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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

Velocivixen 07-06-17 07:18 PM

I wonder if anyone knows a few details about what appears to be a 1971 Raleigh Twenty. It's all original. I'm the second owner. Front hub has an oil hole with a band. I've never seen this on a Twenty.
The pedal reflectors, which are built in, are white & not amber/yellow. I did not ask the seller where his grandparents bought them, but they have (406) 20" wheels - for the American market.

treebound 07-07-17 07:27 AM


Originally Posted by dweenk (Post 19699911)
@treebound

The fork lock would have been on the left side of the fork. The paint looks to be very good in the photos, and you have a coaster brake hub. I am thinking that the leather saddle may have been a dealer upgrade.

Due to the other items the gentleman had, I could easily assume the saddle was either upgraded when purchased or added later.

I'm fairly sure I have a spare Raleigh cottered crank or crank nuts stored away someplace, just need time to find them.

Paint should clean up nicely, but that will wait until i decide if I'm fixing it, and if so then the clean and regrease will happen once I have some new tires in hand for the bike. The last few years have been kind of in turmoil but will hopefully settle down so I can get back into the cycling mode.

Does anyone have a source for the fork side cap piece? Otherwise I'll have to try forming one out of a soda can or a piece of wood and paint it silver to stuff into the hole.

Edit: I'm also toying around with the idea of replacing the leather on the saddle. I found several older threads on the site here where others have done their own leather work. I'll need to look over the saddle framework real close first to ensure it will be worth re-leathering.

Velocivixen 07-07-17 07:38 AM

I ran across a pair of Raleigh "thimbles" on eBay once. They're out there.

treebound 07-07-17 09:01 AM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 19701721)
I ran across a pair of Raleigh "thimbles" on eBay once. They're out there.

Thanks for the terminology, there are two current thimble auctions, got them on the watch list for now.

Velocivixen 07-07-17 10:05 AM

Prior to having a Twenty powder coated I attempted to carefully remove them. Be aware that the metal is soft. I didn't want to marr them, so I just left them in. Looking back I could have worked some fishing line or dental floss between the edge of the "thimble" and frame to get it out. Oh well.

Anyway, they're very soft, so be mindful when installing.

w1gfh 07-07-17 10:46 AM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 19700945)
I wonder if anyone knows a few details about what appears to be a 1971 Raleigh Twenty. It's all original. I'm the second owner. Front hub has an oil hole with a band. I've never seen this on a Twenty.

The pedal reflectors, which are built in, are white & not amber/yellow. I did not ask the seller where his grandparents bought them, but they have (406) 20" wheels - for the American market.

My Twenty has a 1969 TCW hub and a 1970 serial number. The front hub (original) has the oil hole with the band. I upgraded the old steel rims to alloy.
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7789/...24728193_o.jpgIMAG1004 by w1gfh, on Flickr

Pedals are not original so can't say. The original steel rims and tires were 47-406. What looked like an "S" was embossed on the rear wheel rim. I thought it was "for Schwinn", but not sure.
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/421/1...1a849acb_o.jpgRear 20" wheel - "S" embossed on rim by w1gfh, on Flickr

gster 07-08-17 06:20 AM

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arty dave 07-09-17 05:40 AM

I've been having a fun read of this sub-forum, have a lot more insight into the humble 3-speed, and lots of tips towards what I'm doing with my '63 DL-1...sigh...got to about the 250th page when the photobucket ban set in :( not quite half way!!! :( grrr :(

I did a fair bit of dismantling today, managed to catch every single headset bearing - weirdly the crown race just slipped off after removing a bit of hardened grease. After cleanup it sits with no snugness at the base of the fork tube. Can't see any wear, and I didn't feel any looseness in the handling on test rides.

So much spider vein type rust has spread underneath the paintwork right down to the metal, I'm going to have to re-paint. It's at least 50% of all the paintwork. Next jobs - cotter pin removal and straightening one of the fork legs.

I did end up buying a '65 front drum and a sturmey archer wheel, so also have to work out some measurements for ordering spokes. Metal pulley wheel is in the post! :)

nlerner 07-10-17 04:20 PM

Just picked up this old boy: a '68 Sports (according to the rear hub).

The good: it's a 23" frame (i.e., my size), tires and tubes might be salvageable, rust is very minimal, rims are true, crank arms are properly aligned (so cotters aren't worn), rear reflector is intact, Concord, MA, license plate.
The bad: Wrong color chain guard! Missing the three speed trigger and cable (though clamps are there), paint is quite faded and scratched, that saddle!
Overall: For $40, a good project for this year's Clunker Challenge contest, and something to keep me busy and in a cool basement during the hot summer.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4233/...9db1df5b_c.jpg

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4216/...4cd59283_c.jpg

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4242/...e5a83f9a_c.jpg

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4208/...59bffdba_c.jpg

Velocivixen 07-10-17 04:55 PM

I like it! It's sort of quirky like that.

arty dave 07-10-17 06:32 PM

I agree! The black chain cover makes it somehow look 'classy' like the 2-tone sports models. Ties in nicely with the black grips and saddle. Maybe paint the head-tube black?
What is that saddle? Is it one of those weird rubber compound ones?

nlerner 07-10-17 06:44 PM


Originally Posted by arty dave (Post 19709652)
I agree! The black chain cover makes it somehow look 'classy' like the 2-tone sports models. Ties in nicely with the black grips and saddle. Maybe paint the head-tube black?
What is that saddle? Is it one of those weird rubber compound ones?

I like that painting idea! That would make the wrong chain guard look not so wrong.

The saddle is indeed one of those weird rubber ones--it has a logo, but I need to read it more carefully. I definitely need to swap in something else.

Dewey101 07-11-17 06:43 AM

I'm interested in towing a Chariot child trailer with a '73 Raleigh Sports, but like an earlier poster I am finding the Sturmey AW axle too short to fit the left side rear axle nut over the trailer hitch cup. The Thule hitch adapter for Shimano IGH is an extension nut threaded to 3/8" 26tpi which I understand ought to fit on a Sturmey AW axle, Thule says to torque the nut to 40nm but the Sturmey AW manual advises to torque the nut to 26nm. I'm inclined to follow Thule's safety guidance but am a novice and wonder what might be the effect on the Sturmey of having over-torqued the left rear axle nut?

DQRider 07-11-17 07:03 AM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 19709680)
I like that painting idea! That would make the wrong chain guard look not so wrong.

The saddle is indeed one of those weird rubber ones--it has a logo, but I need to read it more carefully. I definitely need to swap in something else.

Well hey, just glue some cheese cloth over it and you have a DIY Brooks Cambium! :D



noglider 07-11-17 09:17 AM

@Dewey101, if you overtorque the axle nut, you will strip it. In fact, it's surprisingly easy to do this. It's annoying, but it's also a design feature. They make the nut out of soft metal deliberately so that you can't strip the threads on the axle.

Dewey101 07-11-17 09:28 AM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 19710820)
@Dewey101, if you overtorque the axle nut, you will strip it. In fact, it's surprisingly easy to do this. It's annoying, but it's also a design feature. They make the nut out of soft metal deliberately so that you can't strip the threads on the axle.

Thanks for your advice @noglider, so I could potentially strip the thread off the Sturmey axle if I attempted to tighten the Thule nut to 40nm?

noglider 07-11-17 09:32 AM


Originally Posted by Dewey101 (Post 19710843)
Thanks for your advice noglider, so I could potentially strip the thread off the Sturmey axle if I attempted to tighten the Thule nut to 40nm?

No, I'm saying they make it impossible to strip the axle by making the nut vulnerable to stripping. You will strip the nut. I don't use a torque wrench, so I don't know how much force it takes to strip the nut, but it happens if I try to make the nut as tight as I make it on other hubs. I have learned to torque more gently on Sturmey Archer hubs. I know how tight to make it, but I haven't calibrated the effort. Buy a few spares, either to learn the limit or in case you strip yours.

clubman 07-11-17 10:16 AM

If you don't have enough axle thread you likely will strip the nut. Maybe there's small spacers you can remove from each side? (not the serrated axle locking washers) In my motorcycle experience, 40 nm is very tight so I would cheat towards the SA spec. As long as you've got the safety strap attached of course.

Dewey101 07-11-17 10:16 AM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 19710855)
No, I'm saying they make it impossible to strip the axle by making the nut vulnerable to stripping...Buy a few spares, either to learn the limit or in case you strip yours.

I ordered a spare left axle nut from Harris because the current one is in poor shape and I foresaw the potential for the nut to come off the end of the axle if attached over the hitch cup - I'm hoping the Thule extender nut will solve this problem so fingers crossed I don't strip the axle thread.

noglider 07-11-17 10:18 AM

The axle is made of good, hard metal and isn't prone to stripping.

Dewey101 07-11-17 10:24 AM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 19710972)
In my motorcycle experience, 40 nm is very tight so I would cheat towards the SA spec. As long as you've got the safety strap attached of course.

Thanks @clubman, I think I should start with the higher Thule recommended torque setting, absolutely I will use the safety strap as well, and see how it goes on a test ride with a 30lb weight in the trailer before towing anybody.

Dewey101 07-12-17 05:03 PM

I cannot get the Thule hitch adapter for Shimano IGH extension nut to fit on the Sturmey axle despite being threaded to 3/8" 26tpi so it does not work. I don't want to replace the axle and the spare axle nut arrived from Harris so I will just carry that in case.

BigChief 07-12-17 07:44 PM


Originally Posted by Dewey101 (Post 19714422)
I cannot get the Thule hitch adapter for Shimano IGH extension nut to fit on the Sturmey axle despite being threaded to 3/8" 26tpi so it does not work. I don't want to replace the axle and the spare axle nut arrived from Harris so I will just carry that in case.

Why not replace the 5 3/4" axle with a 6 1/4"? I think that would be the easiest way, although you would also have to find the longer indicator HSA 126 to go with it.

thumpism 07-14-17 05:42 AM

Sorry to interrupt the axle discussion. Here's a nice looking 23" on the local CL. I also checked CL for a dozen cities on a recent driving trip to Illinois and back and I found several nice ones that I may post here.

https://richmond.craigslist.org/bik/6210568234.html

1973 Raleigh Sports 3-Speed Men's Bicycle - $120 (Museum District)

https://images.craigslist.org/00m0m_...K2_600x450.jpg

condition: good
make / manufacturer: Raleigh
model name / number: Sports

1973 Raleigh Sports Bicycle with 3-Speed Sturmey Archer hub and Brooks brown leather saddle. The frame size is approximately 56-57cm and the standover height is 32 inches.

This bike is in great shape and everything works as it should. There are minor dings and scratches (it is a 40+ year old bicycle). See photos. It would make a great around-town bike. I've used it as a commuter and have been very happy with it. I'm selling it because I own two bikes right now and need to make some space in my shed.

Velocivixen 07-14-17 07:10 AM

@arty dave - regarding your comment about the crown race just sitting there, not snug. Just about every Raleigh- whether a Twenty, or a Sport had the same crown race situation. @gugie showed me a n old shop trick where he took a small "punch" and made tiny divots around the steer tube right where the crown race would sit. The divots displaced the steel enough to make tiny raised areas, so when the crown race was slid back into place, it held tighter.
Honestly, though, I just reassemble and things work fine. I wonder if they were designed that way?


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