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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

markk900 08-06-18 10:40 AM

The simplest way to look at it is that if the chain tension varies (biopace or changeable cogs front or rear) you need something to handle the varying chain slack. You can in fact use a rear derailleur (locked into a single position if needed) to do that.

oldveloman 08-06-18 11:39 AM

Added another Raleigh icon to the stable today... :)
It' s a 1976 3-speed Twenty in need of a thorough clean-up, but it is mechanically sound.

Peter

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c210d0e7c2.jpg

Buellster 08-06-18 11:46 AM


Originally Posted by markk900 (Post 20491217)
The simplest way to look at it is that if the chain tension varies (biopace or changeable cogs front or rear) you need something to handle the varying chain slack. You can in fact use a rear derailleur (locked into a single position if needed) to do that.

That sounds like a viable solution. Does that mean one could feasibly have a 2x front gear with a rear internal hub? I dont think I'll go that route but is interesting to know.

Buellster 08-06-18 11:54 AM


Originally Posted by oldveloman (Post 20491362)
Added another Raleigh icon to the stable today... :)
It' s a 1976 3-speed Twenty in need of a thorough clean-up, but it is mechanically sound.

Peter

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c210d0e7c2.jpg

I think I saw this guy up in my area! Whereabouts did you pick it up?

markk900 08-06-18 12:06 PM


Originally Posted by Buellster (Post 20491379)
That sounds like a viable solution. Does that mean one could feasibly have a 2x front gear with a rear internal hub? I dont think I'll go that route but is interesting to know.

yes you can, and if you search a bit on the forum you will also find folks that have done 3 and 4 speed clusters plus the 3 speed to give 12 gears (and with a front changer 24 or even gasp 36 gears). Personally think that is overkill in terms of gears and complexity but it can and has been done many times.

your thought is the simplest (2 sprockets up front and a single at the back with the 3 speed hub) and itís easy to lock in the derailleur by using the limit screws to keep it aligned with the rear sprocket.

Buellster 08-06-18 12:46 PM

Wow! I had never even considered that. The bike I'm converting has a claw on derailur mount that causes my tire to slip under tension so I'll probably stick with a single on front and skip the rear derailur but this is giving me some crazy ideas for the future! Haha

Buellster 08-06-18 12:54 PM

I know its not a 3 speed but i thought you all may appriciate it nonetheless. I picked up this in original box 1964 4 speed AW hub. I think im going to use this in my new wheel build and fix up the Raleigh Sport for resale. I have not seen many 4 speed hubs around so I was really excited to find this!.


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f85b28bab5.jpg

Salubrious 08-06-18 12:55 PM

Nice find- the FW is the one to get.

BigChief 08-06-18 01:02 PM

+1. FW is a very good hub. Great find.

Buellster 08-06-18 01:19 PM

Thanks!
I played 69.99, one penny more than the asking price. I think it was a little pricey but I see so few and it's in the original box!

markk900 08-06-18 01:23 PM

Nice score... I last bought an almost new AW for $30CAD.... would love to try an FW

oldveloman 08-06-18 04:24 PM


Originally Posted by Buellster (Post 20491406)
I think I saw this guy up in my area! Whereabouts did you pick it up?

Don' t think so. I bought this one 500 metres from my home in Belgium :)

Peter

Buellster 08-06-18 04:58 PM


Originally Posted by oldveloman (Post 20491967)
Don' t think so. I bought this one 500 metres from my home in Belgium :)

Peter

Haha
yup, I'm a little ways away from Belgium

BigChief 08-06-18 05:01 PM

Now I can say that I recommend the Nicelite LED bulbs. They are brighter than I thought they would be. No question these would raise your visibility in traffic. The red tail light especially. I like em.

Ballenxj 08-06-18 05:57 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20492010)
Now I can say that I recommend the Nicelite LED bulbs. They are brighter than I thought they would be. No question these would raise your visibility in traffic. The red tail light especially. I like em.

:thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

desconhecido 08-06-18 06:10 PM


Originally Posted by Buellster (Post 20491618)
Thanks!
I played 69.99, one penny more than the asking price. I think it was a little pricey but I see so few and it's in the original box!

I don't think that's bad at all for a new FW hub. 36h or 40h?

You'll need a proper 4 speed shifter for that fellow. Early 50s Raleighs had a "3 or 4" speed shifter that will work. I believe the shifters labeled as 4 speed are the same and will work also.

Before you build it into a wheel, measure the axle length and see what the OLD will turn out to be and make sure you're happy with the result. There were two axle possibilities 5 3/4" and 6 1/4". The shorter axle will match the spacing on you're Sports which you can measure and probably turns out to be about 110 mm. The longer axle will space out to about 120 mm which is probably ideal for your Harding.

I don't know where to find axles for these guys, maybe on ebay from time to time, maybe from a trashed hub.

Look at the exploded diagram and notice the two piece shift rod/indicator. These are supposed to be fragile and are, so they say, not easy to find and expensive when they turn up.

Buellster 08-06-18 07:34 PM


Originally Posted by desconhecido (Post 20492105)
I don't think that's bad at all for a new FW hub. 36h or 40h?

You'll need a proper 4 speed shifter for that fellow. Early 50s Raleighs had a "3 or 4" speed shifter that will work. I believe the shifters labeled as 4 speed are the same and will work also.

Before you build it into a wheel, measure the axle length and see what the OLD will turn out to be and make sure you're happy with the result. There were two axle possibilities 5 3/4" and 6 1/4". The shorter axle will match the spacing on you're Sports which you can measure and probably turns out to be about 110 mm. The longer axle will space out to about 120 mm which is probably ideal for your Harding.

I don't know where to find axles for these guys, maybe on ebay from time to time, maybe from a trashed hub.

Look at the exploded diagram and notice the two piece shift rod/indicator. These are supposed to be fragile and are, so they say, not easy to find and expensive when they turn up.

I think it may include the the axel... I think.
Heres a few more of the pics from the sale. My local LBS also has a bucket full of strumey archer hubs so I may find some things I need there too.
my Hardings rear spacing WAS 120mm it was cold pressed to fit a standard 700c wheel 130mm. I can have it cold pressed back to the 120 (I know its horrible and a terrible thing to do but of it can take it one more time I swear I'll never do it again!) but if this a 110 mm axle itll be a big stretch back. May be too dangerous to risk it...

edit: it's a 36 hole to answer your first queryhttps://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...361fbc588e.jpg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f06cfbe0fd.jpg

BigChief 08-07-18 05:43 AM


Originally Posted by Buellster (Post 20491618)
Thanks!
I played 69.99, one penny more than the asking price. I think it was a little pricey but I see so few and it's in the original box!

The exploded view FW hub I found at SA heritage shows both 5 1/2 and 6 1/4 axles so this could be either. If this is too short to fit this project, it would still be a great hub for a Sports project. A NOS FM hub at a reasonable price is such a good find that I wouldn't be disappointed if it wasn't right for one project since it would be really nice for the next. Tough to find a good deal on a 4 speed trigger though. People seem to ask a lot for them on fleebay. If you want to keep cost down, damaged shifters can be repaired.

Classtime 08-07-18 06:21 AM

Three Spires
 
I Searched and couldn't find another Three Spires. My son just got this for his girlfriend. He was a little sad a couple years ago when I sold my Triumph to make room for another road bike. 1961 hub date. All original but the tires? Too bad about the handlebars. I wonder how that happened without other damage. The fender stays are super straight which is kinda neat.
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9cd5257b1d.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...848ed73018.jpg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...cb9ebd76c8.jpg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...6ffa4ac49b.jpg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a7c999168c.jpg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...bf0402e8e7.jpg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9133721170.jpg

BigChief 08-07-18 07:05 AM

Three Spires was a Coventry based Bike company absorbed by Raleigh in 1954. So this is a Raleigh built bike from the Nottingham factory. Nice bike. Not always, but usually dulled paint like this will respond nicely to a polishing compound and regain a lot of it's luster although sometimes the oxidation goes to deep for a polish to remove. I'd guess this bike would clean up very well. I'd say it will make a fun and rewarding project.

gster 08-07-18 07:07 AM


Originally Posted by Classtime (Post 20492743)
I Searched and couldn't find another Three Spires. My son just got this for his girlfriend. He was a little sad a couple years ago when I sold my Triumph to make room for another road bike. 1961 hub date. All original but the tires? Too bad about the handlebars. I wonder how that happened without other damage. The fender stays are super straight which is kinda neat.
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9cd5257b1d.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...848ed73018.jpg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...cb9ebd76c8.jpg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...6ffa4ac49b.jpg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a7c999168c.jpg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...bf0402e8e7.jpg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9133721170.jpg

Nice original bike.
The only drawback is those early Raleigh brake calipers.
The proprietary cables are difficult to find (NOS)
and I don't think anyone has a devised an easy/good looking fix.
A metal wall anchor can be used as a "stop" but is not the cleanest solution.
I generally swap out the calipers for the newer design if I
plan to really ride a bike.
A closer look at your photos shows that there's still plenty of
adjustment available on the cables.

BigChief 08-07-18 07:26 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 20492815)
Nice original bike.
The only drawback is those early Raleigh brake calipers.
The proprietary cables are difficult to find (NOS)
and I don't think anyone has a devised an easy/good looking fix.
A metal wall anchor can be used as a "stop" but is not the cleanest solution.
I generally swap out the calipers for the newer design if I
plan to really ride a bike.
A closer look at your photos shows that there's still plenty of
adjustment available on the cables.

I like that this bike is pre plastic parts. Looks like it still has it's embossed brass plate trigger shifter too. Original white, fluted housing, ball end cables are a rare find, but I've had good luck keeping original old cables. I don't have a pressure oiler, but I hang them on a wire and apply light oil to the ends and let it work it's way down the housing. I like that it has it's original cables. Unless they're broken or frayed, I'd keep em. Even then, I would silver solder a ball end on a new inner cable and keep the original housings if they were too damaged.

markk900 08-07-18 08:47 AM

Re: the Raleigh cables and the soldered end....there was a discussion on this a while back but I will say I experimented with a cut down spoke nipple soldered onto a new cable and it was perfect - it fit into the caliper and effectively disappeared; there is a nice crimper that also apparently works well.

BigChief 08-07-18 09:06 AM


Originally Posted by markk900 (Post 20493015)
Re: the Raleigh cables and the soldered end....there was a discussion on this a while back but I will say I experimented with a cut down spoke nipple soldered onto a new cable and it was perfect - it fit into the caliper and effectively disappeared; there is a nice crimper that also apparently works well.

I have heard that about spoke nipples. I plan on trying that the next time I need to replace one of these inner cables. Also, 3/32" brass tubing works great for shifter cables. They fit both the trigger and the barrel adjuster perfectly. In fact, they are a much better fit than the factory crimped ended cables. These don't need soldering. I've been using JB Weld and a very light crimp on these for years now with no failures. There's really no need for pinch bolt adapters at the indicator chain if you don't like them.

desconhecido 08-07-18 10:18 AM


Originally Posted by Classtime (Post 20492743)
Too bad about the handlebars. I wonder how that happened without other damage.

Probably happened in the garage while being stored. Bumped it with the car or something. Those bars are surprisingly fragile considering the steel construction.


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