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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

NVFlinch 11-01-23 06:51 PM

Age 8, before riding the bike into the back of that car that really should not have been parked in my way !
https://i.imgur.com/1LjLirL.png

52telecaster 11-01-23 06:52 PM


Originally Posted by NVFlinch (Post 23059247)
Age 8, before riding the bike into the back of that car that really should not have been parked in my way !
https://i.imgur.com/1LjLirL.png

Awesome pic, I hit the back of a parked car delivering papers. The wald basket was bent but not broken.

Cyclespanner 11-02-23 03:19 AM


Originally Posted by 52telecaster (Post 23059249)
Awesome pic, I hit the back of a parked car delivering papers. The wald basket was bent but not broken.

I'm 3 years older than my brother. I never had these 'incidents'.
He, however had a long cycling history of finding parked cars to hit or hedges to tangle with.

Cyclespanner 11-02-23 10:10 AM

Here's an opinion which just formed in my wayward mind....

Whatever negative features of steel rims, real or imagined, the fact that they are relatively heavy by modern standards is a reason their revolving weight has the advantage of being effectively a pair of flywheels.

After a recent ride I noticed the oft referred phenomena where, once one gets up to a chosen speed the cycle appears to become effortlessly propelled.

I imagine the rotating mass of the rims do indeed become flywheels.
Of course all wheels will have this characteristic, but the heavier the rim of a gyroscope will have stored the energy you expended to get it up to speed.

So not all that extra effort you put into accelerating those heavy rims goes to waste; the rims have stored it and contribute towards your progress down the road.

These 3 Speeds are meant to be ridden in a leisurely manner.
By not fighting the weight of the rims, but taking your time to get to 'Raleigh Supercruise', remember one aspect of your progressive effort is put energy into your gyroscopic wheels, which to some degree conserve it.
A continuous uninterrupted journey should highlight this. Also coasting distance will be enhanced.

The negative side to this is that energy laden wheel will take more effort to stop it.
:backpedal:
That's my 'Juggernaut' theory.

SirMike1983 11-02-23 11:57 AM

The two main issues with chrome plated steel rims are weight/acceleration, and braking surface.

I have a Raleigh Clubman with early Dunlop alloy Westrick rims. The rims have the same tires as some of my steel westrick steel rims, so the main difference in the wheels are the rims themselves.

Comparing them to chromed steel westricks, the alloy wheels are much lighter, accelerate more easily, climb easier, and stop better. They must have been a revelation for sport riders back in the early postwar era.

The chromed steel westrick rims stay in true better and give a more comfortable ride over bumps and are easier to repair. The steel westricks are legendary for durability and longevity on a utility bike.

In between are the Dunlop stainless and lightweight steel endrick rims. They're a middle point between the chromed steel and the aluminum alloy. They would be in between the chromed steel and alloy in the characteristics named above. I have a set on my 1953 Lenton, which are very comfortable riding wheels indeed.

I would ride a good condition set of any of the rims named above. They're all well-made, just different in what they do well. The alloys are hard to beat if you're pure sporting rider, and the chromed steel is nice if you're a utility rider looking for durability. In between, the dunlop stainless and lightweight steels are a good balance.

Ged117 11-02-23 11:59 AM


Originally Posted by Cyclespanner (Post 23059636)
Here's an opinion which just formed in my wayward mind....

Whatever negative features of steel rims, real or imagined, the fact that they are relatively heavy by modern standards is a reason their revolving weight has the advantage of being effectively a pair of flywheels.

After a recent ride I noticed the oft referred phenomena where, once one gets up to a chosen speed the cycle appears to become effortlessly propelled.

I imagine the rotating mass of the rims do indeed become flywheels.
Of course all wheels will have this characteristic, but the heavier the rim of a gyroscope will have stored the energy you expended to get it up to speed.

So not all that extra effort you put into accelerating those heavy rims goes to waste; the rims have stored it and contribute towards your progress down the road.

These 3 Speeds are meant to be ridden in a leisurely manner.
By not fighting the weight of the rims, but taking your time to get to 'Raleigh Supercruise', remember one aspect of your progressive effort is put energy into your gyroscopic wheels, which to some degree conserve it.
A continuous uninterrupted journey should highlight this. Also coasting distance will be enhanced.

The negative side to this is that energy laden wheel will take more effort to stop it.
:backpedal:
That's my 'Juggernaut' theory.

Using my three-speed with steel wheels for general utilitarian use, including running a heavy grocery load homeward, has proven this theory time and again in practical experience on the road. When heavy laden with all the items in the bags I drop to low gear, but once up to speed its easy to keep running along, if you're lucky to have relatively flat paths along the canal / rivers like we have here. Sometimes I even drop to High gear and get up to a good clip. I do have a 20T cog though.

benuger 11-03-23 09:05 AM

This discussion of theoretical physics really hits the mark. It certainly captures the essence of my recent experiences rambling a 24" roadster on paved and gravel rail trails; and how fun that has been! Why would I want the brakes?

In addition to the Juggernaut theory of flywheel propulsion, there is the sheer momentum that 42 pounds of moving steel brings to the road after getting up to a little speed. Roll on mighty Columbia! Roll on.

Cyclespanner 11-03-23 09:54 AM


Originally Posted by benuger (Post 23060551)
This discussion of theoretical physics really hits the mark. It certainly captures the essence of my recent experiences rambling a 24" roadster on paved and gravel rail trails; and how fun that has been! Why would I want the brakes?

In addition to the Juggernaut theory of flywheel propulsion, there is the sheer momentum that 42 pounds of moving steel brings to the road after getting up to a little speed. Roll on mighty Columbia! Roll on.

Don't forget to include the weight of the rider! That's only the engine. :speedy:

SirMike1983 11-03-23 02:19 PM

Late season ride - Raleigh Model 35 light roadster.

https://blogger.googleusercontent.co...102_173351.jpg

zookster 11-03-23 03:22 PM

My latest "For the Love of English 3 Speeds" influenced buying decision. A 1954 Raleigh with rod operated drum brakes, in a small frame size. Is it a Sports, Roadster, Superbe or other model? From the decals it was an export model destined to Singapore.


https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d4565312ab.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...786d3fd638.jpg
Seat tube decal. Reads " Choon Seng 155 Hill St. Singapore"
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...765a960ed3.jpg
Seat tube decal.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b9f18a1b2e.jpg
Upper seat tube decal.
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c0ec048753.jpg
Headtube lug decal, reads "Special"
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...df416db356.jpg
Downtube decal "Robinson & Co Ltd, Singapore & Kualalumpur, Sole Distributors"
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...093ad142b5.jpg
Chaincase decal.
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...0e80431dc3.jpg
Rear hub stamped 6 54
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...435925ad23.jpg
Front hub also stamped 6 54
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5a801a196a.jpg
Serial number.

gna 11-03-23 03:53 PM

Someone at work was tearing down his shed, and asked me if I wanted his old bikes. Now I have two more DL1s:
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d46976bda9.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...6fd4a9bf43.jpg
The gentleman's bike has a Nexus 7 speed hub--that was a surprise. I'm trying to figure out what to do with them.

clubman 11-03-23 04:10 PM

They're in spanking nice condition. Nice one, er two.

benuger 11-04-23 11:31 AM

Nexus 7 on 28 x1-1/2" Wheel
 
The gentleman's bike has a Nexus 7 speed hub--that was a surprise. I'm trying to figure out what to do with them.[/QUOTE]

Having recently rhapsodized about my experience riding the DL1, my first and favorite vintage bike, I have most of a second one in parts, and have been fantasizing about finding or building a roadster wheel with 7 or 9 speeds for it, which I hope would be a pretty fun and capable touring/bikepacking steed for riding long rail trails. I haven't seen or heard of 7speeds on 28 x 1-1/2" wheels before this. Does anyone know where such a wheel might be found, or where they were used? I'd also appreciate an opinion of how well such touring bike would work out in reality.

I am also curious how wide a span at the rear dropout is necessary to handle the Nexus 7speed. and if it would be necessary to spread the frame to accommodate one.

What to do with them? Ride them of course? Short of thatr, sell one of them to me!

Cyclespanner 11-04-23 03:17 PM

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...95032a91f3.jpg
Here's how to triple the value of my 'Chiltern'...
just got a fine pair of 'historic' pedals off ebay...

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...3d01ca4926.jpg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...1b5bcd2bcc.jpg

1989Pre 11-04-23 03:23 PM


Originally Posted by Cyclespanner (Post 23061799)
Here's how to triple the value of my 'Chiltern'...
just got a fine pair of 'historic' pedals off ebay...

Made by Holdsworth, right? Nice race pedals.

Cyclespanner 11-04-23 03:29 PM


Originally Posted by 1989Pre (Post 23061811)
Made by Holdsworth, right? Nice race pedals.

Quick and well spotted, indeed they are Holdsworth pedals.
Got to be better than the bearingless standard ones fitted to my Raleigh.

1989Pre 11-04-23 03:32 PM


Originally Posted by zookster (Post 23060949)
My latest "For the Love of English 3 Speeds" influenced buying decision. A 1954 Raleigh with rod operated drum brakes, in a small frame size. Is it a Sports, Roadster, Superbe or other model? From the decals it was an export model destined to Singapore.

Is this the bike you wanted to pick up before you left on your trip? Did he hold on to it for you? It looks great. It sure looks like a proper roadster to me, with the full chain case. Have you been able to compare the size of the wheels with some 26"? Have you ridden it? I'd like to get a roadster one day.

1989Pre 11-04-23 03:49 PM


Originally Posted by Cyclespanner (Post 23061815)
Quick and well spotted, indeed they are Holdsworth pedals.
Got to be better than the bearingless standard ones fitted to my Raleigh.

I don't think I've seen a set for sale before. Certainly not in that fine condition.

Cyclespanner 11-04-23 04:06 PM


Originally Posted by 1989Pre (Post 23061836)
I don't think I've seen a set for sale before. Certainly not in that fine condition.

The initial 'A' caught my attention (my own first initial).
Did a little research, to find they are out of the ordinary.

Ebay has 2 other sets for sale. 3&5 times the cost of what I paid!
Nice to feel I'm a 'Winner' for a change.

gna 11-04-23 08:06 PM


Originally Posted by benuger (Post 23061630)

The gentleman's bike has a Nexus 7 speed hub--that was a surprise. I'm trying to figure out what to do with them.
Having recently rhapsodized about my experience riding the DL1, my first and favorite vintage bike, I have most of a second one in parts, and have been fantasizing about finding or building a roadster wheel with 7 or 9 speeds for it, which I hope would be a pretty fun and capable touring/bikepacking steed for riding long rail trails. I haven't seen or heard of 7speeds on 28 x 1-1/2" wheels before this. Does anyone know where such a wheel might be found, or where they were used? I'd also appreciate an opinion of how well such touring bike would work out in reality.

I am also curious how wide a span at the rear dropout is necessary to handle the Nexus 7speed. and if it would be necessary to spread the frame to accommodate one.

What to do with them? Ride them of course? Short of thatr, sell one of them to me!

Well, I already have a DL1 of similar vintage, though this one is in better condition, plus a 7 speed hub:
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b3ad2668c9.jpg

I'm trying to decide if I should sell mine and keep this one. The lady's is too big for my wife and daughter, though one of my coworkers is rather tall and she may be interested.
I'll go measure the rear dropout and report back.

gna 11-04-23 08:50 PM


Originally Posted by Cyclespanner (Post 23061799)

I'm a little weak on old British money, but that was 22 shillings and 6 pence, right? 20 shillings to a pound--wonder why they didn't write it as 1-2-6

zookster 11-04-23 08:57 PM


Originally Posted by 1989Pre (Post 23061821)
Is this the bike you wanted to pick up before you left on your trip? Did he hold on to it for you? It looks great. It sure looks like a proper roadster to me, with the full chain case. Have you been able to compare the size of the wheels with some 26"? Have you ridden it? I'd like to get a roadster one day.

That one sold. This one a friend found for me at the recent Copake meet. It has 28 x 1-1/2 tires on it. Overall it is not quite as nice condition-wise as the '63 I got from @SirMike1983 earlier this year. I have only ridden it on a 1 mile test ride in my 'hood. it rode well enough on that short ride. I plan to take it for a longer ride tomorrow in and around downtown Birmingham.

SirMike1983 11-04-23 09:56 PM


Originally Posted by zookster (Post 23062046)
That one sold. This one a friend found for me at the recent Copake meet. It has 28 x 1-1/2 tires on it. Overall it is not quite as nice condition-wise as the '63 I got from @SirMike1983 earlier this year. I have only ridden it on a 1 mile test ride in my 'hood. it rode well enough on that short ride. I plan to take it for a longer ride tomorrow in and around downtown Birmingham.

My impression is that both of those roadsters were "export" models. The recent one you came across is a Singapore export, and the one you got from me (as near as I could tell) came over from somewhere in Europe. The '63 came with deteriorated Austrian made tires (my guess was always an army or student bring back from 1960s Austria or West Germany, but it's speculation on my part).

gna 11-05-23 02:24 AM


Originally Posted by zookster (Post 23060949)
My latest "For the Love of English 3 Speeds" influenced buying decision. A 1954 Raleigh with rod operated drum brakes, in a small frame size. Is it a Sports, Roadster, Superbe or other model? From the decals it was an export model destined to Singapore.


https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d4565312ab.jpg

Sure looks like a roadster. The bolted on seat stays say DL1 to me. Curious that it has both a dynohub and a bottle generator in front.

Cyclespanner 11-05-23 04:41 AM


Originally Posted by gna (Post 23062044)
I'm a little weak on old British money, but that was 22 shillings and 6 pence, right? 20 shillings to a pound--wonder why they didn't write it as 1-2-6

That would have been £1 2/6 back then.
2/6' was a Half Crown (Two Shillings and Six Pence)

Coins at that time were ('Change')
Farthing = 1/4 of a penny = 1/4d
Half Penny - 'ha'penny' = 1/2d
Penny =1d
Three Penny =3d
Sixpence = 6d = 'Tanner''
One Shilling = 1/- = 'Bob'
Two Shillings = 2/- = 'Florin'
Half Crown = 2/6
Crown = five Shillings = 5/-

One Guinea = 21 Shillings (a nominal amount, not a coin as such)

Notes:-
10 Shillings = 'Ten Bob'
£1 - 20 Shillings ='Quid'
£5 - 100 Shillings = 'Five Quid'
£10 - 'Tenner'
£20
I think there was a £50, but common folk never had one!

Being the generation that was introduced to 'Decimalisation' (£1 = 100p) simplified everything; at least to me!

Think I got that lot correct.

Aardwolf 11-05-23 05:21 AM


Originally Posted by Cyclespanner (Post 23062149)
That would have been £1 2/6 back then.
2/6' was a Half Crown (Two Shillings and Six Pence)

Coins at that time were ('Change')
Farthing = 1/4 of a penny = 1/4d
Half Penny - 'ha'penny' = 1/2d
Penny =1d
Three Penny =3d
Sixpence = 6d = 'Tanner''
One Shilling = 1/- = 'Bob'
Two Shillings = 2/- = 'Florin'
Half Crown = 2/6
Crown = five Shillings = 5/-

One Guinea = 21 Shillings (a nominal amount, not a coin as such)

Notes:-
10 Shillings = 'Ten Bob'
£1 - 20 Shillings ='Quid'
£5 - 100 Shillings = 'Five Quid'
£10 - 'Tenner'
£20
I think there was a £50, but common folk never had one!

Being the generation that was introduced to 'Decimalisation' (£1 = 100p) simplified everything; at least to me!

Think I got that lot correct.

Entirely correct I think, I do just about remember using old coins.
I think I also remember holding a 10 bob note, according to the web that went out in 1969 and I do remember watching the moon landing.
I 'inherited' my childhood coin collection from my parent's house a couple of years back so I could check.

I think 22'6 is easier to say, and just maybe it sounds a bit like it's cheaper that £1 something.

Apparently 8% of Londoners still use rhyming slang for money :)

https://romanroadlondon.com/cockney-...g-slang-money/
During the 2012 Olympics, an ATM on Commercial Street gave customers the language option of ‘Cockney rhyming slang’. To withdraw a bit of ’sausage and mash’ (cash), you were first asked to enter your ‘Huckleberry Finn’ (pin). This led to monetary prompts such as ‘Lady Godiva’ (£5) and ‘Horn of Plenty’ (£20).

Cyclespanner 11-05-23 05:41 AM


Originally Posted by Aardwolf (Post 23062160)
Entirely correct I think, I do just about remember using old coins.
I think I also remember holding a 10 bob note, according to the web that went out in 1969 and I do remember watching the moon landing.
I 'inherited' my childhood coin collection from my parent's house a couple of years back so I could check.

I think 22'6 is easier to say, and just maybe it sounds a bit like it's cheaper that £1 something.

Apparently 8% of Londoners still use rhyming slang for money :)

https://romanroadlondon.com/cockney-...g-slang-money/
During the 2012 Olympics, an ATM on Commercial Street gave customers the language option of ‘Cockney rhyming slang’. To withdraw a bit of ’sausage and mash’ (cash), you were first asked to enter your ‘Huckleberry Finn’ (pin). This led to monetary prompts such as ‘Lady Godiva’ (£5) and ‘Horn of Plenty’ (£20).

Of course this is all off topic, but does add context to 3 speed history.

It was interesting to look at your 'small change' before Decimalisation and see all the Monarch's 'heads'
Queen Victoria
King Edward VII
King George V
King George VI
Queen Elizabeth II

Silver coins were 100% Silver until 1919
then 50% silver until 1949

When I left school in 1972, if you could get a job, an expected weekly wage would have been £5!

zookster 11-05-23 06:48 AM


Originally Posted by gna (Post 23062122)
Sure looks like a roadster. The bolted on seat stays say DL1 to me. Curious that it has both a dynohub and a bottle generator in front.

It has drum brakes front and rear, no dynohub. The bottle generator and headlight still work, but having trouble getting it to maintain sufficient pressure on the tire to operate. I have tried adjusting the position on the fork, but unless I manually press the bottle against the tire it won't spin consistently.


https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...254395aeb0.jpg

tcs 11-05-23 08:23 AM


Originally Posted by Cyclespanner (Post 23062149)
One Guinea = 21 Shillings (a nominal amount, not a coin as such)

My 'guide to Victorian Times' suggested one purchased ordinary things and paid a tradesman in pounds, but purchased quality goods and paid gentlemen in Guineas.

Alex Moulton fittingly, then, priced his cycles in Guineas. :) From 1965:

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...0131feedf.jpeg

Aardwolf 11-05-23 09:49 AM

Point of Information :)
.
There is such a thing as a Guinea coin, minted from 1663 to 1814, containing about 1/4oz of gold.
.
From https://www.lbma.org.uk/wonders-of-g...the-royal-mint
The guinea initially had a nominal value of 20 shillings but its actual value fluctuated, sometimes dramatically, until finally being set in stone by Sir Isaac Newton the Master of the Mint, in 1717, at 21 shillings. This was the equivalent of a fine gold price of £4.4s.11½d per troy ounce, a price that would survive for the next 200 years.
.
And now back to your regular programming


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