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-   -   Totally Tubular (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=154679)

JohnDThompson 05-26-20 07:35 AM


Originally Posted by jonwvara (Post 21496342)
Vermont roads--even paved ones, of which there are not many--tend to be rough. The narrowest clinchers I use are 28mm, so I'd like to start with some wide, relatively low-pressure tubulars. I can't see 22mm tires pumped up to 140 psi working out well for me. What's a good beginner option in a wide tire, preferably a butyl-tubed one?

One of the nice things about tubulars is that you can run them at low pressure without worrying about pinch-flats, so unless you're in competition, there's no compelling reason to use super-high pressure. They also tend to have the ride comfort of somewhat wider clinchers. I suspect a 25mm tubular would provide a similar ride to your current 28mm clinchers.


Will tires of that width fit well on an early 70s rim that was probably designed with 22-24mm tires in mind? I can't give an actual width, because I don't have the wheels in hand yet.
In my experience, tubular rims are quite tolerant of tire width variety.


Also, is anyone here riding on a set of Tufo HICC 28s? They seem to be reasonably priced--an important criteria for me--but I can't find much information about them.
I haven't used them myself, but most reviews of the Tufo tires suggest they are not the most lively-feeling tubulars.

machinist42 05-26-20 09:07 AM

Two Sides
 

Originally Posted by masi61 (Post 21484703)
No it is not tubular specific but it comes recommended in a YouTube by “Caden” an Australian wheel builder who swears by this (generic version) of 3M double sided tape. I’ll double check the width and marking on the tape. In the video he explains the advantages of being able to position your tubular tire properly before peeling back the wax paper then inflating the tire.

As as far as my wider than normal Velocity Major Tom rims, I’ll try different tires and hopefully find some that are road specific that don’t end up with a gap at the base tape. 27 to 30 mm would be ideal and hopefully clear whichever frame I ultimately run these on.

Hmmm,

Viewed the
I suspect you reference, and right at the beginning he says it is a "new" tape by 3M specifically designed for tubular tyres. His shop's store offers it for sale. The video was posted in 2017.

masi61 05-26-20 11:31 AM


Originally Posted by machinist42 (Post 21497804)
Hmmm,

Viewed the video I suspect you reference, and right at the beginning he says it is a "new" tape by 3M specifically designed for tubular tyres. His shop's store offers it for sale. The video was posted in 2017.

yes that is the video. I don’t know if he mentions the 3M # on the tape but I believe there is a generic substitute for the same tape that is like 4 or 5$ per roll.

no67el 05-27-20 10:39 AM

I ride Vermont gravel daily, and the Vlaandaren is my favorite tubular for that purpose....70-80 psi, I weigh 175. Light, surprisingly tough given how soft the sidewalls feel-- a great riding tire. Not cheap, but you can find them for $50-60 on sale, which isn't terrible.

I used to use Tufo tires when I first started with tubulars--- those things felt like bricks by comparison. I still have one untouched, sits in my spare bag, hope I never have to use it....

I've been pretty lucky with "soft" sidewalls--- I guess the ad guys would call them "supple". Only one major sidewall cut in the last 5 years, on a 3 day old pair of Soma Supple Vitesse clinchers. I repaired the sidewall with dental floss, rubber cement, and a piece of an old tire as a boot--- still holding!

N

squirtdad 05-27-20 12:56 PM


Originally Posted by masi61 (Post 21498072)
yes that is the video. I don’t know if he mentions the 3M # on the tape but I believe there is a generic substitute for the same tape that is like 4 or 5$ per roll.

gluing tubular tires to rims is not a place I would prefer to cheap out on. ymmv

semroc 05-28-20 03:29 PM

Splurged and purchased an Rene Herse service course 25mm. I have about 250 miles on it. Ridden on streets, dirt, gravel. Running just on the front wheel. It's pretty dang nice at about 80 psi. Recommended. Waiting for the roubaix to get back in stock to put on the rear.
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...72adb68cc5.jpg

jonwvara 05-29-20 06:11 AM

Jantex tape release strip?
 
For my first venture into tubulars, I've pretty much decided to go with Jantex tape, rather than glue. (I was interested to find that it's been around for longer than I'd thought; Eugene Sloane recommended it by name in the 1970 Complete Book of Bicycling.)

I've read several reviews where users have complained about the tendency of the paper release strip to tear when pulled loose from under the newly-positioned tire. That sounds really annoying. But I also found one mention that the old paper release strips have recently been replaced by a tougher and more reliable plastic strip. Is this the case? I'd be interested to hear from anyone who's had some recent experience with this product.

Revracer 05-29-20 08:22 AM

+1 on the Vlaandaren. I have run them on Mavic GP4 rims, Campy hubs and the supple is real. I also run Stan's in them as I have had good experience with Stan's sealing on a latex tube.

I am now to the point that I run latex + Stan's in my clincher setups particularly with VO/Rene Herse lightweight tires to get that same supple feel that is great on chip seal roads.

squirtdad 05-29-20 10:55 AM

any one have any experience with vittoria corsa control? theoretically the replacement sorta for the beloved Pave?

I am about to pull the trigger on a second wheel set for the 85 team miyata...the current clincher conti gp 5000 in 28 are pretty good, but still want to go tubular for a number of reasons

squirtdad 05-31-20 11:31 AM

and one more any love/hate for conti sprinter gatorskin?

L134 05-31-20 12:24 PM


Originally Posted by squirtdad (Post 21504163)
any one have any experience with vittoria corsa control? theoretically the replacement sorta for the beloved Pave?

I am about to pull the trigger on a second wheel set for the 85 team miyata...the current clincher conti gp 5000 in 28 are pretty good, but still want to go tubular for a number of reasons

Refer back to post #1517 and a few after? Is that the tire you are asking about?

Classtime 05-31-20 01:38 PM


Originally Posted by squirtdad (Post 21507501)
and one more any love/hate for conti sprinter gatorskin?

I have had great experiences with the Gatorskin. They were my first Tubulars (size 22s) 9 years ago because they had a reputation of being the most durable and I didn't want to be repairing my first pair of tubulars if it was avoidable. I didn't know any better and they rode fine. Then I got a pair of Gatorskin 25s to do the BWR which is a mixed terrain event and I was very pleased with their durability. If your objective is to experience the smooth ride that fine tubulars are known for, the Gatorskin is not your tire. Continental Competitions were smoother (but a ***** to mount) and my nice tires now are the Vittoria Corsas. I plan to do the BWR again next year and I will get a new pair of Gatorskins unless someone can convince me that the Corsa Control as sidewall protection that comes close to the Gatorskin's.

semroc 05-31-20 03:15 PM


Originally Posted by squirtdad (Post 21504163)
any one have any experience with vittoria corsa control? theoretically the replacement sorta for the beloved Pave?

I am about to pull the trigger on a second wheel set for the 85 team miyata...the current clincher conti gp 5000 in 28 are pretty good, but still want to go tubular for a number of reasons

I don't know about corsa control. But I've put a ton of hard miles on my corsa elite. On dirt, gravel, wet pavement, and it's an awesome tire. Latex tube. I seek out pave sectors.

Wildwood 05-31-20 04:39 PM


Originally Posted by jonwvara (Post 21503668)
I've read several reviews where users have complained about the tendency of the paper release strip to tear when pulled loose from under the newly-positioned tire. That sounds really annoying. But I also found one mention that the old paper release strips have recently been replaced by a tougher and more reliable plastic strip. Is this the case? I'd be interested to hear from anyone who's had some recent experience with this product.

I used Jantex tape on 25mm and 22mm tires, probably 2 years ago. I was a bit gentle pulling out the adhesive's cover strip, but no problems. And I would agree that the ability to mount the tire on the rim and inflate/deflate the tire several times before pulling the strip is good.

I found a large can of mastik (unopened), so I may be gluing for a while. Rhetorically: how does a guy misplace a good sized can for 2 years?

bikerosity57 05-31-20 05:46 PM

They ride absolutely fantastically. But, they’re ridiculously expensive, are nearly impossible to actually REPAIR. The Tufo tape makes them easier to mount, but if you use tubular glue they’re a total pain in the ass. But, boy they sure ride fantastically.

smontanaro 05-31-20 05:58 PM


Originally Posted by bikerosity57 (Post 21508100)
They ride absolutely fantastically.

Sorry, "they" being what? I found the Veloflex Vlaanderen tubulars on my Griffon to ride fantastically today. :)

I made this plea in another long-running thread, but I'll make it here as well. If you're responding to an earlier post in the thread, it really helps if you quote some part (even an itsy bitsy teeny weeny part) of that message. We are discussing many different brands and models of tubulars (and occasionally clinchers when someone goofs), so knowing what specifically you're writing about is helpful.

squirtdad 05-31-20 10:14 PM


Originally Posted by L134 (Post 21507589)
Refer back to post #1517 and a few after? Is that the tire you are asking about?

not exactly there is the corsa g and the corsa control g the control g is supposed to have a little more tread and some other features for rougher roads. I had corsa g clinchers (actually still in garage) and there were a great ride, but i had huge flat issues...switched to conti GP5000 clinchers and not flat problems, and rides is almost the same, but they are not offerieng gp5000 tubular thanks

squirtdad 06-01-20 10:14 AM

I was about to measure my current tires to check for clearance options for replacements and realized I had no idea of what the 'standard' is for measuring tires. How do you measure a tired.... caliper for width or height or??? thanks

smontanaro 06-01-20 12:18 PM

squirtdad I doubt there's any standard. I inflate to riding pressure then use calipers to measure the actual width. Then I measure the gaps (chain stay, brake bridge and chain stay bridge in back and fork crown and blades in front). That leaves me with a simple calculation with the smallest gap and tire width to determine the max tire width. I generally subtract 1-2mm from the result as a fudge factor.

jimmuller 06-03-20 05:02 AM

My tubular tires and my clincher tires too are sitting unused, all except for those on the Bianchi which goes on the trainer now.

xiaoman1 06-05-20 06:19 PM

I was so excited to find some 650c tires I pulled the trigger before realizing that these were tubulars....and not having a T wheel makes it even worse....yeah I know I am a
knucklehead :D so I guess I will send them back unless I can find a 650c front wheel.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...bb2e85c9a1.png
Does anyone have a built front that they want to part with(tubular or clincher)? I am trying to find one to finish a Bertoni Crono. :D
Best, Ben

smontanaro 06-06-20 05:49 PM


Originally Posted by xiaoman1 (Post 21517553)
I was so excited to find some 650c tires I pulled the trigger before realizing that these were tubulars....

I have done the reverse. Man, I wish companies wouldn't use the same names on clinchers and tubulars.

xiaoman1 06-06-20 06:23 PM


Originally Posted by smontanaro (Post 21519170)
I have done the reverse. Man, I wish companies wouldn't use the same names on clinchers and tubulars.

Well, I should have read the package but my eyes just saw 650c...what was funny when I was speaking to the salesperson I ordered tubes and it didn't register with him either.:bang:

I am still in the market for a 650c, so if anyone has a complete front wheel, I would be interested in a PM from you.
Thanks, Ben :thumb:

jonwvara 06-08-20 05:29 PM

Maiden voyage on Vittoria Corsas
 
I picked up a nice set of old tubular wheels in a trade with member Andy_K a month or so ago. (Thanks, Andy!) The Normandy Luxe hubs proved to be in tip-top shape after bearing ball renewal and fresh grease. Cleaned off the fossilized tubular cement with a small brass-bristled brush and some lacquer thinner, got down pretty much to bare metal. The new Vittorio Corsas went on perfectly with Jantex tape--I was too chicken to use cement for my first attempt at mounting tubulars. They're nominally 28mm wide, but actually measure just a shade over 27. Close enough.

And really, "perfect" might be too strong a word. I got confused and both labels on the tire sidewalls ended up on the non-drive side. Oops. I suppose I should be thankful that they're both on the same side of the bike.

Earlier today, I took them out on a ten-mile rail-trail outing with my wife (on the wonderful Lamoille Valley Rail Trail). It's unpaved, though quite smooth, so I had some misgivings, the more so since I don't yet have a spare tubular or even any sealant. But I concluded that since these tires are going to live in Vermont, where it's hard to go anywhere without encountering some gravel road, they might at well get used to it from the start.

They performed very well. I had not ridden on tubulars since 1971, when Complete Book of Bicycling author Eric Sloane sold me on them at first mention:

"...[T]hey and the wheels they are used on are lighter and more responsive, making cross-country pedaling easier and more enjoyable."

Frankly, they were a big disappointment 49 years ago. In particular, I didn't notice that they made pedaling even slightly easier, although the 45-23 low gear on my new Gitane TdF--compared to the 40-28 or whatever it was on my previous Raleigh Record--may have had something to do with that.

Today's ride was nice. I didn't expect to notice a dramatic change in the quality of the ride, and I didn't. If I pedaled along thinking "wow, these tubulars are really responsive and enjoyable," then yeah, I could sort of imagine that something wonderful was going on. Was that the tires or the 32-spoke wheels? More likely just my imagination. If I just rode along and looked at the scenery they felt pretty much like the 28mm Paselas that were on there before (I had the tubulars inflated to my usual 70 psi). That's fine--I'm too old to believe in magic these days

Still, it's fun to be one of the cool kids now.

[Suddenly anxious] Wait, you guys aren't going to make fun of my label placement, are you?

pastorbobnlnh 06-09-20 07:22 AM


Originally Posted by jonwvara (Post 21522814)
---I'm too old to believe in magic these days

Still, it's fun to be one of the cool kids now.

[Suddenly anxious] Wait, you guys aren't going to make fun of my label placement, are you?

Jon, welcome to olde skool throw-back true C&V riding once again! Retirement brings on adventure and risk-taking! :p

However, you really need to try them on pavement for a real comparison to clinchers. :innocent:

P.S. Purchase a couple of cans of Vittoria Pit Stop for an emergency flat repair. If you'd like I can send you a new Vittoria Rally to use as a spare. :D

semroc 06-09-20 07:07 PM

Just put one of these on the front of my Rossin. Wow! Great tire. My bike really jumped.
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...07e3da9a49.jpg

DiabloScott 06-09-20 07:34 PM


Originally Posted by semroc (Post 21525025)
Just put one of these on the front of my Rossin. Wow! Great tire. My bike really jumped.
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...07e3da9a49.jpg

Seeet! Does it measure a true 25mm or a little wide? Actually I was looking at 28mm because that's a hard max for the Merckx.

squirtdad 06-10-20 09:46 AM


Originally Posted by DiabloScott (Post 21525072)
Seeet! Does it measure a true 25mm or a little wide? Actually I was looking at 28mm because that's a hard max for the Merckx.

I have these on the 84 team miyata, super nice ride......I don't have a lot of miles so can't talk about durability. construction looked good. Running at 130 (i am 245). after meeting I can go and measure mine

obuckler 06-10-20 12:21 PM


Originally Posted by jonwvara (Post 21522814)
....... deletion.......

Today's ride was nice. I didn't expect to notice a dramatic change in the quality of the ride, and I didn't. If I pedaled along thinking "wow, these tubulars are really responsive and enjoyable," then yeah, I could sort of imagine that something wonderful was going on. Was that the tires or the 32-spoke wheels? More likely just my imagination. If I just rode along and looked at the scenery they felt pretty much like the 28mm Paselas that were on there before (I had the tubulars inflated to my usual 70 psi). That's fine--I'm too old to believe in magic these days

.........

I believe in magic!

Comparing a tire’s effect on ride quality is admittedly subjective. But one thing I compare (beyond how I think it feels) is this: while riding I keep an eye on my front tire’s leading edge. I watch how much vibration it exhibits.

Clinchers vs tubular or even a hard tire vs a supple tire all show different degrees of bounce or chatter which is easily seen. This is not entirely objective but it is at least observable.

My supple Corsa G+’s barely move. Other tires chatter.

It would be interesting to see if others notice any correlation of tire quality to ride quality this way.

Other factors in play here: the wheel build (rim type, spoke number/gauge/butted or not, etc.) and tire size/inflation are probably the biggest two.

My wheel builds are all 36 spoke 3 cross and butted spokes (15/16/15 or 1.8/1.6/1.8). For all my tubulars I ride the rear at the lowest psi recommendation and the front 5-10 psi lower. Today on 25mm tires that meant a bit over 100 rear and a bit over 90 front.

semroc 06-10-20 12:40 PM


Originally Posted by DiabloScott (Post 21525072)
Seeet! Does it measure a true 25mm or a little wide? Actually I was looking at 28mm because that's a hard max for the Merckx.

It's 25mm. 80psi, in back 78 in front. Sweet ride.


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