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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

Sedgemop 07-13-23 11:37 AM

Prices are coming down on Superbes too. This is a clean one.

Facebook MI Superbe

1976 Raleigh Superbe $195 Jonesville, MI

976 Raleigh Superbe. Excellent vintage condition. Loaded. Low miles. All original including Brooks B66 leather saddle. New tires and tubes. 23" frame. 31" standover ht. Local pick-up only.

https://scontent-ord5-2.xx.fbcdn.net...YA&oe=64B489E5
https://scontent-ord5-2.xx.fbcdn.net...2A&oe=64B49FAD

https://scontent-ord5-2.xx.fbcdn.net...XA&oe=64B5AF26

1989Pre 07-13-23 05:41 PM


Originally Posted by Sedgemop (Post 22952118)
Prices are coming down on Superbes too. This is a clean one.

Facebook MI Superbe

1976 Raleigh Superbe $195 Jonesville, MI

976 Raleigh Superbe. Excellent vintage condition. Loaded. Low miles. All original including Brooks B66 leather saddle. New tires and tubes. 23" frame. 31" standover ht. Local pick-up only.

That's a lot of bike for little money. Everything you need, except for a bell and a Carradice bag. If you spend $100.00 on gas to fetch this one, you are still ahead of the game.

Sedgemop 07-13-23 07:27 PM


Originally Posted by 1989Pre (Post 22952436)
That's a lot of bike for little money. Everything you need, except for a bell and a Carradice bag. If you spend $100.00 on gas to fetch this one, you are still ahead of the game.

Yeah, with it being out in rural MI, it might just sit there till I'm headed that way next time. We will see.

1989Pre 07-15-23 12:27 PM

I rode a little under seventeen miles today, pretty flat territory, over-cast with a slight mist, warm, humid. I'm glad I was on a bike and not out in the woods, battling mosquitoes. https://www.mapmyride.com/routes/vie...ite/1057691057

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...87c1765f8b.jpg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...709310753b.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...ab5e5ca58e.jpg

gna 07-15-23 12:56 PM


Originally Posted by Sedgemop (Post 22952118)
Prices are coming down on Superbes too. This is a clean one.

Facebook MI Superbe

1976 Raleigh Superbe $195 Jonesville, MI

976 Raleigh Superbe. Excellent vintage condition. Loaded. Low miles. All original including Brooks B66 leather saddle. New tires and tubes. 23" frame. 31" standover ht. Local pick-up only.

https://scontent-ord5-2.xx.fbcdn.net...YA&oe=64B489E5
https://scontent-ord5-2.xx.fbcdn.net...2A&oe=64B49FAD

https://scontent-ord5-2.xx.fbcdn.net...XA&oe=64B5AF26

I'd buy that if I were closer.
Front wheel is in backwards--Dynohub should be on right post '54.

Sedgemop 07-15-23 01:09 PM


Originally Posted by gna (Post 22954108)
I'd buy that if I were closer.

I hear you on that. I'm headed that way later this year. I'll probably pick it up if it's still around.

nlerner 07-17-23 01:12 PM

Had some time over the weekend to make rideable the latest IGH project: a ‘73 Condor Italia w/ 700c wheels and a Sturmey-Archer FM rear hub:

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...27331b7a8.jpeg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...0b7e46285.jpeg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8603f3383.jpeg

I had this frame newly powder coated a few weeks ago as the previous finish was pretty poorly done. Headbadge was made by @rhm from a photo. I still need to adjust tension on the gear cable but just a test ride reminded me how well this bike fits me. Just about 23 lbs as shown. Yellow fizik tape might be too bold of a fashion statement.

Ged117 07-17-23 01:21 PM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 22956109)
Had some time over the weekend to make rideable the latest IGH project: a Ď73 Condor Italia w/ 700c wheels and a Sturmey-Archer FM rear hub:

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...27331b7a8.jpeg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...0b7e46285.jpeg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8603f3383.jpeg

I had this frame newly powder coated a few weeks ago as the previous finish was pretty poorly done. Headbadge was made by @rhm from a photo. I still need to adjust tension on the gear cable but just a test ride reminded me how well this bike fits me. Just about 23 lbs as shown. Yellow fizik tape might be too bold of a fashion statement.

It's fantastic, Neal - looks great. Tell me a bit about the TA crank - I'm thinking of using one I have for my Sun Wasp and transferring its modern single to my old Triumph - how many teeth on the ring? Bottom bracket? I'm using 48 x 20 with my FM. I really like that hub.

nlerner 07-17-23 03:16 PM


Originally Posted by Ged117 (Post 22956119)
It's fantastic, Neal - looks great. Tell me a bit about the TA crank - I'm thinking of using one I have for my Sun Wasp and transferring its modern single to my old Triumph - how many teeth on the ring? Bottom bracket? I'm using 48 x 20 with my FM. I really like that hub.

Thanks! That crankset is a TA Professional 3-arm: https://velobase.com/ViewComponent.a...115&AbsPos=417
Iím running it with a 42-tooth ring, which lets me run a 18-t rear cog and still have pretty low gears. Those rings are 116bcd, but chainring holes (and bolts) seem proprietary to this model of TA (i.e., bolts from a pro-vis-5 wonít work). Iíve had a few of these chainsets over the years, and they came with 52/42t combo, but Iíve also seen fairly frequently 44t and 45t rings (and I have one of the former).

Bottom bracket is TA with a mod. 344 TA spindle, which is the standard for a double. If I had the spindle for a single in the bin, I probably would have tried to use it, but the ďshelvesĒ:for the inner ring protrude a fair amount in toward the frame, so I figured I was better off with the one I used. Chain line is good enough.

Road Fan 07-17-23 03:22 PM

I understand the potential tradeoff in not matching teh chainlines, is throwing chains. Seen any of this yet?

Salubrious 07-17-23 03:33 PM


Originally Posted by Road Fan (Post 22956253)
I understand the potential tradeoff in not matching teh chainlines, is throwing chains. Seen any of this yet?

If the chainline doesn't match up, with the heavy single-speed chain the driveline will have noise as the teeth engage.

clubman 07-17-23 05:51 PM


Originally Posted by 1989Pre (Post 22954089)
I rode a little under seventeen miles today, pretty flat territory, over-cast with a slight mist, warm, humid. I'm glad I was on a bike and not out in the woods, battling mosquitoes. https://www.mapmyride.com/routes/vie...ite/1057691057



https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...ab5e5ca58e.jpg

Very nice. Looks like a circa 1960 Canadian model, which isn't a stretch as you're in Maine. Does the serial number start with RC prefix?

1989Pre 07-17-23 09:12 PM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 22956346)
Very nice. Looks like a circa 1960 Canadian model, which isn't a stretch as you're in Maine. Does the serial number start with RC prefix?

Thank you. I appreciate that. No, it doesn't. the number on the seat cluster is 89790LN.

Ged117 07-18-23 07:11 AM

Not too different from my temp set up nlerner . I have a TA Professional from my Raleigh Competition laying in the parts bin - but I only have the spindle for a triple (for the TA Specialiste I'm going to install on that Comp one day). I traded the original spindle. I may just swap out the alloy chainwheel for a stainless steel 42T / 18T cog on the FM to gain a more C&V look instead and even out the gear inches. I like your range, it's perfect for my area.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...dafca7850c.png

nlerner 07-18-23 08:22 AM

I took the Condor for a more rigorous test ride today. Chain line was fine—no chain jump and no rattles. Best thing was that all four gears worked after some mid-ride adjustment. This was a relatively hilly course (about 1k feet of climbing over 16 miles), so a good test for the low gears. The problem I need to address is that the BB loosened up. It’s possible I left out a bearing ball on the drive side cup!

Poor visibility today due to the smoke from Canadian wildfires. Can you do something about that, @Ged117?

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...cf9e01211.jpeg

SirMike1983 07-18-23 08:31 AM

It's the fire smoke again - we have it here too. It has that tar smell where it's like the neighbor has some railroad ties or old telephone pole sections on the fire.

nlerner 07-18-23 09:25 AM


Originally Posted by SirMike1983 (Post 22956762)
It's the fire smoke again - we have it here too. It has that tar smell where it's like the neighbor has some railroad ties or old telephone pole sections on the fire.

Well, itís quite possible your neighbors are doing that, too!

Ged117 07-19-23 07:56 AM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 22956755)
I took the Condor for a more rigorous test ride today. Chain line was fineóno chain jump and no rattles. Best thing was that all four gears worked after some mid-ride adjustment. This was a relatively hilly course (about 1k feet of climbing over 16 miles), so a good test for the low gears. The problem I need to address is that the BB loosened up. Itís possible I left out a bearing ball on the drive side cup!

Poor visibility today due to the smoke from Canadian wildfires. Can you do something about that, @Ged117?

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...cf9e01211.jpeg

It's a nice feeling once you've got all four gears working. I find with the FM that shifting into lower gears is where I need to be careful and deliberate with my pedal action to light-touch the hub to where I want it to go. Does your trigger shifter hold bottom gear securely?

Hah! Yesterday we had some smoke too. I think eastern North American summers from here on out will have recurring smokey days more often than not with each passing summer, varying by year of course. The country is dry, and most of the fires occur in low populated areas of Canada, or where nobody lives at all, and for the most part are monitored / allowed to burn to a certain extent rather than build up ever more tinder. My relatives in BC often remind us of how many fires the west sees each year, but its certainly unsettling, especially with the global heat records being broken everywhere.

This Condor of yours looks great! It is giving me ideas for my Wasp as its paint is quite decayed. I might search out some white Bluemels too:

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4a7bcae838.jpg

Salubrious 07-19-23 09:13 AM


Originally Posted by Ged117 (Post 22957769)
It's a nice feeling once you've got all four gears working. I find with the FM that shifting into lower gears is where I need to be careful and deliberate with my pedal action to light-touch the hub to where I want it to go. Does your trigger shifter hold bottom gear securely?

A four speed shifter is easy to sort out if it has this problem.

Take a look at the pawl when its in low gear. It should be flush with the ratchet edge. It its not sinking in properly here's some things you can do:

With a small bladed screwdriver you can lift the spring up and to the side of the shifter body where it can perch. Then you can lift the pawl up and if its end has rounded, you can file it flat so it will stop the ratchet properly. With the spring lifted up, its easy to use a needle nose pliers to bend it slightly so when it bears on the pawl it will exert more force. Of course the shifter needs to be properly greased (and not bent up) so everything moves easily.

You don't have to remove the shifter from the bike for this and it might only take a minute or two to sort it out.

nlerner 07-19-23 09:21 AM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 22957871)
A four speed shifter is easy to sort out if it has this problem.

Take a look at the pawl when its in low gear. It should be flush with the ratchet edge. It its not sinking in properly here's some things you can do:

With a small bladed screwdriver you can lift the spring up and to the side of the shifter body where it can perch. Then you can lift the pawl up and if its end has rounded, you can file it flat so it will stop the ratchet properly. With the spring lifted up, its easy to use a needle nose pliers to bend it slightly so when it bears on the pawl it will exert more force. Of course the shifter needs to be properly greased (and not bent up) so everything moves easily.

You don't have to remove the shifter from the bike for this and it might only take a minute or two to sort it out.

Thanks for that--I certainly have had problems of 4-speed shifters not engaging lowest gear (or more likely slipping out of gear) as it seems to really take a lot of force. Fwiw, I purchased this unit from SJS Cycles as an experiment in 4-speed shifting: https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/gear-shi...ifter/?geoc=US

It'll arrive next week some time, so I'll report back later in August as to the experiment's success.

Salubrious 07-19-23 10:07 AM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 22957882)
Thanks for that--I certainly have had problems of 4-speed shifters not engaging lowest gear (or more likely slipping out of gear) as it seems to really take a lot of force. Fwiw, I purchased this unit from SJS Cycles as an experiment in 4-speed shifting: https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/gear-shi...ifter/?geoc=US

It'll arrive next week some time, so I'll report back later in August as to the experiment's success.

4 Speeds can slip in low gear if they have been abused. I think this has to do with the shifter dropping out of low while the hub is under torque. That can damage the low gear pawls in the hub- it uses a two sets. But the pawls are the same as in the 3-speed IIRC and changed out easily enough if you have the tool to take off the drive side bearing.

sunburst 07-19-23 05:12 PM

My "new" Royal Scot - need axle nuts
 
A friend gave me this Royal Scot recently and I've been trying to get it road worthy. Disclaimer: I do mostly French restorations, so English issues, especially IGH's, are new to me.

I cleaned it up yesterday and got the shifting working but the current problem is a stripped non-driveside/left rear axle nut. I have been through my collection of nuts and nothing fits.
So the questions are: what size, and where can I buy two (one spare)? Believe me, I've already googled this.
The axle measures ~10mm, which I had assumed was 3/8". But I have read this nut is 13/32", 26tpi. Correct?
I would also like a couple spare front axle nuts, which measure closer to 8mm? and that translates to ...?

Three other questions:
1) How to date? The serial # is 657, and the Sturmey-Archer has "74 1" on it. 1974?
2) What type and how much oil to add to the hubs?
3) Why don't the front hub cones have locknuts!?! Maybe I'm missing something but when I tighten the axle nuts, the cone turns. Easily solved with a cone wrench but I don't have a good feel for cone adjustment this way. I noticed it on this bike and another similar vintage Raleigh that I was helping someone with last week. As it turns out, both our bikes have stripped rear axle nuts.

Here it is. Previous owner made a few changes, mainly stem and bars. The seatpost is obviously not stock, but it's temporary as I need a setback post anyway.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...cffa5989da.jpg

bluesteak 07-19-23 07:14 PM


Originally Posted by sunburst (Post 22958352)
A friend gave me this Royal Scot recently and I've been trying to get it road worthy. Disclaimer: I do mostly French restorations, so English issues, especially IGH's, are new to me.

I cleaned it up yesterday and got the shifting working but the current problem is a stripped non-driveside/left rear axle nut. I have been through my collection of nuts and nothing fits.
So the questions are: what size, and where can I buy two (one spare)? Believe me, I've already googled this.
The axle measures ~10mm, which I had assumed was 3/8". But I have read this nut is 13/32", 26tpi. Correct?
I would also like a couple spare front axle nuts, which measure closer to 8mm? and that translates to ...?

Three other questions:
1) How to date? The serial # is 657, and the Sturmey-Archer has "74 1" on it. 1974?
2) What type and how much oil to add to the hubs?
3) Why don't the front hub cones have locknuts!?! Maybe I'm missing something but when I tighten the axle nuts, the cone turns. Easily solved with a cone wrench but I don't have a good feel for cone adjustment this way. I noticed it on this bike and another similar vintage Raleigh that I was helping someone with last week. As it turns out, both our bikes have stripped rear axle nuts.

Here it is. Previous owner made a few changes, mainly stem and bars. The seatpost is obviously not stock, but it's temporary as I need a setback post anyway.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...cffa5989da.jpg

13/32 26tpi is correct. Bike shops should have them, and there are sellers on eBay.

I use SAE 30 oil in my hubs. If the hub works a couple drops occasionally should be fine.

The original front axle should have a stop for the right side(drive side) cone. The cone should be tight against that stop. You adjust the left side cone with a cone wrench, with the wheel on the bike and lock it down with the outside wheel nut. Orientation of the wheel is critical.

if you donít have the original axle you will need a locknut. The axle is 5/16 26 TPI.

I would assume 1974 unless there is a clue it is older.

Salubrious 07-20-23 11:03 AM


Originally Posted by sunburst (Post 22958352)
A friend gave me this Royal Scot recently and I've been trying to get it road worthy. Disclaimer: I do mostly French restorations, so English issues, especially IGH's, are new to me.

You got good advice above.
To get the brakes working to best advantage, its often helpful to have the calipers set a bit wide so you have to pull the lever a bit to get engagement. This increases the mechanical advantage. If you have decent brake pads (Kool Stop) they can stop quite well. The weakness is steel rims don't stop well in rain. The calipers look sketchy, but they are quite adjustable. If you have troubles getting them to center over the rim properly, it might be because the spring has lost springiness over the decades. You can easily release one side and bend it out to increase spring tension.

sunburst 07-20-23 03:58 PM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 22959088)
You got good advice above.
To get the brakes working to best advantage, its often helpful to have the calipers set a bit wide so you have to pull the lever a bit to get engagement. This increases the mechanical advantage. If you have decent brake pads (Kool Stop) they can stop quite well. The weakness is steel rims don't stop well in rain. The calipers look sketchy, but they are quite adjustable. If you have troubles getting them to center over the rim properly, it might be because the spring has lost springiness over the decades. You can easily release one side and bend it out to increase spring tension.

The brakes were setup this way, and felt and worked so well that I wasn't tempted to change it. I was surprised at the feel given the calipers look so cheap. Good to know this is the preferred setup. Having the extra pad distance from the rim is great, especially as the rear rim is far from true. I improved that somewhat but it took a pretty hard hit at some point in its life, but I made some progress.


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