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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

gster 08-18-18 08:07 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20513209)
wow, your parts are so well organized. At least I recently migrated mine from falling apart cardboard boxes into plastic bins. Good deal at 20 bucks. I see you got a good pair of single bolt levers out of it. Nice. These always come in handy for fixing an otherwise nice mid 70s Raleighs with auto those adjust disasters.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b8b68c5cde.jpg

Yes.
Many of the SA equipped CCM 3 speeds and Gliders came with the double bolt levers that we both dislike.

BigChief 08-18-18 10:06 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 20513298)
Scorchers Be Gone!
A few bikes that were set up as true Scorchers have reverted to a Semi Scorcher state.
Although I really like the look, my back and neck didn't agree.
They'll actually get ridden now.
1961 Superbe.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a4e4eb3d15.jpg
Before.
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...7565ca215f.jpg
After.
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...7dc4fa4240.jpg
Heron eye stamp indicates pre 1961.

I think maybe we should still call them scorchers. It's such a great word. I'm glad we revived it here at BF. Which reminds me. Reading through old Raleigh catalogs online I found another long forgotten word. Well, except for maybe @noglider, to describe smaller components attached to their bicycles. "fitment" . Fitment definition: an accessory attached to an assembly of parts. I think I might start using it. Yes, Raleigh did do an excellent job plating their chrome fitments.

Buellster 08-18-18 10:53 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20513209)
wow, your parts are so well organized. At least I recently migrated mine from falling apart cardboard boxes into plastic bins. Good deal at 20 bucks. I see you got a good pair of single bolt levers out of it. Nice. These always come in handy for fixing an otherwise nice mid 70s Raleighs with auto those adjust disasters.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b8b68c5cde.jpg

I do believe this is the exact same model as my sports. Mine is a 70-71.
It rides beautifully. Of all my vintage bikes it has actually needed the least work despite being the oldest.
What's the auto adjusting disaster you speak of?

BigChief 08-18-18 11:38 AM

Raleigh had been using the same brake lever design since the 1930s. I think they are elegant and one of the fitments I appreciate on old Raleighs. But by 1972, the Raleigh bad ideas department got very busy solving problems the bikes didn't have while ignoring other issues that should have been addressed. This bike doesn't have a date stamp, but I figure it from 1973 or so. At that point the classic brake lever design was replaced by a cheap looking pressed sheet steel lever with a clunky widget hung on the end with a wire bale that contained a ratchet that would automatically readjust your brake lever too far out as the pads wore. By now you're guessing that I'm not fond of them. I bought this 73 Sports on the cheap because the hub didn't work. I repaired everything and replaced the goofy levers with a pair of earlier ones I had. Except for the seat, it's a pretty nice ride now.

browngw 08-18-18 03:48 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 20513254)
Raleigh Price Structure
I've often wondered how Raleigh priced their various lines of bikes and what were the differences
in the quality of components that would make a Robin Hood, for example, less expensive than a
a Raleigh branded bike.
I found a "spotty" weld on my Robin Hood.
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d581bd374b.jpg
Perhaps, as parts came off the line, seconds (imperfect) were set aside to be used on the lesser brands.
Robin Hoods, Philips, Triumphs, Gliders etc.
Just a thought.

I don't think that seconds or imperfects would knowingly be used. I am though, thinking that large North American distributors requested models built to a price. I have a 72 Sports that is unlike others with cables pedals grips etc yet are obviously original to the bike. American catalogs seldom accurately depict Canadian import models. A recent Holdsworth I had was purchased in batches for Bloor Cycle and actually had some upgrades from the British model. Who knows. A friend of mine was in the bike distribution business said this happened a lot. A single change like a saddle would greatly change the profit.

thumpism 08-18-18 06:57 PM


Originally Posted by mtb_addict (Post 20513372)
how strong is the Sport step thru frame?

the seat stays are so skinny.
do u think a heavy guy on a small frame would stress thie frame?
i mean frequent riding on bumpy dirt poorly maintained roads.

what is the likely failure mode?

I have a 23" ladies' Sports in addition to my 23" men's and expect to be riding it when I can no longer swing a leg over the men's frame, and I hope to be lighter than 180 when I do that but am not holding out hope and I have no worries at all about the frame's ability to carry my weight, no matter what it might reasonably become. I have never seen a frame failure on a Sports, so don't know what else to tell you about that. The more widely exposed and traveled among us might be able to tell you differently. For the riding conditions you describe I'd realistically be more concerned about the wheels. If you're worried about the frame pick up a spare; that'll guarantee that you never need it.

ddeand 08-18-18 07:23 PM


Originally Posted by ddeand (Post 20510040)
Quick evaluation, please. What is the most you壇 pay for this bike based solely on the picture?

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...255610a00.jpeg

Thanks for the responses. It looks like I知 getting it for $60. I値l post photos when I have it in hand.

BigChief 08-18-18 09:35 PM


Originally Posted by ddeand (Post 20514198)


Thanks for the responses. It looks like I知 getting it for $60. I値l post photos when I have it in hand.

That is a super deal! All there except the Brooks saddle. Great looking chrome. I don't mind the dulling of the paint, but depending how deep the oxidation goes, it might gloss up to some degree with a polishing compound. I've had some bikes like this that shined up almost new looking and others that didn't respond much at all. You never know until you try, but even a wax will bring back some luster. Great find!!

ddeand 08-18-18 09:47 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20514398)
That is a super deal! All there except the Brooks saddle. Great looking chrome. I don't mind the dulling of the paint, but depending how deep the oxidation goes, it might gloss up to some degree with a polishing compound. I've had some bikes like this that shined up almost new looking and others that didn't respond much at all. You never know until you try, but even a wax will bring back some luster. Great find!!

Thanks! We値l see what is there when I get it on Monday. Just from the picture, I know I値l be using a bit of aluminum foil and Tri-Flow on the chrome. On paint, I usually use 3-M Perfect-It II followed by Finesse-It II and the polish. I just hope there痴 no rust.. should be an interesting project.

gster 08-19-18 06:52 AM


Originally Posted by ddeand (Post 20514198)


Thanks for the responses. It looks like I知 getting it for $60. I値l post photos when I have it in hand.

That's a great deal.

gster 08-19-18 06:57 AM

Here's a Triumph 3 Speed in Toronto for $100.00, year unknown
That's the asking price and it's been listed a while.
Restore, scorcher or parts bike.
They're still out there.
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2daf5302fb.jpg

noglider 08-19-18 07:20 AM

@gster: :lol: Although most of the people I see astride old English bikes are extremely ordinary people. You and I think the bikes are stylish, but around here, people think they're practical. They sell for high prices, but the thieves don't mess with them.

noglider 08-19-18 07:23 AM


Originally Posted by mtb_addict (Post 20513372)
how strong is the Sport step thru frame?

the seat stays are so skinny.
do u think a heavy guy on a small frame would stress thie frame?
i mean frequent riding on bumpy dirt poorly maintained roads.

what is the likely failure mode?

Frame breakage from fatigue is very rare. I'd bet you wouldn't break one, but I don't know how much you weigh. But you might find that it's too flexible. Try one and let us know.

BigChief 08-19-18 07:56 AM


Originally Posted by ddeand (Post 20514418)


Thanks! We値l see what is there when I get it on Monday. Just from the picture, I know I値l be using a bit of aluminum foil and Tri-Flow on the chrome. On paint, I usually use 3-M Perfect-It II followed by Finesse-It II and the polish. I just hope there痴 no rust.. should be an interesting project.

One thing I notice on this DL-1 is that the brakes look set up well. They sure weren't on mine. First, I see that there is plenty of travel in the levers. There needs to be because of the flex in the system. I think there needs to be around 3" between the lever end and the grip to make the most of the power from your hand. For the same reason, the pads need to be set close to the rim. No room for wasted travel. Also, the pads are attached leading the stirrup. I've experimented with both leading and trailing and now believe there is some advantage to leading. I like this bike. Looking forward to seeing this project come along.

ascherer 08-19-18 07:57 AM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 20514747)
@gsterThey sell for high prices, but the thieves don't mess with them.

...for the most part :twitchy: Lesson learned, sturdy locks are still required.

gster 08-19-18 10:06 AM


Originally Posted by ascherer (Post 20514780)
...for the most part :twitchy: Lesson learned, sturdy locks are still required.

Yes, I've lost 2 bikes in the last few years
1- A single speed Glider thrown together for a visiting friend to use.
Stolen before he got here. My fault. left unlocked behind a bar while I sat
on the patio....
2-A 3 speed Dunelt. Shed door hoofed in and bike stolen.
I suspect it was more a case of wanting to smash my door in and showing off than actually
wanting the bike.

BigChief 08-19-18 10:31 AM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 20514747)
@gster: :lol: Although most of the people I see astride old English bikes are extremely ordinary people. You and I think the bikes are stylish, but around here, people think they're practical. They sell for high prices, but the thieves don't mess with them.

Practical? Darn, and here I am thinking I was cutting edge for once in my life.

Buellster 08-19-18 06:59 PM

Looking for a parts bike I can across this barn find.
They only want $100 dollars and it strikes me the seat and front dyno(is that a dyno hub?) Are worth that alone.
My sports would love to have that front dyno on it if it is a dyno hub and if not my other bike could use a good dyno light too.
Seat looks like it could clean up decently.
AND it would have all to most of the bits and pieces I'm missing for my 4 speed project. I.E. the fulcrum clip, cog, spacers, nuts etc.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8834996f78.jpg

Looks to be in good shape
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...876e17ff5d.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...3499c9b9f1.jpg

Some definite patina but i dont need the frame. It would be nice to keep the bottom bracket and associated parts.

JohnDThompson 08-19-18 07:41 PM


Originally Posted by Buellster (Post 20515804)
Looking for a parts bike I can across this barn find.
They only want $100 dollars and it strikes me the seat and front dyno(is that a dyno hub?) Are worth that alone.
My sports would love to have that front dyno on it if it is a dyno hub and if not my other bike could use a good dyno light too.
Seat looks like it could clean up decently.
AND it would have all to most of the bits and pieces I'm missing for my 4 speed project.

Looks to be a Dynohub. Whether it's still in working condition is another matter. Hook up a voltmeter on the terminals and see what happens when you spin the wheel. N.B. if/when you repack the hub, take care not to separate the magnets from the armature; these aren't modern rare-earth magnets and their strength will rapidly degrade if you separate them.

Saddle and other hardware may also be salvageable.

BigChief 08-19-18 08:26 PM

I think I see a guaranteed English lightweight transfer on the seat tube. That and the frame mounted guide wheel would put the bike in the late 50s. The dyno hub would be 32H. AW hub 40H. I love the saddle. For me, these B66 saddles are perfect for roadsters, but you always have to wonder how much life is left in a saddle this old. It looks pretty good in the grainy photo. It would be nice for your green Sports.1950s AW hubs are always worth having. The rear mudguard looks cut off, non Raleigh reflector. It has it's original Sir Raleigh alloy kickstand. 21" frames do make for good scorcher builds. I think I prefer them to 23" frames. Pretty good bike, but I'd try to talk down the price considering the condition unless you think you can get some mileage out of the Brooks.

Buellster 08-19-18 10:14 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20516004)
I think I see a guaranteed English lightweight transfer on the seat tube. That and the frame mounted guide wheel would put the bike in the late 50s. The dyno hub would be 32H. AW hub 40H. I love the saddle. For me, these B66 saddles are perfect for roadsters, but you always have to wonder how much life is left in a saddle this old. It looks pretty good in the grainy photo. It would be nice for your green Sports.1950s AW hubs are always worth having. The rear mudguard looks cut off, non Raleigh reflector. It has it's original Sir Raleigh alloy kickstand. 21" frames do make for good scorcher builds. I think I prefer them to 23" frames. Pretty good bike, but I'd try to talk down the price considering the condition unless you think you can get some mileage out of the Brooks.

That was my thought as well. Price feels high. What would you pay for it? If the seat is too weathered for use this bike loses a lot of value to me.

I'm also eyeballing this step through. Bits and pieces I need, frame pump which I'm missing and a rear seat bag.
The seat on this one is of no use and it's a later model. The big perk is it's up for $75 so I could likley get it for closer to 50.
Would it be worth even that though?
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8291f85cb4.jpg

desconhecido 08-19-18 11:35 PM


Originally Posted by Buellster (Post 20515804)
Looking for a parts bike I can across this barn find.
They only want $100 dollars and it strikes me the seat and front dyno(is that a dyno hub?) Are worth that alone.
My sports would love to have that front dyno on it if it is a dyno hub and if not my other bike could use a good dyno light too.
Seat looks like it could clean up decently.
AND it would have all to most of the bits and pieces I'm missing for my 4 speed project. I.E. the fulcrum clip, cog, spacers, nuts etc.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8834996f78.jpg

Looks to be in good shape
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...876e17ff5d.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...3499c9b9f1.jpg

Some definite patina but i dont need the frame. It would be nice to keep the bottom bracket and associated parts.

That black bike with the white fenders looks very interesting considering the dynohub and the leather saddle if the saddle is salvageable. Check that the saddle is not dried out and ready to tear and also the leather around the rivits to make sure that the leather is not parting as a result of the stress at those points. The top tube fulcrum stop will be 25.4 mm which will fit your purpose. It looks like the pulley may fit a brazed on fixture which is 50s/eqarly60sstyle, I think, and may not be usefull. If the hub is about 53 or later, it will likely have a three prong sprocket and the snap ring and spacers that you need,

Evaluate this bike carefully before you part it out. It may be a complete and restorable example of a mid or early 50s bike, or early 60s, that is worthy of restoration/repair/"scorcherizing" .for its own sake.

If I had a chance at that bike, I might take it at $100 or a little less, but it looks like a real interesting prospect. If I were in Portland and you had that bike, Id trade you all the stuff you need (except for the shifter) and a couple bucks to get blacky.

BigChief 08-20-18 04:28 AM

I tend to be pre 1965 oriented, ot better yet, pre 1960 when it comes to Raleighs. So when I look at this mid 70s stepthrough I see a bunch of parts I'll never use. Auto adjust brake levers, brake calipers missing their adjuster screws, 36H front and rear wheels 46T crank without V brackets, plastic covered shifter, plastic guide wheel, plastic cable stop, 3 point chainguard, rear mudguard with 2 pairs of stays, huge reflector and a useless seat. I do covet those German ESGE alloy kickstands! I use those on all my bikes, no matter the year. The ones made for Raleighs are especially good.

noglider 08-20-18 07:34 AM


Originally Posted by mtb_addict (Post 20516549)
I was just wondering...because Sheldon Brown website says that the Sport is a light duty version of the Roadster. So that implies, it's been reduced to save some weight.
I guess if I want to go anywhere type of bicycle...I probably would want to choose the Mens Roadster.

That's a weird comment by Saint Sheldon. You might infer that a person above a certain weight needs a frame as heavy as the Roadster, but I wouldn't infer that. Most people ride lighter frames than the Sports. Maybe you should tell us how much you weigh to get better advice. If you're over 350 lbs, then I don't know what you need.

gster 08-20-18 08:05 AM

OT
I bought this crazy, unplayable, home made guitar last week for $20.00 with the
intention of parting it out...
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4d9335635d.jpg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2dcb00bfb8.jpg
I decided to see if I could make it playable and spent an hour shimming the neck and fixing the jack.
Everything seemed to work but the bridge was badly out of place..
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...284a72d5b3.jpg
A piece of string can be very helpful.
By this point the guitar had started to grow on me and I could only imagine the hours that
were put into this project by the original builder.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e71ff415a9.jpg
The dowel plugs indicate how far off the original bridge placement was.
I replaced the stop (also in the wrong spot) with a trapeze I had
and it's now a very nice instrument to play.
Action is great and stays in tune.
Still ugly....
or is it?
Total cost to fix:
$2.00 for a piece of dowel.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...fb5e711332.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4166b83ce8.jpg

rhm 08-20-18 08:33 AM

@gster, my vote is "still ugly," but who cares what I think, right?

I wonder if the body wasn't made for a shorter neck, perhaps something like a mandolin (the shape suggests mandolin to my eye). It's pretty hard to get a bridge placement that wrong.

rhm 08-20-18 08:44 AM


Originally Posted by mtb_addict (Post 20516549)
I was just wondering...because Sheldon Brown website says that the Sport is a light duty version of the Roadster. So that implies, it's been reduced to save some weight....

I believe he's right, but the Sports is a very old design. The design of the 'roadster' goes back to the early part of the 20th century and hasn't changed in a century (not an exaggeration), while the Sports is a modernized and updated design, I think from about 1930. The early ones often came with a drop bar, but there is very little difference between a 1935 Sports and a 1985 one.

So yes, they did reduce the weight somewhat... but they haven't done anything to reduce the weight since the 1930's.

gster 08-20-18 09:01 AM


Originally Posted by rhm (Post 20516666)
@gster, my vote is "still ugly," but who cares what I think, right?

I wonder if the body wasn't made for a shorter neck, perhaps something like a mandolin (the shape suggests mandolin to my eye). It's pretty hard to get a bridge placement that wrong.

I think the guy just rushed the final assembly and then when it couldn't be played
just said "f#ck it" and threw it in the closet.
All the hardware is Epiphone and the neck is quite nice as well.

thumpism 08-20-18 09:16 AM


Originally Posted by mtb_addict (Post 20516549)
I was just wondering...because Sheldon Brown website says that the Sport is a light duty version of the Roadster. So that implies, it's been reduced to save some weight.
I guess if I want to go anywhere type of bicycle...I probably would want to choose the Mens Roadster.
But I've not seen actually ever seen a Roadster around here.

I suspect Sheldon meant the rod-brake 28" wheel Tourist/DL1 bike as Roadster, and that is a different animal from the Sports. Those are the Bobby Bikes and the ones you see in photos of third world guys hauling whole families or massive loads to market. Still, I suspect those frames are no stronger than a Sports frame is.

Buellster 08-20-18 10:30 AM


Originally Posted by desconhecido (Post 20516280)
That black bike with the white fenders looks very interesting considering the dynohub and the leather saddle if the saddle is salvageable. Check that the saddle is not dried out and ready to tear and also the leather around the rivits to make sure that the leather is not parting as a result of the stress at those points. The top tube fulcrum stop will be 25.4 mm which will fit your purpose. It looks like the pulley may fit a brazed on fixture which is 50s/eqarly60sstyle, I think, and may not be usefull. If the hub is about 53 or later, it will likely have a three prong sprocket and the snap ring and spacers that you need,

Evaluate this bike carefully before you part it out. It may be a complete and restorable example of a mid or early 50s bike, or early 60s, that is worthy of restoration/repair/"scorcherizing" .for its own sake.

If I had a chance at that bike, I might take it at $100 or a little less, but it looks like a real interesting prospect. If I were in Portland and you had that bike, Id trade you all the stuff you need (except for the shifter) and a couple bucks to get blacky.

Noted I'll check the date on the hub and see what I get. I wont be able to look at it untill Friday. 3 speeds dont vanish right away in this area. My green sports for 125 in near mint condition sat for 3 weeks, but if this is a pre 60s model its likley in higher demand for those with the eyes for them. Am I mistaken in thinking the frame is around 21"? That would be too small for me without some modification.
Excuse my lack of knowledge of the nomenclature, but by "pulley" do you mean the round rolly bit? I have one of those in the box of my 4 speed.


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20516346)
I tend to be pre 1965 oriented, ot better yet, pre 1960 when it comes to Raleighs. So when I look at this mid 70s stepthrough I see a bunch of parts I'll never use. Auto adjust brake levers, brake calipers missing their adjuster screws, 36H front and rear wheels 46T crank without V brackets, plastic covered shifter, plastic guide wheel, plastic cable stop, 3 point chainguard, rear mudguard with 2 pairs of stays, huge reflector and a useless seat. I do covet those German ESGE alloy kickstands! I use those on all my bikes, no matter the year. The ones made for Raleighs are especially good.

Yeah most of the newer Raleigh is useless to me. The bag caught my eye and honestly the fact that I wouldnt like anything but the parts I need could be good in that I'd get it out of my house sooner rather than later.
I fear I'll have trouble letting go of the older black model if I pick it up...


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