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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

clubman 11-30-17 08:03 PM

I'm not familiar with those tires but it's not unusual to have to tweak the mudguards to get the just right fit. And yes, removing the wheels can be really tight. Just one of the idiosyncrasies of these bikes so assume that it's a problem that can be solved and try again.

Charmlessman 11-30-17 08:12 PM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 20024879)
I'm not familiar with those tires but it's not unusual to have to tweak the mudguards to get the just right fit. And yes, removing the wheels can be really tight. Just one of the idiosyncrasies of these bikes so assume that it's a problem that can be solved and try again.

I meant the Mudguard was hard enough remove because in the past with the old tires there was a bigger gap so removal of the Mudguard was easy.

arty dave 11-30-17 09:28 PM


Originally Posted by plympton (Post 20024690)
Arty Dave. I know when anything like your frustration happens to me and I'm able to resolve it I feel like I'vewon the lottery.

To those of you who have rebuilt many AW hubs I need your opinions and comments. I have just rebuilt two AW hubs,1949 and 1959 [still have 1952 waiting for spring cap]. The 1959 runs real smooth in my hand as I spin the sprocket in reverse and seems to engage nicely. But, with the 1949 although it spins freely in reverse and seems to engage correctly, the sprocket dust cap rubs [I don't know how else to describe it] within the R H ball ring. It's a uniform rub not a cross thread rub.

I'm always a little disappointed when I can't do it myself...but like with the fork blade adjustment - watching someone else do it gives me the confidence to do it myself next time. I was given a pipe vice 2 xmases ago and didn't even think to use it. Oh, and I was getting really impatient :) glad I can get on with cleaning/building now.

I've seen 2 kinds of dust cap and I have the same experience - a more flared type that doesn't rub, and a much closer fitting dust cap that makes a very light scraping noise. I guess you could put a thin washer in there if you have the space for one, some hubs do, and some hubs come with one. You could file/sand down the height of it a little. I don't think it's the closeness of the fit, I think it's the height of it - the bottom of the dust cap rubbing on the ball ring. My theory is that they're such thin metal even a small distortion will make them rub on the ball ring. That makes sense if its an older hub and the dust cap may have been pryed off with a screwdriver at some stage. I've had the rear wheel on and off my bike so many times for other issues that I'm just putting up with the rubbing for now - it's fairly quiet. But next time I have the wheel off I should check for distortion or sand a little height off the dust cover.

BigChief 11-30-17 09:46 PM

Having to "adjust" the fenders and chainguard is typical for these bikes. You pretty much just have to bend them around until you get it right. I do this with the wheel on. Sometimes I can just bend the stays a bit in the middle to get it to clear the tire and sometimes I'll have to put something flat like a chisel between the tire and stay to bend it out away from the tire.

Charmlessman 11-30-17 10:03 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20025048)
Having to "adjust" the fenders and chainguard is typical for these bikes. You pretty much just have to bend them around until you get it right. I do this with the wheel on. Sometimes I can just bend the stays a bit in the middle to get it to clear the tire and sometimes I'll have to put something flat like a chisel between the tire and stay to bend it out away from the tire.

As English is not my native language and I have Googled it it hour success, I have to ask, what exactly is a stay

thumpism 11-30-17 10:07 PM

A stay is a metal rod or strap that connects the fender to the frame.

Fenders and stays:
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....xL._SX355_.jpg

A stay is also a frame tube that is part of a bike's rear triangle. The chainstays run from the bottom bracket shell to the rear dropouts and the seatstays run from the seat cluster down to the rear dropouts.

johnnyspaghetti 11-30-17 10:24 PM


Originally Posted by Charmlessman (Post 20025084)
As English is not my native language and I have Googled it it hour success, I have to ask, what exactly is a stay

Are you Sure you are getting the axle bearings tighened up corectly. You do need the thin wrench for this and it is a challenge to find the sweet spot for those bearings to roll smooth after tightening the axle to the fork. I find I have to back off the bearing then cinch down the axle nut to get the "sweet spot" (no side play)rolling the wheel with my hand as I do this.
Don't forget what I mentioned before about the nubs on the tire causing interference with the top of the fender. I chose to cut the rubber nubs off the tire rather than bend the fender.

BigChief 12-01-17 06:10 AM

Seems like every time I reassemble an old Raleigh I have to tweek the fenders around a bit. Even if it's not rubbing on the tire I'll bend the front fender till it's centered on the tire. It just bugs me to see it off center as I ride. True about the cone wrench. Most times I'll do the final cone adjustment with the wheels mounted on the bike. You need a cone wrench for that. For the rear wheel, you need 2.

gster 12-01-17 07:52 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20025379)
Seems like every time I reassemble an old Raleigh I have to tweek the fenders around a bit. Even if it's not rubbing on the tire I'll bend the front fender till it's centered on the tire. It just bugs me to see it off center as I ride. True about the cone wrench. Most times I'll do the final cone adjustment with the wheels mounted on the bike. You need a cone wrench for that. For the rear wheel, you need 2.

Yes, the axle nut tightened adds a small amount of compression to the cone. Sometimes it's a matter of a 1/8 of a turn to get it just right.

Charmlessman 12-01-17 11:05 AM

Hi all, I had the 15mm cone wrench needed for the adjustable cone and did my best yesterday, I have the adjustable cone on the left side as instructed by many on this forum. The wheel without the fender works great and I just took a smal ride this morning. I learned 2nd gear disengages so I think more adjustment is needed. Today I will put the front fender back and send some pics to show you how there is no gap between the tire and fender. I hope I can massage it out lol.

Charmlessman 12-01-17 12:17 PM

5 Attachment(s)
So I reinstalled the front mudguard and the sound came back, it is the nose of the fender rubbing the tire. I see now that tire and fender are not aligned and also realized that the more I tight the brake assembly nut the more the nose of the fender goes down. I added some pictures for you to see how close the tire is to the fender.

Any ideas on what to do next?

Salubrious 12-01-17 12:32 PM

The fender comes to a point. You need to spread the flare of the fender at that point. That will get you more room. I would also pull up on the front of the fender as previously suggested.

The brake holds the fender in place- there may be some wiggle room there as well.

nlerner 12-01-17 12:40 PM

Also, as you push the bottom/rear of the front fender down toward the tire, the front/nose will come up. It's hard for me to see from your pic, but it looks like there's a fair amount of space between the rear of the fender and the tire.

clubman 12-01-17 01:07 PM

Those tires do seem to have some bulk.

BigChief 12-01-17 01:11 PM


Originally Posted by Charmlessman (Post 20026162)
So I reinstalled the front mudguard and the sound came back, it is the nose of the fender rubbing the tire. I see now that tire and fender are not aligned and also realized that the more I tight the brake assembly nut the more the nose of the fender goes down. I added some pictures for you to see how close the tire is to the fender.

Any ideas on what to do next?

That is turning out nice. Good job. It's just a question of bending the fender until it clears the tire. Just be careful not to make any sharp bends in the steel or scratch the paint. If it's only rubbing at the very front of the fender, I'd go with spreading the sides a bit. You could also wedge a long screwdriver between the tire and front of the fender and pull up to lift the whole front of the fender a little higher.

Charmlessman 12-01-17 01:59 PM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 20026221)
Also, as you push the bottom/rear of the front fender down toward the tire, the front/nose will come up. It's hard for me to see from your pic, but it looks like there's a fair amount of space between the rear of the fender and the tire.

Here is a picture of the bottom/rear part of the fender. If I were to push it towards the tire? What keeps the fender that way? The question might sound stupid but I am a complete newbie.

Charmlessman 12-01-17 02:03 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20026307)
That is turning out nice. Good job. It's just a question of bending the fender until it clears the tire. Just be careful not to make any sharp bends in the steel or scratch the paint. If it's only rubbing at the very front of the fender, I'd go with spreading the sides a bit. You could also wedge a long screwdriver between the tire and front of the fender and pull up to lift the whole front of the fender a little higher.

Thanks, I cant wait to ride this bike instead of my niece's beach cruiser. It is only rubbing at the very front so I will remove the fender and try to spread the sides as suggested. How do I keep the fender aligned to the tire? Is it all about bending the fender? Once I try the first option, I will see if I need to pull up the front side of the fender. Once that is done I will check whats up with second gear disengaging.

BigChief 12-01-17 03:25 PM

second gear disengaging is only a cable adjustment. There's a neutral spot you want to avoid. Try adding some tension to the shifter cable with the barrel adjuster. If there's no adjustment left there, you can gain more by moving the cable stop further up the down tube. For adjusting the shift cable, the barrel is your fine adjustment and the cable stop (fulcrum clip) is your coarse adjustment.

arty dave 12-01-17 05:10 PM

Looking good Charmlessman, you'll be riding soon. You're only a couple of tweeks away from a smile on your face. Those tyres look nice on your bike.

johnnyspaghetti 12-01-17 08:38 PM


Originally Posted by Charmlessman (Post 20026423)
Here is a picture of the bottom/rear part of the fender. If I were to push it towards the tire? What keeps the fender that way? The question might sound stupid but I am a complete newbie.

Yes, exactly what to do.

In that picture the fender looks higher off the tire between the valve stem down to the fender stays.

If you were to, using the palms of your hands using the rim as the solid point to finger squeeze the fender down toward the tire tread even down to the tire may move it enough. A few inches above the fender stays you will notice this action will most likely raise the top front of the fender.

The fender is springy but ridged enough as not to deform or dent.

By loosening the fender stay bolts and just have them lightly snugged so they have movement without being loose as you shape the fender closer to the tire where it sits high off the tire. Similar tightness on the brake mount bolt allowing movement there as well.

The front should raise up with out actually bending up there. You may need to bend the top point to center the fender with the tire tread though.


Below the stays it looks too close to the tire and flattened which is easy round back into shape again with the palm of your hand. After you shape things up to your liking snug the fasteners up good.

Over tightening fasteners is a big no no.

ThermionicScott 12-02-17 05:10 PM

It's been a while since I last posted to this thread. My '64 Armstrong has gotten dusty because the 21" frame with the original short seatpost was too small a fit for me, and the chromed steel rims were never confidence-inspiring.

But as the weather has cooled off, I've had the itch to play with bikes, and I thought: "what could I do to make this bike work better for me?" So I ordered a longer seatpost for better leg extension and a Sun CR18 rim for the front wheel:

https://i.imgur.com/JM5adP7.jpg?1

This was my first time re-rimming a wheel using the existing hub and spokes, and I had an interesting confound, in that one rim was drilled left-handed while the other right-handed (I'm not sure which is which.) At any rate, I decided to advance all of the right-side spokes by one hole on the hub, and then purposefully lace everything one hole "off" to the new rim. That put the valve back between parallel spokes and got the handedness right:

https://i.imgur.com/jVWYEUs.jpg?1

(For those who may be interested, I found that the ERD of the original steel rim and the Sun CR18 wasn't an exact match, as is sometimes claimed. While I was able to reuse the old spokes, the CR18's ERD is smaller, so I had to file down a few spoke ends to keep them from poking out through the holes in the rim's well.)

Replacing the seatpost was an interesting operation, as the original was a little shy of 1" in diameter, and the replacement isn't! The seat tube ears had of course bent inward over the years, and so I tried the old trick of "jacking" the seat tube ears back out using a quill stem and a shim. I had to file the inside edges of the seat tube ears to take off some sharp edges, and upended the bike for this operation to keep filings from dropping into the bottom bracket. Some careful wiping and a little grease, and the new seatpost went right in!

I finally got the bike back together this afternoon and rode it around the neighborhood, stopping and making adjustments now and then. Much better! Maybe I'll ride this bike more often now. :)

https://i.imgur.com/khhscrB.jpg

gster 12-02-17 06:01 PM


Originally Posted by ThermionicScott (Post 20028712)
It's been a while since I last posted to this thread. My '64 Armstrong has gotten dusty because the 21" frame with the original short seatpost was too small a fit for me, and the chromed steel rims were never confidence-inspiring.

But as the weather has cooled off, I've had the itch to play with bikes, and I thought: "what could I do to make this bike work better for me?" So I ordered a longer seatpost for better leg extension and a Sun CR18 rim for the front wheel:

https://i.imgur.com/JM5adP7.jpg?1

This was my first time re-rimming a wheel using the existing hub and spokes, and I had an interesting confound, in that one rim was drilled left-handed while the other right-handed (I'm not sure which is which.) At any rate, I decided to advance all of the right-side spokes by one hole on the hub, and then purposefully lace everything one hole "off" to the new rim. That put the valve back between parallel spokes and got the handedness right:

https://i.imgur.com/jVWYEUs.jpg?1

(For those who may be interested, I found that the ERD of the original steel rim and the Sun CR18 wasn't an exact match, as is sometimes claimed. While I was able to reuse the old spokes, the CR18's ERD is smaller, so I had to file down a few spoke ends to keep them from poking out through the holes in the rim's well.)

Replacing the seatpost was an interesting operation, as the original was a little shy of 1" in diameter, and the replacement isn't! The seat tube ears had of course bent inward over the years, and so I tried the old trick of "jacking" the seat tube ears back out using a quill stem and a shim. I had to file the inside edges of the seat tube ears to take off some sharp edges, and upended the bike for this operation to keep filings from dropping into the bottom bracket. Some careful wiping and a little grease, and the new seatpost went right in!

I finally got the bike back together this afternoon and rode it around the neighborhood, stopping and making adjustments now and then. Much better! Maybe I'll ride this bike more often now. :)

https://i.imgur.com/khhscrB.jpg

A handsome machine.

SirMike1983 12-02-17 07:45 PM

Out and about on the Raleigh Twenty - it's a fun little bike, and it's also a great place to start if you want to mess around with an old folder bike. It's also a great bike to expand to if you're already a collector of vintage Raleighs and want something "a little different" from the common Sports or DL-1.

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-jedBixJXx...202_153726.jpg

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ss4of32jF...202_153733.jpg

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-V2ykS9k4h...202_153746.jpg

thumpism 12-02-17 09:19 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Well, a longtime shop in the area is going away. The current owner has had it for more than three decades and he bought it from an old guy who did lots of bread-and-butter low end work. It's been years since I saw the warehouse area but this was the last day and I asked if I could see it and Randy turned me loose. Found some goodies I'll never use but could not resist, two little parts cabinets with Sturmey Archer labels on the front and chock full of SA parts. Let me know if you need anything.
Attachment 591066

jamesj 12-02-17 10:21 PM

If you can find one of these that would be awesome!

A spindle 6GC


https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4516/3...8e91b882_c.jpg

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4575/3...9e057520_b.jpg



Originally Posted by thumpism (Post 20029085)
Well, a longtime shop in the area is going away. The current owner has had it for more than three decades and he bought it from an old guy who did lots of bread-and-butter low end work. It's been years since I saw the warehouse area but this was the last day and I asked if I could see it and Randy turned me loose. Found some goodies I'll never use but could not resist, two little parts cabinets with Sturmey Archer labels on the front and chock full of SA parts. Let me know if you need anything.
Attachment 591066


BigChief 12-02-17 11:28 PM


Originally Posted by thumpism (Post 20029085)
Well, a longtime shop in the area is going away. The current owner has had it for more than three decades and he bought it from an old guy who did lots of bread-and-butter low end work. It's been years since I saw the warehouse area but this was the last day and I asked if I could see it and Randy turned me loose. Found some goodies I'll never use but could not resist, two little parts cabinets with Sturmey Archer labels on the front and chock full of SA parts. Let me know if you need anything.
Attachment 591066

Wow! What a great find. This happened to me in the 70s. Still have a pile of old shifters from that box. @plympton is in need of a clutch spring cap last I heard. I also see a splined, straight leg driver there that would be perfect for anyone looking to convert an older threaded driver hub to use modern cogs. Rare part.

campngolf 12-02-17 11:41 PM


Originally Posted by thumpism (Post 20029085)
Found some goodies I'll never use but could not resist, two little parts cabinets with Sturmey Archer labels on the front and chock full of SA parts. Let me know if you need anything.

What a great find. Those should polish up nicely. But definitely no repaint, it'll hurt the value. :)

johnnyspaghetti 12-03-17 09:15 AM


Originally Posted by jamesj (Post 20029170)

You know it can be repaired. An automotive crankshaft grinder can weld it up & re-grind the race true. It would be an option that would allow you to maintain that original part. I don't know if it would be cost prohibitive.

SirMike1983 12-03-17 10:33 AM


Originally Posted by jamesj (Post 20020663)
I have a Raleigh Superbe and am in the process of getting it put back together. I repacked with 11 1/4" Bearings in each side. I went to adjust the bottom bracket and am getting binding when rotating the spindle. When adjusted with no play I'm getting a loose spindle, Im not sure if the spindle is bent or not. Does anyone have a suggestion or a spare spindle they are wanting to get rid of.

Here is the one I currently have.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4516/3...8e91b882_c.jpg

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4575/3...a2efc6df_c.jpg


Here is also a video of what it looks and feels like.
https://www.flickr.com/gp/jameslovesyou/N636F5

Are you sure this is a 6 and not a "16" with the "1" partially obliterated? If you look closely at that numbering, you can almost see a "1" next to the 6 that was lightly struck. The 16GC also would be common to the Sports frame size, which is consistent with a Superbe based on the Sports platform.

When you measure it, you not only measure the full length of the spindle, but also the distance between the bearing races on it. If you get both measurements, you may be able to compare to a known 16GC set of numbers and determine if that is actually a #6 or if it was a #16 with the 1 lightly struck. If it's a 16GC, you ought to be able to find one online in fairly short order - they are very common.

thumpism 12-03-17 11:11 AM

Sorry, all I got was internal parts for 3-speed hubs. No BB parts. Hope you can find something elsewhere.

Originally Posted by jamesj (Post 20029170)



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