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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

Salubrious 11-08-17 02:53 PM


Originally Posted by dweenk (Post 19980553)
I know a guy who has a pair of NOS fenders that I think are for a DL-1. He wants $75 for the pair, but there are no fender stays. PM me and I will give you his phone number. I am pretty sure he will ship.


Thanks- doesn't the DL-1 use 28" tires? These are 26".

alikws 11-08-17 07:47 PM

That '35 pretty well nailed the look Pashley tried for with their Guvnor. No fenders looks good, white elluoid Blumels would look good, and a white head and gold box line work would finish it. Bonus points for drrum brakes and quadrant shifter.

bwilli88 11-08-17 08:24 PM

Were there any DL-1 made with out rod brakes?

johnnyspaghetti 11-08-17 11:01 PM

1 Attachment(s)
This one has been posted locally here for a while, looks pretty cool
.https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/h...361996517.html
Attachment 588119

Cute Boy Horse 11-09-17 01:46 AM


Originally Posted by bazil4696 (Post 19980127)
I agree with you, Gster.
My Gazelle with drum brakes is DANGEROUS when coming down a steep hill and having to stop at the bottom. Full on as hard as I can pull just slows it down, and I've had both wheels apart, cleaned, sanded, and adjusted them till the shoes were dragging, and still no better brakes than a '65 Corvair. luckily they're not worse in the rain, like a set of crispy John Bull pads on a wet chrome rim...
There isn't much info online about them either.

Something is very wrong on your bike. My experience of drums is accidentally lifting the back wheel off the ground.

clubman 11-09-17 05:15 AM


Originally Posted by bwilli88 (Post 19981364)
Were there any DL-1 made with out rod brakes?

Depends what you mean by DL-1, as that's a specific model name. Raleigh made large wheeled roadsters for export markets, though these two have 700c's and not 28's. TCW 3 speed on the first and a coaster single on the other. Beautiful riding bikes.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/jD...=w1227-h714-no
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/da...w1600-h1015-no

Salubrious 11-09-17 04:11 PM

drum brakes
 
I know several people who got vintage motorbike drum brakes re-shoed with excellent results.

My build of the '35 rodaster was mostly to prove out the frame to make sure it was OK prior to finishing. So its coming apart; at that time I intend to get the brake shoes rebuilt.

arty dave 11-09-17 04:43 PM

Thanks for the compliments on the DL-1, I blame Raleigh for making such cool bikes! :)

So far I've read this advice about drum brakes:

- Clean the drum shell and shoes with brake cleaner (makes sense)
- Wire brush or sand the shoes to get rid of any glazing
- Sand off any high spots on the shoes to achieve full contact with the hub shell
- Loosen the drum side locknut and re-tighten it with the brakes applied to line up the shoes in the drum
Some good words from Mark Stonich: Optimizing Drum Brake Performance

If none of this works I'll look at getting the shoes re-lined, or seeing if modern SA drum shoe replacements will fit this '65 hub.
Hopefully I'll be stopping better tomorrow so I can go for a nice long & cruisey ride.

johnnyspaghetti 11-09-17 05:54 PM

1 Attachment(s)
This looks like a 1961 in my area for $100 looking real good
https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/h...374763847.html

Attachment 588211

Cute Boy Horse 11-09-17 06:20 PM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 19981780)
Depends what you mean by DL-1, as that's a specific model name. Raleigh made large wheeled roadsters for export markets, though these two have 700c's and not 28's. TCW 3 speed on the first and a coaster single on the other. Beautiful riding bikes.

When people say DL-1 it's an Americanism for the whole range of bikes Raleigh sold (and still sells!) with the pre-war style detachable stays frame and 28" wheels. In the UK we'd call this just "a Raleigh" because its the normal one. (Except when they're confusing it for the 26" wheel bikes...)

There was variants with every imaginable combination of coaster brake, three or four speed (with or without intergrated dynohub), rim or drum brakes (both with a choice of rod or cable) etc etc not even getting into chaincase or not, accessories and whatnot.

At the moment the bike is still sold with the 28" wheels in Denmark, with a cable operated front drum and a twistgrip shimano nexus coaster brake hub. They've gone with calling it "Tourist De Luxe" and it costs stupid money.

clubman 11-09-17 06:53 PM


Originally Posted by johnnyspaghetti (Post 19983351)
This looks like a 1961 in my area for $100 looking real good
https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/h...374763847.html

That's very nice. 61's seem to be the only year with that paint scheme. Open to offers no less. Buy it if it passes inspection, black bikes clean up well. Then stop looking at CL! (right ;))

adventurepdx 11-09-17 09:12 PM


Originally Posted by Cute Boy Horse (Post 19983398)
When people say DL-1 it's an Americanism for the whole range of bikes Raleigh sold (and still sells!) with the pre-war style detachable stays frame and 28" wheels. In the UK we'd call this just "a Raleigh" because its the normal one. (Except when they're confusing it for the 26" wheel bikes...)

Well, it's an Americanism because it was the specific model name for pretty much the ONLY rod-braked roadster you could get in the US. Here's the 1976 Raleigh USA catalog(ue) page:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/retroral...be-tourist.jpg

Cute Boy Horse 11-10-17 04:52 AM

I still think your DL24 is a pretty weird bike. I can't fathom why it's a separate front dynohub, when UK market models got the AG and FG. No mudflaps, pump or bag in that picture either. Other than making cable brakes standard it seems like a straight downgrade.

And your DL1 not having a superbe version is strange too, something made them go "you're really tall? You can go to hell and buy battery lights!"

It's all really weird because from a british perception Americans have tons of money to spend, you got colour tv and computers before we did and drove huge cars with power everything. I would've thought Raleigh'd want to cash in on that and offer a bike with every feature in the world. Hell, I've seen schwinns with radios and car horns on them, so it's not like there wasn't someone spending stupid money on a cycle.

clubman 11-10-17 05:03 AM


Originally Posted by Cute Boy Horse (Post 19983859)
...from a british perception Americans have tons of money to spend, you got colour tv and computers before we did and drove huge cars with power everything. I would've thought Raleigh'd want to cash in on that and offer a bike with every feature in the world. Hell, I've seen schwinns with radios and car horns on them, so it's not like there wasn't someone spending stupid money on a cycle.

Gotta walk a mile in someone's shoe's buddy. Large heavy English bikes wasn't a big sell.

Cute Boy Horse 11-10-17 05:19 AM

Beach cruisers are larger and heavier, they're basically the only bike y'all made. Even the schwinn varsity is basically a beach cruiser with drop bars. I don't think weight was an issue in the US market.

clubman 11-10-17 07:13 PM

I think you're basically misunderstanding the nature of mid-century bike culture in North America. Cars and motorcycles ruled and most NA production emulated motorbikes and cruisers. Cycling wasn't as ingrained into the mainstream as it was in Europe. The bike boom of the 70's partially reintroduced race bike culture but English roadsters were limited to a very small segment of the marketplace. This is a generalization but close to the truth. I grew up in a very English roadster friendly city but no one under 30 would be caught dead on one in the 70's. And no, we didn't have fat stacks of cash to throw away frivolously.

thumpism 11-10-17 08:37 PM


Originally Posted by Cute Boy Horse (Post 19983859)
It's all really weird because from a british perception Americans have tons of money to spend, you got colour tv and computers before we did and drove huge cars with power everything. I would've thought Raleigh'd want to cash in on that and offer a bike with every feature in the world. Hell, I've seen schwinns with radios and car horns on them, so it's not like there wasn't someone spending stupid money on a cycle.

Man, you really need to go for a long ride in a Chevrolet Chevette Scooter, the stripper version of America's smallest car. I guarantee that you'll be wishing for a bicycle before too long.

thumpism 11-10-17 08:59 PM


Originally Posted by Cute Boy Horse (Post 19983859)
I still think your DL24 is a pretty weird bike. I can't fathom why it's a separate front dynohub, when UK market models got the AG and FG. No mudflaps, pump or bag in that picture either. Other than making cable brakes standard it seems like a straight downgrade.

I'd guess marketing. The Raleigh guys in the States probably had a say in what bikes were brought in for this market and they picked what they thought would sell here, not what was most practical or proven to sell in England. Heck, peaked fenders and the heron crest was about as racy as they figured America could stand on a bike. I'm surprised we got any Dynohub at all. And mudflaps? Mudflaps were the pocket protector of cycling in the '70s.

Regarding the pump and bag, aftermarket accessories. Why include it if you can charge more for it after the sale?

elcraft 11-10-17 09:36 PM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 19985545)
I think you're basically misunderstanding the nature of mid-century bike culture in North America. Cars and motorcycles ruled and most NA production emulated motorbikes and cruisers. Cycling wasn't as ingrained into the mainstream as it was in Europe. The bike boom of the 70's partially reintroduced race bike culture but English roadsters were limited to a very small segment of the marketplace. This is a generalization but close to the truth. I grew up in a very English roadster friendly city but no one under 30 would be caught dead on one in the 70's. And no, we didn't have fat stacks of cash to throw away frivolously.

+1!!
Bikes were considered toys for children or weekends. There weren't any appreciable numbers of commuters or pure transportational riders. And though we Americans may have had "tons of money", little utility was seen in spending on a fully loaded Bike. The aftermarket of installing bottle generator lighting systems and aftermarket pumps and bags would have been lost had they been OEM. It has only been since the last 10 or 15 years that any "city bike" (mudguard/ fender, lighting and rack equipped) models have been offered for sale in the US- the tradition has been all of these were strictly aftermarket.

SirMike1983 11-10-17 10:14 PM

The Indian-made spindle arrived earlier this week with the rest of a bottom bracket kit from Yellow Jersey (helpful people and fast shipping).

Description/pictures/a video:

https://bikeshedva.blogspot.com/2017...t-spindle.html

gster 11-11-17 03:29 AM


Originally Posted by thumpism (Post 19985700)
I'd guess marketing. The Raleigh guys in the States probably had a say in what bikes were brought in for this market and they picked what they thought would sell here, not what was most practical or proven to sell in England. Heck, peaked fenders and the heron crest was about as racy as they figured America could stand on a bike. I'm surprised we got any Dynohub at all. And mudflaps? Mudflaps were the pocket protector of cycling in the '70s.

Regarding the pump and bag, aftermarket accessories. Why include it if you can charge more for it after the sale?

Both Canada and the US imposed strict trade tariffs on imported bicycles back then to support domestic production, CCM and Schwinn for example.
Raleigh, as a business had to meet a certain price point to remain competetive. One solution was to set up factories in other countries. Raleigh had one here in Toronto where bicycles were either made or assembled, the same with Peugeot and Sekine.
My family moved to England for a few years in the early 70's when I was 13 and I was quite shocked to discover that indoor toilets and central heating were considered luxuries...

arty dave 11-11-17 04:50 AM

Thanks Sir Mike - great write up on the DL-1 sized bottom bracket from Yellow Jersey.

I couldn't make the front drum stop any better today. I doused the shoes with brake cleaner over and over until no more dirt came off, and wiped out the shell a few times with it. I sanded the shoes and centred the shoes in the drum. The rear drum still stops better than the front drum grrrr + Edit: maybe I should swap the rear shoes for the front?
Something else I read: 'Note that on these brakes the amount of lining wear that takes the operating cam outside its power zone is the limiting factor, not the thickness of the lining that's left.'

I'll look into replacement shoes or having these ones re-lined. I can't find anything about fitting modern 90mm shoes into the vintage drums - does anyone know if this will work?

Cute Boy Horse 11-11-17 08:49 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 19985973)
My family moved to England for a few years in the early 70's when I was 13 and I was quite shocked to discover that indoor toilets and central heating were considered luxuries...

All a result of war profiteering I'm afraid. You only helped with the Hitler problem for a price, so postwar all our industry was oriented towards exporting to you, to earn your dollars, which we'd then give back to you. So for all the work we did at home there wasn't much cash left over actually in the UK, which naturally has huge knock on effects on the improvement of living standards etc. Equally as true is that yours benefited, at least for those demographics who weren't forced to use a separate drinking fountain.

Believe it or not, our outdoor toilet, unheated house nightmare was the fruits of the postwar economic boom! It used to be even worse. In the 60s people were happy to have the luxury of actually getting to buy something at all, instead of going on a waiting list because of the export priority.

Which I think nicely explains the difference in bicycle cultures - a bike in the UK was a serious investment in your future. It's worth remembering that Raleigh was the luxury brand, with the best build quality and attention to detail and a price to match. Maybe the lack of seriousness of a bike in America let them get away with skimping on specs.

gster 11-11-17 08:58 AM


Originally Posted by Cute Boy Horse (Post 19986176)
All a result of your bosses' war profiteering I'm afraid. You only helped with the Hitler problem for a price, so postwar all our industry was oriented towards exporting to you, to earn your dollars, which we'd then give back to you. So for all the work we did at home there wasn't much cash left over actually in the UK, which naturally has huge knock on effects on the improvement of living standards etc. Equally as true is that yours benefited, at least for those demographics who weren't forced to use a separate drinking fountain.

Believe it or not, our outdoor toilet, unheated house nightmare was the fruits of the postwar economic boom! It used to be even worse. In the 60s people were happy to have the luxury of actually getting to buy something at all, instead of going on a waiting list because of the export priority.

Which I think nicely explains the difference in bicycle cultures - a bike in the UK was a serious investment in your future.

This thread is getting a little hostile.
I'm Canadian and have a strong connection to the UK.

Q- Why didn't Hitler drink coffee?
A- It made him mean.

BigChief 11-11-17 10:30 AM

"helped with the "Hitler problem"??...Hundreds of thousands of American soldiers gave their lives or came home horribly wounded.

Cute Boy Horse 11-11-17 10:38 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 19986332)
"helped with the "Hitler problem"??...Hundreds of thousands of American soldiers gave their lives or came home horribly wounded.

The men who put on army uniforms and marched off to war are a completely different group of people to those who sat back in leather chairs and daydreamed about how much money the war was making them. Seems odd to invoke the memory of heroes to defend the shameless loan sharks who cashed in on the whole affair.

There's certainly nothing heroic about millionaire industrialists holding free Europe upside down by the feet and shaking us until our wallet fell out in exchange for some guns and trucks. God knows half of them had interests in the other side anyway, coca-cola, Ford, IBM and GM to name a few. GM actually demanded compensation for their nazi factories after the allies blew them up. Beggars belief.

clubman 11-11-17 11:51 AM

We can stop now, this is all out of line and we can't even consider locking this thread. Let's drop the politics or the moderator will make it so. No room for it on Remembrance day.

Here, I was offered this for 75 bux cdn today. It doesn't have a Brooks. Is it worth it?
Discuss...75 Superbe in very good nick, missing dimple and key.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/GZ...=w1604-h902-no

clubman 11-11-17 11:53 AM

We can stop now, this is out of line and we can't even consider locking this thread. Let's drop the politics or the moderator will make it so. No room for it on Remembrance day.

Here, I was offered this for 75 bux cdn today. It doesn't have a Brooks. Is it worth it?
Discuss...75 Superbe in very good nick, missing dimple and key.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/hD...w1817-h1022-no

dweenk 11-11-17 12:37 PM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 19986461)
We can stop now, this is out of line and we can't even consider locking this thread. Let's drop the politics or the moderator will make it so. No room for it on Remembrance day.

Here, I was offered this for 75 bux cdn today. It doesn't have a Brooks. Is it worth it?
Discuss...75 Superbe in very good nick, missing dimple and key.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/GZ...=w1604-h902-no

I would buy that for $75 US or CDN in a heartbeat. The dyno hub is worth at least that much. Now if the fork was locked, and the key was missing; that would give me pause.

BigChief 11-11-17 01:47 PM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 19986461)
We can stop now, this is out of line and we can't even consider locking this thread. Let's drop the politics or the moderator will make it so. No room for it on Remembrance day.

Here, I was offered this for 75 bux cdn today. It doesn't have a Brooks. Is it worth it?
Discuss...75 Superbe in very good nick, missing dimple and key.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/GZ...=w1604-h902-no

Sounds like a good deal to me. Too bad about the saddle. In 76 they came with a B66. That would have been a home run at $75. I love the B66 on light roadsters.
There's a couple other features I like about the 70s Raleighs. They replaced the rear fender hanger with a neater looking under the fender style like the front has. ESGE kickstands were standard and even though they have the more modern font, the graphics are nicely understated. They don't jump out at you.


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