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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

PeterLYoung 02-27-19 08:52 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 20814193)
I appreciate your drawings.
O.T.
I design sets for film and TV.
This set was all built without the aide of computers,
except the "bubble" lenses on the columns...
Pencils/paper and a good team of carpenters and painters.
There is, of course a set of technical drawings.
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...092dbca578.png

I was originally apprenticed as a Toolmaker in the 60's but spent most of my apprenticeship in the Design Office, designing Jig/Fixtures/Special Purpose Machines & Press Tools mostly for Automotive Industry. I spent most of the rest of my working life in Pharmaceuticals designing Process & Manufacturing Plant and ended up as Head of Engineering at a manufacturing site. Retired for some years now. My drawing skills are somewhat rusty and I had no compasses to draw the circles on the above drawing so they are freehand. Your drawings are far more Artistic than anything I ever did though I always viewed General Assembly Drawings as an Art Form especially (I usually did them in ink using Rotring Pens) as one had to imagine the whole machine to produce the GA drawing, I then detailed the components from the GA.
Regards Peter.

BigChief 02-27-19 09:51 AM


Originally Posted by PeterLYoung (Post 20814141)
Arrived today, my special tool to extract the end cap of BSA 3 Speed inside Brake Drum. Because of the Hub Brake the 3 speed end cap is situated inside the brake drum, too deeply to get an effective wrench purchase on it. BSA had a special tool to extract the end cap but these are probably rarer than Hens Teeth and if anyone has one they probably do not know what it is for. I want to overhaul the 3 Speed while I am restoring the bike so the only way to be able to dismantle the hub was to design my own tool and have it made by a machine shop. I produced a drawing and sent it for quotes and Oakhammer Engineering Ltd of Corby UK contacted me with a very reasonable cost and once I said go ahead made it in 24hrs. It arrived today and is a perfect fit, I will probably start on it tomorrow but here are some photos and my drawing which is free to use by anyone with BSA 3 Speed Hubs to overhaul. Incidentally instead of case hardening the flats they used EN24T which is a tougher steel and perfectly adequate for the amount of use this toll will endure:-


Design Drawing for Extractor Tool.


You can see the two flats on the BSA 3 Speed End Cap.




The tool fits onto the spindle mating with the flats on the end cap and the spindle nut locks it in place. Remember to keep slackening the hub bearings and the tool securing nut to provide space as the end cap is unscrewed.

Good job on the drawing. Expertly done!

Dan Burkhart 02-27-19 10:11 AM


Originally Posted by PeterLYoung (Post 20814141)
Arrived today, my special tool to extract the end cap of BSA 3 Speed inside Brake Drum. Because of the Hub Brake the 3 speed end cap is situated inside the brake drum, too deeply to get an effective wrench purchase on it. BSA had a special tool to extract the end cap but these are probably rarer than Hens Teeth and if anyone has one they probably do not know what it is for. I want to overhaul the 3 Speed while I am restoring the bike so the only way to be able to dismantle the hub was to design my own tool and have it made by a machine shop. I produced a drawing and sent it for quotes and Oakhammer Engineering Ltd of Corby UK contacted me with a very reasonable cost and once I said go ahead made it in 24hrs. It arrived today and is a perfect fit, I will probably start on it tomorrow but here are some photos and my drawing which is free to use by anyone with BSA 3 Speed Hubs to overhaul. Incidentally instead of case hardening the flats they used EN24T which is a tougher steel and perfectly adequate for the amount of use this toll will endure:-

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9a73ab5a60.png
Design Drawing for Extractor Tool.


https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b4bd3f5f4d.jpg
You can see the two flats on the BSA 3 Speed End Cap.


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e35815c6e9.png

The tool fits onto the spindle mating with the flats on the end cap and the spindle nut locks it in place. Remember to keep slackening the hub bearings and the tool securing nut to provide space as the end cap is unscrewed.

Great job! I've only explored one BSA hub ever, and it was not a drum brake model, but I will keep your drawing as a reference should the need ever come up.

Dan Burkhart 02-27-19 10:13 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 20814193)
I appreciate your drawings.
O.T.
I design sets for film and TV.
This set was all built without the aide of computers,
except the "bubble" lenses on the columns...
Pencils/paper and a good team of carpenters and painters.
There is, of course a set of technical drawings.
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...092dbca578.png
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4a6be62c49.jpg

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...3493b196a4.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...3f12ecbf8a.jpg

Very cool. Is that from a movie we might recognize?

3speedslow 02-27-19 10:20 AM

Awesome! An old tool has been reborn. We are always lucky to have technical members present in this vintage hobby! Everybody has a skill to bring to this work we do on our steeds. We are all the richer!

PeterLYoung 02-27-19 11:48 AM


Originally Posted by Dan Burkhart (Post 20814349)
Great job! I've only explored one BSA hub ever, and it was not a drum brake model, but I will keep your drawing as a reference should the need ever come up.

I think the internals are identical as I have a spare that I have dismantled as a practice exercise and I don't see any real difference. BSA copied the Sturmey Archer 'X' type under a licence granted by SA in 1907 if my memory is correct and never really made any improvements manufacturing it up until the early fifties as I understand it when they switched to the SA AW unless others know better than I). My understanding is that it was a very reliable design. I am only dismantling this one from my 1936 BSA to give it a good internal clean/inspection & lube as I am restoring the bike. It has been working perfectly.

Adding the drum brake makes it necessary to have a special tool to extract the N/S end plate. The normal one can be got off with a large adjustable spanner.

Dan Burkhart 02-27-19 12:17 PM


Originally Posted by PeterLYoung (Post 20814542)
I think the internals are identical as I have a spare that I have dismantled as a practice exercise and I don't see any real difference. BSA copied the Sturmey Archer 'X' type under a licence granted by SA in 1907 if my memory is correct and never really made any improvements manufacturing it up until the early fifties as I understand it when the switched to the SA AW 9unless others know better than I). My understanding is that it was a very reliable design. I am only dismantling this one from my 1936 BSA to give it a good internal clean/inspection & lube as I am restoring the bike. It has been working perfectly.

Adding the drum brake makes it necessary to have a special tool to extract the N/S end plate. The normal one can be got off with a large adjustable spanner.

Yes, the internals look to be an identical design to the Sturmey Archer X model, which I have only seen drawings of, have not actually had one in my grubby little hands.
There are couple of critical elements to the assembly procedure which I demonstrated in this video. I think I shared this here before. It's the only video on Youtube showing detail of a BSA hub as far as I am aware.
The reason the hub came to me in the first place is the owner tried to overhaul it himself, and missed the part about ensuring the high speed pawls were seated up on the running track, and they were jammed against it.


gster 02-27-19 01:11 PM


Originally Posted by PeterLYoung (Post 20814141)
Arrived today, my special tool to extract the end cap of BSA 3 Speed inside Brake Drum. Because of the Hub Brake the 3 speed end cap is situated inside the brake drum, too deeply to get an effective wrench purchase on it. BSA had a special tool to extract the end cap but these are probably rarer than Hens Teeth and if anyone has one they probably do not know what it is for. I want to overhaul the 3 Speed while I am restoring the bike so the only way to be able to dismantle the hub was to design my own tool and have it made by a machine shop. I produced a drawing and sent it for quotes and Oakhammer Engineering Ltd of Corby UK contacted me with a very reasonable cost and once I said go ahead made it in 24hrs. It arrived today and is a perfect fit, I will probably start on it tomorrow but here are some photos and my drawing which is free to use by anyone with BSA 3 Speed Hubs to overhaul. Incidentally instead of case hardening the flats they used EN24T which is a tougher steel and perfectly adequate for the amount of use this toll will endure:-

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9a73ab5a60.png
Design Drawing for Extractor Tool.


https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b4bd3f5f4d.jpg
You can see the two flats on the BSA 3 Speed End Cap.


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e35815c6e9.png

The tool fits onto the spindle mating with the flats on the end cap and the spindle nut locks it in place. Remember to keep slackening the hub bearings and the tool securing nut to provide space as the end cap is unscrewed.

This forum seems to have changed formats....again.
Not sure where the new topic tab is...
Newly listed on Toronto Kijiji.
Could be a Dunelt? @ $150.00
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8626d09c0c.jpg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...eac1a98751.jpg

nlerner 02-27-19 01:37 PM

Speaking of odd internal gear hubs, this one came to me a few days ago. It's obviously missing some crucial components, such as the axle, but anyone recognize what it might be?

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7817/...3272d0a1_c.jpg

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7921/...fe7c9dbe_c.jpg

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7847/...5f56a5d5_c.jpg

3speedslow 02-27-19 02:34 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 20814736)
This forum seems to have changed formats....again.
Not sure where the new topic tab is...
Newly listed on Toronto Kijiji.
Could be a Dunelt? @ $150.00
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8626d09c0c.jpg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...eac1a98751.jpg

Looks like a very early 60ís model. It has the white paint on the tubes.

Dan Burkhart 02-27-19 03:27 PM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 20814806)
Speaking of odd internal gear hubs, this one came to me a few days ago. It's obviously missing some crucial components, such as the axle, but anyone recognize what it might be?

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7817/...3272d0a1_c.jpg

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7921/...fe7c9dbe_c.jpg

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7847/...5f56a5d5_c.jpg

Looks like BSA internals, which are a copy of Sturmey Archer X model.

clubman 02-27-19 05:51 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 20814736)
This forum seems to have changed formats....again.
Not sure where the new topic tab is...
Newly listed on Toronto Kijiji.
Could be a Dunelt? @ $150.00
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8626d09c0c.jpg

Looks like a souped up Glider but the right fork light attachment is weird.

Re: forum appearance, you likely slipped into mobile mode. Look for pull down menu upper left and switch to Full Site

gster 02-27-19 07:10 PM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 20815230)
Looks like a souped up Glider but the right fork light attachment is weird.

Re: forum appearance, you likely slipped into mobile mode. Look for pull down menu upper left and switch to Full Site

Yes, I'm in Mexico and it somehow switched.
Yes, it is a Glider.
I should have known.
I had the same one through here a few years ago with the
same bracket...and same colour.
I suspect that they were sometimes assembled from the parts bins...
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...0103929255.jpg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2994f2ea79.jpg

nlerner 02-27-19 09:25 PM


Originally Posted by Dan Burkhart (Post 20815014)
Looks like BSA internals, which are a copy of Sturmey Archer X model.

Ah, yes, that's it! Thanks, Dan.

PeterLYoung 02-28-19 04:37 PM


Originally Posted by Dan Burkhart (Post 20815014)
Looks like BSA internals, which are a copy of Sturmey Archer X model.

Yes Dan: I agree, just assembled two BSA 3 Speeds today and those parts are identical. This is the 1936 roadster one dissembled but now cleaned, lubricated & adjusted, back together and working correctly.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...49d0399236.jpg
This is my 1936 BSA roadster BSA 3 Speed.

paulb_in_bkln 02-28-19 04:52 PM


Originally Posted by PeterLYoung (Post 20816659)
Yes Dan: I agree, just assembled two BSA 3 Speeds today and those parts are identical. This is the 1936 roadster one dissembled but now cleaned, lubricated & adjusted, back together and working correctly.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...49d0399236.jpg
This is my 1936 BSA roadster BSA 3 Speed.

Did the cap put up a struggle against your new tool? (Why couldn't they just make the flats a little deeper so you get purchase with a wrench?)

PS Oh wait, I see it's recessed and you can't reach the flats with a wrench.

gster 02-28-19 08:44 PM


Originally Posted by Dan Burkhart (Post 20814356)
Very cool. Is that from a movie we might recognize?

It's a new CBC/Netflix show called
Northern Rescue that should premier any day now...
the sets are good.

Dan Burkhart 02-28-19 10:59 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 20816933)
It's a new CBC/Netflix show called
Northern Rescue that should premier any day now...
the sets are good.

I'll have to watch for that, thanks.

PeterLYoung 03-01-19 02:03 AM


Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln (Post 20816679)
Did the cap put up a struggle against your new tool? (Why couldn't they just make the flats a little deeper so you get purchase with a wrench?)

PS Oh wait, I see it's recessed and you can't reach the flats with a wrench.

Yes Dan the flats are deep inside the brake drum. The tool works brilliantly, I removed the N/S Bearing put the tool on and secured it with a wheel nut. I then turned the wheel over and clamped the tool in the vice and rotated the wheel (Left Hand Thread) and it released immediately. This tool would even be a help with a normal hub as it provides such a secure method of release.

Steve Bauserman 03-03-19 06:49 PM

1936 Hetchins Brilliant with Sturmey Archer K hub, Resillion brakes, Chater Lea chainset and pedals, Brooks B17 saddle and Dunlop lightweight rims.

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a64c85637.jpeg


clubman 03-03-19 06:54 PM


Originally Posted by Steve Bauserman (Post 20821079)
[left]

Awesome bike, kit, photo and beard! :thumb:

BigChief 03-03-19 07:28 PM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 20821092)
Awesome bike, kit, photo and beard! :thumb:

+1 Wow, what a bike. I'd love to learn more about it if you feel up to typing.

butch50 03-03-19 07:37 PM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 20821092)
Awesome bike, kit, photo and beard! :thumb:

Seconded. :thumb:

Steve Bauserman 03-03-19 07:56 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20821156)
+1 Wow, what a bike. I'd love to learn more about it if you feel up to typing.

The bike is one of the few known prewar Hetchins and very, very few unrestored, original bikes as verified by the Hetchins registry. It was ordered in 1936 and delivered in 1937 hence the K7 hub. The frame is built of Reynolds HM tubing which is the precursor to 531 originally finished forest green with a chrome fork. The handlebars are Lauterwasser with an unknown stem type and Brittania reproduction grips as the Constrictor grips were too worn to use. Tires are modern Schwalbe 597-32 that resemble the period Dunlop or Michelin. The bottom bracket is a Brampton. The headset is an integrated Chater Lea. The hubs are fastened with period correct front and rear Sturmey Archer wingnuts. The seatpost is a domed one. Last, the front hub is a Bayliss Wiley.

I have put about 50 miles on the bike over that last few weeks.

squirtdad 03-03-19 08:02 PM


Originally Posted by Steve Bauserman (Post 20821079)
1936 Hetchins Brilliant with Sturmey Archer K hub, Resillion brakes, Chater Lea chain setbipedal, Brooks B17 saddle and Dunlop lightweight rims.

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a64c85637.jpeg

Yehuda Moon :)


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