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-   -   Totally Tubular (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=154679)

wildjim 01-06-06 06:39 AM


Originally Posted by Bob S.
When I am on the road, I don't want to be wasting 20 min. waiting for glue to tack. It is too easy not to pre-streach & pre-inflate. I think I can still pretty quick @ changing a tubular. Personally, I would rather tinker with my toys in the garage while drinking a beer & relaxing, vic on the road.

I doubt that it is the hand size/strength thing you mentioned either. While my upper body strength isn't what it was in my prime, it ain't bad either.

Different strokes for different folk. Just my $02. Bob

The spare tubular tire should be glued prior to storage under the seat or wherever as it will be ready when needed.

The typical recommended tubular tire glue; such as Vittoria Mastik does not dry hard as it is a contact cement designed to adhere to the glue already applied on the rim then form a bond under compression as the tubular tire is inflated on the rim. This is why I believe that stretching the tubular tire too much may deform or damage it and reduce the amount of compression the tire may otherwise have had. Barnett's method suggests that the tire may be stretched as inflated on a wheel for 24 hours prior to mounting to ease the mounting procedure but not as a tubular tire storage method.

As designed tubular tire should not be inflated without the support of a wheel as compression without proper support will damage the base tape and or rip the stitching.

Practically the tubular tire is designed ready to mount and use as the glue is properly applied to both surfaces of the rim and the tubular tire base tape. The instructions are printed on the tube of tubular tire glue.

king koeller 01-09-06 05:55 AM

Yes! Mike Oldfield's Tubular Bells!!
Fantastic! One of my desert island albums,for sure!
Tubulars ride so much nicer than clinchers. I just hate the glue and mess, but it's really worth it.

lotek 01-09-06 07:59 AM

uh folks, can I remind y'all that the purpose of this thread is
to post tips for using tubulars, tricks for mounting etc.
Its express purpose isn't to debate the merit of tubulars vs clinchers,
different mounting stratagies etc.

thanks,
Marty

unworthy1 01-11-06 02:32 PM

Wahhh, my piggy bank is empty! I ditto the request for a tip on some INEXPENSIVE 'cross tubulars, if they exist. I scored a used wheelset and that plus this forum has got me interested enough to MAYBE repeal my 25-year personal ban on sew-ups and try them again on my 'cross bike...just to see. I had a bad crash years back due to the tire rolling off the rim during a crazy down-hill descent (trip to the ER), and NEVER developed the finesse to mount one without glue going on EVERYTHING...just hated it. But the idea of Tufo tape and crashing in some nice soft mud has got me re-thinking...The wheels have Clement knobbies on now, but one tire is burnt toast...is there anything out there for less than $69?? (PS, Thanks for this great thread!)

Chongo 01-11-06 09:43 PM


Originally Posted by unworthy1
Wahhh, my piggy bank is empty! I ditto the request for a tip on some INEXPENSIVE 'cross tubulars, if they exist. I scored a used wheelset and that plus this forum has got me interested enough to MAYBE repeal my 25-year personal ban on sew-ups and try them again on my 'cross bike...just to see. I had a bad crash years back due to the tire rolling off the rim during a crazy down-hill descent (trip to the ER), and NEVER developed the finesse to mount one without glue going on EVERYTHING...just hated it. But the idea of Tufo tape and crashing in some nice soft mud has got me re-thinking...The wheels have Clement knobbies on now, but one tire is burnt toast...is there anything out there for less than $69?? (PS, Thanks for this great thread!)

Westernbikeworks.com has lots of cross tubies for under $69. I recommend the Tufos.

unworthy1 01-12-06 02:44 PM

Great tip, thanks for that!

Everest 01-17-06 07:32 PM

I'm building a bike with a set of tubular rims that came on it and have some questions. It came with 2 Vittoria Nuovo Pros and a Wolber. The rear Vittoria dosent hold air and apparently was ot glued to the rim. Is there a way to fix it? I tried to put the wolber on thhis rim but it just wouldnt fit any tips? Also the front holds air but after the rear wasnt glued on I checked and made sure this one is glued on but the glue is kind of tacky and not real secure. I imagine I will have to reglue this one as well. Is there anything wrong with reuseing these tires there not in the best shape but seem allright? Thanks for any and all help you can offer.

USAZorro 01-17-06 08:53 PM

Tubulars can be patched, but it is a bit more of a hassle, as you would need to find the leak, and apply the patch, preferably with minimal snipping and re-sewing.

Not sure what you mean by "wouldn't fit any tips?" You can re-use tires, but you're not going to get a normal full life out of them (same as anything else that's been used). As long as it is holding air, and staying on the rim securely, you should be fine.

Bob S. 01-17-06 09:04 PM

+1 on Zorro's comments. I, as the rider/end user, have succesfully patched & restitched many a tubular & gotten many more miles out of the tire befroe eventually disposing of it. As Zorro says, the trick is to try to locate the leak as well as you can before cutting the tire open, do a neat patch, restitch, & reapplication of the tape & tire. I suspect that this is much like mounting & streaching methods, different folk have different methods.

Everest 01-17-06 09:33 PM

Are there any detailed directions for this patching process anywhere online? The Wolber just didnt want to go on te rim no matter how much I tried about 15 inches didnt want to stay on.

luker 01-17-06 09:39 PM

A trick - when you get to that last fifteen inches, fasten one side to the wheel with an old toestrap. Pull it up tight...like having three hands! Now you can stretch, curse, sweat and struggle with both hands, instead of one only.

peripatetic 01-17-06 11:04 PM


Originally Posted by Everest
Are there any detailed directions for this patching process anywhere online? The Wolber just didnt want to go on te rim no matter how much I tried about 15 inches didnt want to stay on.

Mr. Brown has graciously archived the snide Mr. Brandt's technique. Personally, I usually try and find some method other than Brandt's, because I don't really like supporting poor, derisive and insulting writing. But perhaps I editorialize too much.
:o

here: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/tubular-repair.html

Everest 01-18-06 12:44 PM

Well I got the wolber on using your trick Luker except with tightly wraped ellectrical tape instead of a strap, I'm hoping it holds air. As for the other tire with the leak it is a Vittoria Competition Nuovo Pro does anyone no what kind of tube this has according to the above link there are two kinds latex and butyl. If it is latex does anyone have an old latex tube they could cut a few patches from for me? Also will a regular sewing needle be allright or do I absolutely need the rare triangular needle suggested in the article? If the old thread is unusable what kind would reccomend resewing the tire with? Anyone have any tips for finding leaks? With clincher tube I submerge them in water and look for bubbles will this work with a tubular? Should I scrape the old dried glue off the rim or leave it? When I deflate and pull up on the front tire the glue begins to sepereate should I reglue this tire? When I glue the tires do I apply glue to the entire surface of the base tape and rim or just the edges? Any other tips of the trade you can offer a total novice would be greatly appreciated thanks.

mollusk 01-21-06 06:04 AM


Originally Posted by Everest
Well I got the wolber on using your trick Luker except with tightly wraped ellectrical tape instead of a strap, I'm hoping it holds air. As for the other tire with the leak it is a Vittoria Competition Nuovo Pro does anyone no what kind of tube this has according to the above link there are two kinds latex and butyl. If it is latex does anyone have an old latex tube they could cut a few patches from for me? Also will a regular sewing needle be allright or do I absolutely need the rare triangular needle suggested in the article? If the old thread is unusable what kind would reccomend resewing the tire with? Anyone have any tips for finding leaks? With clincher tube I submerge them in water and look for bubbles will this work with a tubular? Should I scrape the old dried glue off the rim or leave it? When I deflate and pull up on the front tire the glue begins to sepereate should I reglue this tire? When I glue the tires do I apply glue to the entire surface of the base tape and rim or just the edges? Any other tips of the trade you can offer a total novice would be greatly appreciated thanks.

I use a heavy sewing needle and dental floss. Waxed dental floss works great.

Submersion to find the leak will normally get you to the vicinity of the leak.

Get the old glue off the rim. "Goof Off" works well for me.

Reglue that tire! If you can pull it off that way you will roll it off when cornering.

Glue the entire surface.

Bob S. 01-21-06 08:27 AM

Thanks for the dental floss tip. I still have some needles that I picked-up back in the 70's that came with a sew-up repair kit. Over the years I have added and used relitively light weight "sail repair" needles and thread to the kit & tool box. Bob

Everest 01-21-06 10:49 AM

Thanks for all the help now if I can just find some latex patches, can anyone cut me some from a dead tubular or know where to find some? Also is Vittoria good glue to use?

luker 01-21-06 12:31 PM

vittoria tubasti is what you use to join tire to rim. As I recall, that glue is red, and that's my only complaint. Wolber and Panasonic (and some others) make a tire glue that is clear, and that is my personal preference, because I always seem to get a little on things that really don't need any glue.

Use tire patch glue to put patch to tube (like what comes in the little metal tubes in the little patch kits. You know, the stuff that is always dried up when you have a flat and you are 14 miles from town with no cell phone.)

toomanybikes 01-21-06 12:59 PM


Originally Posted by jim-bob
Yeah, I've seen a bunch of 'em on ebay and the like, but was hoping to get feedback from people who've used them.

(And yeah, fixed is a definite consideration for this one.)

I use the Clement Elitas on my cyclocross bike. Actually a surprisingly nice tire once you get past the blue tread!

toomanybikes 01-21-06 01:00 PM


Originally Posted by luker
vittoria tubasti is what you use to join tire to rim. As I recall, that glue is red, and that's my only complaint. Wolber and Panasonic (and some others) make a tire glue that is clear, and that is my personal preference, because I always seem to get a little on things that really don't need any glue.

Use tire patch glue to put patch to tube (like what comes in the little metal tubes in the little patch kits. You know, the stuff that is always dried up when you have a flat and you are 14 miles from town with no cell phone.)

Luker, Tubasti is actually that HORRIBLE white stuff that never sets up hard and gets all over everything..

Much prefer Vittoria or Clement.

toomanybikes 01-21-06 01:09 PM


Originally Posted by luker
A trick - when you get to that last fifteen inches, fasten one side to the wheel with an old toestrap. Pull it up tight...like having three hands! Now you can stretch, curse, sweat and struggle with both hands, instead of one only.

Funny, I use those hand clamps that you get at Home Depot. The Spring loaded ones.

I was in my woodshop one day putting on a tire and looking for something to hold it. Grabbed a vice grip spring clamp off the workbench and Voila - worked like a hot damn.

luker 01-21-06 05:11 PM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by toomanybikes
Luker, Tubasti is actually that HORRIBLE white stuff that never sets up hard and gets all over everything..

Much prefer Vittoria or Clement.


you are right...in my feeble mind I was confusing mastice gutta with tubasti (plumbing today, sewer fumes must be destroying brain cells). As it turns out, I was not right about what mastice gutta means either. Nor even what language it is in. Attached is a picture of the kinds of glue that I currently have in the garage. The Tubasti in that tube is red, I'm pretty sure, but it is nasty stuff. All of the other ones seem to work fine. I have been using the hutchinson lately and it is pretty good...

luker 01-21-06 06:18 PM

Oh, hey. My original point was lost there, maybe. Don't use rim glue to mount patches. Different properties...

Everest 01-21-06 07:18 PM

Will tire patch glue even work on latex patches? The vittoria glue I'm asking about is this stuff any one have any expierences?

http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?c...eid=&pagename=

Everest 01-21-06 08:15 PM

Well the tire dosent appear to be leaking there is a stedy flow of bubbles from the valve however one about every 1-2 seconds. The valve is all the way tightened and the leak appears to be in the body of the valve (see graphic) any way to fix this? Also what do you glue down the base tape with its coming up a little in one area?

http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/9715/valve7ti.th.png

USAZorro 01-21-06 09:10 PM

I'd try opening the valve and dunking it in mineral spirits for about 10 minutes. Let it dry and try to inflate again. If it's just some gunk keeping it from sealing all the way, this might clean it out. If you need some latex tube for patching, I can send you some bits.

Everest 01-21-06 10:01 PM

Thanks for the tip I will pick up some mineral spirits monday. I sent you a pm about the patches.

lotek 01-22-06 05:32 PM

I've been using Conti glue with great success.
I did just pick up some Panaracer which is also clear and
has a tenacious hold (so I'm told).
Everest, see if you can find a velox tubular repair kit on ebuy
has everything you need, needle, thread glue patches etc.

Marty

mollusk 01-22-06 07:35 PM


Originally Posted by Everest
Well the tire dosent appear to be leaking there is a stedy flow of bubbles from the valve however one about every 1-2 seconds. The valve is all the way tightened and the leak appears to be in the body of the valve (see graphic) any way to fix this? Also what do you glue down the base tape with its coming up a little in one area?

http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/9715/valve7ti.th.png

I had exactly the same problem with exactly this brand of tubular this year. I fixed it by unscrewing the valve core, applying some blue Loctite, and screwing it back together.

Everest 01-22-06 08:08 PM


Originally Posted by mollusk
I had exactly the same problem with exactly this brand of tubular this year. I fixed it by unscrewing the valve core, applying some blue Loctite, and screwing it back together.

Can you go into more detail. Mainly whats the valve core I assume this is the smaller part with threads on it that attaches to the part coming from the tire at the point I highlighted. Did you just use a vice grips to unscrew it or what?

lotek 01-22-06 08:13 PM

Everest,

The valve core should have flats on it to allow you to screw it either in or out
of the main valve housing, the whole area that you have marked should screw out.

Marty


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