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-   -   Totally Tubular (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=154679)

Senrab62 06-17-23 09:38 PM


Originally Posted by SwimmerMike (Post 22925791)
Not training tubulars, but a killer deal on tubulars that are in your size range.

excel sports has twin packs of either Victoria Corsa Control G2.0 or Victoria Corsa G2.0 for $89 for the pair so $44.50 each.The Corsa controls go up to 30's.

Mike

Got a pair of the 25mm. I believe 28 would fit, but didn't want to take the chance of them not fitting and missing out. Saw this earlier the day you posted, and pulled the trigger. Excellent price

MooneyBloke 06-18-23 07:28 PM


Originally Posted by SwimmerMike (Post 22925791)
Not training tubulars, but a killer deal on tubulars that are in your size range.

excel sports has twin packs of either Victoria Corsa Control G2.0 or Victoria Corsa G2.0 for $89 for the pair so $44.50 each.The Corsa controls go up to 30's.

Mike

Ummm... Based on a quick google, I don't think those are tubs. Nice text in some ads like "The ride of a handmade tubular with the convenience of a clincher." That doesn't sound like a sew-up to me. That also accounts for the price being far less than Vitt's sew-up tires.

DiabloScott 06-18-23 07:41 PM


Originally Posted by MooneyBloke (Post 22927663)
Ummm... Based on a quick google, I don't think those are tubs. Nice text in some ads like "The ride of a handmade tubular with the convenience of a clincher." That doesn't sound like a sew-up to me. That also accounts for the price being far less than Vitt's sew-up tires.

It is confusing when they give tubulars and "open tubulars" the same model name.

Even more confusing when the clinchers are more expensive.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...1a8131549b.jpg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4a75a71abf.jpg

SwimmerMike 06-18-23 08:25 PM


Originally Posted by MooneyBloke (Post 22927663)
Ummm... Based on a quick google, I don't think those are tubs. Nice text in some ads like "The ride of a handmade tubular with the convenience of a clincher." That doesn't sound like a sew-up to me. That also accounts for the price being far less than Vitt's sew-up tires.

Nope. They were tubulars. I run both. I have received the 6 I ordered and they are tubulars and not clinchers.

smontanaro 06-26-23 03:03 PM

I can confirm @SwimmerMike's assessment. They are tubulars.

I just pumped up a pair of 28s and a pair of 30s. I do have a couple questions about them:
  1. They have black valve stems which seem removable with a 5mm wrench. Are silver replacements available? Can the black be sanded off?
  2. The page for these puppies on the Vittoria website goes to some lengths about the cotton casing and the graphene additive to the tread, but mentions nothing about the tubes. Are they butyl or latex? I don't really care (though figure for a top-of-the-line tire they should be latex). I just want to know how long I should expect them to hold air during a "leak down" test.

Senrab62 06-26-23 10:03 PM


Originally Posted by smontanaro (Post 22935587)
I can confirm @SwimmerMike's assessment. They are tubulars.

I just pumped up a pair of 28s and a pair of 30s. I do have a couple questions about them:

Unfortunately, I cannot answer your question, though I thought I researched latex tubes, but don't hold me to that.

I am curious, did the 28 measure at 28? I'm considering getting a pair, but am worried about clearance.

79pmooney 06-26-23 10:49 PM


Originally Posted by smontanaro (Post 22935587)
I can confirm @SwimmerMike's assessment. They are tubulars.

I just pumped up a pair of 28s and a pair of 30s. I do have a couple questions about them:
  1. They have black valve stems which seem removable with a 5mm wrench. Are silver replacements available? Can the black be sanded off?
  2. The page for these puppies on the Vittoria website goes to some lengths about the cotton casing and the graphene additive to the tread, but mentions nothing about the tubes. Are they butyl or latex? I don't really care (though figure for a top-of-the-line tire they should be latex). I just want to know how long I should expect them to hold air during a "leak down" test.

I don't know the answer but they deflate a good deal overnight. Probably 90 psi down to 70 psi. I've had latex that lost more but I am pretty certain the Gs aren't butyl. (Haven't opened one up yet.) The Veloflexes I'm riding on one bike loose about twice as much air. Pretty sure those are straight up, fairly thin latex. The Gs might be a thicker latex.

smontanaro 06-27-23 07:13 AM


Originally Posted by Senrab62 (Post 22935983)
I am curious, did the 28 measure at 28? I'm considering getting a pair, but am worried about clearance.

Don't know. They aren't mounted on rims. I haven't even removed the hang tags yet. I only inflated them to 30psi to make sure there were no obvious defects.

SwimmerMike 06-27-23 09:49 AM


Originally Posted by Senrab62 (Post 22935983)

I am curious, did the 28 measure at 28? I'm considering getting a pair, but am worried about clearance.

I haven't mounted the 28's yet either. But I have some 30's mounted that I just measured at about 29.2.

MooneyBloke 06-27-23 05:20 PM


Originally Posted by DiabloScott (Post 22927673)
It is confusing when they give tubulars and "open tubulars" the same model name.

Even more confusing when the clinchers are more expensive.

Indeed. I may find myself taking advantage of this. I am having a spate of horrid luck. Yesterday, I plugged a slow leak in my front with Stans, and today I was resigned to twenty miles of gusty headwind for the first half of my ride, and suddenly at about 3km out PSSSSS!!!!! I figured my sealant hadn't done the job, but no!!!!! It was a relatively new Veloflex on the rear rear that got eaten by something. I didn't glue it that long ago, the
Conti glue on the rim still has some tackiness, and I still have the piece of paper that comes stuck over the valve stem. Right now, I have the tire patched and waiting for sewing, but I had hoped to get at least a few hundred more miles on it before I had to do this, and I have no fresh sew-ups at this point. That flat was one of the last two.

SwimmerMike 06-27-23 05:34 PM


Originally Posted by MooneyBloke (Post 22936780)
Indeed. I may find myself taking advantage of this. I am having a spate of horrid luck. Yesterday, I plugged a slow leak in my front with Stans, and today I was resigned to twenty miles of gusty headwind for the first half of my ride, and suddenly at about 3km out PSSSSS!!!!! I figured my sealant hadn't done the job, but no!!!!! It was a relatively new Veloflex on the rear rear that got eaten by something. I didn't glue it that long ago, the
Conti glue on the rim still has some tackiness, and I still have the piece of paper that comes stuck over the valve stem. Right now, I have the tire patched and waiting for sewing, but I had hoped to get at least a few hundred more miles on it before I had to do this, and I have no fresh sew-ups at this point. That flat was one of the last two.

I was getting low after a similar experience where I flatted 3 tubulars in a week. My experience is that I won't even try Stan's if I here the infamous PSSSSS. If I slowly lose air, I found the Stan's is great, but if it is a quick release I have only had luck in making a mess, not in actually being able to ride. I was planning on stocking up on some Rally's to "hold me over" then when I saw this deal I went all-in.

MooneyBloke 06-28-23 02:46 AM


Originally Posted by SwimmerMike (Post 22936794)
My experience is that I won't even try Stan's if I here the infamous PSSSSS. If I slowly lose air, I found the Stan's is great, but if it is a quick release I have only had luck in making a mess, not in actually being able to ride.

Agree. That's why I have the patient open and patched and awaiting the needle. Stan's might get me home without needing a roadside change if I get that sort of puncture, but it won't hold the 6.9bar front and 7.6bar rear that I run in my 23s. So now, both the front and rear tires on that wheel set have little blue Sharpie marks (another good reason for gum sidewalls) indicating leak locations. Chafing tape's back in place, so now let's see if I can get this beast stitched back together without making it horridly lumpy.

L134 06-28-23 01:37 PM


Originally Posted by smontanaro (Post 22935587)
I can confirm @SwimmerMike's assessment. They are tubulars.
  1. The page for these puppies on the Vittoria website goes to some lengths about the cotton casing and the graphene additive to the tread, but mentions nothing about the tubes. Are they butyl or latex? I don't really care (though figure for a top-of-the-line tire they should be latex). I just want to know how long I should expect them to hold air during a "leak down" test.

I just had to open up one of my 25's and the tube is latex. Sidewall cut after only 41 miles. Hope it is just the luck of the draw. Will relegate to spare duty.

MooneyBloke 06-28-23 01:39 PM

Got the beast (Veloflex Crit) sewn back together and glued on; it seems like it's not lumpy. No idea whether the tire gremlins will smile on the effort or not.

Edit the next day: sadly, the tire gremlins were angry at my hubris, and I'm home, but I'm out one CO2 cartridge. Don't know if it's a new hole or a patch failure. I'm just happy, the nasty spare from under the seat didn't go pop on the way back.

MooneyBloke 06-30-23 03:46 PM

Dumb question time: at what point do you strip the old glue from your rims?

Aardwolf 06-30-23 05:42 PM

Had a front flat yesterday (Vittoria Rubino Pro G+ 28mm).
The wheel was bent in a collision 1 month back, but I thought the tyre was OK (I rebuilt the wheel after the forks were fixed).

Tried the frame pump, then walked it home (1 mile).
Installed more Orange Seal and flat gone :)

The Orange Seal was the same bottle I used 13 months (and about 2k miles) back when I first discovered sealant.
I think I lost some fluid while fixing the wheel, or I've had several punctures I didn't notice,
either way I'm quite impressed with sealant :)

pastorbobnlnh 06-30-23 09:03 PM


Originally Posted by MooneyBloke (Post 22940187)
Dumb question time: at what point do you strip the old glue from your rims?


Originally Posted by 1989Pre (Post 22940237)
Every question that is asked helps me and others who could benefit from knowing the answer.

I'm certain there are many opinions about glue removal. Since I use tape, I always start with a clean rim.

79pmooney 06-30-23 09:18 PM


Originally Posted by MooneyBloke (Post 22940187)
Dumb question time: at what point do you strip the old glue from your rims?

I rode Tubasti forever. (Race wheels got glues with the hard stuff. Vitoria or Clement.) My policy was to not strip the glue unless it was obviously sticking better to the tire than the rim. I worried more about the rim-glue connection than the glue-tire connection. First glue job to a bare aluminum rim is the one I always trusted the least. I don't feel secure until it has taken real work to separated the tire from the bedded glue.

I said this in past tense. I'm back to tubulars and Tubasti after 25 years off. (First run was about 25 years.) So all my wheels are pretty new without great glue bases and I don't yet have the confidence to fully bomb corners. (I'm also 70 now so there's that also.)

MooneyBloke 07-01-23 09:27 AM


Originally Posted by 79pmooney (Post 22940388)
First glue job to a bare aluminum rim is the one I always trusted the least. I don't feel secure until it has taken real work to separated the tire from the bedded glue.

I can understand, but it gets to a point where the base is quite visibly thick and has picked up junk from the times the rim has been tire-less. At our age, I think criterium corners are wisely a thing of the past regardless of glue job. There are plenty of other ways to wash out besides rolling a tire.

So yesterday, I wound up stripping the rear. I miss the old dichloromethane strippers that would quickly turn any sew-up glue into easily removed snot. Evidently, someone asphyxiated himself by using one in an enclosed space to strip a piece of furniture, so the only strippers now available do a mediocre job of loosening the mastic, and one needs to do several attempts. Now the thing is stripped, wiped down with acetone, and reglued.

Sadly, the victim (tire) had to be opened three times. After the first patch, I heard a snick I though was a twig only to have my tire go soft at eight miles down the road. Happily my spare and CO2 cartridge came to the rescue, and the spare despite rubbing up against the saddle rails held until I got home. So open the beast and replace the patch. Once again I heard the snick when I went out to see how lumpy my stitching was. Damn! Open and look carefully at the patch (1 sq-in latex bit), and there's a hole in the patch at the same place the original puncture occurred. I look carefully at the injury to the casing, and I think there are three or four threads cut, and I think there's just enough room for a latex tube to stretch out and pop when the tire flexes. Now, as an experiment, there's a 1 sq-in piece of duck cloth (boot) glued to the casing with E6000, and a third patch has been applied, and I think there's just enough bulk that the tube can't push out through the cut. No snick so far, but I'm a bit leery about how far this thing can roll. The tire seems no more lumpy than after my second attempt. I think the thing is to examine casing injuries, and assume that a small boot may be needed if more than a couple of threads are cut. I suspect a butyl tube would not have this issue.

MooneyBloke 07-01-23 03:49 PM

Tire with the duck cloth boot and patch survived 67Km today. Yes... a bit lumpy, but it did better than I expected. Examination of the exterior suggests the boot didn't protrude at all, and that was my main worry. I had filled the cut with E6000 (stretchy rubbery urethane adhesive), and even that seems to have stayed put.

Bad Lag 07-04-23 07:04 PM


Originally Posted by MooneyBloke (Post 22940779)
I can understand, but it gets to a point where the base is quite visibly thick and has picked up junk from the times the rim has been tire-less. At our age, I think criterium corners are wisely a thing of the past regardless of glue job. There are plenty of other ways to wash out besides rolling a tire.

So yesterday, I wound up stripping the rear. I miss the old dichloromethane strippers that would quickly turn any sew-up glue into easily removed snot. Evidently, someone asphyxiated himself by using one in an enclosed space to strip a piece of furniture, so the only strippers now available do a mediocre job of loosening the mastic, and one needs to do several attempts. Now the thing is stripped, wiped down with acetone, and reglued.

Sadly, the victim (tire) had to be opened three times. After the first patch, I heard a snick I though was a twig only to have my tire go soft at eight miles down the road. Happily my spare and CO2 cartridge came to the rescue, and the spare despite rubbing up against the saddle rails held until I got home. So open the beast and replace the patch. Once again I heard the snick when I went out to see how lumpy my stitching was. Damn! Open and look carefully at the patch (1 sq-in latex bit), and there's a hole in the patch at the same place the original puncture occurred. I look carefully at the injury to the casing, and I think there are three or four threads cut, and I think there's just enough room for a latex tube to stretch out and pop when the tire flexes. Now, as an experiment, there's a 1 sq-in piece of duck cloth (boot) glued to the casing with E6000, and a third patch has been applied, and I think there's just enough bulk that the tube can't push out through the cut. No snick so far, but I'm a bit leery about how far this thing can roll. The tire seems no more lumpy than after my second attempt. I think the thing is to examine casing injuries, and assume that a small boot may be needed if more than a couple of threads are cut. I suspect a butyl tube would not have this issue.

I came to read some of this thread, starting at the end, thinking I might just try tubulars again.

NOPE!

You convinced me not to, by reminding me of all the troubles I once had with them and how happy I was to eventually get some high performance clincher tires.

What was I thinking? I do not mean this as a put down, just my reaction to the posts. I selected MooneyBloke's post as representative of the cause of my reaction..

Enjoy riding whatever tires you care to use.

79pmooney 07-04-23 09:19 PM


Originally Posted by Bad Lag (Post 22944309)
I came to read some of this thread, starting at the end, thinking I might just try tubulars again.

NOPE!

You convinced me not to, by reminding me of all the troubles I once had with them and how happy I was to eventually get some high performance clincher tires.

What was I thinking? I do not mean this as a put down, just my reaction to the post.

Enjoy riding whatever tires you care to use.

I switched back after 20+ years on clinchers. Started adding 2oz of Orange Seal per tire (I buy the Stan's 20z bottle, use and refill with Orange Seal). My flat rate has gone down to close to zero. At this rate, I can afford to send the dead ones to the guy in CA and have him replace the tubes on ones he feels are worth it.

My driving reason is that I had an older clincher blow, come off and jam in the seatstay. At less than 25 mph. Broken collarbone, ribs and a couple of acres of road rash. Haven't fully enjoyed a fast downhill since until I went back to the sewups that I used to ride to a stop after blowouts from 45 and it wasn't a big deal. (Well, I ride sewups better than my old $18 training tires. No longer a poor racer.)

MooneyBloke 07-11-23 10:02 AM


Originally Posted by Bad Lag (Post 22944309)
NOPE!

You convinced me not to, by reminding me of all the troubles I once had with them and how happy I was to eventually get some high performance clincher tires.

I think you drew the wrong conclusion from my sermon. This was indeed the worst situation I've had with sew-ups in decades of riding them. It really boils down to doing a sloppy repair and paying a price for it. If I had carefully examined the interior of the casing when I had the tire apart initially, I might have applied a boot as I did eventually. (Two rides later, and that boot still survives. Still feels a bit lumpy on smooth pavement.) Also, with sealants like Stan's and strong waterproof boot adhesives such as E6000, repair and avoidance thereof are far easier than they were in the early eighties when I started. It is also important to bear in mind that the tire of which I wrote was a Veloflex Criterium. This was a light road racing tire, and there are sturdier sew-ups out there. I might add that having four sets of sew-up wheels, I'm somewhat committed.

I'm not here to tell you what to ride, but I'm sure there are plenty of sob stories no matter what sort of tire ridden, 79pmooney's clincher crash story as one example.

79pmooney 07-11-23 10:50 AM


Originally Posted by MooneyBloke (Post 22950036)
I think you drew the wrong conclusion from my sermon. This was indeed the worst situation I've had with sew-ups in decades of riding them. It really boils down to doing a sloppy repair and paying a price for it. If I had carefully examined the interior of the casing when I had the tire apart initially, I might have applied a boot as I did eventually. (Two rides later, and that boot still survives. Still feels a bit lumpy on smooth pavement.) Also, with sealants like Stan's and strong waterproof boot adhesives such as E6000, repair and avoidance thereof are far easier than they were in the early eighties when I started. It is also important to bear in mind that the tire of which I wrote was a Veloflex Criterium. This was a light road racing tire, and there are sturdier sew-ups out there. I might add that having four sets of sew-up wheels, I'm somewhat committed.

I'm not here to tell you what to ride, but I'm sure there are plenty of sob stories no matter what sort of tire ridden, 79pmooney's clincher crash story as one example.

Good post! And some of the new tubulars are of quality and reliability I don't recall from my decades of big miles tubular only riding. The Vittoria Corsas. Most of my past year has been on 25c and 28c G+. Few flats and snce I started adding 2 oz of latex, almost none. (First Bontranger from the Cycle Oregon mechanics after acquiring goatheads in central Washington, then Orange Seal added later. I buy the Stan's 2 oz bottles to carry on rides and just refill them from an Orange Seal bottle. As far as I can tell, the imxing of brands matters zero.

I am a big fan of Vittoria's various "G" tires. That graphene appears to make for a simply better tread. Been riding their (confusing!) Open clinchers for a few years and am really happy to report the tubulars are all of that quality, ride and reliability along with good, even stitching and well glued tape. Joys to mount and ride.

I actually wanted to post just because yesterday I went for a random fix gear ride on my Mooney, leaving with the mountain gears on. (Low gear from 2017 when I was considerably younger and stronger.) 46-14, a nice downhill gear, the ubiquitous 42-17 flat ground gear and 36-21 uphill. Decided to try McCormick Hill Road. Well, it became obvious I don't have the miles and fix gear strength to get to Mountaintop Road and Bald Peak so I stopped 2/3rds of the way up, admired the view, but it in high gear and sailed down. (Keeping it sane; the hill ends with a well into double digit blind off camber turn.) Did another 30 miles, foirst nursing the bike and body over several bumps in the big gear to have that fun roll on the other side, then back to the 42-17 and cruise.

All on the same 28c G+ tires I rode Cycle Oregon on last fall. The ribs are gone from the center of the rear tire, they weigh a little more with that latex but they still run as sweet as you could ask. Didn't note the pressure when I pumped them up but probably 88 +- 2 to 3 (I run rears 5-6 psi higher in back). Ahh! The magic carpets! And on a sweet beast in the tradition of a classic English road bike. (Well not totally classic. The brakes were unusually clean. I usually pay no attention to them but yesterday that front sparked in the sun and I kept getting reminded what great stoppers they are. (Shimano cantis that were stock on one year of Miyata 610s. So nice I swapped out the original Mafacs for them. Yesterday they got to do their work.)

So good to be back on the magic carpets (Are they still hand stitched by Persians Asians like they were 1000 years ago?)

MooneyBloke 07-11-23 05:25 PM


Originally Posted by 79pmooney (Post 22950077)
Good post! And some of the new tubulars are of quality and reliability I don't recall from my decades of big miles tubular only riding

It sounds like things are going better in Thailand than when I bought a few Vitt CX tires. I remember the tires occasionally rather lumpy, and the Vitt tubes actually being thinner and smaller, and the base tape being nearly impossible to remove without tearing. It seems as if they've cleaned up their act considerably in the last couple of decades. Even those were far better than the tires I rode in my youth. I still have a couple of ugly orange Conti Sprinters I keep around 'cos they still hold air.


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