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-   -   Interesting finds around the web (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=929230)

dunderhi 02-05-15 07:41 PM

As a national record holder myself, I still don't understand your recommendation to a new rider? Is a power meter supposed to make you a safer bike handler? Does Ketonic diet ensure your helmet is strapped on correctly? Please be comprehensive with any advice, so no one dies from incomplete advice in a forum post. :eek:

I personally find new riders are overly concerned about flashy equipment and winning their very first race. I had no plans to win any bike races my first year back, but I nearly swept my districts (one silver) and picked up a gold and a silver at my regionals. All that was done at an obese 255lbs and it was done by riding hard, good diet, and getting sufficient sleep. Before there are any ridiculous remarks, the good diet got me down from 344lbs without any knowledge of ketonics.

BTW, no rotary phone here, as the holder of a Ph.D. in Engineering, I've never had an issue with technology. I just don't see a power meter as a necessary device to provide significant improvement to a new rider. I'm enjoying cycling by pedaling fast and riding hard (our club motto). If I desired to be a Cat 1, I would look for the last 20%, but from the looks of it, Cat 2 will be achievable with only the first 80%. I will claim that I'm an 80% rider, so I guess my death is imminent. Although as a Master, I'm not sure what benefit, if any, there is for going beyond Cat 3, so maybe I'm only a 60% rider.


Originally Posted by Racer Ex
Just don't tell me what sinks your boat won't float mine and very effective tools are "nonsense".

It certainly looks like you were trying to sink gtrob's 80%/20% boat by claiming death is an outcome of his posted methodology. People like me, gtrob, and queerpunk seem to understand that there are big gains and little gains to be made. New riders should focus on the big gains and worry about the little gains when they need those advantages. Sorry if that sinks your boat.

P.S. I don't know anyone who has died in a bike race, so my view isn't as dark as yours.

700wheel 02-05-15 11:58 PM


Originally Posted by gtrob (Post 17529500)
Not sure how or why I came across this the other day (I don't hang out on lifting forums at all) but thought this was so applicable to cycling, even track

The 80/20 rule
The 80/20 Rule for Lifting - Bodybuilding.com Forums

The idea is that 20% of the details will get you 80% of your results. So the basics, eating right, sleeping well, riding hard, is 20% of the theory of training, but get you 80% of your results. While all the details like how much to eat, how long are intervals, what time should I train, all the non-sense, makes up for only 20% (generally speaking of course).

I love it, and think its such a good message. People get hung up on training plan details, diets, periodization, etc. If you just do the basics, eat well, sleep well, ride hard, you will get most of the way there and have a lot more fun doing it.


Its not to say ignore the fine details, especially as you get to the top of your game. But people new to the sport, really need to just worry about the 20% for a while and its all they need to progress and enjoy the sport.

The 80/20 rule is known as the Pareto Principle and is commonly used in business, engineering,& human factors to name areas that I practice; I'm sure this principle would hold true for track cycling. For example aerodynamics would be among the 20% of areas to concentrate on for pursuit riders.

But as gtrob says you can't ignore the other 80% if you are aiming to be a top rider (look at what the extreme precautions taken by the British track team).

Jancouver 02-07-15 08:53 AM


Originally Posted by Racer Ex (Post 17531822)
Most of the old school people who denigrate the newer technical aspects of the sport don't understand them. It's like taking a rotary dial phone away and handing them an iPhone.

You've assumed everyone isn't having fun (or as much as they could) or progresses faster using the new tools, and you've decided that people don't need them unless they are Cat 1, and that it's "nonsense". It's admittedly new to you, yet you've decided you know enough to pass judgement.

Your judgement certainly flies in the face of my personal experience (see below), of most of the athletes I coach, and of many of the people I race with. Not all, but plenty enough.



I know of two new riders who have died in the past few years. Go to any local crit and count the ambulance rides. It's 100% sport because it can cost you 100%. We take way too casual of an approach with new racers compared to most sports with similar risks. Probably 30% of what we should be doing. Another math topic for another time.

I did/do mentoring at local races. Half the guys in Cat 5 races have their helmet straps hanging around their collar. Most of them don't have power meters, diet, or training plans. Or 12 lb bikes. They think ketone is a punk band. They pin their numbers on upside yet are supposed to figure out what "ride hard" means. They have a wealth of vague/bad advice though.

Making the blanket assumption that any of the new paradigm gets in the way of learning how to race is also wrong. Old school folks did just as much stupid stuff without the modern distractions. And I know a ton of old school folks who burned out or went slow on your "ride hard" program. I know a lot of folks who do the same today. Because it's amorphous. Just like "eat well" or "avoid processed foods". Water is processed. So is pasta, wine, coffee, oatmeal and a bunch of other stuff.

The devil, like in many things, is in the details. And if you think people can solve simple problems, check this out. My friend runs a cardiac rehab unit. His quote: "Everyone tells me they eat well"

FWIW I started racing in 2004. 44 year old cat 5. Used all the technology I could find, hired a coach, Etc. I was a cat 1 by 2008. To date:

Race Total 555
Win Total 141
Podium Totals 244
Top Ten totals 379
State Champ 17
State Medals 32
Out of State Champ 3
Natl Champ 3
National Medals 6
National Records 1
Course records 1

This includes stage races, TT's, track, RR's, crits, and even the odd MTB race. Won state titles in all those disciplines. Won two cyclocross races (not proud to admit that). Most of this was done on 6-10 hours of specific training a week and a mediocre sprint.

You know what? Crushing souls is fun. A lot of fun. Certainly more fun than being blown out the back. I even won $3k one weekend.

If I added on stuff my athletes have done there would be a lot more good stuff in there. I work with a diverse group and they are all pretty happy with what they are getting out of the "nonsense". But that's them.

Lest folks think I'm demanding everyone should have 3 SRM's (a fact I'm not especially proud of), a coach, a body fat analyzer, an oxygen concentrator, and a wind tunnel, I'm not. Whatever floats your boat. If you like the technical aspects embrace them.

If dealing with the technical stuff isn't fun, then don't do it. Same with following a training plan. Same with diet. I had pizza and a bottle of wine last night.

Just don't tell me what sinks your boat won't float mine and very effective tools are "nonsense".

Well, and there is the other group of those that may do all that, including 3 SRMs, hi-tech equipment, experienced coach, good training plan, hours of hard training and still get no results from any race :lol:

Oldan Slo 02-07-15 12:06 PM


Originally Posted by Jancouver (Post 17535826)
Well, and there is the other group of those that may do all that, including 3 SRMs, hi-tech equipment, experienced coach, good training plan, hours of hard training and still get no results from any race :lol:

That's the problem with giving 100%. The 110%ers will beat them every time.

Baby Puke 02-10-15 11:12 AM

Sooooo, in what alternate universe is this bike UCI legal?

Gallery: Rohan Dennis' hour record BMC TrackMachine TR01 | Cyclingnews.com

wens 02-10-15 11:43 AM

Based on not being available to the public, or...?

queerpunk 02-10-15 12:10 PM


Originally Posted by Baby Puke (Post 17543181)
Sooooo, in what alternate universe is this bike UCI legal?

Gallery: Rohan Dennis' hour record BMC TrackMachine TR01 | Cyclingnews.com

i hate so much cycling 'news' writing.

Dennis' SRM head unit is show as being fitted on the back of the seatpost – the preferred position for many track riders, who ride on feel and pacing rather than staring at wattages.

Baby Puke 02-10-15 12:33 PM

Based on the one-off parts made for it, the cockpit and rear cog to name two

queerpunk 02-10-15 12:48 PM


Originally Posted by Baby Puke (Post 17543364)
Based on the one-off parts made for it, the cockpit and rear cog to name two

have they ever enforced that?

after all, it's not like somebody can actually buy a katsanis.

carleton 02-10-15 03:59 PM

Spare no expense on the frame, wind-tunnel testing, custom cog, etc...


Tyres: Continental Tempo
Why not the Conti Olympic?

Also:


BMC's Impec Advanced R&D Lab took 3T's Brezza Nano track bar, combined it with an adapted stem and the fork and wrapped it in carbon to add strength
Why would you need added strength to some TT bars? He's not doing a Kilo. Of every piece of equipment involved, the bars will endure the least amount of stress.

Also, if I'm laying on these bars for an hour, the last thing I want is for them to be stiff and unforgiving.

That entire article sounds like it was written by someone in the BMC Marketing department.

"We gotta sprinkle 'Lighter', 'Stiffer', and 'Faster' around as much as possible..." It's almost like they selling bikes in a bike shop :D

carleton 02-10-15 04:04 PM

Sigh...

Also, they mention all of this:


Full Specifications

Specs

Frame: 2015 Trackmachine TR01, p2p x subA, full carbon, replaceable alloy dropouts
Fork: 2015 Trackmachine TR01, subA, full carbon hinge, custom integrated stem / bar
Crank: Shimano 9000 175mm, 53-56T, SRM-equipped
Chain: Shimano 9000 Dura-Ace (3/32”)
Cog: Impec Advanced R&D Lab custom machined 13 / 14t
Bar: 3T Brezza II Nano LTD, HM carbon, 30cm
Seat: Fizik Arione R3 braided
Pedals: Shimano Dura-Ace 9000
Tyres: Continental Tempo 19mm, 15.5 bar
Why not mention the wheels?

They even mention the tire pressure, but not the wheels?

Yeah, definitely written by the Marketing Dept.

Also...the tires are installed backwards. Labels are supposed to be on the inside so that they don't slip on the track at low speeds:

http://cdn.media.cyclingnews.com/201...700_80_670.jpg

GET IT TOGETHER, Marketing Department!

Baby Puke 02-10-15 06:48 PM


Originally Posted by queerpunk (Post 17543400)
have they ever enforced that?

after all, it's not like somebody can actually buy a katsanis.

I had to google that, it's the Lotus bike of Boardman et al.

Anyhow, the point is- why have all this non-modification, must be off-the-shelf verbiage when this obviously hyped event just flies in the face of the rules? I mean, it's ironic that the reason this event is taking off again is because the rules were changed, but then they don't even abide by these same rules! Amirite??

gtrob 02-10-15 07:43 PM

Why the DA crank? While I doubt there is much in the way to aerodynamic drag in it, there are much more aerodynamic cranks. Perhaps just a shimano sponsor thing?

I wish they would actually post an interview with an intelligent engineer to talk about all the mods and choices, especially wrapping the bars.

taras0000 02-10-15 07:43 PM

I agree. It's so stupid that they let something like this through. The custom cockpit business is ridiculous. Who the hell needs a custom machined cog?!?!?!?! It's a friggin track frame to begin with, so chainline is normal, therefore any stock cog on a track wheel will work. You don't even need a custom track bike! Just use the road going TT model, swap out the axle on a track disc, and use a half link once you're set on gearing to get proper chain length. Hell, most of the top TT bikes use horizontal dropouts anyway. Jens' bike was modified, Brandle's bike was modified, Rohans was least modified, although still illegal in my opinion. The only guy to use a legal bike was the only guy to miss his mark. In the spirit AND the letter of the rules, Bobridge is the current record holder.

700wheel 02-10-15 08:44 PM


Originally Posted by gtrob (Post 17544431)
Why the DA crank?..........................................

Dennis used a road crank set (hence the special cog); I suspect this was to maintain the same Q that he uses on the road to avoid injury.

taras0000 02-10-15 08:51 PM

That can be rectified with a longer BB spindle

queerpunk 02-10-15 09:37 PM


Originally Posted by Baby Puke (Post 17544325)
I had to google that, it's the Lotus bike of Boardman et al.

Anyhow, the point is- why have all this non-modification, must be off-the-shelf verbiage when this obviously hyped event just flies in the face of the rules? I mean, it's ironic that the reason this event is taking off again is because the rules were changed, but then they don't even abide by these same rules! Amirite??

Yes and No. Katsanis built those lotuses, but more recently, Katsanis builds the bikes for British Cycling - all the top Brit trackstars ride them. Now. Hence the question about enforcement - they're definitely not commercially available (same as with German FES bikes), though they're UCI approved.

Cause, yeah - there are some rules that just aren't enforced.

http://keyassets.timeincuk.net/inspi...rack_bikes.jpg

Baby Puke 02-10-15 10:57 PM


Originally Posted by taras0000 (Post 17544432)
The only guy to use a legal bike was the only guy to miss his mark. In the spirit AND the letter of the rules, Bobridge is the current record holder.

Yeah, how about these guys at least ride track bikes?

taras0000 02-10-15 11:13 PM


Originally Posted by Baby Puke (Post 17544843)
Yeah, how about these guys at least ride track bikes?

I agree, but then you have sponsorship obligations. Still, there are plenty of converted road bikes out there, so it's easy enough to convert a TT frame, legally, inexpensively, and it can all be done with OFF THE SHELF PARTS! I also agree with the FES and UKSI bikes. If the rules are in place, then they should be enforced for all, not just Joe Blow who's competing at Nationals and doing only one UCI sanctioned event per year.

carleton 02-11-15 12:12 AM


Originally Posted by queerpunk (Post 17544707)
Yes and No. Katsanis built those lotuses, but more recently, Katsanis builds the bikes for British Cycling - all the top Brit trackstars ride them. Now. Hence the question about enforcement - they're definitely not commercially available (same as with German FES bikes), though they're UCI approved.

Cause, yeah - there are some rules that just aren't enforced.

http://keyassets.timeincuk.net/inspi...rack_bikes.jpg

Strictly speaking, they are commercially available:

Track Cycling | UK Sport



Until 2007, equipment was only available to the British Team, now, to bring it in line with new UCI regulations all of the current GB teams equipment is commercially available via UK Sport.

International Compliance

All frames comply with the latest UCI regulations and carry the required certification stickers. All safety equipment, such as helmets, have passed the stringent EC safety testing required by the UCI.

Availability

The equipment outlined in this document is manufactured in the UK to order by hand consequently lead time from order to delivery can sometimes be long.

Prices

Items such as the frame and helmets were developed using cutting edge techniques, this R&D was funded by UKS and British Cycling. Although most of this expenditure has been absorbed by the GB Team, the very low volumes of equipment produced, the the construction methods outlined above plus the use of the very best materials means the price of these items is in line with their specialist nature.

Ordering

Prices and lead times will vary significantly depending on volumes required, so all enquires should be directed to UK Sport, the provider of all GB cycling’s equipment at commercial@uksport.gov.uk who will be happy to discuss your requirements and provide quotations.
Email for prices :D

queerpunk 02-11-15 08:36 AM

yeah. i'm willing to bet that no customer has actually been able to pay for or recieve a product, though.

carleton 02-12-15 06:47 PM

I was reminded of this video via a forum that shall not be named.

It's good to watch when you need inspiration:


Murakami 02-14-15 01:21 AM

I like that he still uses one of these: http://www.mytenspeeds.com/My_TenSpe...e_Saddle_4.jpg

Dalai 02-17-15 05:07 AM

Le Equipe - Fast and Furious (French no subtitles)

L'Équipe Explore - Fast and Furious

carleton 02-20-15 06:34 PM

I had a long conversation with a friend of mine who in her mid-30s is getting into middle-distance racing on foot. She had some ups and downs recently because she was basing her progress on her local race results. She's been getting progressively faster but finished last in some races. This image that I just found kinda sums up the point that I was trying to get across to her:

http://i.imgur.com/0oi9Mhp.jpg

Soil_Sampler 02-20-15 06:59 PM

Hour
 

Originally Posted by gtrob (Post 17544431)
While I doubt there is much in the way to aerodynamic drag in it, there are much more aerodynamic cranks.

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8154/...775a99_z_d.jpg


Originally Posted by taras0000 (Post 17544571)
That can be rectified with a longer BB spindle

Not on those cranks.

carleton 02-20-15 08:35 PM


Originally Posted by Soil_Sampler (Post 17571822)

Those cranks are made for people who think anything over 1,000W is impossible :D (seriously)

noglider 02-23-15 12:24 PM


Originally Posted by carleton (Post 17571773)
I had a long conversation with a friend of mine who in her mid-30s is getting into middle-distance racing on foot. She had some ups and downs recently because she was basing her progress on her local race results. She's been getting progressively faster but finished last in some races. This image that I just found kinda sums up the point that I was trying to get across to her:

You're a good guy, @carleton.

Velocirapture 02-24-15 04:04 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Interesting to see that it looks like Hoy is running a) Shimano's and b) cleats with float.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=436022

taras0000 02-24-15 08:12 PM

He's most likely getting ready for a photo-op. Not racing, even casually. No strap on the pedal, and those shoes are too clean. Boa retention too. Wouldn't trust that for any sprint efforts.


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