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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

BigChief 02-13-17 09:39 AM

Hmmm...I was judging from the closeup of the chainguard. It looks there like the Rudge-Whitworth transfer was applied to a black finish then painted over with a blue that failed to bond well. Now that I look closer, I can't tell if the seat tube transfer is applied over blue or if it was on the black and only revealed after the blue paint came off. There should be a "Rudge Sports" transfer on the down tube. It looks like it's been painted over with blue. At least I can't see it. The picture is small.

plumberroy 02-13-17 07:53 PM

Well I got my Raleigh sport hub dated 75 It is the cleanest Raleigh 3 speed I have ever seen in person The only thing I was in doubt of the 42 year old brooks B72 setting 42 years holding up came true. After about a mile the seat gave out from dry rot . I rode it enough to know it is sweet !! I have a new brooks on order
Roy

markk900 02-13-17 08:44 PM

@Niner9: nice Rudge. I think your bike may have been the same blue as my Humber:

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps16f2596a.jpg

However, it is funny that some of the decals are clearly on over black...on mine, the black is under the blue (and the blue is very fragile!).

As to the pulley, I got one off ebay pretty quickly so there are some out there!

Elbow grease will do a lot - consider carefully before you do refinish the whole bike.
Mine as bought (just a partial shot):
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/a...psd74b73e0.jpg

After cleanup:
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/a...psjmhjtxlo.jpg

look566 rider 02-13-17 08:45 PM

2 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by Niner9 (Post 19375428)
I think it's all there. Missing a headlight and the battery tube.Fenders have been painted white. I think original colour is the blue as I have stripped it down and under the chrome pieces it's blue.

Clean it and ride!

I have a 51 Rudge, that is original but for few small parts, couple of nuts and the brake pads & tires, safety ya know.

All my chrome and the paint came back to decent to excellent shape with elbow grease and time. Paint was dull similar to yours. Rusty chrome was not quite as bad as yours.

Attachment 552845 Attachment 552846

Niner9 02-13-17 10:03 PM

4 Attachment(s)
Took a few more pics. As you can see where the chrome cap was the paint is in very good condition.Funny where the Rudge decal is it shows no sign of black paint. And it is a 3 speed.

BigChief 02-14-17 05:42 AM

Thanks! Mystery solved. Raleigh did over paint black frames, at least with this blue color. I remember a similar situation with vintage Fender guitars. The custom color paint would start to wear off showing a sunburst finish underneath and people would think it was a repaint. Turns out that back in the 50s, the factory would routinely paint over sunburst colored bodies to fill orders for custom colors.

Niner9 02-14-17 08:49 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 19377509)
Thanks! Mystery solved. Raleigh did over paint black frames, at least with this blue color. I remember a similar situation with vintage Fender guitars. The custom color paint would start to wear off showing a sunburst finish underneath and people would think it was a repaint. Turns out that back in the 50s, the factory would routinely paint over sunburst colored bodies to fill orders for custom colors.

Thanks. Good to know.

BigChief 02-15-17 05:51 AM


Originally Posted by Niner9 (Post 19379317)
Thanks. Good to know.

That's why I like this thread so much, I'm always learning new things about my 3 speed hobby. Mark's Humber proves the use of blue over black paint around the same time as your bike. A Rudge Sports would normally have the same stamped fender stays as a Raleigh Sports, but again, Clubman's Humber shows nothing is carved in stone when it comes to bikes coming out of the Nottingham factory in the 50s. These may very well be original fenders. I like this bike a lot. Finds like this are what the hobby is all about for me.

Dsprok 02-18-17 07:27 AM

Hope this passes muster.
It's a Raleigh and it's a 3 speed.http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j5...psh5ql0rk4.jpg
Note the Sturmey Archer cross section of the rim.

markk900 02-18-17 07:42 AM

That's a beauty! Taking this digression a little further, does anyone know what the model designation "Seven" means in the context of these cars? There's the above "Safety Severn", the Austin Seven, and of course the Lotus Seven (and the modern derivatives). What did "seven" represent to the car buying public back in the day?

thumpism 02-18-17 07:44 AM

More than six and less than eight?


Seriously, some manufacturers used those numbers to distinguish which in a series of designs was used for that model.

markk900 02-18-17 08:56 AM


Originally Posted by thumpism (Post 19386440)
More than six and less than eight?


Seriously, some manufacturers used those numbers to distinguish which in a series of designs was used for that model.

LOL - understood but it just seems some pretty famous cars were all (coincidentally?) "Sevens" - don't hear a lot about the Lotus Two or the Austin 9.....anyway, I didn't want to take this too far as it is off topic...just thought with the number of Anglophiles here there might be a quick answer. Internet yields little beyond delicious pictures of the Caterham 7 (swoon)...

Dsprok 02-18-17 09:43 AM

Western society sees 7 as a lucky number. Hence all the 7's in the Boeing line of aircraft.

thumpism 02-18-17 11:41 AM


Originally Posted by markk900 (Post 19386539)
LOL - understood but it just seems some pretty famous cars were all (coincidentally?) "Sevens" - don't hear a lot about the Lotus Two or the Austin 9.....anyway, I didn't want to take this too far as it is off topic...just thought with the number of Anglophiles here there might be a quick answer. Internet yields little beyond delicious pictures of the Caterham 7 (swoon)...

Excerpt from Wikipedia:

"...The Lotus Seven was launched in 1957, after the Lotus Eleven was in limited production. The Seven name was left over from a model that was abandoned by Lotus, which would have been a Riley-engined single-seater that Lotus intended to enter into the Formula Two in 1952 or 1953. However, the car was completed around Chapman's chassis as a sports car by its backers and christened the Clairmonte Special.

Based on Chapman's first series-produced Lotus Mark VI, the Seven..."

And, regarding the Austin Seven:
"...Edge convinced Austin to use a small four-cylinder engine. The original side valve engine design featured a capacity of 696cc ( 55mm x 77mm ) giving a RAC rating of 7.2 hp..."

So maybe the Austin Seven name came from the horsepower rating? Or maybe it's simply euphonious.

gna 02-18-17 07:05 PM

Don't know about the name. Googling found me this cool video:

SirMike1983 02-18-17 10:58 PM

1946 Hercules Model C, rod and coaster variant. 70 degrees in February (!).

https://bikeshedva.blogspot.com/2017...s-model-c.html

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-9DxcEMUAd...218_155804.jpg

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-EZR853cgt...218_155722.jpg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-g-aInBFr-...218_155815.jpg

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-61OqENrJM...218_155743.jpg

DQRider 02-19-17 03:06 PM


Originally Posted by SirMike1983 (Post 19387798)
1946 Hercules Model C, rod and coaster variant. 70 degrees in February (!).

https://bikeshedva.blogspot.com/2017...s-model-c.html

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-9DxcEMUAd...218_155804.jpg

Wow! What a beautiful bike! :love: And what a punishing seat angle! :eek:

SirMike1983, please tell me that saddle settles forward when you mount the bike. Or do you sing soprano?

BigChief 02-19-17 06:13 PM

It's quite common to see Brooks saddles set like that. Years of biking has caused some damage down there for me. I can now only ride saddles with generous relief in the center and even then, I still have some discomfort. Seems like most riders don't experience my problem, but I wish I was more aware of the risk back when I was young. And yes...another superb bike from Sir Mike!!

SirMike1983 02-19-17 07:33 PM


Originally Posted by DQRider (Post 19388845)
Wow! What a beautiful bike! :love: And what a punishing seat angle! :eek:

SirMike1983, please tell me that saddle settles forward when you mount the bike. Or do you sing soprano?

It's deceptively comfortable. The bike rides where sit with your back straight up, over the rear springs on the Brooks. You're not on your soft parts because the weight is all on the sit bones toward the rear of the saddle.

DQRider 02-19-17 08:41 PM

For the love of an English-ish 5 speed?
 
I submit with some trepidation my winter project...

Last year, after my daughter rejected it as "rickety", I traded a ladies Dunelt for a Raysport Turismo frame. I say English-ish because it was built in Mexico of English Reynolds 531 butted tubes by a Scottish member of the 1968 British Olympic Cycling Team (one Ian Alsop), and I'm running a Sturmey Archer 5-speed hub for the drivetrain.

So I started with this:

http://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/...pslvkmuq0u.png

Was aiming for this (Raleigh Lenton Model 29):

http://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/...psinathybr.png

And ended up with this:

http://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/...ps6ih5uf0g.png

That was yesterday. After some few introductory miles, helping all the disparate parts get acquainted with some mild mechanical persuasion, today I decided to configure it for the Lake Pepin 3-speed Tour coming up in May. So I added racks and bags, and the chainguard I painted yesterday, and posed it up against a better background:

http://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/...pssi67wgkh.png

http://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/...ps4tu2ofd1.png

http://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/...psiuhlmfet.png

http://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/...psrx3q23bh.png

The ride is very light and smooth, though maybe not quite as comfortable as my DL1. But the handling is superb even with the racks and bags packed. The long crank and short wheelbase cause some overlap awkwardness with the front fender in low speed maneuvering, but I can get used to that enough that it seldom happens.

I hope I captured the spirit of the old Light Roadsters, since I cannot seem to accumulate the required cash when the real thing becomes available - just poor timing, that. I've certainly spent that much building this, although I did save money on the paint job by doing it myself. Yes, that is rattle-can Rustoleum you are looking at here. Just a coat of wax away from a professional-looking result.

So, am I a heretic now? ;)

kmt 02-19-17 08:51 PM

I took the 1973 Raleigh Sports camping this weekend in Edisto State Park, SC. It got lots of attention!

http://www.bikeforums.net/picture.ph...ctureid=528451

BigChief 02-19-17 09:00 PM


Originally Posted by DQRider (Post 19389512)
I submit with some trepidation my winter project...

Last year, after my daughter rejected it as "rickety", I traded a ladies Dunelt for a Raysport Turismo frame. I say English-ish because it was built in Mexico of English Reynolds 531 butted tubes by a Scottish member of the 1968 British Olympic Cycling Team (one Ian Alsop), and I'm running a Sturmey Archer 5-speed hub for the drivetrain.

So I started with this:

http://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/...pslvkmuq0u.png

Was aiming for this (Raleigh Lenton Model 29):

http://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/...psinathybr.png

And ended up with this:

http://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/...ps6ih5uf0g.png

That was yesterday. After some few introductory miles, helping all the disparate parts get acquainted with some mild mechanical persuasion, today I decided to configure it for the Lake Pepin 3-speed Tour coming up in May. So I added racks and bags, and the chainguard I painted yesterday, and posed it up against a better background:

http://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/...pssi67wgkh.png

http://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/...ps4tu2ofd1.png

http://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/...psiuhlmfet.png

http://i1073.photobucket.com/albums/...psrx3q23bh.png

The ride is very light and smooth, though maybe not quite as comfortable as my DL1. But the handling is superb even with the racks and bags packed. The long crank and short wheelbase cause some overlap awkwardness with the front fender in low speed maneuvering, but I can get used to that enough that it seldom happens.

I hope I captured the spirit of the old Light Roadsters, since I cannot seem to accumulate the required cash when the real thing becomes available - just poor timing, that. I've certainly spent that much building this, although I did save money on the paint job by doing it myself. Yes, that is rattle-can Rustoleum you are looking at here. Just a coat of wax away from a professional-looking result.

So, am I a heretic now? ;)

That is GORGEOUS! Excellent work. I remember the rickety Dunelt. Fine job on that one too. How did you handle the anti-rotation of the rear axle? Or do the new SA hubs even have flats on the axles? I've never had one and don't know how they work.

DQRider 02-19-17 09:14 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 19389551)
That is GORGEOUS! Excellent work. I remember the rickety Dunelt. Fine job on that one too. How did you handle the anti-rotation of the rear axle? Or do the new SA hubs even have flats on the axles? I've never had one and don't know how they work.

Thanks, BigChief!

The SRF-5 (w) has axle flats just like the AW - and the standard A-R washers come with the kit. What I didn't use was the new arm and pulley setup for the shift mechanism, finding that the old HMN129 axle nut fits (Thanks, Dan Burkhart!) and works perfectly fine and makes adjustment easier. Even though I pre-stretched the cable before installing, I still had to stop once to readjust the indicator chain tension. The 5-speed is a bit more finicky than the AW and needs precise adjustment to work properly.

Frankly I was worried about the quality of the Taiwanese-built Sturmey Archer, but it worked just fine today even though I am overdriving it a bit with 44/23t gearing. But I have some steep hills to climb in my Mississippi River bluffs area, and it handled those without a glitch today. I'm really looking forward to the Lake Pepin Tour; Bay City Hill will be a breeze on this steed.

2cam16 02-19-17 09:55 PM

Beautiful,DQ!

adventurepdx 02-19-17 11:23 PM


Originally Posted by kmt (Post 19389535)
I took the 1973 Raleigh Sports camping this weekend in Edisto State Park, SC. It got lots of attention!

I'd love to hear and see more about this! Do you have any photos?

Niner9 02-20-17 08:59 AM

Looks pretty good for a rattle can! Did you get the decals made or buy them? Your grips look great also on that bike. Nice job DQ.

DQRider 02-20-17 09:25 AM


Originally Posted by Niner9 (Post 19390179)
Looks pretty good for a rattle can! Did you get the decals made or buy them? Your grips look great also on that bike. Nice job DQ.

Thanks, Niner9! The stripes were sourced from Velocals, I used the Carlton versions. All lettering was sourced from DIY Lettering, which is a fantastic site where you can create pretty much whatever kind of text you want on their application, and they turn it around quickly. The Coat of Arms on the seatpost and the custom headbadge decals were sourced from CafePress. The grips are a new offering from Brooks. Designing the graphics for this project was a lot of fun, and it turned out exactly as I imagined it would.

Velocivixen 02-20-17 10:28 AM

@DQRider - outstanding. Very creative use of what you had.

DQRider 02-20-17 12:27 PM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 19390404)
@DQRider - outstanding. Very creative use of what you had.

Thanks, @Velocivixen! We have lots of time for creativity during Minnesota winter. You should see our Arts and Crafts Fairs...

agmetal 02-20-17 12:37 PM

Westwood rims! What are the narrowest tires that can reasonably fit them? I have a pair of 622mm Westwood profile rims (V38 Alloy) that I'll be lacing up soon, and I have a pair of Schwalbe Century (https://www.schwalbetires.com/bike_t..._tires/century) tires that I'm planning to use with them. The thing is, their recommended inflation range is something like 50-85 PSI, and typically the tires that get installed on Westwood rims have a maximum recommended inflation pressure of something like 55 PSI. I emailed Schwalbe about it a while ago, and they told me that I'd need to run these tires at their minimum recommended pressure, and I typically inflate tires of this size to 80 PSI on modern hooked rims.

The tires I have are 700x35C/37-622, and a 26x1-3/8" tire is 37-590, so I should be ok, right? Obviously, I won't be able to get to 80 PSI safely, but can I reasonably get to something like 65? I'm aware that I'm outside the manufacturers' "optimum" size recommendations...I definitely would've gotten these tires in a 38mm version if such a thing were available, but the only larger size is 50-622, which is more than I have clearance for.


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