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-   -   Kool Stop Rim Brake Pads thumbs up (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=1209481)

Symox 08-05-20 06:50 PM

Kool Stop Rim Brake Pads thumbs up
 
Just installed the Kool Stop blacks to replace the pads in my 105 rim brakes. Better modulation and stopping power. I'm impressed. They aren't as thick as I expected but have a profile that allows for better modulation (back side contacts first). This likely will wear over time though. Not sure about longevity obviously

Greatestalltime 08-06-20 04:36 AM

Yeah, after 8 years back into cycling, and only using Shimano pads, I switched to some Swissstop BXB and they are much much better in dry and wet.

Wonder why I waited so long.

Sy Reene 08-06-20 06:41 AM

Why doesn't someone like GCN do tests along these lines.. actual product/brand side-by-sides? SStop vs KoolStop vs Shimano etc.

indyfabz 08-06-20 06:46 AM

I use their Kool Stop Mountain Salmon pads on my touring bike's canti brakes. Love them.

Germany_chris 08-06-20 08:23 AM

Kool Stop salmons on my DD, they work far better than the pads SRAM put in originally

Unca_Sam 08-06-20 09:13 AM


Originally Posted by Sy Reene (Post 21626240)
Why doesn't someone like GCN do tests along these lines.. actual product/brand side-by-sides? SStop vs KoolStop vs Shimano etc.

Though I don't consider GCN to be the pinnacle of third party testing, it might be that testing multiple pads can be too time consuming on a complex system like a bike.

The simplest test I can think of would be to test off of a bike, say on a fork. You'd want to use the same wheel to control for differences in bearing drag and braking surface finish. You'd want to accelerate the wheel to the same rpm, so maybe have a cycling computer or other way to measure that. Then you'd want to use a precise and repeatable cable pull, maybe a weight on the cable, used for all tests.

Then test, test, test... average the times, and see which pad brings the wheel to a complete stop soonest, on average? Even installation differences can materially affect testing performance. Then, what does the test tell you?

I don't think anyone besides pad manufacturers are interested in rubber compound characteristics like Shore hardness, which affects wear life, durability, and rim wear. They all work well when installed properly, with the downside being that the majority of Shimano's pads are likely engineered for adequacy as OEM equipment, rather than performance.

Sy Reene 08-06-20 10:17 AM


Originally Posted by Unca_Sam (Post 21626472)
Though I don't consider GCN to be the pinnacle of third party testing, it might be that testing multiple pads can be too time consuming on a complex system like a bike.

The simplest test I can think of would be to test off of a bike, say on a fork. You'd want to use the same wheel to control for differences in bearing drag and braking surface finish. You'd want to accelerate the wheel to the same rpm, so maybe have a cycling computer or other way to measure that. Then you'd want to use a precise and repeatable cable pull, maybe a weight on the cable, used for all tests.

Then test, test, test... average the times, and see which pad brings the wheel to a complete stop soonest, on average? Even installation differences can materially affect testing performance. Then, what does the test tell you?

I don't think anyone besides pad manufacturers are interested in rubber compound characteristics like Shore hardness, which affects wear life, durability, and rim wear. They all work well when installed properly, with the downside being that the majority of Shimano's pads are likely engineered for adequacy as OEM equipment, rather than performance.

Of course it would be assumed that such a test would be what we're familiar with when GCN "does science".. eg.


Jack Tone 08-06-20 11:01 AM


Originally Posted by Symox (Post 21625820)
Just installed the Kool Stop blacks to replace the pads in my 105 rim brakes. Better modulation and stopping power. I'm impressed. They aren't as thick as I expected but have a profile that allows for better modulation (back side contacts first). This likely will wear over time though. Not sure about longevity obviously

If anything, shouldn't the front side contact first? I set mine up so they contact evenly since they will anyway after several miles of use, and newer, more rigid calipers don't flex.

Unca_Sam 08-06-20 11:40 AM


Originally Posted by Jack Tone (Post 21626687)
If anything, shouldn't the front side contact first? I set mine up so they contact evenly since they will anyway after several miles of use, and newer, more rigid calipers don't flex.

Yes, toe-in is great for braking modulation and reducing squeal. Kool Stop mountain type pads have patented(?) angled tips that face the back of the bike, supposedly to clear debris and water from the braking surface and make braking more predictable. These tips are also proud of the rest of the pad, again, supposedly to help set toe-in when installing them. Properly installed, the angled tip makes contact at the back around the same time as the front edge of the pads.

Carbonfiberboy 08-06-20 12:03 PM

Swisstop BXP are even better.

Clipped_in 08-06-20 03:32 PM

OP, I'm a big fan of the Kool Stop dual compound Dura 2's for alloy rims.

79pmooney 08-06-20 04:38 PM


Originally Posted by Sy Reene (Post 21626240)
Why doesn't someone like GCN do tests along these lines.. actual product/brand side-by-sides? SStop vs KoolStop vs Shimano etc.

Or,you can just listen to posters who say that KoolStops are very good pads. Over and over again. Who knows. They might be on to something.

Sy Reene 08-06-20 04:50 PM


Originally Posted by 79pmooney (Post 21627167)
Or,you can just listen to posters who say that KoolStops are very good pads. Over and over again. Who knows. They might be on to something.

I've been eating a few almonds every day now for the last few months and I haven't gotten Covid. ;)

fietsbob 08-06-20 04:52 PM

Isn't GCN British , not stateside based, and so their views are defined by their location?

Sy Reene 08-06-20 04:54 PM


Originally Posted by fietsbob (Post 21627191)
Isn't GCN British , not stateside based, and so their views are defined by their location?

Definitely. Braking in wet weather is much more heavily focused upon.

noisebeam 08-07-20 12:21 PM

Note that kool stop salmon stop working when it is over ~108F.
The black compound ones don't have that problem.

Unca_Sam 08-07-20 12:33 PM


Originally Posted by noisebeam (Post 21628493)
Note that kool stop salmon stop working when it is over ~108F.
The black compound ones don't have that problem.

While I don't typically ride in the vicinity of the Devil's *******, I'm curious about why and how the salmon pads stop working at such unholy temperatures.

Sy Reene 08-07-20 12:36 PM


Originally Posted by Unca_Sam (Post 21628521)
While I don't typically ride in the vicinity of the Devil's *******, I'm curious about why and how the salmon pads stop working at such unholy temperatures.

Yeah, 108 doesn't sound that high really, especially if in sun, with blacktop, and heat generated from braking itself.

noisebeam 08-07-20 01:03 PM


Originally Posted by Sy Reene (Post 21628524)
Yeah, 108 doesn't sound that high really, especially if in sun, with blacktop, and heat generated from braking itself.

This is 108F+ ambient in the shade. Add in full direct sun and radiant heat from 160F blacktop, plus braking heat. They get real squishy and slick, worse than a regular pad in rain. This is all my experience over multiple trials, not verified by others or kool-stop.

Unca_Sam 08-07-20 02:19 PM


Originally Posted by noisebeam (Post 21628574)
This is 108F+ ambient in the shade. Add in full direct sun and radiant heat from 160F blacktop, plus braking heat. They get real squishy and slick, worse than a regular pad in rain. This is all my experience over multiple trials, not verified by others or kool-stop.

Wait, how do you know about braking in the rain? :D

This seems like something Kool Stop would want to know about. Frankly, they're probably the only ones who can answer as well.

noisebeam 08-07-20 02:26 PM


Originally Posted by Unca_Sam (Post 21628712)
Wait, how do you know about braking in the rain? :D

This seems like something Kool Stop would want to know about. Frankly, they're probably the only ones who can answer as well.

It rains in the winter (cold showers) and fall (hot monsoon thunderstorms) and I have had many rainy rides including a couple of centuries- one of the reasons I tried salmon kool stops. Many years ago I contacted Kool Stop about it and they hadn't heard of it. I've duplicated the result multiple times across three different bikes and pads including cleaning rims and resurfacing pads.

Symox 08-07-20 09:53 PM

Did some more riding, even more impressed. Seem to be less messy than the Shimano pads. Less muck on the rims after a ride.

Very happy with my purchase

Seattle Forrest 08-07-20 11:15 PM

Whatever. I removed my brake pads, it saved me 30 grams.

Robert A 08-07-20 11:57 PM


Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy (Post 21626773)
Swisstop BXP are even better.

I inserted Swissstop BXPs in my Ultegra R8000 brakes and found the improvement to be fleeting. At first, they reallly grabbed. But after a few hundred milestThere was no discernible improvement and I eventually went back to Shimano. And along the way, I replaced all brake housing and cables, checked pad toe, sanded both the pads and the rims, and even took it to my LBS.

Sorry, I saw no improvement with Swissstop.

Jazzguitar 08-08-20 06:59 AM

I love my Kool Stop Salmon pads and leave them on my bike full time. Modulation and stopping power is great and they don't seem to collect grit and metal shards like the stock Shimano pads so hopefully rim life is extended. I'm not riding in 108º weather with any pads so I'm not concerned about their supposed, broiler level, heat performance.


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