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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

gster 07-03-17 02:27 PM

4 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 19693729)
I figured it wasn't a Sports type 3 speed. They don't seem to appeal to you. Still think you might like a Colt. Especially if you modified it like you do with your 20s. I'm beginning to wonder about AW hubs from the 70s. The only trouble I've ever had with AWs were on the newer ones. The 72 on my fenderless roadster was stuck solid when I got it. Thought I might find rust inside, but no. It was clean except for the dried up grease in the bearings. It wasn't stuck when I took it apart. Looked normal. After that, it shifted, but not smoothly. The 55 hub on my scorcher shifts smooth as silk. Snick snick up and down where the roadster would slip down into 3rd smoothly but was crabby about lifting into 2nd. I did notice that the driver was cut very roughly on the 70s hub and the clutch plate had very sharp edges on the top. So I stoned the top edges of the clutch so they were smoother. It did help. The bike will reliably shift up into 2nd now, but it just doesn't have the smooth flawless action of the 55 AW.

I'm sure that quality suffered over the years. This is a '71 hub dated Jan. so you might imagine the workers being in a bad mood just back from the holidays.
Closer inspection leads me to suspect the chain/chainring alignment as I can feel and see a particular spot that the chain seems to be binding...
I will revisit next weekend.
On another note, here's a local Superbe Dawn Tourist for sale @ $600.00 OBO.
Very original and complete.

Attachment 570299

Attachment 570300

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SirMike1983 07-03-17 03:42 PM

By the 1970s, the main money was going into derailleur bikes. The Sturmey Archer 3-speed was very long-in-the-tooth by then, and the money for top flight internal gear hub production was not there. There are numerous subtle, but meaningful differences between a hub made in 1955 and one made in 1975, though both can work well and be reliable. The most important difference is that the overall hardening and finishing of the 1950s parts will be better. The tolerances are probably a bit better as well, though the AW has pretty loose tolerances, relatively speaking.

There are some parts design differences as well (e.g., ramped drivers versus straight-taper drivers; metal clutch spring caps versus plastic ones; etc.).

But that would not discourage me from using a 1970s-era hub in building-up an appropriate bike from that era. A proper clean-up and re-lube and they work fine.

The AW is usually a "safe bet" if you want a working transmission, though they can be limited if you're looking for lots of gearing options.

Slightspeed 07-03-17 11:50 PM

5 Attachment(s)
On the Pasadena vintage ride yesterday a guy with a 1935 Raleigh Record Ace showed up. Being a modern (1973) Super Course rider, I didn't know anything about this bike. We do share head badges, which was kinda cool. On the long drag up to the pizza stop turn around he hung right behind me with his ancient 3 speed. The bike and the rider were the hit if the ride for me. He was all decked out on period kit, wool sweater, plaid knickers, cap and goggles. I was fascinated by his beautiful bike, with the patina of many happy miles. He said he has had it about a month and paid $600 for it. It was so cool seeing a bike older than I am, and I'm old! My first real bike was 1959ish Raynal English Racer 3 speed. Wish I still had it now. A couple of pictures of the Record Ace (sorry for the bad sun angle).

GamblerGORD53 07-04-17 05:40 PM

2 Attachment(s)
[QUOTE=thumpism;19643917]It's Canadian, not English and it's probably considerably overpriced but it does have a Sturmey hub and a swoopy chainguard and it's real sparkly.


https://richmond.craigslist.org/bik/6147169789.html

NOS 1969 CCM LADIES 3 SPEED CRUISER - $222 (CHESTER)

https://images.craigslist.org/00d0d_...b_1200x900.jpg

Sorry nothing personal, But I have to call BULL to this widely held CCM snark.



I bought a base 1973/4 Raleigh 5 sp derailler bike new and rode it 16 years/ 14,000 miles I guess. Not since 1990.
April this year I bought a repainted but well preserved 1973 CCM SA 3 speed, now getting renewed wheels.
Actually bought this bike at $173 for the perfect handlebar to switch with the other now on my tour custom. It makes me happier every ride.

Here are my comparisons part by part.
1973 CCM >>>>>
Frame -- Yah it's supposedly lesser quality thicker tubes and thinner dropouts. But it has a limousine 44 1/2" WB, stronger plate bridges for brakes, fenders and KS. ST about 22 1/2" CC" and TT 23 1/2", perfect for swept bars. It soaks up sidewalk cracks and perfectly handles corners and hills at any speed. 39 mph so far.
Seat stays -- Not wonderful rivet design. Maybe I will braze them before powder coating.
Fork/ hub -- Very lovely bend and rake/ trail, chrome crown. Dropout is 90 mm with 8 mm slot for keyed axle. The hub is plain low flange, but very well made with caged 1/4" balls. Easy to adjust and goes farther between lubes. The wheel will spin 3 or 4 minutes. FAR BETTER.
Crank -- I'll take this smoother, easy to service 1PC ANY DAY over the boat anchor 3pc finicky cotter on the Raleigh.
Fenders -- Best I have EVER seen. Deep dish curve for good looks, for better aerodynamics, to hide mud and space for wheel removal. Thicker metal is more solid of course and also has rattle free bolts mount. They can also be adjusted for width easily. The stay goes around the axles that acts as a non-turn washer and probably dampens the ride a bit.
Chain guard -- Again has the same positive attributes of the fenders, SOLID and functional. Swoopy?? LOL It does have weird wood thread screws.
Rims -- The CCM ones are 5 mm wider, not as strong, less well finished, but they have a far better hold on the tire bead seat. They seem better for braking. They came at 590 mm/ are a bit wobbly, getting switched to 584 Dyads.
Stem -- It came with a useless aluminum one like the green bike pictured. First thing that I chucked.
Tires -- Nylon, Must be pretty good, I'm still using them for 820 miles on the front.
Paint -- It was as good as any I guess. Drab burgundy/ tan color on many of their bikes.
Back hub -- Likely only did 2,000 miles. The inside looks like a coal mine with rough bearing runs. I'm glad to replace with drum brakes anyway.
Brake levers -- They were about the same, but the Raleigh ones were hollow steel. Now using AL ones from Pashley.
Shifter -- Now changed to a new SA thumbie with a better mount on the TT.
Overall -- This bike is a JOY to ride. The crowd likes it also. So far have not had the opportunity to ride but 3 x 56 highway milers. Not as fast as my SA 5w for sure. I hope I can find longer cranks and get new cups. Wouldn't be that bad to keep it as, but I have plans for many miles. There is NO modern bike I want.

Raleigh -- Yah Mine was not a Pro or anything. But the 531 frame had solid dropouts with fender eyelets. I think it had a miserable 41 1/2" WB like new bikes.
Crank -- see above.
Fenders and Chain guard -- More like modern shaped ones, thinner steel, wire stays. Poorly attached with a spring clip and tinfoil crimp band in the middle that scratched to paint, Stupid rattler. The guard is silly easy to dent. Pffft
Rims -- 27 x 1 1/4. Nice solid steel that stayed 100% true. Chrome was very slippery for both brakes and tire mount.
Front hub -- Second worst thing on the bike. Poor quality, poor little bearings, poor adjustment and service. POS
It had a mechanical speedometer that wouldn't help of course.
Stem -- Best thing on the bike really. Beautiful and solid chromed. Now on the CCM.
Grips -- Same as the CCM ones, but with emerald sparkle for the win. Consider them the best ever also. Now also on my tour bike, been used near 40,000 miles I think.
Tires -- Came with gumwall. They were pretty good not counting flats.
Paint -- Was kind of chippy, nice green color.
Spokes -- Both bikes had galvanized for the lose lose.
Seat -- I didn't mind the plastic mattress seat. More springs to break and sag.
Back hub -- 5 spd stem shift derailleurs. Poor quality, poor function, poor GI range actually worse than SA 3.
Overall -- Just too finicky and unreliable to ride very far from home. At the time, I didn't really put much time into riding it anyway.

PS --- Don't get me started on how STUPID rod/ rim pull brakes were. I used them on Flying Pidgeons in Chengdu.
Raleigh was still using this USELESS garbage for 60 years ??? PATHETIC >>> May as well of dragged your shoes.

GamblerGORD53 07-04-17 06:12 PM

SO in other words, i wish to hell I bought this 1973 CCM in the first place.

thumpism 07-04-17 06:14 PM


Originally Posted by GamblerGORD53 (Post 19696269)

Originally Posted by thumpism (Post 19643917)
It's Canadian, not English and it's probably considerably overpriced but it does have a Sturmey hub and a swoopy chainguard and it's real sparkly.

https://richmond.craigslist.org/bik/6147169789.html

NOS 1969 CCM LADIES 3 SPEED CRUISER - $222 (CHESTER)

Sorry nothing personal, But I have to call BULL to this widely held CCM snark.

What snark? My remark referenced Canadian because the thread is titled "For the love of English 3-speeds" and I was qualifying my entry here. It's a nice little bike, it looks like it lived indoors for the last 40 years and it is almost certainly overpriced for this market.

Dude, you sound a little touchy on behalf of your precious CCM. Now, that was snark.

BigChief 07-04-17 06:33 PM

No problem here. Everybody has the right to be clueless.

clubman 07-04-17 06:35 PM

Crap, I'm a minor CCM collector and I rarely ride them :D

Certain years/models/fitment are just great, many are not. GG53, glad you got a good one. Beware the CCM fork...it's soft, supple and tweaks at the slightest impact. So just don't hit anything. :thumb:

GamblerGORD53 07-04-17 06:38 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 19696381)
No problem here. Everybody has the right to be clueless.

You didn't say about what. Maybe you are gutless.

clubman 07-04-17 06:40 PM

WHOA GG. Have a thicker skin or don't bother.

Velocivixen 07-04-17 06:57 PM

We're a fun group....no harm, no foul. We all love 3-speeds!

SirMike1983 07-04-17 07:17 PM

The 4th calls for an American three-speed look:

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-r47L2o6is...629_190959.jpg

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-4teG6sx6_...626_185727.jpg

1947 Schwinn Continental and 1941 Schwinn New World - a couple fillet brazed favorites of mine.


And here's a 1947 New World that is electroforged, but with some nice balloon-tire style parts. You could get these bikes with just about any parts combo.

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-m51VQBrYf...030_165403.jpg

GamblerGORD53 07-04-17 07:30 PM

Wow nice. After I bought the CCM, I saw a Schwinn New World almost exactly the same year and awesome. Was $575 I think. Wanted to buy it.

BigChief 07-04-17 07:36 PM


Originally Posted by GamblerGORD53 (Post 19696392)
You didn't say about what. Maybe you are gutless.

Sure. I'll be brief. You don't seem to understand the concept of enjoying antiquated utilitarian bicycles. If you did, you would have realized how meaningless and pretentious your post was before you clicked the submit reply button.

gster 07-04-17 08:15 PM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 19693906)
I'll upload some photos shortly, but now I want to RANT about the NEW SA 2-Speed Kickback Hub w/coaster brake. It was fine and dandy from the start. I came to a stop at my house using the coaster brake, got off the bike and started walking it when I noticed the rear wheel was "locked up" and would not move in any direction. I downloaded SA "Parts Diagram" for this particular hub and proceeded to disassemble and photo along the way since I am not familiar with it.

In case any of you don't know, I've taken apart sever AW 3's, G6's and AG 3's, and am very comfortable as to what I'm supposed to look for in the way of wear or breakage.

I took the 2-speed apart, put it back together ( about 4 times!!!) and now the bike rides in the 1:1 gear and stops using coaster, but won't "flick" shift to 2nd when I flick it backward. So......to say that I am frustrated at the moment is an understatement. I sent an email to Sturmey Archer, who is closed until July 13th.

Can any of you point me in the direction specifically for this hub and what internal parts make it shift into 2nd? I have checked EVERYTHING multiple times to make sure pawls are going the right way and seated, springs are lined up, etc.

UGH.

Spoke to Universal Cycles and in order to start a warranty process I have to unlace the hub and take it there. It's in Portland about a 12 mile drive. I wish I could just fix this one.

Sorry to hear your tale of woe..
I'd heard that they were troublesome. Whatever they'd learned in the 60's has been forgotten.
I have no advice to offer.

gster 07-04-17 08:21 PM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 19696430)
We're a fun group....no harm, no foul. We all love 3-speeds!

Well put.
The Canadian CCM's equiped with Sturmey Archer components should be considered "cousins" of the true British 3 speeds.

GamblerGORD53 07-04-17 09:02 PM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 19696386)
Crap, I'm a minor CCM collector and I rarely ride them :D

Certain years/models/fitment are just great, many are not. GG53, glad you got a good one. Beware the CCM fork...it's soft, supple and tweaks at the slightest impact. So just don't hit anything. :thumb:

Well, my late dad's antique Rudge has a fork made the same. It is pushed back 15/ 20 mm, so it leans terribly.
Too bad, I used to like riding it in my high school years. I'll need to change the fork when I go to a 100 mm dyno drum hub anyway.

Ballenxj 07-04-17 09:16 PM


Originally Posted by Slightspeed (Post 19694894)
On the Pasadena vintage ride yesterday a guy with a 1935 Raleigh Record Ace showed up. Being a modern (1973) Super Course rider, I didn't know anything about this bike. We do share head badges, which was kinda cool. On the long drag up to the pizza stop turn around he hung right behind me with his ancient 3 speed. The bike and the rider were the hit if the ride for me. He was all decked out on period kit, wool sweater, plaid knickers, cap and goggles. I was fascinated by his beautiful bike, with the patina of many happy miles. He said he has had it about a month and paid $600 for it. It was so cool seeing a bike older than I am, and I'm old! My first real bike was 1959ish Raynal English Racer 3 speed. Wish I still had it now. A couple of pictures of the Record Ace (sorry for the bad sun angle).

WOW! That must have been exciting to see. I know it would have been for me.
Is he a member here? If not, did you invite him? I would love to see and hear more about his bike. :)

thumpism 07-05-17 04:30 AM

23" Sports! Non-stock crank and not as nice as a CCM (better now?) but worth a look.

https://richmond.craigslist.org/bik/6204189196.html

Vintage 56cm Raleigh 3 Speed - $75 (Church Hill)

https://images.craigslist.org/00202_...xc_600x450.jpg

make / manufacturer: Raleigh

Getting rid of this guy to free up some space at my new house. Would be a great cruiser bike or refurb project for someone.

treebound 07-05-17 06:15 PM

Just picked up this Raleigh Sports over the weekend, haven't decided if I'm working on it or trading it off. Rear hub dates to 1974. The saddle has seen better days and probably needs someone good with leatherwork if the saddle frame is worth saving. Missing the cotter nuts on both sides, and either the shiney cap or fork lock on one side of the fork (I'm not sure if this year still had a fork lock).
https://i.imgur.com/yvJ7tUT.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/4hqXE0d.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/uF3UkrI.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/KANJNkN.jpg

(I'm also testing out the imgur app since photobucket is done for me)

CriticalThought 07-06-17 11:19 AM

I recently rescued a 1952 Humber Sports. Really looking forward to getting it into riding shape!


https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4259/...61b98c1d_c.jpg

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4068/...55e84b27_c.jpg

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4255/...db49ee7e_c.jpg

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4034/...410d468e_z.jpg

Some more pics and details in my post here: http://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...er-sports.html

dweenk 07-06-17 11:24 AM

@treebound

The fork lock would have been on the left side of the fork. The paint looks to be very good in the photos, and you have a coaster brake hub. I am thinking that the leather saddle may have been a dealer upgrade.

clubman 07-06-17 01:43 PM

And very few Sports models ever came with a lock. In the 70's it was really just the Superbes, I'd be surprised if you could even order it as an option like you could back in the good old days.

nlerner 07-06-17 04:13 PM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 19700299)
And very few Sports models ever came with a lock. In the 70's it was really just the Superbes, I'd be surprised if you could even order it as an option like you could back in the good old days.

+1. I think it's just missing the chrome dimple, not a locking mechanism.

gster 07-06-17 04:13 PM


Originally Posted by CriticalThought (Post 19699900)

Good score! Looking forward to progress reports.


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