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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

Doohickie 07-26-18 03:10 PM


Originally Posted by thumpism (Post 20470734)
If you did that to a derailleur bike you Suburbanized it. Speedsterizing is generally a Sturmey thang, although it does sound much cooler.
http://www.trfindley.com/flschwinn_1...80/1978_23.jpg

Good point.

I Sturmey-ized a Raleigh Marathon... the derailleur hanger got honked up and couldn't accept a derailleur any longer, so I put a wheel with a S-A 2-speed kickback hub on it. It's a bit more of a Racer than the Varsity I suppose. It's the bike in the foreground.
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...88688af025.jpg

Lawrence_S 07-26-18 06:09 PM


Originally Posted by Cute Boy Horse (Post 20471107)
The only UK superbe I've ever seen with the white bit on the mudguard was a very early one (before 1950), also had a white mudflap on the back. That one is also a mystery. In the UK market lost proper leather saddles some point in the 70s, for vinyl mattress saddles, still branded brooks. Although it was always a "while stocks last" feature anyway.

Erring on the side of this black bike being made in the UK for the European market. Why they had to customize them for each country I can't figure out, considering human beings are roughly the same shape everywhere you go.

From fleabay.uk: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/232859614350

Advertised as a "Ladies raleigh superb [sic], 1980's." Other than being a rod brake frame, there are a number of similarities to my Superbe. Virtually identical decal layout, brazed seat stays, full chain case with stylized Superbe decal. Rolled welded mudguard stays. Looks like this one may have the modern version of a rear dynohub? And black paint but no white flash on the rear mudguard (on closer inspection perhaps a dark green?)

I wonder if mine was just the top-tier loop frame from this period? Perhaps someone got enthusiastic with the white rattle can on that mudguard? Oh, and no evidence of ever having mudflaps on my bike and the generator wire to the rear tailight is routed through the lower down tube.

Here's the photo from the auction listing:

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...72bbb00f57.jpg

DQRider 07-26-18 06:15 PM

From Yesterday's Ride
 
It was a beautiful day down by the Saint Paul waterfront.

https://i.imgur.com/dm2TgPN.png

I rode my Super Course Sturmey-Archer conversion about 40 miles through the parks along the river. This bike draws a lot of attention whenever I stop to photograph it. Kind of like dating a super-model. :p

.

BigChief 07-26-18 06:45 PM


Originally Posted by Lawrence_S (Post 20471726)
From fleabay.uk: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/232859614350

Advertised as a "Ladies raleigh superb [sic], 1980's." Other than being a rod brake frame, there are a number of similarities to my Superbe. Virtually identical decal layout, brazed seat stays, full chain case with stylized Superbe decal. Rolled welded mudguard stays. Looks like this one may have the modern version of a rear dynohub? And black paint but no white flash on the rear mudguard (on closer inspection perhaps a dark green?)

I wonder if mine was just the top-tier loop frame from this period? Perhaps someone got enthusiastic with the white rattle can on that mudguard? Oh, and no evidence of ever having mudflaps on my bike and the generator wire to the rear tailight is routed through the lower down tube.

Here's the photo from the auction listing:

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...72bbb00f57.jpg

On this one, the downtube and seat tube transfers match the Danish versions exactly. I think there is some kind of connection.

Lawrence_S 07-26-18 07:02 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20471778)
On this one, the downtube and seat tube transfers match the Danish versions exactly. I think there is some kind of connection.

I've seen many pics of Danish and Dutch bikes with the rear wheel slide lock, which mine has. My downtube/seat tube decals (or I should say what's left of them) are identical to the fleabay bike. Too many coincidences to be ignored? I am finding more of these loop frames by perusing fleabay.uk. Most are identified as 1980's vintage.

billnuke1 07-26-18 07:40 PM

Visiting old friends...
 
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...bfe0b94fb.jpeg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...01a459ab8.jpeg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...946128fa2.jpeg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...eb5a502df.jpeg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5670e39d2.jpeg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...020a50c12.jpeg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d7d24e961.jpeg

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...11263dd49.jpeg
Lost my storage space last year. Haven’t seen these for awhile. The missing brooks seats are back at my shop being “restored”.
Too many road bike projects started to do these, but I do need to get my rider Superb home. I’ll slot these in as time allows, or I get scorcher fever!
My first tourists, too! New tires and tubes are back at the shop.
These things are not easy to move!

BigChief 07-26-18 08:36 PM

What a nice collection of British steel you got there! Personally, I'd get to one of the DL-1s pretty quick. Life is better when you have one of those big bad boy roadsters ready to roll when the mood strikes. Nothing else like em.

Cute Boy Horse 07-26-18 08:36 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20471294)
This a quote from this page. "Nicelite bulbs should always be wired in parallel - where each bulb is connected directly to the bicycle generator. Do not connect in series."
Starting to get a headache from this nicelite site. I think I need to leave it alone for a while.
NICELITE SUPER LED LIGHT BULBS

Yeah he just means in parallel, not series, he's saying "directly" as in "not through other bulbs/phone chargers/mystery things". That doesn't count a switch. A switch is just a swing bridge for electricity, it's not a destination.


Originally Posted by Lawrence_S (Post 20471726)
From fleabay.uk: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/232859614350

Advertised as a "Ladies raleigh superb [sic], 1980's." Other than being a rod brake frame, there are a number of similarities to my Superbe. Virtually identical decal layout, brazed seat stays, full chain case with stylized Superbe decal. Rolled welded mudguard stays. Looks like this one may have the modern version of a rear dynohub? And black paint but no white flash on the rear mudguard (on closer inspection perhaps a dark green?)

I wonder if mine was just the top-tier loop frame from this period? Perhaps someone got enthusiastic with the white rattle can on that mudguard? Oh, and no evidence of ever having mudflaps on my bike and the generator wire to the rear tailight is routed through the lower down tube.

Here's the photo from the auction listing:

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...72bbb00f57.jpg

It's the standard dark green UK superbe colour. Dynohub is the AG unit that the bike originally came with when the model launched just after the war, never modernized. I have the mens version of this, it's a completely ordinary UK superbe, complete with tattered stump left over from the rubber mudflap that cracks and falls off, and the Brooks vinyl mattress saddle that they want you to forget they ever made.

The UK market bikes went through very very few changes over the decades and most of the ones that did were temporary and reverted. With the exception of the lug pattern being a bit fancier (changed early 60s), the useless rectangular headlight (1979), the decals (once a decade), and the looped crossbar, it is exactly the same as they were at the beginning.

Fixed stays don't mean anything. All 26" Raleighs after WWII have them. Conversely all 28" Raleigh stays are bolted because they were only kept on to market for the police, who only recruited very tall people, so it's still with the ancient 100+ year old design.

Totally run of the mill thing this. Only interesting part is it's still got the saddlebag. Those always vanish.


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20471778)
On this one, the downtube and seat tube transfers match the Danish versions exactly. I think there is some kind of connection.

The connection is they're both made in England but one is changed with a tyre dynamo and worse paint for export :) Probably there is some regulations in Holland, denmark or wherever that says you must have 3W lighting power and a white flash on it's arse. I know germany was like that.

BigChief 07-26-18 08:58 PM

This loop frame light roadster is super rare on this side of the pond. In all my years of fixing old 3 speeds, I have never seen one. Loop frames here are always either ancient pre war bikes or the ladies DL-1L usually from the 70s.

Lawrence_S 07-27-18 04:56 AM


Originally Posted by DQRider (Post 20471737)
It was a beautiful day down by the Saint Paul waterfront.

https://i.imgur.com/dm2TgPN.png

I rode my Super Course Sturmey-Archer conversion about 40 miles through the parks along the river. This bike draws a lot of attention whenever I stop to photograph it. Kind of like dating a super-model. :p

.

Just can't get over how stunning this super mode....uhm....Sturmeyfied Super Course is! Something to aspire to.

Stadjer 07-27-18 05:12 AM


Originally Posted by arty dave (Post 20442184)
The brake section is a standard size, and the shoes are also interchangeable. So whatever small parts you need to work with your bikes rod or cable, you can take from one and put on the other.

To be honest, now I got the new brake and I'm working on it, I start to doubt the interchangeability. I didn't really tighten the nut yet, just by hand, but there's about a 2 mm gap and it's not turning smoothly. It also seem to wobble slightly when turning. The bike is a Gazelle and Gazelle has a habit of doing things a little bit differently often for the sake of beeing different and beeing able to charge more for parts, even in using SA parts. The company has never been as likeable as the bikes.

I guess I'll have to connect the brakeshoes to the old plate, or do you (or somebody else) have a better idea?

BigChief 07-27-18 05:20 AM


Originally Posted by Cute Boy Horse (Post 20471948)
Yeah he just means in parallel, not series, he's saying "directly" as in "not through other bulbs/phone chargers/mystery things". That doesn't count a switch. A switch is just a swing bridge for electricity, it's not a destination.
.

I always thought that if both bulbs share poles on the switch it would be considered series from the switch onward and that parallel would be two separate wires through the whole system. Perhaps I'm wrong. I have a learning curve to go through here.

gster 07-27-18 06:30 AM

Interesting Raleigh Built Glider
Seller says 1967, located in Hamilton. Asking price $168.00 (CDN)
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...200794fdf0.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...7a3d2110c3.jpg

gster 07-27-18 06:46 AM

Another Interesting Bike On Kijiji
This one popped up today in Hamilton and I'm 99.9% sure it's my old Supercycle CCM 3 Speed that I sold to a guy I worked with 5/6 years ago.
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5b32892160.jpg
Originally, it had a very nice 3 stage green paint with a silver undercoat.
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b7f3fdd562.jpg
I rode this one quite hard for a couple of years. A good work/city bike but decided to sell as I wanted to focus on British built bikes.
The transformation from green to red found here:
https://threespeedmania.wordpress.co...an-old-friend/

BigChief 07-27-18 07:22 AM

Short ride this morning. Diddn't last long.Already getting hot and humid out there. Happy to report that I like these scientific Fibrax brake pads. I don't notice a difference between these and the Kool Stops. Nice looking, higher quality plating on the steel parts too. I'd say these are a very credible alternative to Kool Stops if you want a more traditional look. They're stamped "STEEL" on the side. I assume they're meant for steel rims. Glad I tried them.

King Romulus 07-27-18 07:33 AM


Originally Posted by rhm (Post 10453598)
The new Sturmey Archer 5 speed wide range hub has the same ratios as the AW plus a super low and a super high. The gearing is:
1 ----0.62
2-----0.75
3-----1.00
4-----1.33
5-----1.60

I've ridden this about seven miles so far, so I'm not going to present myself as an exert yet! But my initial reaction is that the gears are too far apart. That is, I really miss the close ratios of my Sturmey Archer 8 speed hubs. I'm sure I'll get used to it, though. Photos to follow!

thanks for sharing,

Cute Boy Horse 07-27-18 08:45 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20472312)
I always thought that if both bulbs share poles on the switch it would be considered series from the switch onward and that parallel would be two separate wires through the whole system. Perhaps I'm wrong. I have a learning curve to go through here.

This diagram should help. On the left is a battery. S1 is the switch. LS1 and LS2 are light bulbs.

Series is when things go one thing after the other. Parallel is when they are side by side. The switch does not count because a switch isn't a load, it doesn't consume electricity. A switch is just a wire that you can disconnect easily.

https://s22.postimg.cc/x37cbr4kx/whoopwhopp.png

When two bulbs are in series, in this case 6V bulbs, they have to share the voltage between them. So they get 3V each.

When two bulbs are in parallel, they both get 6V. The power supply just sees one 6V load, that's drawing twice as many amperes.

arty dave 07-27-18 06:48 PM


Originally Posted by Stadjer (Post 20472307)
To be honest, now I got the new brake and I'm working on it, I start to doubt the interchangeability. I didn't really tighten the nut yet, just by hand, but there's about a 2 mm gap and it's not turning smoothly. It also seem to wobble slightly when turning. The bike is a Gazelle and Gazelle has a habit of doing things a little bit differently often for the sake of beeing different and beeing able to charge more for parts, even in using SA parts. The company has never been as likeable as the bikes.

I guess I'll have to connect the brakeshoes to the old plate, or do you (or somebody else) have a better idea?

Ah sorry, I didn't know that Gazelle did their own proprietary parts mixed in with the SA hubs.
If you post some photos we might be able to offer some better advice, but I think you'll be fine to swap around whatever parts you need to get it to work. They're a very simple hub. Maybe tighten it up into place and see if that helps? There is what feels like quite a bit of play and wobbling until the nut is snugged down, so it might be OK. Let us know how you go with it.

BigChief 07-27-18 06:56 PM


Originally Posted by Cute Boy Horse (Post 20472568)
This diagram should help. On the left is a battery. S1 is the switch. LS1 and LS2 are light bulbs.

Series is when things go one thing after the other. Parallel is when they are side by side. The switch does not count because a switch isn't a load, it doesn't consume electricity. A switch is just a wire that you can disconnect easily.

https://s22.postimg.cc/x37cbr4kx/whoopwhopp.png

When two bulbs are in series, in this case 6V bulbs, they have to share the voltage between them. So they get 3V each.

When two bulbs are in parallel, they both get 6V. The power supply just sees one 6V load, that's drawing twice as many amperes.

Thanks for explaining that. I've had to repair wiring before on motorcycles, but it was always one wire and components that were grounded to the frame. The dual wires were confusing me.

Cute Boy Horse 07-27-18 07:13 PM

I just remembered your new Fibrax rod brake pads. Where did you get them? I can only find straight ones, which is a pain because if you don't shave them they tend to rotate and wear unevenly.

I tell you what's soddin awful is those westwood pattern blocks they make in india. I think I've had three where the threads on the bolt stripped, throwing the block into the spokes which then violently rip it apart. Makes a hell of a din.

BigChief 07-27-18 07:24 PM

Speaking of grounding to a frame, the connection from the brass bulb holder to the hub does depend on the steel headlight shell and I have a dodgy connection there. The wires all measure good through the switch, but I loose about half the voltage between the terminal where the hub wire bolts on to the shell and the brass bulb holder. I think I'll temporally tape a wire onto the holder and run it directly to the grounding bolt and see if that gets the 6v .5amp bulb looking any brighter. Yeah, I know, another shot in the dark, but one of these days those lights are going to work the way they are suppose to. I just need to put more time into compiling methods of how not to fix dynohub lights.

BigChief 07-27-18 07:29 PM


Originally Posted by Cute Boy Horse (Post 20473665)
I just remembered your new Fibrax rod brake pads. Where did you get them? I can only find straight ones, which is a pain because if you don't shave them they tend to rotate and wear unevenly.

I tell you what's soddin awful is those westwood pattern blocks they make in india. I think I've had three where the threads on the bolt stripped, throwing the block into the spokes which then violently rip it apart. Makes a hell of a din.

No, these new Fibrax pads I bought were for my Rudge Sports caliper brakes. The funky straight ones I bought a while back for my DL-1 are in a jar on my workbench. They were terrible. The salmon kool stop inserts press right into the curved Raleigh pad holders and follow the curve. A far, far better way to go if you have the original pad holders.

52telecaster 07-27-18 08:00 PM


Originally Posted by DQRider (Post 20471737)
It was a beautiful day down by the Saint Paul waterfront.

https://i.imgur.com/dm2TgPN.png

I rode my Super Course Sturmey-Archer conversion about 40 miles through the parks along the river. This bike draws a lot of attention whenever I stop to photograph it. Kind of like dating a super-model. :p

.

beautiful!

Stadjer 07-28-18 07:13 AM


Originally Posted by arty dave (Post 20473630)
Ah sorry, I didn't know that Gazelle did their own proprietary parts mixed in with the SA hubs.
If you post some photos we might be able to offer some better advice, but I think you'll be fine to swap around whatever parts you need to get it to work. They're a very simple hub. Maybe tighten it up into place and see if that helps? There is what feels like quite a bit of play and wobbling until the nut is snugged down, so it might be OK. Let us know how you go with it.

I did know that so I'm the one that should apologize. But I don't believe this is unique for the Gazelle versions, I believe SA has made those brake plate/ drum covers that sit inside the hub, and ones that go over the hub. The ones to go over the hub have a curved edge, and those hubs have a little ridge that fits inside.

For now I'll illustrate it with internet pictures, both from Gazelles:

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...7d8e8fa04a.jpg


https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...08e84402d4.jpg

So one brake plate is a kind of cup that sits on top and the other is flat and is recessed inside. I fear that for the brake plate to it's job protecting the brakes from the weather, I need the hub and the brake plate to match. My hub is designed for the recessed brake plate, and has no ridge to fit inside the curve of the cup brake plate. I didn't see any brakes with recessed brake plate on sale anywhere.

So'll probably have to invent and make a tool to hold the nut in place too, so I can undo the brake from the brake plate and screw it onto the old plate.

BigChief 07-28-18 07:16 AM

Just to report that if you should ever need to replace the Dynohub lamp wire that comes from the center contact on the bulb holder, it's not a problem. I was half expecting some poor design that would fall apart if I tried soldering it. But no, it's just a hollow rivet that holds the center contact on the masonite. No problem to bend back the tabs, remove the masonite and solder on a new wire. I also had a poor connection from the bulb holder through the headlight shell to the pole on the switch. I bypassed this by running a wire from the fork that clips onto the bulb holder directly to the pole on the switch. Now I have good continuity through the whole system and am ready to send away for some LED bulbs.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...02e23ce8e5.jpg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d8d18ab036.jpg

Johno59 07-28-18 07:49 AM

Old school wiring
 
The older Lucas lamps did exactly that. They had a wire directly soldered to the threaded bulb mount socket , rather than relying on continuity thru the lamp's ancillary componentry.

Lawrence_S 07-28-18 08:07 AM

Older Downtube-Shift DL-1L on Charleston SC Craigslist
 
https://charleston.craigslist.org/bi...655230203.html

Raleigh 3-Speeds seem to be coming out of the woodwork in Charleston. Here's an intact step-through downtube shift DL-1 with a massive front headlamp I'm not familiar with powered by a front Dynohub. Military/police model? I'm slowly learning about these wee beasties.

Too rich for my blood and probably should be owned by someone who knows what they have and what to do with it.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...62055c2ce8.jpg

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...1ef4a90fe8.jpg

Cute Boy Horse 07-28-18 08:14 AM

Police model would have an X-frame (until they stopped doing those), never a "girls" bike. That headlight looks crazy.


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20473693)
No, these new Fibrax pads I bought were for my Rudge Sports caliper brakes. The funky straight ones I bought a while back for my DL-1 are in a jar on my workbench. They were terrible. The salmon kool stop inserts press right into the curved Raleigh pad holders and follow the curve. A far, far better way to go if you have the original pad holders.

I've never, ever seen curved rod brake block holders, on any age of bike or in any condition. I thought you'd found something aftermarket. Pity.

RobbieTunes 07-28-18 08:42 AM

OK, a few questions.....
 
I am a complete newb when it comes to an old 3-speed, but I've picked up a 1959 Raleigh Sports, and I've decided to give maybe 100 hours to it.

It's burgundy with white trim on the fenders, has a dyno front hub and a headlight and tail light. Grips, pedals, chain, wiring, etc are all original. I'm sure the tires/tubes are not.

My plan is a painstaking tear-down, clean, and reassemble without touchup or replacement of items...UNLESS

1-Will it hurt the bike's "cache" if I run new wires? The older ones, to be frank, look a little brittle. It's preferable to use the dyno (since it's working) but the original off-white wiring (maybe it was white) looks like, well, 59 years old. On the same topic, I'd like to try a regulator and LED bulb replacement. Bad or not?

2-I"m a bit worried about the grips. They're old, and worn shiny and hard. A proper treatment of the handlebars, etc would be to remove them, but surely this may cause damage. How "bad" is it to replace them? I'm a Schwinn "root beer" grip fan, and would love to use some of those.

3-Galvanized spokes are in good shape, but the bike will clean up pretty well, and stainless would look so good. Is this a bad thing?

4-The original B66 is on it. Pretty stiff, and a couple tears near the front bolt. No doubt I can Proof it and make it more flexible, but worries about it's ability to be oiled and then ridden remain. Of course, I can get a new B66 but this is a '59 and I'd prefer an rhm re-cover if anything, but would prefer not to have to go that route if possible. Thoughts?

I know there are purists here, and I rarely go that route. On this bike, though, I'd kind of like to stay more "true" than all-day functional. My plan is to restore it, get some tweed, and go have a fun day somewhere, somehow.

nlerner 07-28-18 09:03 AM

Rob, those all sound like reasonable fixes to me in order to get the bike on the road--well, except for those Schwinn grips: sacrilege!


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