What bike should I get? Still not sure...
 

Hey everyone,

I'm currently in the market for a folding bike that'll last and even with all the research I've done, I'm not 100% on what to get.

Wants

• Something I can upgrade parts to eventually, such disk brakes or maybe even internal hub.
• 20in wheels, and can take wider
• Okay to be used in park recreational trails, a few stretches of gravel, dirt tracks, and of course roads and pavements
• I'm in Toronto, Canada. Mentioning just in case there are options here.

​​​​​​Not sure what frame material would work best with these wants so I'm open to suggestion.

I've narrowed it so far

• Bike friday, NWT or diamond. Can't find current reviews, so I'm wondering if they are still worth the buy. Seems like they check all the wants. Only issue being, I'm in Canada.
• Dahon, and there is a supplier in Canada called "powerinmotion.ca". But I'm not 100% sure if these frames are upgradeable in the future, or what life expectancy to expect from the newer frames.
• Helix looks really neat but looks like they are backed up for a while and $$$.
• Giant Expressway. There is a store in Toronto. Wonder if it checks the boxes though.

Anything I may have missed?
Honestly, if wish I could just get a BMX bike with long seat post and gears at this point if that existed, haha. Too bad that "hooligan" bike is hard to find.

Thanks!

​​

I have not owned one, but NWT always gets great reviews.

BF Llama or NWT, either will work great for you. You can buy new, pre-loved from BF, or get a used one on CL.

You look for a folding bike but you do not mention any requirement about folding: need to fold (when, why, how often), size folded, ease of folding...

The BMX you mention is not a folding bike.

Do you really need a folding bike or just a small wheel bike ?

Often, after every use. Live in a small apartment.
If worse comes to worse and none fit the bill I'm open to a small 20" bike, but that's the max my space can afford.

I currently have both a Dahon Speed and a Bike Friday Crusoe. I owned the Dahon about a year before I got the BF. I enjoyed the Dahon, but the BF completely outclasses it. It really does feel like a real bike. The Dahon always had some wiggle and shimmy when I hit the bars (handlebars, not drinking bars :) ), but the BF is solid.

You could also look for a used Xootr Swift. They're reputedly very solid.

I've fallen back in love with my Bike Friday Pocket Rocket. For you, I'd consider the NWT or the Llama like linberl said due to your desire for some gravel cycling. I haven't ridden my PR, but I'm currently getting accustomed to riding it again. I'm taking it to Washington DC on a business trip. I'm going a day before to ride it to Mt. Vernon, then after visiting that historical site, I'll come back to DC and do a small section of the C&O before dinner. In August, I'm bringing it to Oregon to do the Crater Lake Century. I've done the GFNY New York century in 2018 on my BFPR, and it was solid as a rock. And besides, there's no better feeling than passing someone on a folding bike, followed by the huffing and puffing you hear the other rider doing to try and pass you again. Sometimes they do, and sometimes they don't... it's still fun.

I have a Dahon Mariner D8 and would highly recommend it. My annual mileage total last year was a bit under 600 (but for the vast majority of that being the last 3 months of the year that wasn't bad) and 225 of those miles were on the Mariner - mostly lightly loaded with 2 panniers and a handlebar bag.

For the price I don't think you can beat it. I think I paid around $650 for it.

It will handle all kinds of asphalt riding, some harder gravel, and hard packed dirt. I would not want to ride any conventional bike on "loose" gravel. The trails I have been on that I would call "gravel" I wouldn't hesitate taking the Mariner on. If a portion was too loose or soft I probably couldn't ride on it with any bike I have anyway.

As for the size and fold-ability - the Mariner, stock, is very easy once you get the hang of it. I swapped out the pedals with combo SPD/platforms as that is the only way I can ride any distance (knee problems). Since the SPD pedals don't fold that is one constraint in my case that is different. The other is that I use Ortleib panniers and their handlebar bag. The mount for the bar bag uses a cable system to lock the mount to the bar. This works very well to hold the bag, however it renders the ability to move the handlebar for folding impossible. The only way to fold the bike is to back the cable lock off the handle bar bag mount by loosening 2 set screws and the cable screw itself. This takes more time to set up and break down (just the bag mount) than folding and unfolding the bike.

WIth that having been said, I make do with the bar bag mount and the way the bike works, for me, is just fine. I have been very happy with the Mariner and I ride it as a regular bike. It isn't just a "travel bike", I actually ride it locally as well as day tours here and out traveling. It has been an absolutely wonderful door opener so I can get some freedom of riding when I cant have a "big bike". And that is perfectly fine - I enjoy it, its comfortable (the stock saddle fits me wonderfully), and suits my riding.

You mention the ability to be upgradable. What I would like to do with mine is add a 2nd chain ring up front - with a lower tooth count. The gearing on the bike is OK for flat ground. The top end, for me, is just fine. I don't really want to be going any faster than I can crank out in top gear on the bike anyway. Climbing hills - now that is another story. That is where the stock gearing is weak.

I will also caution this. Some riders use their grip on the handlebars of a bike to twist around and gain more power in their crank strokes. I believe what I am referring to common from people that have learned to "race". Folding bikes are NOT able to withstand this type of force due to the tall masts/handlebar stems. There is too much leverage in the length of the handlebar post and you will likely break the frame in short order by doing this.

Lastly, the 20" bikes ride great. My "big bike" is a 700c Disk Trucker. Compared to the Disk Trucker the Mariner is very "twitchy". However, this is common to all the small wheel bikes. With that having been said, for it's class - the Mariner really does ride well. And I dare state that it rides even better loaded as you are putting on some mass to counter the twitchy'ness (by mass I mean panniers off the sides of the rear rack down low mostly).

So it seems that you do not need a folding bike that folds very small ?

In your list of requirements, the point I see that can cause problems is the use of the bike on recreational trails, stretches of gravel and dirt tracks.

You should first look at the maximum tire width accepted by the frame with mudguards.

For this reason, Helix won't fit (only relatively narrow road or BMX tires, no mudguards).

For offroad use, a bike with full suspension would help I think.

Even if its not 20" wheels, I think that a Birdy will fit your needs: it folds well (not as well as a Bormpton but you probably do not need such an easy and small fold) and is easy to carry folded, it has full suspension, it accepts wide tires including off road tires.

The ride from downtown to Mt Vernon is one of my favourites on a folder, when you get there stop at the bar for a pint and try their chesnut soup...it's like hot liquid peanut butter.

As others have mentioned you can't go wrong with a 20 inch Dahon. Affordable and can handle 90% of the terrain out there. Light dirt or gravel they handle fine, I've used mine on class 1 desert trails without issue. It's the bmx bike with long seat post you mentioned.

Just FYI, you can't just "upgrade" to disc brakes- the frame has to have integral mounting points for the calipers. Internally-geared hubs generally require horizontal rear dropouts, so conversion of a frame designed for a derailleur-based drivetrain to IGH involves adding a chain tensioner or "half links" to the chain.

Leaving out the upgrading criteria as SWEEKS suggets and I agree, there are a couple of other choices that are available to you in Toronto. For a non-folder you could look at the Moulton's. I test drove this bike here in Toronto and it was far superior to my Brompton. The Brompton won because of the fold, but the bike rides like crap. The other brand that sells well in Toronto is Tern. Urbane Cycles, I believe still sell them.

As others and even yourself mentioned, the Bike Fridays are a class in their own. They are essentially a handmade bike but you pay for this privilege. I don't think you can wrong with that brand.

Last check out the MEC Origami bike. They have two models and one is on sale. https://www.mec.ca/en/product/5053-259/Origami-Bicycle. MEC make great value bikes.

Have fun with whatever you choose.

For a non folder, the Moulton XTB is probably what fits the best to your requirements.
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...6cc1e82332.jpg
It will outperform any folder or BMX bike. Its price places it also in another category of bikes.

The Brompton doesn't ride like crap, it rides pretty well on good roads.

Its main drawback is its comfort on bad roads where its small wheels with high pressure relatively narrow tires do not perform well. This will be the case with all small wheel bikes with narrow high pressure tires without full suspension.
Both the Birdy (folder) and Moulton (only separable) have full suspension and accepts wide tires.

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2db59be71d.png

I will not recommend the Bike Friday Pocket Rocket nor NWT if you need to fold the bike every time you use/store it.
They are great riding bikes, but they are more of "bikes that break down for packing" than "fold and go".

Just get a Dahon unless again you have special needs like weight limits/stress, very tall, etc.

If you live in/near a big city, go on Craigslist and test ride folders that are for sale.

Have you checked TERN VERGE S8I its got most of the high-end options you may want?

Tern bikes have a history of frame failure,...I don't recommend them at all.

tds101 I have been informed you have been known to be rude and speak before you think, all you know is the bad on something like the TERN company, they have improved, yes the past they have had problems, but doesn't everybody like you, let the thread starter do his own investigation before leaving negative comment.

For someone with 2 posts you seem really defensive of your capitalized TERN.

Too bad you made this personal, have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, and show a complete lack of knowledge and intelligence. Don't speak on matters that you are i'll informed of. Apparently you're too childish to be polite.
https://www.bikeforums.net/folding-b...rn-recall.html

At least am not negative towards the main topic of the tread, keep it positive that goes for you too.

then don't be negative towards my reply to the thread without explaining why tern is not good to you, I know enough about their problems in the past and they have made corrections towards the issues they had. Grumpy old man...

Perhaps you might be taken seriously if you didn't go negative and call a member names. How about telling the poster why Tern is a good option? What is it you most enjoy about the bike?

Dahon k3 plus 16 has 9 speed cassette on 16 inch wheels with disc brakes for 500 to 600 dollars. But only available in Hong Kong. Under 10kg. You could probably put on a 10 speed 11-42 cassette with a 10 speed shifter and Shimano zee Rd, or else an 11-34t 11 speed cassette if it has an 11 speed hub, and double chainrings, altho the Rd is probably limited to SS short cage. It could probably fit in a regular sized regulation suit case without disassembly
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...58a7cab085.jpg

I would encourage the OP purchase ASAP. The coronavirus has broken supply chains. I expect everyone will sell out of inventory. This rational applies to all industries.

FYI several countries will not allow Chinese goods in. I believe this dynamic is likely to expand and could have horrible consequences for the global economy.

Please understand that if one component from a bike/TV/computer is made in China then the entire product may be part of a broken supply chain.

I don't think the modern world has experienced anything like this before. I'm curious to see how it plays out.

Thanks
Yan