Bang for Buck Hill Training
 

I have a “big” cycling event at end of April called Five Dams (West Australia). It’s around 210km and has 2000m of elevation. That’s made up of a number of tough, long climbs.

The vast majority of my cycling is almost pancake flat (my commute) and I don’t have much time for rides outside of the commute.

What I do have is a headwind, which about faces at midday so I get it in and out. It is nearly always significant. So I end up doing around 120-150km per week into a headwind and hoped this would form a good base.

This was probably naive! I did some time in the hills recently and the climbs were much harder than the headwind. I actually compare quite favourably to other cyclists into the wind, but poorly on hills (I believe this is mostly due to my weight).

So, in addition to losing weight and finding the time to go on at least one longer/hillier ride per week, I wondered:

1) I have access to a gym at work and can go there at lunchtimes. What should I be doing? More on a stationary bike with high resistance or just do “leg day” after “leg day”? Best to use weights/machine exercise or floor stuff.

2) I can do one big hill per commute, reducing time spent on the river (headwind) as a compromise. How should I tackle this hill? All out effort, out of the saddle style or just as I’d take hills normally. Ie. steady in the saddle? I very rarely get out of the saddle.

Any other advice also appreciated!

Definitely think substituting hill time for into wind time is a good idea.

I can only speak for me, but I find alternating standing and being on the seat on long hills a good way to avoid fatigue. Maybe try the hill one way on day one and the other on day 2.
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I find elliptical machines are a better simulation of riding out of the saddle than a stationary bike and, if you're trying to lose weight, burn a lot more calories due to the full-body nature of the work-out.
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The only advice I can give you is that, if you want to become a good strong climber you absolutely need to get out there and ride real hills over and over again. Gym workout won't do it, indoor training won't do it, riding into the wind won't do it, you need to ride the actual hills.

Stupid either/or advice which demonstrates that you didn't actually read the OP very well. Obviously, more real hill climbing will hope, but why not both?

Given this poster's time budget, riding hills over and over doesn't sound like an option. OP was talking about how to use the lunch break gym time, so are you really claiming that OP can't focus the gym time to improve climbing? That's just dumb. No one suggested doing that without trying to make the riding a bit hillier, but telling OP to forget about the one hour per working day gym time is ridiculous.

Have access to a stadium or tall building?
Run/Hike up stairs. Lots of stairs.
Add a 30 lbs backpack.
Rinse-Repeat.
This solves the time crunch issue.
https://www.bicycling.com/training/a...pe-of-cyclist/

I'm not a fan of machines. My experience is nothing replicates actually bearing all the weight and planting and lifting off a surface.
If you are prone to injuries, disregard my advice.

https://www.strava.com/routes/302487...2Fg35NwAAAA%3D

It would be great if you could ride the actual hill you're going to ride in the event.

You just have to absolutely dominate and establish yourself an official spokesperson for every thread in General Forum don't you ? :rolleyes:

Including some actual hill training would be useful, but is not essential. Any training that builds aerobic capacity will help for your event. You can incorporate interval training into your commute rides — work up to longer intervals over a period of a few weeks. By “longer” I mean 10 mins or even 20 mins.

Can you access a smart trainer? I find hill work on a smart trainer with Zwift (or similar) to be the best option for me (another flatlander training for a big ride).

Squats, Bulgarian squats, one legged squats, reverse lunges, all work those muscles. Did I mention squats? If I had access to a leg press machine, I'd do those too.

Hammer the hill ride you have. Do repeats on that hill.

On the flats try low cadence, high power, intervals...Get in the big gear and mash for 60 seconds, spin easy for 3 minutes, repeat this 4 times. Adjust the time and repeats to your legs.

Like you, I travel for hill rides. About 45 minutes one-way so not a regular thing.

I think that's basically true, but I think there's a.psychological benefit from doing some of this training on hills--if you know from experience you have got this, the site.of a slope is a lot less intimidating. I also think that pacing yourself on a hill gets easier with practice and is somewhat different than doing so on flatlandia.

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https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...10a6f108f.jpeg

My advice is spot on...Hill climbing is a little more than just about strength, power and aerobic capacity. There is a certain technique and form involved which can only be practiced on the actual hills.

You're basically agreeing with me and yet you continue to be dissing my advice. It just has to come out of your own mouth or it isn't true.

Great, but the option you offered totally ignored OP's situation, and are you really claiming that building strength, power and aerobic capacity aren't important?

Your advice sucked because it devalued a bunch of stuff that OP can actually do for a strategy that really isn't available to OP. OP already outlined the increase in hill riding being contemplated here, the real question was about the complements to that.

I'm so done with this.

Although actually climbing hills is the best way to train for riding hills there are other ways.
Can you train indoors on Zwift?
If so, do some of their climbing routes, but elevate the front wheel of your bike, this will allow you to activate your climbing muscles more than when your bike is level.
If you don't have Zwift, do the same but with some challenging resistance, either on a smart trainer or a traditional trainer.

Not one time did I ever say that anywhere.

wolfchild You are well known around here for less than helpful advice. Yes hill climbing to practice hill climbing is great except when you don't have hills and are trying to train regularly and get into better shape to ride them. In some cases very rigid unbending thinking can be fine but sometimes you have to be a bit flexible. Not everyone is going to be exactly like you so sometimes we have to try and meet people where they are at.

Obviously if it is a thread that isn't realistic then you have to be honest and that will lead to more rigid thinking as you espouse but here it is realistic to get into better shape for hill climbing. Sure there is some technique and form for climbing hills but without hills at least getting into better shape and building certain key parts into your workouts can help as much as they can. Maybe imagine yourself as someone who lives in a flat area and hills are hard to find and get to, how would you decide to practice for an event that is far away while still say working and doing your normal life?

I’m wondering about the opposite; How do I train for long endurance rides when I live in the mountains and only have long climbs in every direction?

I think you have the key right there.

Are you riding with group of friends, or alone? Pull the skinny guys on the flats and they'll return the favor by waiting at the top of the climbs. Get in as good a shape as you can and have a good time. Unless you are shooting for first place, you should enjoy your tour. And don't go too hard the first few climbs, "save your matches," as they say. And keep eating.

Your advice is off the mark. Climbing is all about strength and power-to-weight ratio. Riding strong requires virtually no "technique".

To the OP, the biggest mistake I see non-climbers do on hills is to attack them with more power than they can sustain. If there's any "technique" to climbing (more accurately called a strategy), it is to settle into a sustainable pace on the hills. If you have a power meter, that's the best guide for managing effort, but a heart rate monitor will do.

Climbing does call for higher muscle forces, particularly in the quads, glutes, and lower back. If those muscles aren't adapted to the additional force required, they can fatigue quickly. So your gym time should incorporate exercises that target glutes, quads, and lower back. My leg/back day works all of those muscle groups, plus hamstrings and calves. My go-to quads/glutes exercise is the chair plié:


https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...23b212f2c8.gif

This exercise will leave you shaking like an unbalanced washing machine.

Riding out of the saddle is an important part of a climber's toolbox, too. On the bike, I'll do standing drills in a big gear, targeting a 50-60 cadence. These will work the quads. 30 seconds standing, 15 seconds seated spinning.

Here goes another thread...........................


https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...71d309d697.jpg

Cramic, hopefully, has seen the internet once or twice. 😉

The ballet style squats are interesting, I'm adding them to my sets. A quick try says they hit differently than the standard, surely related to standing on toe tip and the bar hold.

They're definitely harder than the "standard" squats. You can do them with a flat foot, which is easier. It's the small pulses that are killer--the muscles never get a break. If you don't have a bar to pull back on, you can open a door and hold each doorknob. Focus on keeping your back straight.

(Speaking of which, it's leg day--heading off to tell these legs of mine who is boss [Ed: The legs are the boss of Terry.])

This works for me. I've found this to be the best way to train for long alpine climbs (if you don't have such climbs available locally). A good smart trainer can simulate hills perfectly well.

I agree with this, but feel that the muscular training/gym work is most useful if you will be climbing some very steep grades. I did substantial gym work (of the sort Terry Morse is describing) for some races that involved some relatively short but extremely steep (up to 37%) grades that required some brute force. But even for shallower but longer climbs (such as the OP described), those exercises certainly won't hurt, and may help stave off fatigue or (worst-case scenario) cramps.

By the way, Cramic : the posters who are pissing on one another haven't offered any reason to believe that they know anything about this. I'll just offer that, for some years, I was in your situation: living on the flatlands, and occasionally traveling to Colorado to do some of the biggest climbing events in the country. Like this and this. The advice that I gave in an earlier post, copied below, worked for me. Sure, training on hills is better, but not essential. Even when I later lived (and raced) in a hillier area, I only rode big hill workouts 1x per week, at the most. As for the "psychological" benefit of training on actual hills...Again, not really important. And again, my advice comes from actual experience.