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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

Ballenxj 10-01-18 05:23 PM

^^ Thanks Markk900. ^^

Buellster 10-02-18 09:56 AM

After some out some miles on the sports I've found it's just not quite the right size the top tube is too small and I'm find my knees get in the way a lot. Before I schorcherize it with a new stem to rais the bars and push them out farther and what not I thought I'd get ab appraisal on it.
they always says it's only original once and this guy is SO original I wondering if I should see if I can make my money back off of it and find something more my size to ride or less OEM to scorch.
thoughts?
heres my appraisal
thread

noglider 10-02-18 10:31 AM


Originally Posted by mtb_addict (Post 20596183)
Is it possible to fit two 21" Raliegh Sport into a midsize sedan?

I'm thinking one with the front wheel removed, on the back seat. (Pretty sure I can get it to fit in there)

And the other one with both wheels removed, in the trunk. (Not sure I can get it to fit in there)

And how do I keep it from getting scratched up? I have a 3 hour drive to get it home.

Yes but bring a screwdriver and an adjustable wrench. You may need to remove a fender or two. Remove handlebars and pedals. Bring a pedal wrench. My Rudge Sports pedals don't fit a pedal wrench. The wrench flats are larger than 15mm, so maybe bring a 16mm cone wrench.

If this deal doesn't work out, @mkeller234 is selling a 21" Hercules cheap. He's in Ohio and prefers not to ship, but you might be able to bribe him.

BigChief 10-02-18 11:07 AM

@Buellster I don't see anything wrong with changing the stem. You can even shim the original bars to fit a 1" clamp. You might need to make up new cables, but this bike has pinch bolt brake calipers that make the job easy.

Buellster 10-02-18 11:20 AM

I really do love the bike. I'd rather hold onto it. I guess I just felt bad for messing with it given its OEM condition.

I had read on a previous page that a standard 22.2 quill stem works, I have a nitto stem that may give me the reach I'm looking for. It's a 25.4 bar size.
The brakes wont mount on a standard size bar will they? I also have some porters that are road size if that would fit better.

clubman 10-02-18 02:28 PM


Originally Posted by Buellster (Post 20596420)
I really do love the bike. I'd rather hold onto it. I guess I just felt bad for messing with it given its OEM condition.

Feel free to do what you want with it. There are thousands of pristine, late model Sports bikes around the world and they won't acrue much more value, even if kept original. There's just too many of them. If it was a decade or three older than yes, keep it stock.

Buellster 10-02-18 02:43 PM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 20596794)
Feel free to do what you want with it. There are thousands of pristine, late model Sports bikes around the world and they won't acrue much more value, even if kept original. There's just too many of them. If it was a decade or three older than yes, keep it stock.

wonderful!
I'm glad I'll be keeping it around. Time to get around to schorcherizing haha

dweenk 10-02-18 02:58 PM


Originally Posted by Buellster (Post 20596826)
wonderful!
I'm glad I'll be keeping it around. Time to get around to schorcherizing haha

Now's your chance to put a longer alloy stem on the bike with alloy bars. Keep all of the original stuff though.

BigChief 10-02-18 03:09 PM


Originally Posted by Buellster (Post 20596420)
I really do love the bike. I'd rather hold onto it. I guess I just felt bad for messing with it given its OEM condition.

I had read on a previous page that a standard 22.2 quill stem works, I have a nitto stem that may give me the reach I'm looking for. It's a 25.4 bar size.
The brakes wont mount on a standard size bar will they? I also have some porters that are road size if that would fit better.

The Raleigh handlebars are 15/16" and most modern stems have 1" (25.4mm) clamps. I have never tried to fit Raleigh single bolt levers on 1" bars myself, but I'm sure someone here could tell you if they would still work. I'll guess that they would. I am sure the shifter will be fine. There's nothing wrong with setting up your Sports to be comfortable for you to ride. Besides, these are reversible mods. Easily changed back if anybody ever had a mind to. Plenty of us here change the cog size to our preference and I have no problem using Brooks B66 saddles in place of the stock B17. I typically change the rubber block pedals to MKS sylvan touring pedals for any bike I plan on putting much mileage on.

Buellster 10-02-18 04:06 PM

Well looks like it's time for some experimenting!
The year is getting later and these steel rims only have so many days of sun left so it may be something I toy with throughout the off season.

BigChief 10-02-18 04:29 PM


Originally Posted by Buellster (Post 20596967)
Well looks like it's time for some experimenting!
The year is getting later and these steel rims only have so many days of sun left so it may be something I toy with throughout the off season.

I wonder what brand stem is on DQRider's Pashley is and if it's available in 22.2mm. That one is a work of art.

Buellster 10-02-18 05:06 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20596997)
I wonder what brand stem is on DQRider's Pashley is and if it's available in 22.2mm. That one is a work of art.

+1 to that!
something like that would be perfect

Piff 10-03-18 12:13 AM

I've just picked up a '74 raleigh super course frame, and I've a mind to make it into an English three speed of a sorts. However, I do not own a 3 speed hub or wheel. I've been brainstorming as to the cheapest way to get one, and I've come to the conclusion that this could get expensive fast.

I feel like my best course of action is to find a suitable donor 3-speed bike on Craigslist to get my hub, handlebars, stem, shifter, and brake levers. Then build up the rear wheel with the old hub.

I'm just wondering how much risk am I taking by assuming that the hub will run fine after decades of neglect. These things are industrucible though, right? Or is it pretty likely I'd have to buy two old hubs and cobble together a working one?

Thanks!

gster 10-03-18 04:11 AM


Originally Posted by Piff (Post 20597519)
I've just picked up a '74 raleigh super course frame, and I've a mind to make it into an English three speed of a sorts. However, I do not own a 3 speed hub or wheel. I've been brainstorming as to the cheapest way to get one, and I've come to the conclusion that this could get expensive fast.

I feel like my best course of action is to find a suitable donor 3-speed bike on Craigslist to get my hub, handlebars, stem, shifter, and brake levers. Then build up the rear wheel with the old hub.

I'm just wondering how much risk am I taking by assuming that the hub will run fine after decades of neglect. These things are industrucible though, right? Or is it pretty likely I'd have to buy two old hubs and cobble together a working one?

Thanks!

The hubs are generally bullet proof but occasionally you'll come across one with a problem. Usually it's been sitting too long or someone has over tightend the lock nuts.
You also may have to reset the rear forks or build up the hub with washers to fit.
Unless free, the price difference between a donor bike and a restorable bike could be minor.
Bike shops are still pitching out 3 speed hubs/wheels in the trash as they "upgrade" customers bikes.
You may be better off finding a complete 3 speed that you like as is.
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...3c2eea9d44.jpg
My first 3 speed at $175.00 with more spent on upgrades over the years.

gster 10-03-18 04:16 AM


Originally Posted by Piff (Post 20597519)
I've just picked up a '74 raleigh super course frame, and I've a mind to make it into an English three speed of a sorts. However, I do not own a 3 speed hub or wheel. I've been brainstorming as to the cheapest way to get one, and I've come to the conclusion that this could get expensive fast.

I feel like my best course of action is to find a suitable donor 3-speed bike on Craigslist to get my hub, handlebars, stem, shifter, and brake levers. Then build up the rear wheel with the old hub.

I'm just wondering how much risk am I taking by assuming that the hub will run fine after decades of neglect. These things are industrucible though, right? Or is it pretty likely I'd have to buy two old hubs and cobble together a working one?

Thanks!

They're still out there.
For example:
Here's a local BSA 3 speed with an asking price of $125.00 CDN.
This bike has been up for a while.
I would say too nice to part out.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...db7c2ff657.jpg

BigChief 10-03-18 05:34 AM


Originally Posted by Piff (Post 20597519)
I've just picked up a '74 raleigh super course frame, and I've a mind to make it into an English three speed of a sorts. However, I do not own a 3 speed hub or wheel. I've been brainstorming as to the cheapest way to get one, and I've come to the conclusion that this could get expensive fast.

I feel like my best course of action is to find a suitable donor 3-speed bike on Craigslist to get my hub, handlebars, stem, shifter, and brake levers. Then build up the rear wheel with the old hub.

I'm just wondering how much risk am I taking by assuming that the hub will run fine after decades of neglect. These things are industrucible though, right? Or is it pretty likely I'd have to buy two old hubs and cobble together a working one?

Thanks!

Building up an internal gear roadster out of a lugged 531 frame and all high quality lightweight components is a worthy project and one that I've been daydreaming over for years. There's some stunning examples of this sort of build here on this thread. It would get expensive and since there aren't many people around who would appreciate this sort of bike, it would likely be under water cost wise if you ever intended to sell. Still, building your own custom lightweight roadster is a fine way to spend winter evenings and you'd have a great bike for summer rides. On the other hand, if you want to ride an old English roadster on the cheap, thats easy to do. They're not hard to find and it's a great hobby. Sturmey Archer AW hubs are very reliable and not difficult to repair.

nlerner 10-03-18 05:57 AM

In my view, the biggest challenge is that the great majority of S-A hub shells are 40-hole, and 40-hole 27” or 700c rims can be a challenge to find. They’re out there as are 36-hole AW hubs (usually found on Schwinn 3-speeds), just not readily available.

BigChief 10-03-18 07:18 AM

Speaking of 36h hubs...There's a 36h FW on fleebay now that I would have bought if I didn't already have an S5 for my next project.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Sturme...pe!04941!US!-1

Buellster 10-03-18 07:30 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20597746)
Speaking of 36h hubs...There's a 36h FW on fleebay now that I would have bought if I didn't already have an S5 for my next project.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Sturme...pe!04941!US!-1

it should be noted this one doesnt look like it comes with a trigger. They are between 50 and 75 dollars to buy, unless you can find a kind soul willing to sell it to you much cheaper in this forum.
I went through the process and I was lucky enough to find the latter, but If I did it again i would find a trigger before I bought the hub haha

Buellster 10-03-18 07:36 AM


Originally Posted by Piff (Post 20597519)
I've just picked up a '74 raleigh super course frame, and I've a mind to make it into an English three speed of a sorts. However, I do not own a 3 speed hub or wheel. I've been brainstorming as to the cheapest way to get one, and I've come to the conclusion that this could get expensive fast.

I feel like my best course of action is to find a suitable donor 3-speed bike on Craigslist to get my hub, handlebars, stem, shifter, and brake levers. Then build up the rear wheel with the old hub.

I'm just wondering how much risk am I taking by assuming that the hub will run fine after decades of neglect. These things are industrucible though, right? Or is it pretty likely I'd have to buy two old hubs and cobble together a working one?

Thanks!

I've got a super course I've been thinking of doing that with as well!
I've been pondering the idea of putting my FW into it. The previous owner was kind enough to put a braze on derailur on it though so first I will put that to use on a more standard build.
as to finding hubs, I scoured Ebay and CL for a few weeks. I found a perfectly functioning 81 sports that I got (with some bargaining) for 30 bucks. Here in PDX 3 speeds tend to collect dust and wont sell for weeks so the price will keep dropping untill you can snatch them up for near nothing. That sports was rusty as hell on the frame but the hub just had some grease on it. All I had to do was toy with the lock nut and the cable tensioner and voila! Working 3 speed.
it should also be noted that I later found (literally stumbled over while searching for parts) a bucket FULL of SA hubs at my LBS. They dont see much value in them so they dont sort them and just eyeball the price on them. I'd check yours out if you have a co op or a used parts style lbs.

JaccoW 10-03-18 07:44 AM


Originally Posted by Buellster (Post 20597766)
it should be noted this one doesnt look like it comes with a trigger. They are between 50 and 75 dollars to buy, unless you can find a kind soul willing to sell it to you much cheaper in this forum.
I went through the process and I was lucky enough to find the latter, but If I did it again i would find a trigger before I bought the hub haha

Or look at British eBay. You can often find them on there for $25-30 including shipping.

On another note, $10 3-speed AW hub anyone?

elcraft 10-03-18 07:50 AM


Originally Posted by Buellster (Post 20597766)
it should be noted this one doesnt look like it comes with a trigger. They are between 50 and 75 dollars to buy, unless you can find a kind soul willing to sell it to you much cheaper in this forum.
I went through the process and I was lucky enough to find the latter, but If I did it again i would find a trigger before I bought the hub haha

The indicator rods for FM, FW models are as rare as "Hen'sTeeth", as well. Especially those for the longer, 6 1/4" axle. If you intend to use one of these hubs with forged drop outs, you may need to acquire these parts. The only consistent source, I know of is Colwood Wheel Works in East Sussex, UK. Vince Warner has had exacting duplicates re- manufactured for the indicator rods. His expertise on all things Sturmey Archer is astonishing. He sells or reconditions SA hubs from any era or vintage. He may also have thumb shifters as well. See:
https://en-gb.facebook.com/colwoodwheelworks/

Happy Hunting!

desconhecido 10-03-18 08:20 AM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 20597653)
In my view, the biggest challenge is that the great majority of S-A hub shells are 40-hole, and 40-hole 27” or 700c rims can be a challenge to find. They’re out there as are 36-hole AW hubs (usually found on Schwinn 3-speeds), just not readily available.

Raleigh went to 36h f & r sometime in the mid to late 70s. There are lots of those bikes around and many are good salvage candidates.

As for 40h 700c rims, there are not a lot of options, it seems. Velocity Dyads come in 40h in silver and black. The price champion for 40h 700c rims appears to be Sun Rhyno Lite at $26 or so. The Rhynos come only in black, I think. Common drillings are available. Up to a couple years ago, CR18s were still available in 40h 700c (I have one), but I can't find them anymore. They might still be around somewhere.

Looks like Ben's offers some 700c 40h black Weinmann rims too.

noglider 10-03-18 08:45 AM

7/8 inch ~= 22.2 millimeters.

I built up an Atala Competizione (Reynolds 531) frameset with an AW hub, toe clips, and drop handlebars. It didn't stay like that for long, and I put on a 2x5 drivetrain. The gears are too far apart for that kind of riding (for me).

Piff 10-03-18 11:13 AM

Thanks everyone for your expertise, I'm glad I asked a question here before making plans!

Considering the difficulty and cost of putting together a 700c or 27" 3-speed wheel...I may just wait on this and go for a 1x5 drivetrain. Should be much cheaper and easier, and I'll go for the roadster style when I've got a bit more funds around.

I hope to one day post it in this thread :D

nlerner 10-03-18 03:25 PM

I'd be tempted to pursue this deal if I had the time to pick them up: three bikes including a 23" 1960s Raleigh Superbe for $75 in Plymouth, MA. The MTB would make for a good winter beater:

https://boston.craigslist.org/sob/bi...713814503.html

https://images.craigslist.org/00m0m_...Lc_600x450.jpg

Buellster 10-03-18 05:07 PM


Originally Posted by Piff (Post 20598156)
Thanks everyone for your expertise, I'm glad I asked a question here before making plans!

Considering the difficulty and cost of putting together a 700c or 27" 3-speed wheel...I may just wait on this and go for a 1x5 drivetrain. Should be much cheaper and easier, and I'll go for the roadster style when I've got a bit more funds around.

I hope to one day post it in this thread :D

That's where I'm at with my FW roadster build.
I would poke into your local used parts lbs if you have one. Mine has a 700c SA 3 speed hub already built for 60 bucks. You could be lucky and find one at yours. Just a suggestion :)

nlerner 10-04-18 12:21 PM

If you don't want to wait for donors and do rim/hub swaps, I saw in a tweet that Harris Cyclery is once again stocking 700c wheels (Sun CR-18 rims) with Sturmey-Archer 3-speed hubs:

https://www.harriscyclery.net/produc...wheel-5766.htm

Ballenxj 10-04-18 01:21 PM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 20599969)
If you don't want to wait for donors and do rim/hub swaps, I saw in a tweet that Harris Cyclery is once again stocking 700c wheels (Sun CR-18 rims) with Sturmey-Archer 3-speed hubs:

https://www.harriscyclery.net/produc...wheel-5766.htm

That looks like a sweet setup with everything you need for the conversion. :thumb:

dweenk 10-04-18 02:46 PM

ID this part please
 
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...6745b9e051.jpg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e00b5c1223.jpg

I think this is a headlight bracket that mounts on the quill stem bolt, but that seems to be a dangerous place to put a light. The bracket is the right width for this purpose. Could it be Motobecane?


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