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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

Velognome 09-22-12 07:54 PM


Question here: how much do you add? Do you have to do this annually? I added a good quality 30W engine oil to it.
A small amount, perhaps an 1/8th of a teaspoon. When it's just right, the pawls click crisply; too much and they sound dead, too little and they sound dry & metalic. Don't fear, if you add too much, it will find it's way out and overfilling is not damaging to the hub.

Andrew T 09-22-12 11:05 PM

Sometimes craigslist makes me cry....

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/ant...274614711.html

jrecoi 09-23-12 07:50 AM


Originally Posted by Andrew T (Post 14764101)
Sometimes craigslist makes me cry....

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/ant...274614711.html

But I thought that Raleigh Twenties were still in the category of being modded nilly willy. The rattlecan repaint was not well executed, but the idea wasn't that bad. The seller ain't going to get much money for it though.

wahoonc 09-23-12 08:36 AM


Originally Posted by jrecoi (Post 14764646)
But I thought that Raleigh Twenties were still in the category of being modded nilly willy. The rattlecan repaint was not well executed, but the idea wasn't that bad. The seller ain't going to get much money for it though.

But they are selling on eBay for $500! :innocent::rolleyes:

Aaron :)

conradpdx 09-23-12 11:49 AM


Originally Posted by Andrew T (Post 14764101)
Sometimes craigslist makes me cry....

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/ant...274614711.html


whyyyyyyyyyyyyy.

Looking for a tissue to dry the eyes right now....

BRAZUCA 09-23-12 01:28 PM

Thank you for the reply, definitely I put too much oil since I can no longer hear the "tic-tic-tic" of the hub. I will let some come out which is a good idea since I'm not sure if there was old oil in there. After that I can adjust the quantity again and refill if needed. Good to know that overfilling is not damaging to the hub. Great reply Velognome.


Originally Posted by Velognome (Post 14763672)
A small amount, perhaps an 1/8th of a teaspoon. When it's just right, the pawls click crisply; too much and they sound dead, too little and they sound dry & metalic. Don't fear, if you add too much, it will find it's way out and overfilling is not damaging to the hub.


Andrew T 09-23-12 04:51 PM

6 Attachment(s)
Picked up an Armstrong a few months ago in the desert and I'm trying to figure out more about it. The Sturmey Archer is an AW but there is no date stamped on it?? It's a mens style frame and has the same binder bolt position as this one: http://www.flickr.com/photos/nanobikerdotcom/413925901/ , - but it has no logos on it and mine has 'ARMSTRONG' spelled in the chainring, and connections for a frame pump...the front wheel is french, looks to be 27" and has butterfly wing nuts holding it on, it's old as well. Rear rim is schwinn tubular s6 ?? But has a 26 x 1 1/4 clincher tire on it? ...

Attached some photos - any ideas as to it's age? Judging by a post here, http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/356293-English-3-Speed-Armstrong-amp-Raleigh , it looks to be 194#-1960...birmingham = pre-raleigh owned armstrong...

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=274510http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=274514http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=274515http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=274516http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=274517http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=274518


Sitting on it before I stripped it- sizing felt ok from bb/seat tube , but the top tube felt soooo short! Is this normal for the older bikes?




Second line of questioning- refurbishing a 1964 raleigh sports, I love the creme colored brake lines...I really don't want to put brand new white ones one , are there any manufacturers making creme colored lines? Any die I could use to create the look? Should I just keep them, as they work great....??


fun fun fun... :)

clubman 09-23-12 05:17 PM

It's a nice pre Raleigh Armstrong without it's wheelset. Could be older than you think but it's always tough to date 3 speeds. The SA hub is likely 80's...they stopped dating them around then. S-6 tubulars are indeed 26 x 1 1/4" clinchers. Stoopid nomenclature on Schwinns part. You can build it any way you want although SA hubs are de rigeur on this thread.

Re cream cable housings. I don't know of anyone making the nice ribbed housings although many were smooth too. I hang on to those...try to get your lbs to save them for you?

auchencrow 09-23-12 06:23 PM


Originally Posted by Andrew T (Post 14766023)
Picked up an Armstrong a few months ago in the desert and I'm trying to figure out more about it. The Sturmey Archer is an AW but there is no date stamped on it?? It's a men's style frame and has the same binder bolt position as this one: http://www.flickr.com/photos/nanobikerdotcom/413925901/ , - but it has no logos on it and mine has 'ARMSTRONG' spelled in the chain-ring, and connections for a frame pump...the front wheel is french, looks to be 27" and has butterfly wing nuts holding it on, it's old as well. Rear rim is schwinn tubular s6 ?? But has a 26 x 1 1/4 clincher tire on it? ...

Attached some photos - any ideas as to it's age? Judging by a post here, http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...ng-amp-Raleigh , it looks to be 194#-1960...birmingham = pre-raleigh owned armstrong...

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=274510http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=274514http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=274515http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=274516http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=274517http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=274518


Sitting on it before I stripped it- sizing felt ok from bb/seat tube , but the top tube felt soooo short! Is this normal for the older bikes?




Second line of questioning- refurbishing a 1964 raleigh sports, I love the creme colored brake lines...I really don't want to put brand new white ones one , are there any manufacturers making creme colored lines? Any die I could use to create the look? Should I just keep them, as they work great....??


fun fun fun... :)

FWIW, the lugs and head badge and apparently the "Armstrong" chain wheel are very similar to my '51 ("Gent's Model"?).
The original rims would have been Dunlop, not Schwinn, which may explain why the AW hub is undated.
Your thimbled fork crown however is distinct - most Armstrongs I have seen share a chromed fork crown cap.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/h...ng1951018a.jpg
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/h...ng1951019a.jpg

I've not stumbled on any cream-colored housing. If your originals are in good condition and you like the look, you might just get away with lubing them internally along with some slick cables.

Velognome 09-23-12 08:23 PM

Lugs on the Armstrong look pre-60's, the eyelets on the dropouts post 50 so I ould bet mid - 50's frame......wish I had a desert to pull bikes out of!

http://www.bikeforums.net/attachment...5&d=1348440655

Andrew T 09-24-12 12:40 AM

Excellent...

Do you have a shot of the fork that you are talking about? I've just ordered some vintage bars/stem off ebay that will replace the ones it came with on there (stem was cracked in two, bars were ape hangers...ugh...) and I'll keep it with it's rat rod style. Hopefully it's not too tiny for me to ride...I love the old patina but wonder if it was painted black at one point- seeing your head tube emblem with different colors...


I read somewhere that using dish soap + water, then car wax on top is the best way to go for cleaning up the frame...What kind of car wax, carnauba? I may be pestering you guys soon about how to fix this rear hub, it has no chain dangling out of it...hopefully sheldon can bring me through it.

Thanks again

Velognome 09-24-12 05:02 AM

No worry about pestering, we're all here to share experinces. You're right about a good washing, but then I like to finish old black English frames off with black shoe polish. Seems to hide a multitude of nicks and scratches and gives the frame a soft glow. I use Kiwi, cuz my pop always had a can or two about the house but any hard paste type will do.

thunderworks 09-24-12 07:01 AM

I'd also recommend that you use a lighter oil - perhaps 20wt., non-detergent oil.

R.


Originally Posted by BRAZUCA (Post 14765477)
Thank you for the reply, definitely I put too much oil since I can no longer hear the "tic-tic-tic" of the hub. I will let some come out which is a good idea since I'm not sure if there was old oil in there. After that I can adjust the quantity again and refill if needed. Good to know that overfilling is not damaging to the hub. Great reply Velognome.


SirMike1983 09-24-12 07:08 AM

The original spec stuff was basically SAE 20 oil in a can with a small spout. 3 in 1 makes SAE 20 oil in the form of its "blue can" "motor" oil product. I've used 10w-30 in the past with no problems either, but have since located a stock of 3-in-1 blue. Do not use the 3-in-1 black/white/red can standard because it can congeal due to its composition- stick with blue can "motor". I add a few drops once per month.

yellowbarber 09-24-12 08:40 AM

I have an early 60s Armstrong hanging on the hook waiting to get reassembled. I have most everything I need xept tires. It came in with S6 Kendas, and I admit to the fiscal foolishness of being a tire snob.
After an extensive search, it turns out that our friends at Schwalbe make a tire for just about any rim you can come up with. And voila:
http://store.schwalbe.co.uk/products...1.106967.0.0.0

Shipping is going to be a bit of a beat-down, so I'm considering getting a few pairs and push them off on the Schwinn weenies in my neighborhood....or not.

BRAZUCA 09-24-12 08:54 AM

I like the shoe polish idea, I will try that as well, thanks Velognonme.


Originally Posted by Velognome (Post 14767315)
No worry about pestering, we're all here to share experinces. You're right about a good washing, but then I like to finish old black English frames off with black shoe polish. Seems to hide a multitude of nicks and scratches and gives the frame a soft glow. I use Kiwi, cuz my pop always had a can or two about the house but any hard paste type will do.


BRAZUCA 09-24-12 08:54 AM

Thanks, good to know about the SAE 20 oil type. I'll keep that in mind.

BRAZUCA 09-24-12 08:56 AM

I'll see if I can find this 3-in-1 blue SAE 20. Thanks again folks. 3 speed is all new for me and I'm willing to learn, I love this thing.


Originally Posted by SirMike1983 (Post 14767582)
The original spec stuff was basically SAE 20 oil in a can with a small spout. 3 in 1 makes SAE 20 oil in the form of its "blue can" "motor" oil product. I've used 10w-30 in the past with no problems either, but have since located a stock of 3-in-1 blue. Do not use the 3-in-1 black/white/red can standard because it can congeal due to its composition- stick with blue can "motor". I add a few drops once per month.


BRAZUCA 09-24-12 08:59 AM

I believe this is the 3-in-one oil you are talking about.

http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/...ps3a8a84a8.jpg


Originally Posted by SirMike1983 (Post 14767582)
The original spec stuff was basically SAE 20 oil in a can with a small spout. 3 in 1 makes SAE 20 oil in the form of its "blue can" "motor" oil product. I've used 10w-30 in the past with no problems either, but have since located a stock of 3-in-1 blue. Do not use the 3-in-1 black/white/red can standard because it can congeal due to its composition- stick with blue can "motor". I add a few drops once per month.


Chris_in_Miami 09-24-12 09:21 AM


Originally Posted by yellowbarber (Post 14767893)
I have an early 60s Armstrong hanging on the hook waiting to get reassembled. I have most everything I need xept tires. It came in with S6 Kendas, and I admit to the fiscal foolishness of being a tire snob.
After an extensive search, it turns out that our friends at Schwalbe make a tire for just about any rim you can come up with. And voila:
http://store.schwalbe.co.uk/products...1.106967.0.0.0

Shipping is going to be a bit of a beat-down, so I'm considering getting a few pairs and push them off on the Schwinn weenies in my neighborhood....or not.

If you're serious about your tire snobbery, you might be better off replacing the wheels with the proper ISO 590 size, that would give you much better tire options.

auchencrow 09-24-12 05:47 PM


Originally Posted by Andrew T (Post 14767152)
Excellent...

Do you have a shot of the fork that you are talking about? I've just ordered some vintage bars/stem off ebay that will replace the ones it came with on there (stem was cracked in two, bars were ape hangers...ugh...) and I'll keep it with it's rat rod style. Hopefully it's not too tiny for me to ride...I love the old patina but wonder if it was painted black at one point- seeing your head tube emblem with different colors...


I read somewhere that using dish soap + water, then car wax on top is the best way to go for cleaning up the frame...What kind of car wax, carnauba? I may be pestering you guys soon about how to fix this rear hub, it has no chain dangling out of it...hopefully sheldon can bring me through it.

Thanks again


Andrew - I don't have a clear shot of just the fork crown cap, but there's a bit of it here.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/h...ng1951017a.jpg


Insofar as reckoning what parts you need to complete your Sturmey Archer AW hub, this graphic has been tremendously useful for many.

http://members.westnet.com.au/derren...erAW3speed.gif


For car wax, I really like Meguiar's Tech Wax.

SirMike1983 09-24-12 05:59 PM


Originally Posted by BRAZUCA (Post 14767990)
I believe this is the 3-in-one oil you are talking about.

http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/...ps3a8a84a8.jpg

That's it- I've never seen that graphic on the bottle before, but that's the stuff. I've seen this graphic more commonly:

http://www.hardwareworld.com/files/pi/bV/D/7OAI.jpg

Same thing though- SAE 20.

noglider 09-24-12 06:26 PM

Andrew T, yes, I believe these bikes normally have very short top tubes. Also, the handlebars sweep back. Maybe the top tubes aren't terribly short, but the stem and handlebars make them effectively very short.

From advice I got here on bikeforums, I generally use automatic transmission fluid (ATF) for most of my bike needs. I mentioned this to my car mechanic, and he said that ATF is designed to "hold particles in suspension" which I think should make it suitable for chains and gear hubs. Get the grit out off the surfaces that mate, right?

Sixty Fiver 09-24-12 09:05 PM


Originally Posted by Chris_in_Miami (Post 14768085)
If you're serious about your tire snobbery, you might be better off replacing the wheels with the proper ISO 590 size, that would give you much better tire options.

The 26 by 1 / 597 could be the proper size for the bike.

rhm 09-25-12 06:16 AM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 14770237)
Andrew T, yes, I believe these bikes normally have very short top tubes. Also, the handlebars sweep back. Maybe the top tubes aren't terribly short, but the stem and handlebars make them effectively very short.

Right, more the latter than the former. It's really a question of frame geometry. These old English bikes have a very slack seat tube angle, like 68[SUP]o[/SUP], even if the head tube is steeper. The slack seat tube makes the top tube relatively long, like as much as an inch longer than what you'd expect on a modern bike.

A lot of these bikes, until the late 30's anyway, had a gallows-type seat post, which puts the seat an inch or two in front of the post. When they have a conventional post with clamp at the top, the clamp is mounted to the front of the post, which puts the seat about two inches farther forward than you'd expect.

And then there's the stem. Most of these bikes have a shorter stem than you'd find on a more modern bike.

So when you get on the bike, the combination of a slightly longer top tube, unconventional seat mounting, and short stem, results in what feels like a cramped cockpit. If you want to change this, start with a longer stem and before you play around with where you want the seat. You don't want the seat to be too far back from the pedals.

yellowbarber 09-25-12 09:47 AM


Originally Posted by yellowbarber (Post 14767893)
I... It came in with S6 Kendas, and I admit to the fiscal foolishness of being a tire snob
...

duh, I meant S5, 26 x 1

Chris_in_Miami 09-25-12 10:21 AM


Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver (Post 14770789)
The 26 by 1 / 597 could be the proper size for the bike.

Ah, you're correct. I confused yellowbarber's bike with Andrew T's, which seems to have Schwinn wheels.

Andrew T 09-25-12 08:42 PM

Haven't seen many raleigh colt's talked about in here, this is too rich for my blood but maybe someone in socal???

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst...294465726.html

gmt13 09-26-12 10:16 AM


Originally Posted by Andrew T (Post 14774918)
Haven't seen many raleigh colt's talked about in here, this is too rich for my blood but maybe someone in socal???

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst...294465726.html


"Good for another thousand miles of intense riding?"
I'm not going to shell out $400 for something that may not last till the end of the year.

yellowbarber 09-26-12 11:53 AM


Originally Posted by Andrew T (Post 14774918)
Haven't seen many raleigh colt's talked about in here, this is too rich for my blood but maybe someone in socal???

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst...294465726.html

<< This bicycle is only available until the night of September 28th, so act quickly!>>
I wonder what happens after Sept 28? The bike turns back into a pumpkin?


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