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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

thumpism 09-02-17 07:02 AM

Dweenk posted this one over in the "Wacky" thread and I suggested he also post it here, a pricy 23" men's Sports that might just be in gorgeous condition. His text accompanies the link and photo.

https://easternshore.craigslist.org/...285483949.html

This ad has been up for several months now on CL. The seller began at $375 as I recall, and has been slowly reducing the price over time. The seller has an antique business, so I can assume he/she must know that merchandise you can't move you own. It appears to be in good shape and complete, but I think it's about a $100 dollar bike in these parts
http://www.bikeforums.net/attachment...1&d=1504286321

BigChief 09-02-17 11:48 AM

1 Attachment(s)
I've been pretty critical of Raleigh in the 70s, so I figured I'd give em credit where it's due and praise their decision to use Pletscher ESGE side stands on their deluxe models. Raleigh kickstands were never very stable. The aluminum Sir Walter stands were the worst offenders. They are particularly tippy. I suppose I have them to thank for a lot of the bent shifters I've had fun fixing, but I would never want one on my bike. So even for older Sports bikes, I swap them out for ESGEs original or not. The best ones for Sports frames are like this one with the long sides that come down from the top plate. They fit snug in the frame and don't need much torque to stay firm. These won't squash the chain stays and are the most stable single leg kick stands I've found for Raleigh Sports type bikes.

Attachment 578916

clubman 09-02-17 01:24 PM

Really BigChief?

I've never had an issue with the Walter stands, they're contoured to fit the stays and never fall over, on my bikes anyway. I've got 5 of them in 26 and 28 inch sizes. The front wheel never flops and it has a proper stance imo. I've seen a number of them crack and break though.
Tire size may have a bearing or maybe there were subtle changes to frame design over the years. My current 3 Sports are all pre-'60 but I've had at least 20 later models pass through my hands.
I'd make an offer for any you come across :thumb:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/LV...w1095-h1022-no

gster 09-02-17 01:52 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 19835860)
I've been pretty critical of Raleigh in the 70s, so I figured I'd give em credit where it's due and praise their decision to use Pletscher ESGE side stands on their deluxe models. Raleigh kickstands were never very stable. The aluminum Sir Walter stands were the worst offenders. They are particularly tippy. I suppose I have them to thank for a lot of the bent shifters I've had fun fixing, but I would never want one on my bike. So even for older Sports bikes, I swap them out for ESGEs original or not. The best ones for Sports frames are like this one with the long sides that come down from the top plate. They fit snug in the frame and don't need much torque to stay firm. These won't squash the chain stays and are the most stable single leg kick stands I've found for Raleigh Sports type bikes.

Attachment 578916

I prefer this style of side stand as well.

3speedslow 09-02-17 02:20 PM

1 Attachment(s)
The new spring has arrived so it's on to the next repair. Thanks @BigChief !

3speedslow 09-02-17 02:33 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 19835860)
I've been pretty critical of Raleigh in the 70s, so I figured I'd give em credit where it's due and praise their decision to use Pletscher ESGE side stands on their deluxe models. Raleigh kickstands were never very stable. The aluminum Sir Walter stands were the worst offenders. They are particularly tippy. I suppose I have them to thank for a lot of the bent shifters I've had fun fixing, but I would never want one on my bike. So even for older Sports bikes, I swap them out for ESGEs original or not. The best ones for Sports frames are like this one with the long sides that come down from the top plate. They fit snug in the frame and don't need much torque to stay firm. These won't squash the chain stays and are the most stable single leg kick stands I've found for Raleigh Sports type bikes.

Attachment 578916

I have not seen those ESGE stands with that particular top plate. I hate the damage regular KSs do to the chainstay. I must go through the stand bin at the LBS and see if I can find some. I have one Raleigh stand on one of my Sports and have had no problems with it.

Learning...

BigChief 09-02-17 02:40 PM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 19836059)
Really BigChief?

I've never had an issue with the Walter stands, they're contoured to fit the stays and never fall over, on my bikes anyway. I've got 5 of them in 26 and 28 inch sizes. The front wheel never flops and it has a proper stance imo. I've seen a number of them crack and break though.
Tire size may have a bearing or maybe there were subtle changes to frame design over the years. My current 3 Sports are all pre-'60 but I've had at least 20 later models pass through my hands.
I'd make an offer for any you come across :thumb:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/LV...w1095-h1022-no

Wow, nice bike!!! For the stand, I have no explanation for this. I found the Walter stands to be completely unacceptable. In my experience, the difference in stability between the walter and the ESGE is huge. But my experience is only 2 different bikes. Both from the mid 60s. Perhaps there's some difference over the years. I don't think I have the 2 stands anymore. Don't think I would have thrown them away, but I haven't seen them in a long time.

plympton 09-03-17 01:59 PM

So I'm getting a little ahead of myself but it's a rainy Sunday and I've been looking at items that I'll need when I get to the 50's something Raleigh. BigChief recommended Yellow Jersey for the rear reflector so I looked at the site. I see that they have the rod brake handle bars. Are they good? The ones on ebay are twice+ the price. And also, what about tyres? Google images show a variety of sidewalls on vintage Raleighs. I want the style that bike came with. What do you call that rubber band thing that goes on the rim? Also again, I can't believe that with millions of bikes sold there aren't more catalogs I see 1948, 1951, and 1954. Thanks to all, Richard

BigChief 09-03-17 04:01 PM


Originally Posted by plympton (Post 19837868)
So I'm getting a little ahead of myself but it's a rainy Sunday and I've been looking at items that I'll need when I get to the 50's something Raleigh. BigChief recommended Yellow Jersey for the rear reflector so I looked at the site. I see that they have the rod brake handle bars. Are they good? The ones on ebay are twice+ the price. And also, what about tyres? Google images show a variety of sidewalls on vintage Raleighs. I want the style that bike came with. What do you call that rubber band thing that goes on the rim? Also again, I can't believe that with millions of bikes sold there aren't more catalogs I see 1948, 1951, and 1954. Thanks to all, Richard

Most of the roadster parts you see for sale, like the handlebars at yellow jersey are from India or China. I've only seen roadster parts, not the light roadster rod brake bars like your bike has. I wouldn't use them if I were restoring an English roadster myself. I think the reflector is pretty close to the old style though.

plympton 09-03-17 04:49 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 19838087)
Most of the roadster parts you see for sale, like the handlebars at yellow jersey are from India or China. I've only seen roadster parts, not the light roadster rod brake bars like your bike has. I wouldn't use them if I were restoring an English roadster myself. I think the reflector is pretty close to the old style though.

I talked to a guy who builds hot rod roadsters and he says the same about chrome parts. He sends parts to Canada to be re-chromed. 50% cheaper than US. Maybe I'll find a parts bike with better handlebars.

arty dave 09-03-17 05:28 PM

plympton - the rubber band on a rim is called a rim strip. It stops the nipple heads making holes in the tube (apologies if you already know its function).
It's fine to re-use if the rubber is OK. Some c&v'ers seem to like using self adhesive fabric rim strip. If you're feeling crafty you can cut up an inner tube into a continuous strip and punch a hole in it for the valve.

Here's a 1950 Humber for sale in the Adelaide hills, Australia. It has a SA front hub with both dyno and drum brake, cool! I didn't know SA made this hub. It also has a rear 3 speed drum brake.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4398/...eb2efe9a_z.jpg$_20 by arty dave armour, on Flickr

clubman 09-03-17 07:20 PM

Unique hub! I didn't know the modern version was based on a previous model. Cool bike.

BigChief 09-03-17 09:01 PM


Originally Posted by plympton (Post 19838187)
I talked to a guy who builds hot rod roadsters and he says the same about chrome parts. He sends parts to Canada to be re-chromed. 50% cheaper than US. Maybe I'll find a parts bike with better handlebars.

I doubt you'll find clean handlebars for your bike anytime soon. Maybe in England, but in the US an early 1950s Dawn is a very rare bike. This restoration will be a challenge. But consider...this bike is very much worth the effort. It would be far easier to restore a later more common model, but nowhere near as satisfying. If I were doing this project (and I wish I were) I would do things one piece at a time and fit expensive things like re-chroming parts as I could afford them. You really do have a wonderful bike there.

oldveloman 09-04-17 02:16 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 19828273)
Raleigh produced specific models for Canada. I believe the white paint on the steering tube is common to these models as well as the name and decals.

Attachment 578469

As far as I know, the cream or white peak head appeared in 1957.
Not only on Raleigh bikes, but also on its other brands. I have a late fifties Triumph Sports that has them and I have seen an early sixties Rudge with similar finish.

Peter

plympton 09-04-17 06:47 AM

Rescue me. I have a bike behind my shed that's been sitting there for years. It's a old Hub Cycle Co. coaster brake bike. It had "chain tyres" and I don't think it had inner tube. It's free, just need someone to rescue it. Where on the forum do I post it?

clubman 09-04-17 07:36 AM


Originally Posted by plympton (Post 19839084)
Rescue me. I have a bike behind my shed that's been sitting there for years. It's a old Hub Cycle Co. coaster brake bike. It had "chain tyres" and I don't think it had inner tube. It's free, just need someone to rescue it. Where on the forum do I post it?

Try the Pay it forward thread

Quantumxl 09-04-17 10:15 AM


Originally Posted by arty dave (Post 19838276)
plympton - the rubber band on a rim is called a rim strip. It stops the nipple heads making holes in the tube (apologies if you already know its function).
It's fine to re-use if the rubber is OK. Some c&v'ers seem to like using self adhesive fabric rim strip. If you're feeling crafty you can cut up an inner tube into a continuous strip and punch a hole in it for the valve.

Here's a 1950 Humber for sale in the Adelaide hills, Australia. It has a SA front hub with both dyno and drum brake, cool! I didn't know SA made this hub. It also has a rear 3 speed drum brake.

That Dyno Drum brake system in the front looks so beautiful. I wish that was here in the states. Would've snatched that up in the heart beat.

BigChief 09-04-17 02:11 PM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 19838524)
Unique hub! I didn't know the modern version was based on a previous model. Cool bike.

I wonder if that hub is a custom creation. Really cool idea. Might be some way to build one. Hmmm

dweenk 09-04-17 02:38 PM

A link to a document on the VCC.
http://veterancycleclublibrary.org.u...20Library).pdf

plympton 09-04-17 05:46 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 19838087)
Most of the roadster parts you see for sale, like the handlebars at yellow jersey are from India or China. I've only seen roadster parts, not the light roadster rod brake bars like your bike has. I wouldn't use them if I were restoring an English roadster myself. I think the reflector is pretty close to the old style though.

I can get a 53 Raleigh Sport ladies for under $100. I could use: 3 speed hub, all the little nuts and bolts, chain case, fenders, luggage rack, etc. Not the handlebars I need and an LL Bean saddle. I could reassemble her as my errands bike at the cabin.

arty dave 09-04-17 06:01 PM

Very nice dweenk, thanks for posting, I love seeing the old catalogues and manuals. Apart from the 60's Raleigh/SA wheel-building instuctions...jeebers that did my head in :) To be fair I was quite tired when I sat down to build the wheel - but it was my first time lacing a BF hub with large flange/small flange. I got it right the 3rd time...just had to read the instructions really really carefully

BigChief 09-04-17 09:53 PM


Originally Posted by plympton (Post 19840479)
I can get a 53 Raleigh Sport ladies for under $100. I could use: 3 speed hub, all the little nuts and bolts, chain case, fenders, luggage rack, etc. Not the handlebars I need and an LL Bean saddle. I could reassemble her as my errands bike at the cabin.

The whole wheel should work. Any Raleigh Sports would have the dual purpose rims you need for your rod brakes. The catalogs do list a regular AW 3 speed hub as an option, but they don't show the Dawn with a rear carrier. The Brooks B66 saddle shown in this 1951 catalog is still in production.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/retroral...es/20-dawn.jpg

nlerner 09-06-17 04:14 PM

Was someone looking for replacement bars for a DL-1? I just found these as I was cleaning out my basement:

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4403/...0c1da8b5_c.jpg

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4426/...19d85067_c.jpg

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4414/...c5543ee8_c.jpg

Chrome is in decent shape; otherwise, wysiwyg. Yours for the cost of shipping.

3speedslow 09-06-17 04:45 PM

2 Attachment(s)
I received the replacement spring from @BigChief so got some time today to pop the case open on the 50's shifter. Rivets were tight but tri-flow, a little time to soak and one or two firm whacks with the 1 1/16 punch brought them out. All parts were oily but cleaned up nice. Case is nice and straight, thank goodness!

Will reassemble tomorrow while my knee recovers from my hard riding today. One place I went was back to the LBS with the dark bins of forgotten parts. Out from them came an NOS Schwinn SA trigger cable with accessories. i got a good price!

gster 09-07-17 06:51 AM


Originally Posted by 3speedslow (Post 19845013)
I received the replacement spring from @BigChief so got some time today to pop the case open on the 50's shifter. Rivets were tight but tri-flow, a little time to soak and one or two firm whacks with the 1 1/16 punch brought them out. All parts were oily but cleaned up nice. Case is nice and straight, thank goodness!

Will reassemble tomorrow while my knee recovers from my hard riding today. One place I went was back to the LBS with the dark bins of forgotten parts. Out from them came an NOS Schwinn SA trigger cable with accessories. i got a good price!

That's a nice cable. It's got the stripped/coated section past the stop.

gster 09-07-17 06:55 AM

Robin Hood
 
4 Attachment(s)
A nice project for some one.
Listed on Toronto Kijiji @ $159.00
A 1957 Robin Hood 3 speed with a leather saddlle. I'm tempted but I'm only buying tall frames from now on.
Attachment 579574

Attachment 579575

Attachment 579576

Attachment 579577

BigChief 09-07-17 07:21 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 19846007)
That's a nice cable. It's got the stripped/coated section past the stop.

Yes and it has the threaded ferrule he needs for the 50s window shifter. Nice find.

3speedslow 09-07-17 09:55 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 19846066)
Yes and it has the threaded ferrule he needs for the 50s window shifter. Nice find.

You caught that! About jumped when I saw that little tiny piece. I had the blackest, greasiest fingers from pawing through the bins of little things looking for one of those.

I was very excited to get that cable. Made the cap to a great day. Was so happy I didn't mind the rain pelting me as I raced home on my bike.

SquidPuppet 09-07-17 08:43 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 19840939)
The whole wheel should work. Any Raleigh Sports would have the dual purpose rims you need for your rod brakes. The catalogs do list a regular AW 3 speed hub as an option, but they don't show the Dawn with a rear carrier. The Brooks B66 saddle shown in this 1951 catalog is still in production.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/retroral...es/20-dawn.jpg


I had no idea Raleigh used stainless spokes way back then. Wow!!

thumpism 09-08-17 06:30 AM


Originally Posted by SquidPuppet (Post 19847818)
I had no idea Raleigh used stainless spokes way back then. Wow!!

Look closely at the illustration. They used invisible spokes!


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