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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

capnjonny 10-07-16 07:30 PM

My new Raleigh 3 speed
 
I just pulled a Raleigh 3 speed from the trash pile and am not sure what to do with it.

I looked up the serial no. and it is a Nottingham 1978 model . The only decals say Raleigh on each side of the down tube, 20 / 30 Steel, and a decal on the top of the top tube that says made in England


I stripped it down yesterday. I was surprised to find that both the seat post and stem were easy to get out. Also the non drive (left) side crank cotter came right out. Must have been changed at some point and never tightened. I took the frame to the bike shop where we have a cotter press and the drive side cotter came out with no drama either. I will be reusing both unless I change the crank to square tapered. The brakes are side pull Weinman 730 front and 810 rear.

So now I need to decide what to do with it.

As found it was very rusty but not structurally unsound. I have cleaned off a lot of rust from the frame using navel jelly , sand paper, steel wool, Brasso , and tinfoil. The original silver paint is basically poor to dismal but the Raleigh Decals are still good as is the Green at the head and seat tubes The frame tubes are now grey semi metallic, with rust staining coming through the paint but I have succeeded in getting rid of about 75% of the original rust.

As for the wheels, both black wall tires look new or very little use with no cracking in the side walls. The rear rim was not very rusty except what was under the rim tape. I used navel jelly and a wire brush to remove almost all the corrosion. The front wheel is much worse . the exterior still feels like a cheese grater even after hitting with a wire brush . The inside under the rim tape is also corroded. I am not sure it is going to clean up very well.

So now what should I do ?


Totally stock ,
Frame as is , spray over the rust and bad paint with semi gloss clear? lube and oil , cables, brake pads . later maybe, new front wheel .

Beautify and lighten
Sand blast and repaint frame, fenders .(I can do both myself)
Aluminum handle bars ( I have a north road style bar with the ends going straight back )
Brooks seat, B17
new wheels
replace cranks and spindle with square taper , with forged alum arms and aluminum pedals.
new decals

Any other interesting possibilities?

I will definitely replace the stock drive sprocket with a bigger one to give me a low gear.

For now while I am building it I will keep the Brooks mattress seat and be on the lookout for a B17 or maybe a Springer seat.

Are the Weinman side pulls any good? Are they forged?


Jonny

BigChief 10-07-16 09:04 PM


Originally Posted by capnjonny (Post 19108924)
I just pulled a Raleigh 3 speed from the trash pile and am not sure what to do with it.

I looked up the serial no. and it is a Nottingham 1978 model . The only decals say Raleigh on each side of the down tube, 20 / 30 Steel, and a decal on the top of the top tube that says made in England


I stripped it down yesterday. I was surprised to find that both the seat post and stem were easy to get out. Also the non drive (left) side crank cotter came right out. Must have been changed at some point and never tightened. I took the frame to the bike shop where we have a cotter press and the drive side cotter came out with no drama either. I will be reusing both unless I change the crank to square tapered. The brakes are side pull Weinman 730 front and 810 rear.

So now I need to decide what to do with it.

As found it was very rusty but not structurally unsound. I have cleaned off a lot of rust from the frame using navel jelly , sand paper, steel wool, Brasso , and tinfoil. The original silver paint is basically poor to dismal but the Raleigh Decals are still good as is the Green at the head and seat tubes The frame tubes are now grey semi metallic, with rust staining coming through the paint but I have succeeded in getting rid of about 75% of the original rust.

As for the wheels, both black wall tires look new or very little use with no cracking in the side walls. The rear rim was not very rusty except what was under the rim tape. I used navel jelly and a wire brush to remove almost all the corrosion. The front wheel is much worse . the exterior still feels like a cheese grater even after hitting with a wire brush . The inside under the rim tape is also corroded. I am not sure it is going to clean up very well.

So now what should I do ?


Totally stock ,
Frame as is , spray over the rust and bad paint with semi gloss clear? lube and oil , cables, brake pads . later maybe, new front wheel .

Beautify and lighten
Sand blast and repaint frame, fenders .(I can do both myself)
Aluminum handle bars ( I have a north road style bar with the ends going straight back )
Brooks seat, B17
new wheels
replace cranks and spindle with square taper , with forged alum arms and aluminum pedals.
new decals

Any other interesting possibilities?

I will definitely replace the stock drive sprocket with a bigger one to give me a low gear.

For now while I am building it I will keep the Brooks mattress seat and be on the lookout for a B17 or maybe a Springer seat.

Are the Weinman side pulls any good? Are they forged?


Jonny

You could either just repack the bearings, clean it up and leave it an almost free upright townie or, if it's fun for you, do a restore or customization. The Raleigh stem clamp is 15/16" so your alloy northroads won't fit. It wouldn't be hard to find a 22.2 quill stem for the 1" bars. Me, I like project bikes. It's fun for me rescue un-rideable wrecks and turn them into something fun and usable. There's all sorts of approaches you could take.

Utech22 10-08-16 04:35 AM

I bought the SA hub from England and shipped it to Jamaica where the bicycle is.

http://i1053.photobucket.com/albums/...psos2kseoh.jpg

Utech22 10-08-16 04:38 AM

The modified SA 3 speed hub:
- more dog pawls
- gear block added


http://i1053.photobucket.com/albums/...pstetyyg4k.jpg
http://i1053.photobucket.com/albums/...psyyn5pfhy.jpg
http://i1053.photobucket.com/albums/...psjltwf3z3.jpg
http://i1053.photobucket.com/albums/...psyp9pnfct.jpg

JaccoW 10-08-16 09:50 AM

*Double post*

JaccoW 10-08-16 09:51 AM


Originally Posted by Utech22 (Post 19109359)
The modified SA 3 speed hub:
- more dog pawls
- gear block added

That is impressive... in a mad scientist kind of way. :lol:

What does it do?

agmetal 10-08-16 09:57 AM

This is awesome, I must know more

JaccoW 10-08-16 10:39 AM

http://i.imgur.com/IbasKGsh.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/z9uhxFFh.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/sSpHiIMh.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/D3Zcgbxh.jpg

With the exception of a 16T cog (the 28T will arrive next week) all of this was with stuff that had laying around.

Going to take it for a testdrive first to see how this feels but it feels fast. :D

Moved around some of the cables and stripped them where the original braze-ons would make more sense. Looks really good to just have cables running around.
Took some fiddling around to make sure the rear derailleur didn't commit suicide. It had a tendency to dive into the spokes. :twitchy:

EDIT: Felt really good. Quite smooth most of the time and it is fun having a bit more top speed. Only thing that needs some work is the chain. I didn't shorten it yet so when I hit a bump it fell off and the bike tried to eat it.
I'll be sure to shorten it when the 28T cog arrives.
That and perhaps I need a taller stem. This one is a bit aggressive.

Stadjer 10-08-16 12:01 PM


Originally Posted by JaccoW (Post 19109827)

That and perhaps I need a taller stem. This one is a bit aggressive.

Maybe you could just flip the handlebars?

I owned one myself, probably a slightly younger model, a 5 speed derailleur with upright handlebars. 20 years before my dad used to have one simular to that, also a model a couple of years younger and probably called a 'trimfiets' back then, and I did the maintenance and repairs. Not much, because Gazelle were so well made back then, especially considering the low weight they are extremely durable. And fast, very low internal drag, good geometry for a high cruising speed, handlebars were a bit low for my personal preference and head tubes can't be too slack for me, but that's personal and this design had me doubting that preference.

scale 10-08-16 02:26 PM

headset washer?
 
Can some one tell me if there is supposed to be a big 1 inch washer/spacer on the headset?

the top race on my superbe has none.......just the bird light bracket and then the top nut.

IF i recall correctly the fork wasnt keyed for a washer of that type.

It just seems odd that it would together........top race........bird bracket.....top nut. The bird bracket is a bit rounded and doesnt seem to sit flush with the top rack which makes me think there is supposed to be a spacer in between there.

It is making it really tricky to get the play out of the headset and get it adjusted properly. I am wondering if the previous owner had it apart and missed a piece putting it back together.

noglider 10-08-16 03:02 PM

@Utech22, why did you add more pawls?

BigChief 10-08-16 04:44 PM


Originally Posted by scale (Post 19110256)
Can some one tell me if there is supposed to be a big 1 inch washer/spacer on the headset?

the top race on my superbe has none.......just the bird light bracket and then the top nut.

IF i recall correctly the fork wasnt keyed for a washer of that type.

It just seems odd that it would together........top race........bird bracket.....top nut. The bird bracket is a bit rounded and doesnt seem to sit flush with the top rack which makes me think there is supposed to be a spacer in between there.

It is making it really tricky to get the play out of the headset and get it adjusted properly. I am wondering if the previous owner had it apart and missed a piece putting it back together.

The models without headlight brackets had washers in their place, but there's no washer otherwise. If you're having trouble adjusting, the headset, there's some other problem.

thumpism 10-08-16 05:46 PM

See anything familiar in this photo? Did not know their expertise extended to motorcycles.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...lve_engine.jpg

elcraft 10-08-16 08:45 PM

How did you add the the gear bloc? What is the chain widthon your added gear block?

JaccoW 10-09-16 11:45 AM


Originally Posted by Stadjer (Post 19109972)
Maybe you could just flip the handlebars?

I owned one myself, probably a slightly younger model, a 5 speed derailleur with upright handlebars. 20 years before my dad used to have one simular to that, also a model a couple of years younger and probably called a 'trimfiets' back then, and I did the maintenance and repairs. Not much, because Gazelle were so well made back then, especially considering the low weight they are extremely durable. And fast, very low internal drag, good geometry for a high cruising speed, handlebars were a bit low for my personal preference and head tubes can't be too slack for me, but that's personal and this design had me doubting that preference.

I'm guessing you had something like a Gazelle Tour de France:
http://i.imgur.com/xzuKURNh.jpg
As far as I can tell that is the sister model. Same color and everything, just different front fork and gearing.

http://i.imgur.com/TM26quqh.jpg
I replaced the original seatpost with a taller one so I have been playing with the right angle. Kind of like the look of the flipped bars but I just need it to be a bit higher and a bit more forward.


Originally Posted by elcraft (Post 19110857)
How did you add the the gear bloc? What is the chain widthon your added gear block?

Two possible methods:

Originally Posted by JaccoW (Post 19097768)
Apparently the simple version is putting two dished sprockets side-to-side with a hanger derailleur, but apparently you can also do it using the older threaded drivers (up to 5 additional sprockets) or a Dacon hub-derailleur converter.

- Sheldon Brown - Hybrid gears
- Lovely Bicycle - Hybrid gearing in the wild, 6-speed
- Classiclightweights - Hybrid HD

My guess is he used an old-style threaded driver (Part K507) and screwed on a derailleur.

Utech22 10-09-16 11:56 AM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 19110326)
@Utech22, why did you add more pawls?

They dog pawls gives a ticking sound, to increasing the amount increases the sound, creating a melody.

I will create a video and upload it for a better idea;

Utech22 10-09-16 12:01 PM


Originally Posted by elcraft (Post 19110857)
How did you add the the gear bloc? What is the chain widthon your added gear block?

I removed the entire inner section of the block, cut the inner section that is screwed-on, to a size that is suitable for the hub and welded it to the block itself - all done at the machine shop. The reason for the to not allow the gear block to spin just as before.

Hope that you understand.

Utech22 10-09-16 12:07 PM


Originally Posted by JaccoW (Post 19109733)
That is impressive... in a mad scientist kind of way. :lol:

What does it do?

See my previous answer :thumb:

JaccoW 10-09-16 12:14 PM


Originally Posted by Utech22 (Post 19111716)
See my previous answer :thumb:

Looking forward to the video. :thumb:

agmetal 10-09-16 12:15 PM


Originally Posted by Utech22 (Post 19111696)
They dog pawls gives a ticking sound, to increasing the amount increases the sound, creating a melody.

I will create a video and upload it for a better idea;

So the only difference is in the sound? It doesn't give you any more points of engagement or any kind of performance improvement?

agmetal 10-09-16 05:14 PM


Originally Posted by bazil4696 (Post 19092088)
I decided I liked the machined shifter cable pulley so much, that I'd like to see what it looks like in brass.
I included a shot of the stainless one I presented last week.
I'm tending to go with the brass one, because it makes the gold pinstriping pop.
Brass one is mounted on my '73 Raleigh superbe, the stainless one on my '71 Raleigh Superbe

I love this, how much would you charge to make them for other people?

Dsprok 10-09-16 05:29 PM

A Spanner

Originally Posted by auchencrow (Post 17460587)


Loose Chain 10-09-16 06:52 PM

My new Hercules:

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...ps0h79edcr.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...psygrklkjp.jpg

J

Utech22 10-09-16 07:05 PM


Originally Posted by agmetal (Post 19111732)
So the only difference is in the sound? It doesn't give you any more points of engagement or any kind of performance improvement?

Persons competes for the best ticking hubs and the loudest hubs.
The hub comes with 4 dog pawls, persons use as much as 14 (10+4)

gster 10-09-16 08:53 PM

1960 Superbe Update
 
4 Attachment(s)
Attachment 539756

Attachment 539757

Attachment 539758

Attachment 539759


I decided not to paint this bike for the time being. I was anxious to get it back together and take advantage of the warm fall weather. Costs to date:
Bike purchase @ $50.00
New Tires @ $32.00
New Cables @ $18.00
New Brake Pads @ $6.00
Brake lever ferrule @ .40 cents (Outrageous!)
The chain ring crank needs to be straightened and I'll repaint later.
Saddle is OK for now but will look for a vintage leather one.
I've also replaced both calipers with "newer" versions to do away with the proprietary earlier ones.
Took it for a shakedown ride today and have a few adjustments to make.


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