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-   -   Totally Tubular (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=154679)

1989Pre 03-05-23 03:42 PM


Originally Posted by MooneyBloke (Post 22820098)
I believe I rolled a tire in a criterium long ago more because I needed a pump, and someone in my group gave me a barely functional one. I think I was maybe 25psi below an acceptable pressure, so the casing didn't constrict on the rim very well regardless of glue quality. Hard corner crits at speed do thoroughly test your wheel's qualities. So a good rule is don't count on someone else's tools being any good.

Happily, I don't ride crashateriums these days, but I still would rather not rely on anyone else's pump to save my bacon.

Since the max pressure on these is 190 psi, what would be the minimum?

1989Pre 03-05-23 03:51 PM


Originally Posted by Drillium Dude (Post 22820141)
Lastly, for those having issues getting the tire straight before the glue takes a set, tape will cure that, pronto. There's no stick until you removed the protective film, so you can adjust to your heart's content without fear of the tires sticking in place before you've got it oriented to your satisfaction.DD

Are there any brands of tape that you would recommend?

Drillium Dude 03-05-23 04:15 PM


Originally Posted by 1989Pre (Post 22820181)

Are there any brands of tape that you would recommend?

While Monty Young used a tape with a paper-like backing strip (don't know the brand, sorry!), I've had great success with Jantex 76, and get it from this Ebay seller state_fish - I think links to Ebay aren't kosher to post, so you'll have to find the seller by using the following keyword search: Jantex 76 Double Sided Tubular Tape.

I prefer this brand because the backing strip is plastic, and less likely to tear. I once watched Monty fiddle with removing the last foot or so when the paper-like backing strip tore, and it looked a right PITA to get that last bit out!

DD

seedsbelize2 03-05-23 07:41 PM

Late to the party, but my two cents. I have mounted only three tubular tires. The third was a wider replacement of one of the first two. I used Yellow Jersey's instructions, to the letter, and it went well for me. I was 67 at the time.

MooneyBloke 03-05-23 10:23 PM


Originally Posted by 1989Pre (Post 22820178)
Since the max pressure on these is 190 psi, what would be the minimum?

I thought Sprinters used to top out at 170psi, I typically ran my tires around 100. At 75 or less, they would be rather squirrely, and I believe far more prone to rolling off with abusive cornering.

CV-6 03-05-23 11:17 PM


Originally Posted by 1989Pre (Post 22820181)
Are there any brands of tape that you would recommend?

I have been using Miyata rim tape for nearly a decade. Search those words and you will get plenty of results. There is a 20M roll that is the best buy, but there are shorter lengths available if you want to make sure you like it.

Drillium Dude 03-05-23 11:29 PM


Originally Posted by 1989Pre (Post 22820178)

Since the max pressure on these is 190 psi...

Wow - those sound right up my alley :thumb:

DD

Drillium Dude 03-05-23 11:46 PM


Originally Posted by seedsbelize2 (Post 22820422)

Late to the party, but my two cents. I have mounted only three tubular tires. The third was a wider replacement of one of the first two. I used Yellow Jersey's instructions, to the letter, and it went well for me. I was 67 at the time.

Glue or tape? Inquiring minds want to know :)

DD

Positron400 03-06-23 01:38 AM

Not really familiar with tubuluars, but thought I'd ask: Isn't tire pressure of 100+ psi suuuper rough to ride on? Like, you feel every buzz and bump? Sounds like the opposite of comfort.

Drillium Dude 03-06-23 02:27 AM


Originally Posted by Positron400 (Post 22820613)
Not really familiar with tubuluars, but thought I'd ask: Isn't tire pressure of 100+ psi suuuper rough to ride on? Like, you feel every buzz and bump? Sounds like the opposite of comfort.

Depends on the composition of the casing, number of threads-per-inch, rubber quality - even the material of the bead (in the case of clinchers/open tubulars).

Anyway, some of us like lots of feedback from the road, as long as it isn't too harsh. 145psi and up (on decent wheels mated to an equally decent frame) with high-quality tires isn't harsh, but definitely transmits the feel of the road - which is what I want my tires to do.

Lots of moving parts in the equation, it's hard to be more specific. Body and bike work as one, but only if they interact well, correct? Higher pressures also mean lower rolling resistance, to toss out yet another variable.

DD

Positron400 03-06-23 04:01 AM

Yea, i guess that makes sense.

Originally Posted by Drillium Dude (Post 22820622)
Higher pressures also mean lower rolling resistance, to toss out yet another variable.

DD

Does this still hold true? I've read that lower pressure actually rolls faster. I think Rene Herse/Compass did some testing on that - not tubulars afair though.

1989Pre 03-06-23 05:24 AM


Originally Posted by MooneyBloke (Post 22820532)
I thought Sprinters used to top out at 170psi, I typically ran my tires around 100. At 75 or less, they would be rather squirrely, and I believe far more prone to rolling off with abusive cornering.

Thanks. I double-checked and it says "tubular (vs clincher) pressure 90-180psi". These are modern tires, I think they only stopped making them within the last five or ten years.

1989Pre 03-06-23 05:29 AM


Originally Posted by Drillium Dude (Post 22820572)
Wow - those sound right up my alley :thumb:

DD

Is the 18mm Jantex tape suitable for 25mm width tires? (The listing says up to 23mm, but another listing for the 18mm says up to 25mm tires.)

There is a new-but-dirty pair of the 25's for sale right now on my favorite online auction house site. Bontrager R4 hard case lite Tubular. They only go to 180psi.

"Anyway, some of us like lots of feedback from the road, as long as it isn't too harsh."

Exactly. This is the #1 characteristic that I look for in a ride. For me, this means hard tires, compliant frame.

Positron400 03-06-23 05:58 AM


Originally Posted by 1989Pre (Post 22820654)
"Glue or tape? Inquiring minds want to know" https://www.bikeforums.net/images/smilies/smile.gif

Maybe only my hairdresser knows for-sure, but for two bits, I will tell you the answer! (lays on floor face-down, kicking and pounding).

Tape - it's faster. No need for repeat drying/curing cycles ;)

pastorbobnlnh 03-06-23 07:14 AM


Originally Posted by 1989Pre (Post 22820181)
Are there any brands of tape that you would recommend?

I've used Tufo tape in the past with good results, but for the past couple of years I've been using effetto Mariposa Carogna Tubular Tape. It also comes in shop sized rolls for better economy. When I've needed to remove a tire for replacement or repair, I've not had any issues.

I also use their glue or mastic remover, when cleaning old, glue laden rims, back to their original condition.

seedsbelize2 03-06-23 08:19 AM


Originally Posted by Drillium Dude (Post 22820583)
Glue or tape? Inquiring minds want to know :)

DD

Glue. An uncommon brand I found on Amazon. I can't remember the name of it at the moment. I wanted to try the traditional way too. But now that it's pretty much unobtanium, in these parts, I'll be happy to switch to tape.

1989Pre 03-06-23 02:11 PM

Thank you to all who helped me through this mind-warp. I peeled the tire off, re-installed and it worked perfectly. I just needed the right advice/perspectives and some experience. I think what I learnt is; go slowly and carefully on installation, use your hands, not spoons and allow some drying time before installing the tire. Also, the tire benefited from having a second stretching after the installation with glue, because I was able to put it on with my fingers, just like as-recommended.
In one youtube video, the guy does a second stretching, after the second coat has dried, but he said the reason is to let the cotton bed (I forget the correct word) open up to absorb the final coat of glue at installation.
I might re-install the front tire, now, since the conditions have changed for the better. (I tried to upload a video, but AVI files need to be converted, apparently). Anyway, it was all good. Thanks again.

Drillium Dude 03-06-23 02:44 PM


Originally Posted by Positron400 (Post 22820633)

Does this still hold true? I've read that lower pressure actually rolls faster.

Granted, lower pressures will result in a cushier ride, particularly with a tire of larger cross section - that's what many people tend to forget. I ride 23mm tires - you can't run low pressures on narrow tires and expect a cushy ride - that would be an attempt to get a free lunch. There are trade-offs. Higher pressures equaling low rolling resistance will always be true: because science.

Think about it: you may recall the old Shell 'driving tips' pamphlets (they may have done TV spots, too) from the 80s; if not, these were PSA pamphlets ranging in topics from when to change your oil, to the proper time/manner to rotate your tires. One tidbit which has always stuck: keep your tires inflated to the correct pressure; too low causes lower gas mileage due to increased rolling resistance, while too high can cause the center of the tread to overheat, resulting in premature tire wear.

You can test this yourself. Ride the bike at your normal operating pressure. Then, let out 10psi. Does it feel as though you need to make a bit more effort to ride as fast as you did when running at normal pressure?

DD

Drillium Dude 03-06-23 02:58 PM


Originally Posted by 1989Pre (Post 22821131)

Thank you to all who helped me through this mind-warp. I peeled the tire off, re-installed and it worked perfectly. I just needed the right advice/perspectives and some experience. I think what I learnt is; go slowly and carefully on installation, use your hands, not spoons and allow some drying time before installing the tire.

Also, the tire benefited from having a second stretching after the installation with glue, because I was able to put it on with my fingers, just like as-recommended.

Anyway, it was all good. Thanks again.

Woo-hoo! Very happy for you that this ended well, and of course, taking a lesson from the process = priceless :)

You asked about whether 18mm tape would work with 25mm tubulars, and I must admit: I don't know. Jantex might well have some information regarding size compatibility, so I'd check around on the Interwebz, see what you can find from the manufacturer.

As with most anything, advice is best given after we've either gained knowledge or experience. Since I've not taped anything larger than 23s with Jantex 18mm tape, I can't in good conscience advise further.

Enjoy the ride - I bet those Bontragers will feel great!

DD

Bobjackson 03-06-23 03:39 PM

Great discussion! FWIW: I use Tufo tape....love it. Glue was the only way in the 70's. Mom hated it....stunk up the apartment. ​​​​​​​So the tape width is determined by the inner dimension of the rim shy of the braking surface. I ride Conti.Gators. 25mm. My rim Id. is 19mm soTufo 18-22mm tape....works great. Lots of hills and miles...all good.​​​​​​​

Aardwolf 03-06-23 04:21 PM

I've used Tufo tape too - on 2 sets of tubulars so far.

Just checked and I got Tufo 19mm x 2m tape: "Rim Width Compatibility: 19-22mm".
That's from Wiggle.co.uk

I've used it on 28mm tyres and it's working fine.
Actual rims are outer width 22mm (Mavic Monthlery Route)

Positron400 03-07-23 03:25 AM


Originally Posted by Drillium Dude (Post 22821163)

Think about it: you may recall the old Shell 'driving tips' pamphlets (they may have done TV spots, too) from the 80s; if not, these were PSA pamphlets ranging in topics from when to change your oil, to the proper time/manner to rotate your tires. One tidbit which has always stuck: keep your tires inflated to the correct pressure; too low causes lower gas mileage due to increased rolling resistance, while too high can cause the center of the tread to overheat, resulting in premature tire wear.

DD

..yea, I've never seen those TV spots, nor do I own a car, but I think I understand what you are getting at :) .On clinchers, i don't run anything smaller than 28 (which is already rough, but doable with tubeless). I actually have a pair of Giro 25 tubs and schwalbe tire glue. Might try them out at some point, if I can be arsed to glue them (never done that before). But this has gotten me curious.
If you puncture on the road, what do you do? tape?

1989Pre 03-07-23 05:43 AM


Originally Posted by Positron400 (Post 22821673)
If you puncture on the road, what do you do? tape?

I need some info on this, too. I bought a bottle of Stan's Sealant and valve-core remover, and they say that will seal up a puncture, but I have never done this before.

Positron400 03-07-23 05:58 AM


Originally Posted by 1989Pre (Post 22821692)
I need some info on this, too. I bought a bottle of Stan's Sealant and valve-core remover, and they say that will seal up a puncture, but I have never done this before.

this i might be able to add my 2 cents to. You basically wanna remove the valve core and add some amount of Stan's sealant (dunno how much, but i recon 40 mL would suffice), put in the valve core again and pump the tyre up. If you you were to get a puncture on the road, the sealant would clog up the hole w/o you even noticing. So it effectively reduced the chance of your puncturing at all (to a degree, since massive sidewall slahses wont usually seal)

1989Pre 03-07-23 06:59 AM


Originally Posted by Positron400 (Post 22821700)
this i might be able to add my 2 cents to. You basically wanna remove the valve core and add some amount of Stan's sealant (dunno how much, but i recon 40 mL would suffice), put in the valve core again and pump the tyre up. If you you were to get a puncture on the road, the sealant would clog up the hole w/o you even noticing. So it effectively reduced the chance of your puncturing at all (to a degree, since massive sidewall slahses wont usually seal)

You are saying that you put this stuff in before the puncture? That is news-to-me. Thanks. This bottle is 59ml. Do I deflate the tire before removing valve core, or will removing it deflate the tire?

L134 03-07-23 08:12 AM


Originally Posted by 1989Pre (Post 22821692)
I need some info on this, too. I bought a bottle of Stan's Sealant and valve-core remover, and they say that will seal up a puncture, but I have never done this before.

For me, I carry at least one spare tire - either an inexpensive Vittoria Rally or a used tire pre-glued. I rip off the flatted tire and install the spare. Usually a very quick job. Most will caution to ride the spare very carefully until you get home to do a proper glue job. I've never worried about that too much and have no bad experiences to report. I concluded that my riding style is conservative enough that it, apparently, isn't much of an issue. I don't race. Once home, I decide whether to patch the flatted tire or use sealant. If the leak is slow enough that I can pump the tire up hard, sealant usually does the job. I'd guess 75-90% of my punctures are successfully treated with sealant. I prefer to mess with sealant at home rather than on the road.

Eventually, I will attempt to patch almost any tire before I pitch it for the sake of practice if nothing else.

Positron400 03-07-23 08:31 AM


Originally Posted by 1989Pre (Post 22821733)
You are saying that you put this stuff in before the puncture? That is news-to-me. Thanks. This bottle is 59ml. Do I deflate the tire before removing valve core, or will removing it deflate the tire?

Yes you do. The latex compound with the particles clogs up any would-be-punctures and only minimal air should escape.
Regarding the valve core, that is up to you really. If you remove the valve core, all the air will be let out anyways. So you can either deflate it beforehand, or just remove the valve core right away.
I think the amount of sealant is also dependent on the size of the tire. Stan's might have a reccomendation, but imma say go with 40 mL (since i presume you run a 25 mm tire at most)

Aardwolf 03-07-23 09:46 AM

I'm using Orange Seal.

Got a 1mm puncture on my new Vittoria Rubinos last year after 93 miles.
Did some research and installed Orange Seal, now another 1100 miles with no punctures (that I noticed).

DiabloScott 03-07-23 11:23 AM


Originally Posted by 1989Pre (Post 22821733)
You are saying that you put this stuff in before the puncture? That is news-to-me. Thanks.

There are 3 options:
1. Pre-emptory sealant... the way tubeless tire riders do it. Statistically works pretty well but you never know if you would've flatted or not without it unless you pull out a goat head or something and watch it work... so most people pack a spare tire anyway. With smaller road tires though, you might lose enough air before the plug happens that you have to press the tire up again even if the sealant does work.
2. Repair sealant... keep a bottle in your pocket and after you flat on the road, inject the sealant and hope it works. It reportedly does work often enough that people find it worth trying... not well enough that people don't pack a spare tire also. Before sealants got as good as they are now, people would sometimes bring something like Vittoria Pitt Stop that had sealant and pressurized air in the same can... I estimate that has about a 50% chance of working.
3. Both

Summary: if you have a flat on the road and you're not in a hurry and you want to avoid swapping on your spare and throwing away the flatted one... worth a shot to try and seal it in place.
You need a spare anyway because some flats are absolutely unsealable, and success with the easier punctures isn't guaranteed.

Classtime 03-07-23 11:30 AM

I don't normally use sealant. I prefer to use the spare and patch the punctured tire when I get home. Sealant can dry into a clump inside the tube if you don't ride that tire regularly and you need to remember t store the bike/wheel with the valve near 12 o'clock so you don't clog it up. In the event that the sealant won't seal a puncture, you need to patch it anyway and the sealant makes a mess that I'd rather avoid.

I will use sealant in tires used for a timed $$$ event for a better chance I won't have to stop for tire changes.

(btw, this is all in earlier posts.)


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