the bars. Here it is trailing a couple of pretty fancy custom builds: the blue one is a Brian Chapman and the black one a MAP/Mitch Prior:

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/906/2...f6cb2326_b.jpg
Untitled

Wow! There's my daydream bike come to life. Great idea using an S5 hub. I would have loved to see pictures of the S5 rebuild. Looks like a super fun ride...I'm inspired!

arty dave 05-17-18 05:11 PM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 20344947)
Speaking of Raleigh SuperCourses retrofitted with IG hubs, I had my '73 SuperCourse out a couple of weekends ago on a group ride in CT. It's fitted with a 5-speed S-A hub (which @Velocivixen thoroughly overhauled for me) with a downtube shifter on the left side and a trigger shifter on the bars. Here it is trailing a couple of pretty fancy custom builds: the blue one is a Brian Chapman and the black one a MAP/Mitch Prior:

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/906/2...f6cb2326_b.jpg
Untitled

Nlerner would you mind taking a closer photo of the left hand side of your S5 routing? It looks tidy. I have an S5 project bike and would like a neater solution to what I've done in the past - too many cables on the handlebars. It's a bit hard for me to see, but it looks like you're running bare cable from the lever to a stop/clip around level with the chainring teeth, then outer to the chromed part of the chainstay? And bare cable on the other side?
And Yes! How did the S5 perform?

Ddeand - great fix with the shim! Simple and easy

Thanks all for posting images from the Lake Pepin tour. I'd like to do this sometime.

nlerner 05-17-18 06:56 PM


Originally Posted by arty dave (Post 20345854)
Nlerner would you mind taking a closer photo of the left hand side of your S5 routing?

Here are some pics of the details:

Left side starts with a Simplex downtube lever:

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/975/4...c7cf3188_b.jpg


Cable is then routed through the existing down-tube cable stop, and housing then goes to a clamp-on chain-stay stop:

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/832/2...d5242a06_b.jpg
Untitled

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/829/4...d2138a74_b.jpg


Drive side routing is pretty much standard along the top tube to a fulcrum stop and then to a cable pulley at the top of the seat tube:

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/979/4...9ea84d96_b.jpg


Cockpit isn't too crowded:

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/828/2...134978ab_b.jpg


The CT ride was fairly hilling and the hub had some difficulties in the low gear under load, but it was manageable.

BigChief 05-17-18 07:05 PM

I see you used a Shimano bell crank. I always wondered if they could be made to work for the S5. How did you get it to hold on the Raleigh threaded axle?

nlerner 05-17-18 07:24 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20345977)
I see you used a Shimano bell crank. I always wondered if they could be made to work for the S5. How did you get it to hold on the Raleigh threaded axle?

I got that one from Mark Stonich/BIkeSmith Design, and he retapped it for Raleigh-specific threading.

arty dave 05-17-18 07:40 PM

Thanks nlerner, great to see the close-ups! I think I'll try this - I was already thinking right side trad bare cable pulley wheel, and left side running down to maybe a pulley wheel near the BB, but I hadn't thought of a downtube shifter. I think it's a neat and tidy set-up you've got, particularly seeing your handlebars. Did you do the chainstay outer to keep the cable a bit cleaner in that area?
I've got the same shimano bell-crank and spring from Mark. How was the hub behaving in low?

nlerner 05-17-18 08:28 PM


Originally Posted by arty dave (Post 20346017)
Thanks nlerner, great to see the close-ups! I think I'll try this - I was already thinking right side trad bare cable pulley wheel, and left side running down to maybe a pulley wheel near the BB, but I hadn't thought of a downtube shifter. I think it's a neat and tidy set-up you've got, particularly seeing your handlebars. Did you do the chainstay outer to keep the cable a bit cleaner in that area?
I've got the same shimano bell-crank and spring from Mark. How was the hub behaving in low?

I'm not sure I understand the first question ("Did you do the chainstay outer to keep the cable a bit cleaner in that area?"). I assume you mean the left-side cable routing--what would an alternative be?

And as I noted above, the hub had some distress in low gear, mostly slipping out of gear under severe load (e.g., climbing a grade greater than 10%). If I shifted up into a higher gear and then back down again, it corrected itself.

BigChief 05-17-18 09:41 PM

I used the traditional 3 speed trigger/ top tube cable stop and top tube guide wheel for the right and a handlebar mounted SunTour power shifter with the cable housing all the way to a seat stay cable stop just above the bell crank. So far, this S5 works flawlessly. I'm very impressed with it. Although 99% of the time I ride with the bell crank disengaged (medium ratio mode)

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...7181bbfe3b.jpg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...3d45f5311a.jpg

arty dave 05-17-18 10:35 PM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 20346101)
I'm not sure I understand the first question ("Did you do the chainstay outer to keep the cable a bit cleaner in that area?"). I assume you mean the left-side cable routing--what would an alternative be?

And as I noted above, the hub had some distress in low gear, mostly slipping out of gear under severe load (e.g., climbing a grade greater than 10%). If I shifted up into a higher gear and then back down again, it corrected itself.

Sorry about that, I wrote from work and I rushed that response, didn't unpack my brain properly and wasn't very clear in my question and description. Yes I was talking about the left side. With 3 and 5 speed shifter routing I've more often seen either bare cable or full housing to a stop/clip near the hub, but I haven't often seen half bare cable half housed cable like you've done - and I don't think there's anything wrong with that, just haven't seen it before. I see now that one reason you may have done it like this is because you have a braze-on cable stop already there on the downtube - one alternative is running bare cable from the downtube shifter to a pulley or cable guide near the BB.
I really like the S5 hubs so I'm always interested in how people set them up.

nlerner 05-18-18 04:24 AM


Originally Posted by arty dave (Post 20346235)
I see now that one reason you may have done it like this is because you have a braze-on cable stop already there on the downtube - one alternative is running bare cable from the downtube shifter to a pulley or cable guide near the BB.
I really like the S5 hubs so I'm always interested in how people set them up.

Yup, thatís exactly why I did it that way. Iíve also set up drive-side gear cables on SuperCourse conversions using the existing chain stay cable stop though it does give you kind of an oblique angle from the stop to the indicator. Still seems to work fine.

paulb_in_bkln 05-18-18 04:33 AM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 20346101)
And as I noted above, the hub had some distress in low gear, mostly slipping out of gear under severe load (e.g., climbing a grade greater than 10%). If I shifted up into a higher gear and then back down again, it corrected itself.

Is this a characteristic of these hubs?

nlerner 05-18-18 04:37 AM


Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln (Post 20346344)
Is this a characteristic of these hubs?

i donít have much experience with S5 hubs, but slipping in lowest gear has been a problem with various 4-speed S-A hubs Iíve ridden (FW and FM).

BigChief 05-18-18 04:52 AM

When I first got this Sprite, it had two stick shifters mounted on the top tube/ full housing cables down the seat stays to stops. When I modified it, I kept the top tube to seat stay routing for the left side. Now that I've had time to think more about it, it would look much cleaner if I had routed the left cable along the down tube to a chain stay stop. 3 cables on the top tube is a bit cluttered looking.
I've only had this one S5, but I have not experienced any problems with it at all. Well...after I got rid of the stick shifters that is.

nlerner 05-18-18 05:59 AM

I figure that a slipping low gear under load on a steep hill is Sturmey Archer’s way of telling me I should walk!

BigChief 05-18-18 06:26 AM

I'll take my Sprite out for my morning ride after chores. There's a steep spot I usually walk. I'll try mashing my way up in low and report back later. It might help determine if slipping is inherent to the design or not. I don't use the hub with the bell crank engaged hardly at all. I love the medium ratio spread with the left side disengaged and have no use at all for the 50% increase top gear.


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