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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

boattail71 03-29-18 05:43 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20251519)
I'm glad to hear that, although in my experience I have trouble giving away old English ladies 3 speeds. For some reason that I don't understand this particular nitch of C&V cycling is almost totally dominated by grown men. I hope your experience is a new trend and more women will come into the fold. It's a fun hobby and the old bikes are still practical and certainly better looking than most modern bikes. Most of the time, I use the term stepthrough because it makes more sense to modern cyclists, but the old fashioned ladies and gents is nice in a vintage context.

Put a basket up front and a cute co-ed looks great on a cute English girl's bike. Makes 'em even cuter... the bike that is of course :)

JohnDThompson 03-29-18 08:37 PM


Originally Posted by browngw (Post 20252516)
https://www.bikeforums.net/attachmen...1&d=1522352509

It would be nice to have a registry of all these parts out there (like 87 pawl springs!) that we could share. I have other SA parts I know I will never use but hate to toss them in the scrap steel bin.

Looks like some SW parts in there; bit of a niche market, eh?

But a good number of axle keys. Can never have too many of them. One nice thing about the two-piece indicators used on some non-AW hubs: they don't strip axle keys, and even if they did, you don't have to open the hub to fix it.

johnnyspaghetti 03-30-18 09:58 AM

I xanI

Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln (Post 20250240)
Yes, two different anti-rotation washers. One is like HMW155. The other doesn't show in Sheldon's list, the tabs that fit in the dropout slot are straight, not curvy, and the washer's outside diameter is slightly bigger. But they fit the same size slot and axle. I could use either but HMW155 is a snugger fit. My real confusion was whether both sets are supposed to be used, one inside the dropouts, the other on the outside. But now I think no--either type could go inside or outside the dropout, but if used on the inside,

I'd want to have a plain flatwasher under the axle nut. (The photo shows the difference.)

I have taken enough of these apart and note how the washers are placed not knowing weather they have been mixed up along the way.
The washer with the bent tabs Have mostly been it where it should be. Seen both

The other is with the heavy grip teeth & dropout guide from I would say 50's - 60"s have come off the outside.I look a t
drop out to see if they stuck the teeth marks in the dropout axle

I would say the heavy tooth washer is far better at staking the axle in at a fixed point. Nice old school grip washer. Fits in the dropout grove.

You still need to find the sweet spot for the adjustment for the outside cones then crank downaxle nuts.
Some say 1/8 turn loose then tighten, but the slop in the axle/nut threads is variable. Could be more , could be less than 1/8 turn.
There are always the smooth thick spacer washers I think are placed to align sprocket more than anything else.

I see 2 of these washers on one side or the other. The sprocket, which is cupped, can also be flipped and has always had 2 spacers as well 1 in 1 out. 2 in 0 out. sometimes 2 on the inside.
The hub sprockets are cupped in and some are cupped out.
The variable is in the frame you are working with. Get out the thin cone wrenches. My friend could edit better I don't lie.

johnnyspaghetti 03-30-18 01:37 PM

Yes/no

BigChief 03-30-18 03:12 PM

I like doing the final wheel bearing adjustment after the wheels are mounted on the bike. For the rear wheel I use 2 of those little SA cone spanners on the non drive side. One for the cone, one for the lock nut. I pull/push the rim side to side and leave a small amount of play. For the front wheel, I slowly tighten until I don't feel any play at the rim.

paulb_in_bkln 03-30-18 04:32 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20254681)
I like doing the final wheel bearing adjustment after the wheels are mounted on the bike. For the rear wheel I use 2 of those little SA cone spanners on the non drive side. One for the cone, one for the lock nut. I pull/push the rim side to side and leave a small amount of play. For the front wheel, I slowly tighten until I don't feel any play at the rim.

Same here.

gster 03-30-18 04:51 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20254681)
I like doing the final wheel bearing adjustment after the wheels are mounted on the bike. For the rear wheel I use 2 of those little SA cone spanners on the non drive side. One for the cone, one for the lock nut. I pull/push the rim side to side and leave a small amount of play. For the front wheel, I slowly tighten until I don't feel any play at the rim.

I concur.

paulb_in_bkln 03-31-18 08:15 AM

Not to get philosophical (obviously that's what I'm about to do), I scratch my head now the way we (meaning me and the few bikies I knew) abandoned the three-speeds way back then, as the 60s closed and the 70s began. All I wanted, dreamed of, finishing up high school, was a UO8. Which shows I suppose the shallowness of my bike knowledge then as I had yet to be introduced to the PX-10, which in any case would have been way above my pay grade; basically I had no pay grade. Now I wonder what was I thinking? The UO8's frame material was similar to the Raleigh Sports; so was the geometry. Chromed steel wheels. Cottered cranks. Steel handlebars. Steel hub shells. Steel seatpost. All the same as the Sports. The UO8 did have an aluminum stem. (Which could break.) The UO8 came with "alpine" gearing--good for then, high considering what bikes come with today--a climbing advantage over the stock Sports. But this would have been rectified easily by switching to a 20 or 22 tooth cog. How often did I pedal in the 52/14 top combination on the UO8? Almost never. Not to mention giving up the reliable AW hub for that plastic Simplex derailleur that one quickly learned was terrible. Being young and flexible then I liked the drop handlebars but that would have been another easy switch on a Sports. The bike shop in my neighborhood focused on the slightly less expensive Dunelt line, but, same difference. All in all, I think it was susceptibility to bike shop sales pitches and herd mentality. Another embarrassment of youth, basically.

markk900 03-31-18 09:28 AM

Yeah, I was the same way...but every so often I would go for a ride on my motherís Raleigh made Glider and have a blast- too bad it was too small.

I will add to your herd mentality that the bike magazines of the time were focused primarily on drop bar racers, with few articles on 3-speeds. I am still looking for an article on Bicycling! that I recall being an IGH done up with cotterless cranks and alloy rims which I remember being intrigued by but like you no pay band meant it was just interesting.....

For many of us the only source of information was the occasional book on cycling at the library (Sloan was my hero), Bicycling! or International Cycle Sport.....not a lot of utility or non-derailleur coverage. I wish I had heard of a Lenton Sports back then.

johnnyspaghetti 03-31-18 10:24 AM

This one looks like new. What brand does this hub look like? Frame?

https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/r...545215189.html

https://images.craigslist.org/00202_...yn_600x450.jpg
https://images.craigslist.org/00505_...yS_600x450.jpg
https://images.craigslist.org/00s0s_...VV_600x450.jpg
https://images.craigslist.org/00w0w_...aC_600x450.jpg

paulb_in_bkln 03-31-18 10:57 AM

I think JC Higgins were Raleigh-made bikes sold by Sears, or some other retail chain, in the USA.

BigChief 03-31-18 11:01 AM


Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln (Post 20255631)
Not to get philosophical (obviously that's what I'm about to do), I scratch my head now the way we (meaning me and the few bikies I knew) abandoned the three-speeds way back then, as the 60s closed and the 70s began. All I wanted, dreamed of, finishing up high school, was a UO8. Which shows I suppose the shallowness of my bike knowledge then as I had yet to be introduced to the PX-10, which in any case would have been way above my pay grade; basically I had no pay grade. Now I wonder what was I thinking? The UO8's frame material was similar to the Raleigh Sports; so was the geometry. Chromed steel wheels. Cottered cranks. Steel handlebars. Steel hub shells. Steel seatpost. All the same as the Sports. The UO8 did have an aluminum stem. (Which could break.) The UO8 came with "alpine" gearing--good for then, high considering what bikes come with today--a climbing advantage over the stock Sports. But this would have been rectified easily by switching to a 20 or 22 tooth cog. How often did I pedal in the 52/14 top combination on the UO8? Almost never. Not to mention giving up the reliable AW hub for that plastic Simplex derailleur that one quickly learned was terrible. Being young and flexible then I liked the drop handlebars but that would have been another easy switch on a Sports. The bike shop in my neighborhood focused on the slightly less expensive Dunelt line, but, same difference. All in all, I think it was susceptibility to bike shop sales pitches and herd mentality. Another embarrassment of youth, basically.

Raleigh made plenty of true sports and touring bikes, but the light roadsters and heavy roadsters were always meant to be utility bikes. Even by today's standards they are very good ones. Super reliable, classy and beautiful too. Back when I was a kid, we used to hot rod old unwanted 3 speeds simply because they were dirt cheap. Lately, here on this thread we have been calling these stripped down and modified 3 speeds scorchers. One of my favorite rides these days is a scorcher I made from a 55 Rudge. The one thing I would never change is the crank. Those beautiful chainrings are just too cool to swap out. The small difference in weight isn't worth it IMO. So either full dressed or scorcherized, these old 3 speeds are a blast to ride.

paulb_in_bkln 03-31-18 11:01 AM


Originally Posted by markk900 (Post 20255708)
Yeah, I was the same way...but every so often I would go for a ride on my motherís Raleigh made Glider and have a blast- too bad it was too small.

I will add to your herd mentality that the bike magazines of the time were focused primarily on drop bar racers, with few articles on 3-speeds. I am still looking for an article on Bicycling! that I recall being an IGH done up with cotterless cranks and alloy rims which I remember being intrigued by but like you no pay band meant it was just interesting.....

For many of us the only source of information was the occasional book on cycling at the library (Sloan was my hero), Bicycling! or International Cycle Sport.....not a lot of utility or non-derailleur coverage. I wish I had heard of a Lenton Sports back then.

That is a very good reminder about the ten-speed focus then of the promotional aspect of the pastime, the books and magazines.

clubman 03-31-18 11:13 AM


Originally Posted by johnnyspaghetti (Post 20255786)
This one looks like new. What brand does this hub look like? Frame?

https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/r...545215189.html

Austrian made Steyr I suspect.

johnnyspaghetti 03-31-18 11:35 AM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 20255841)
Austrian made Steyr I suspect.

That all makes sense.

clubman 03-31-18 12:07 PM

The hub would be an SA licensed clone made by Fichtel & Sachs

dweenk 03-31-18 12:56 PM


Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln (Post 20255814)
I think JC Higgins were Raleigh-made bikes sold by Sears, or some other retail chain, in the USA.

You are correct about J.C. Higgins being a Sears brand, but I believe that their earlier 3-speeds were built by Steyr in Austria. They were very decent bikes and the hubs were licensed clones of the S/A AW hub. Later models were US built and not nearly as nice.

BigChief 03-31-18 03:43 PM

Here's my next project. A 1951 23" Rudge Sports. All there except the grips. Front fender has some serious issues. It will test my restoration skills.

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/873/4...81d61d4b_b.jpg51Rudge01 by Billy Bones, on Flickr
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/821/4...56518434_b.jpg51Rudge02 by Billy Bones, on Flickr
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/808/4...d4652a7c_b.jpg51Rudge05 by Billy Bones, on Flickr
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/880/4...677c49f1_b.jpg51Rudge04 by Billy Bones, on Flickr
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/879/4...07885db7_b.jpg51Rudge06 by Billy Bones, on Flickr

paulb_in_bkln 03-31-18 04:49 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20255818)
Back when I was a kid, we used to hot rod old unwanted 3 speeds simply because they were dirt cheap. Lately, here on this thread we have been calling these stripped down and modified 3 speeds scorchers. One of my favorite rides these days is a scorcher I made from a 55 Rudge. The one thing I would never change is the crank. Those beautiful chainrings are just too cool to swap out. The small difference in weight isn't worth it IMO. So either full dressed or scorcherized, these old 3 speeds are a blast to ride.

I've wondered if late 60s early 70s, any 650a aluminum clincher rims were available. If not what were upgraded rims you could put on your scorcher?

Ballenxj 03-31-18 04:49 PM


Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln (Post 20255814)
I think JC Higgins were Raleigh-made bikes sold by Sears, or some other retail chain, in the USA.

Looks like a Raleigh to me, but what do I know? J.C. Higgins was a Montgomery Ward brand I believe.

nlerner 03-31-18 05:05 PM

Nice catch, @BigChief! Looks in remarkably good shape to me.

rhenning 03-31-18 05:09 PM

JC Higgins was a Sears brand before they became Ted Williams or the other way around. I think Higgins was first. Roger

Ballenxj 03-31-18 05:17 PM


Originally Posted by rhenning (Post 20256365)
JC Higgins was a Sears brand before they became Ted Williams or the other way around. I think Higgins was first. Roger

You're right, I had to look it up. J.C. Higgins: 1908-1964

browngw 03-31-18 06:03 PM

Nice looking Rudge Sports @BigChief . I purchased a couple of small body dollies at Harbor Freight and in concert with a small ball peen hammer and some wood blocks have straightened out fenders and the like quite successfully. I'm sure it will look great!

BigChief 03-31-18 06:39 PM


Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln (Post 20256344)
I've wondered if late 60s early 70s, any 650a aluminum clincher rims were available. If not what were upgraded rims you could put on your scorcher?

Back then I didn't have money for new rims. My kid 3 speed had rusty steel Endricks. I did save up and buy a cheap molded plastic "racing seat". These days CR-18s are the ticket for 650A. Although, I was thinking that without fenders, thinner tires on 700c rims might work. I don't know, haven't tried. The brake calipers always seem to have a lot of upward adjustment left in em. I even have a 36H AW hub in my spares box. I think I have one more scorcher build left in me. I just need a 23" frameset that's in bad enough condition that I won't mind repainting it.

BigChief 03-31-18 07:03 PM


Originally Posted by browngw (Post 20256429)
Nice looking Rudge Sports @BigChief . I purchased a couple of small body dollies at Harbor Freight and in concert with a small ball peen hammer and some wood blocks have straightened out fenders and the like quite successfully. I'm sure it will look great!

The rear of the fender is squashed almost flat. I've been making wooden forms by cutting shapes out of boards with a scroll saw. That works for small soft dents, but we'll see how it goes with this. The bigger problem is the front end is rusted away badly. What's left of the steel is thin, pitted and fragile. I can't just leave it. I think I'll try reinforcing it underneath, filling the pits and try matching the paint over the repair. I don't know if I can pull it off or not, but I'm going to try. If it goes bad, I have a 64 Sports I could rob the fender from. Been looking it over. Perfect match.

gster 03-31-18 09:25 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20255818)
Raleigh made plenty of true sports and touring bikes, but the light roadsters and heavy roadsters were always meant to be utility bikes. Even by today's standards they are very good ones. Super reliable, classy and beautiful too. Back when I was a kid, we used to hot rod old unwanted 3 speeds simply because they were dirt cheap. Lately, here on this thread we have been calling these stripped down and modified 3 speeds scorchers. One of my favorite rides these days is a scorcher I made from a 55 Rudge. The one thing I would never change is the crank. Those beautiful chainrings are just too cool to swap out. The small difference in weight isn't worth it IMO. So either full dressed or scorcherized, these old 3 speeds are a blast to ride.


"Scorcherized"...
Webster's?
We need a call on this.

paulb_in_bkln 03-31-18 09:43 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20256247)
Here's my next project. A 1951 23" Rudge Sports. All there except the grips. Front fender has some serious issues. It will test my restoration skills.

Are you aiming for a like-new (or better) restoration or more keep-things-real result?

paulb_in_bkln 03-31-18 09:55 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20256503)
Back then I didn't have money for new rims. My kid 3 speed had rusty steel Endricks. I did save up and buy a cheap molded plastic "racing seat". These days CR-18s are the ticket for 650A. Although, I was thinking that without fenders, thinner tires on 700c rims might work. I don't know, haven't tried. The brake calipers always seem to have a lot of upward adjustment left in em. I even have a 36H AW hub in my spares box. I think I have one more scorcher build left in me. I just need a 23" frameset that's in bad enough condition that I won't mind repainting it.

I don't think the CR18 rims are really made by a company in Asia. They've been sent by heaven. They're so perfect. I found somewhere online an Araya catalog from the very end of the 60s or beginning of the 70s and it listed a 26 inch aluminum rim, no eyelets. But I think it might have been the 26-inch that Schwinn used, not the Raleigh 26. (Rim sizes cause me to perspire heavily.) So back then a wheel upgrade might have meant a lighter, narrower, steel rim, not aluminum.

BigChief 03-31-18 10:57 PM


Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln (Post 20256750)
Are you aiming for a like-new (or better) restoration or more keep-things-real result?

This is a preservation project. The only restoration element is the front fender. Every piece except the spokes is coming apart for cleaning. New ball bearings all around and a polish and wax for the paint. I might swap out the threaded driver with a splined one so I could have cog options.


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