Bike Forums

Bike Forums (https://www.bikeforums.net/forum.php)
-   Classic & Vintage (https://www.bikeforums.net/forumdisplay.php?f=181)
-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

noglider 01-16-15 01:00 PM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 17474898)
Physics.

Wise guy. The lever travel is about the same, and so is the pad travel. Is a lot of energy lost in the rod linkages?

Velocivixen 01-16-15 01:07 PM

@sloar - fantastic find! I hope you do a thread for it. I'm very interested to see & learn more, as I'm just finishing mine.


There's a wire on my SA front headlight, holding the lens part onto the body part of the light. Supposed to be a little bolt/nut, so I tried metric with no success - wrong threading. Went to hardware store & bought 6/32" which was the perfect diameter - wrong threading again! Is this WHITWORTH again?! Body of light holds a magnet, so maybe steel. Think I'm going to go get a tap & re-tap the threads. Advice??

Also waiting for clear heat shrink tubing to re-do shifter cable since the entire thing is too short and I broke 2-3 threads of the wire while trying to get it out of the shifter body.

i used the actual Park cotter pin press to push the cotter pins in deeper so the nut would engage on more threads with great success. In the meantime I bought more pins along with a single cut 8" "B*****d file".

crank_addict 01-16-15 01:24 PM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 17474860)
Why do rod brakes work so badly?

Disregard for the moment, pad compounds, steel rim, etc..

Its about being half the clamping force. The force is pushed one way vs. a side fighting side.

sloar 01-16-15 01:26 PM

They are whitworth, luckily I have the tools from a triumph chopper I built several years ago. Only two problems so far, the stem had to be cut out, but I have a replacement and the cotter pins were a *****. But nothing my "big a@# vise" couldn't handle.

Slash5 01-16-15 01:35 PM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 17475462)
Also waiting for clear heat shrink tubing to re-do shifter cable since the entire thing is too short and I broke 2-3 threads of the wire while trying to get it out of the shifter body.

Is the heat shrink to go over the exposed shifter cable? I'm just about to replace a shifter cable and I was just going to leave the cable as is - exposed. The old one has a coating of some sort. Is there a reason I should have the covering?

Velocivixen 01-16-15 01:42 PM


Originally Posted by Slash5 (Post 17475542)
Is the heat shrink to go over the exposed shifter cable? I'm just about to replace a shifter cable and I was just going to leave the cable as is - exposed. The old one has a coating of some sort. Is there a reason I should have the covering?

I'm doing the heat shrink tubing because my original one has tubing on the exposed part. I think with new cables rust wouldn't be an issue. I'm doing it for the experience & for the "vintage" aspect. Earlier in this thread, or maybe in my other thread about the "1955 Phillips" I linked a thread from Auchencrow from a few years back where he details the steps for doing this. But, no, you don't need the tubing on the cable.

Salubrious 01-16-15 01:52 PM


Originally Posted by sloar (Post 17475219)
Hub is dated 1954.

Sweet.


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 17475462)
There's a wire on my SA front headlight, holding the lens part onto the body part of the light. Supposed to be a little bolt/nut, so I tried metric with no success - wrong threading. Went to hardware store & bought 6/32" which was the perfect diameter - wrong threading again! Is this WHITWORTH again?! Body of light holds a magnet, so maybe steel. Think I'm going to go get a tap & re-tap the threads. Advice??

Also waiting for clear heat shrink tubing to re-do shifter cable since the entire thing is too short and I broke 2-3 threads of the wire while trying to get it out of the shifter body.

i used the actual Park cotter pin press to push the cotter pins in deeper so the nut would engage on more threads with great success. In the meantime I bought more pins along with a single cut 8" "B*****d file".

Yes- likely Whitworth. You can expect that on any British mechanical hardware made before the 1970s or so. There are variations in not only thread pitch, but the shape of the threads themselves. If you tap it for an English (American) thread, don't tell anyone :) most of all not us...

Good work on the cotter pins. If you have 1/4" to 3/8" of the cotter pin exposed on the non-nutted side you are in good shape.

BTW I noticed that you have a plastic cable pulley for the shift cable. A bike that old was originally equipped with a metal pulley, which you can get from the gentleman cyclist, jon@gentlemancyclist.com

crank_addict 01-16-15 02:15 PM

For shifter / cable pulley roller, go to an Ace Hardware and sort thru the drawers for the little pulley's. Sliding screen door lower rollers work but you might have to make some small bushing.

other: Cable without plastic sheath for early bikes. Replacement new Weinmann can be shaved off revealing the metal coiling. Just coat with an aerosol spray and wipe wax or simply a rust preventive formula. I much prefer this look and its so easy to maintain without removing for lube.

Velocivixen 01-16-15 03:23 PM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 17475589)
Sweet.



Yes- likely Whitworth. You can expect that on any British mechanical hardware made before the 1970s or so. There are variations in not only thread pitch, but the shape of the threads themselves. If you tap it for an English (American) thread, don't tell anyone :) most of all not us...

Good work on the cotter pins. If you have 1/4" to 3/8" of the cotter pin exposed on the non-nutted side you are in good shape.

BTW I noticed that you have a plastic cable pulley for the shift cable. A bike that old was originally equipped with a metal pulley, which you can get from the gentleman cyclist, jon@gentlemancyclist.com

. The cable pulley is fully metal. I've taken every nut, bolt, clip, etc. off the bike and no plastic parts.:thumb:

markk900 01-16-15 03:47 PM

@sloar: awesome and very original looking find. I am working on my 49 "Light sports" (ie. no full chaincase).


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 17475203)
...gave me an excuse to fit it with CR18s, after I found a hub from the right period (early 1950s). The Gent's was in deplorable condition and from the looks of it did not clean up as well as yours will. It got CR18s as well. It came with a 4-speed alloy hub; I put Continental City Rides (37-590, 26 x 13/8", 650A whatever) on it, and I have to say I was amazed at what a fine ride it is- a lot faster than it looks and very confidence inspiring.

I am anxiously awaiting my CR18s and Panaracer Col de Vie's which have cleared customs and are supposedly on their way to me. Will be a fun project to replace the original rims, much as I like them, but the braking surfaces are crap with rust.

dweenk 01-16-15 03:57 PM

@Velocivixen
i used the actual Park cotter pin press to push the cotter pins in deeper so the nut would engage on more threads with great success. In the meantime I bought more pins along with a single cut 8" "B*****d file".

If you call it a love child file, it slides right past the censors.





Velocivixen 01-16-15 06:24 PM

I originally just changed out the brake cables & pads & used same housing, but with copious amounts of Tri-Flow inside. Rear brake was horrible, front OK. Today changed out to new, modern brake housing and OMG! My brakes are awesome, even the back. So, if you've got brakes that are only "so-so" then maybe this would help.

pakman 01-17-15 12:16 PM

This Humber reminds me of the first real bicycle I had. My father obtained an old Humber bicycle with the full chain case. rod brakes, fenders with the white paint on the rear. S-A three speed and a Brooks B-17 saddle. This bike was the ticket to freedom for a young guy in the early 60's. At the time all you could find about this bike that it was English and I never knew the model. I wish I still had it.

Velocivixen 01-17-15 12:32 PM

Question re: SA 3-speed shifting:

SA manual says, "continue pedaling, but ease pressure on the pedals...". When I do this the shifter is a tiny bit hard to shift (it's been cleaned & lubricated). However when I STOP pedaling then shift, the shifter moves the wire with no resistance and it works like a charm 100%.

How do you all shift? How's it work for you? Thanks.

Bandera 01-17-15 12:50 PM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 17477912)
However when I STOP pedaling then shift, the shifter moves the wire with no resistance and it works like a charm 100%.

That's the ticket for smooth long wearing operation, the bits 'n bobs inside the hub shell are whizzing about like a solar system on meth.
Stopping pedaling for a moment allows a smooth load-less mesh of the internal gizmos.
I even back-pedal a touch at times when I've got a big load on the drivetrain and must shift.

-Bandera

Velocivixen 01-17-15 01:18 PM


Originally Posted by Bandera (Post 17477951)
That's the ticket for smooth long wearing operation, the bits 'n bobs inside the hub shell are whizzing about like a solar system on meth.
Stopping pedaling for a moment allows a smooth load-less mesh of the internal gizmos.
I even back-pedal a touch at times when I've got a big load on the drivetrain and must shift.

-Bandera

OK, excellent, so I'm not crazy. (Statement not question;)). Why do you think SA instructs riders to ease up on pedaling? Why don't they just say to stop pedaling for a second or give the rider 2 options? There is a significant difference in shifter feel, shifting while pedaling vs coasting.

Bandera 01-17-15 01:43 PM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 17478029)
Why do you think SA instructs riders to ease up on pedaling? .

It was an inherit unwillingness of the British to appear to have an un-manly dainty technology that required coasting to shift properly while the Continental derailleur system demanded staunch continuous pedaling to accomplish the same action. One must keep up appearances, must one not? :twitchy:

-Bandera

dweenk 01-17-15 02:48 PM

I just found a convenient oiler for my 3-speeds and a couple of other machines around the property. I bought it today without shopping to much - you may find it cheaper at other locations.

dlsales@dutton-lainson.com

Salubrious 01-17-15 03:49 PM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 17477912)
SA manual says, "continue pedaling, but ease pressure on the pedals...". When I do this the shifter is a tiny bit hard to shift (it's been cleaned & lubricated). However when I STOP pedaling then shift, the shifter moves the wire with no resistance and it works like a charm 100%.

How do you all shift? How's it work for you? Thanks.

I keep pedaling, but make sure that I am pedaling a bit slower than needed to deliver power. Shifting is immediate. I experience no difference in shifting if I just simply coast. When I first started riding the hub after rebuilding the bike, it was not so accommodating- I had to coast just a tiny bit to get the shift. So the hub might need to just get ridden a bit.

So- how do you like the ride??

noglider 01-17-15 05:12 PM

One fun thing about IGHs is that you can careen to a stoplight in high gear, stop, and then shift to first while stopped.

Bandera 01-17-15 07:21 PM

The key to operating the Sturmey Archer IGH drivetrains is to remain well within the operational parameters of a full-on Lands End-John 'O Groats timed record attempt during a Luftwaffe Blitz and a mild plooter by an elderly parson across the village on a sunny April morning to preside at the funeral of a gouty local peer.

A modicum of haste and a bit of dignified indolence are applied in equal measure for best performance.

-Bandera

Velocivixen 01-17-15 07:40 PM

@Salubrious - the ride seems nice. Still dialing it in, saddle, etc. The new brake housing is fantastic! It will be nicer once I get the 22T cog. Bought a 1/8" ss chain today.
@noglider - yes I've read you could do that. Is it an "optimal" way to shift though? I mean will it put undue stress on the innards?
@Bandera - I don't know what you do in life, but you sure have a colorful way with words. I like it!

Took front wheel to LBS to see about a wheel Truing problem. Couldn't get it all the way true with a funny spot. They checked it and said there was a "flat" spot affecting an area about 6" long. They said I did a good job with the rest of the wheel, but nothing to do. So....since I've wanted to build a wheel and have been acquiring all the tools, I ordered CR18 26 x 1 3/8" rims from Sugarwheelworks and will be them Thursday. I'll buy 14 gauge spokes, brass nipples from them when I go pick up the rim.

Just finished reading "The Wheel" , Jobst Brandt. I think I can do a reasonable job on a front wheel.

noglider 01-17-15 07:56 PM

Shifting while stopped is just fine.

Number_6 01-17-15 09:28 PM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 17477912)
Question re: SA 3-speed shifting:

SA manual says, "continue pedaling, but ease pressure on the pedals...". When I do this the shifter is a tiny bit hard to shift (it's been cleaned & lubricated). However when I STOP pedaling then shift, the shifter moves the wire with no resistance and it works like a charm 100%.

How do you all shift? How's it work for you? Thanks.

I'll say it like this- when you shift, take the load off the crank. You can pedal backward, stop or pedal forward slower- all will make for some play or slack in the drivetrain since it's not loaded with your pedal power. Then the SA will happily go where you want it to (if it is not ill...).

adventurepdx 01-18-15 11:05 AM


Originally Posted by dweenk (Post 17478197)
I just found a convenient oiler for my 3-speeds and a couple of other machines around the property. I bought it today without shopping to much - you may find it cheaper at other locations.

I got mine through Harbor Freight, a hardware chain. It was about three dollars. Nothing fancy, but gets the job done.

sloar 01-18-15 06:23 PM

Well, I have learned you haven't worked on a bike til you've worked on an old English bike.

crank_addict 01-18-15 06:34 PM


Originally Posted by Number_6 (Post 17478960)
I'll say it like this- when you shift, take the load off the crank. You can pedal backward, stop or pedal forward slower- all will make for some play or slack in the drivetrain since it's not loaded with your pedal power. Then the SA will happily go where you want it to (if it is not ill...).

I don't pedal backwards and further, what purpose would it serve?

I do ride a vintage bike with a combination IGH + derailleurs. The best for IGH shifting is not during pedaling, however for the rear derailleur, its a must to do while pedaling. Also, this particular bike uses a front direct lever mounted on the seat tube derailleur. Its supposed to be shifted while pedaling but really doesn't need much. Archaic but works fast and is very positive.

Bandera 01-18-15 07:18 PM


Originally Posted by crank_addict (Post 17480926)
I don't pedal backwards and further, what purpose would it serve?
I do ride a vintage bike with a combination IGH + derailleurs. The best for IGH shifting is not during pedaling, however for the rear derailleur, its a must to do while pedaling.

I also ride a 1950's AW/Cyclo 3 cog derailleur set-up almost daily.
The needlessly complex, finicky, archaic and downright fiddly system's shifting complexity is a proven deterrent to Alzheimers advancement in elderly cyclists.

Anyone who can discern whether an up-shift is "One down on the cogset and an up-click on the hub, or the other way 'round", is doing very well cognitively. :love:

A friend borrowed my town bike for a simple trip to the local Ice House for some Shiner Bocks and pronounced it: "Complete Rubbish, or Complete Genius. I can't tell which."
Neither can I after >40 years in service.

-Bandera

crank_addict 01-18-15 07:21 PM

^^ haha. But I never learned how to program the Betamax! Good riddance!

Velocivixen 01-18-15 11:19 PM

I agree with @sloar regarding old 3 speeds. Today changed shifter cable, partially. Removed & cleaned some dynohub cogs, washers, locknuts, etc. Larger cog comes tomorrow so at that point I'm taking the entire thing apart. If you don't hear from me for awhile....just know I'm focused.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:23 AM.


Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.