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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

johnnyspaghetti 06-07-18 02:13 PM

$25 in st.paul area looks to be 1962 to 1965 era.

https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/r...598710323.html

https://images.craigslist.org/00i0i_...5T_600x450.jpg

paulb_in_bkln 06-07-18 04:23 PM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 20382168)
^ Lenton Grand Prix from 1960-61 (earlier models had a rod-operated FD). I've owned at least three, but felt like they rode like a bag of bricks and moved 'em on. What's with the fender chop on that one?!

They're not revealing the location of the rest of the fender. Bag of bricks? Surprises me, what with the lightweight tube set and slack geometry.

paulb_in_bkln 06-07-18 04:28 PM


Originally Posted by johnnyspaghetti (Post 20382444)
$25 in st.paul area looks to be 1962 to 1965 era.

https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/r...598710323.html

Worth a lot more than $25 just to part it out, although that would be a big shame.

nlerner 06-08-18 06:14 AM


Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln (Post 20382669)
They're not revealing the location of the rest of the fender. Bag of bricks? Surprises me, what with the lightweight tube set and slack geometry.

Yeah, I thought that, too, which is why Iíve owned a few. But itís straight gauge 531 main triangle only, so not really a lightweight. Raleigh really didnít have much of a clue about building middle-market roadbikes in this era. They had to acquire Carlton a few years later to figure that out.

Chaser95 06-08-18 07:17 AM

My 77 Sports came to me without a chain guard. I found one online and it is in shipment now. Then it occurred to me that the mounting screws might not be something I can get at the local hardware store. Anyone know the size? Thanks!

CriticalThought 06-08-18 09:15 AM

Superbe Evening Ride
 
Bought a house in Denver recently and have been really enjoying taking the old 3-speeds out on the bike paths near the house. Feels so much like riding around the English countryside where my sister lives. Timeless. Excuse the cupholder ... this is my wife's bike and she likes a place to put her coffee. grin

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d7c3fde46c.png

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...758e7a5073.png

paulb_in_bkln 06-09-18 06:51 AM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 20383480)


Yeah, I thought that, too, which is why Iíve owned a few. But itís straight gauge 531 main triangle only, so not really a lightweight. Raleigh really didnít have much of a clue about building middle-market roadbikes in this era. They had to acquire Carlton a few years later to figure that out.

It's easy to get interested reading a description in a catalog. There's nothing like hearing from someone with hands-on time with the object.

paulb_in_bkln 06-09-18 06:54 AM


Originally Posted by CriticalThought (Post 20383811)
Bought a house in Denver recently and have been really enjoying taking the old 3-speeds out on the bike paths near the house. Feels so much like riding around the English countryside where my sister lives. Timeless. Excuse the cupholder ... this is my wife's bike and she likes a place to put her coffee. grin



Two nice bikes and the USA needs more maintained, unpaved roads.

Chaser95 06-09-18 03:48 PM


Originally Posted by SirMike1983 (Post 20381064)
With the English roadsters, "knee knocking" with the handlebar ends is not at all uncommon on roadsters that use the old-style "narrow" pattern handlebars. The narrow bars were very common from the early days of rod brake roadsters of various brands through the 1960s (Raleigh kept putting them on 'export' spec roadsters even later - into the 1980s). The most common rod brake bike in the US - the US spec DL-1 from the 1970s era, uses a wider type of handlebar which is much less of a problem when turning. But the narrow bars were common for a long time and bikes with them still turn up. My 1978 DL-1 has standard wide bars, whereas my 1962 export DL-1 has narrow bars. My 1935 Hercules had narrow bars as well. My 1963 Danish market Raleigh Dawn Tourist had wide bars.

I have a ladies 74 Phillips with 19.5 frame and knee knocking has always been a problem. I picked up a 74 Schwinn Collegiate 3 speed with same size frame and there is no problem at all. The stem height is about the same on both bikes. The Phillips bars measure a little over 22" in width but, the Collegiate bars are just over 24" wide. The drop on the bars is also greater on the Schwinn. Looks like wider bars with greater drop can solve the problem.

gster 06-10-18 07:36 AM

Not a 3 speed but a Raleigh Glider Scorcher coaster.
For sale here in Toronto.
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...cb2803f18c.jpg

nlerner 06-10-18 03:45 PM

A well-preserved 50s Raleigh Lenton Sports 3-speed for sale in NH:

https://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/bi...608440781.html

https://images.craigslist.org/00r0r_...Lv_600x450.jpg

Ballenxj 06-10-18 04:05 PM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 20387289)
A well-preserved 50s Raleigh Lenton Sports 3-speed for sale in NH:

https://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/bi...608440781.html

WOW! This one had a lot of the right boxes ticked when it was built. :)

clubman 06-10-18 04:36 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 20386722)

Nice one, maybe late 50's with 28" wheels and real slack angles. It has the cool extended chainguard too.

desconhecido 06-10-18 06:43 PM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 20387289)
A well-preserved 50s Raleigh Lenton Sports 3-speed for sale in NH:

https://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/bi...608440781.html

Interesting bike. 40h rim in back, 36 in front, I think. Alloy caliper in rear, steel in front. What size wheels would it have? The front brake looks about like the front brake on a normal Sports of the time -- would it be 650A?

nlerner 06-10-18 09:22 PM


Originally Posted by desconhecido (Post 20387542)
Interesting bike. 40h rim in back, 36 in front, I think. Alloy caliper in rear, steel in front. What size wheels would it have? The front brake looks about like the front brake on a normal Sports of the time -- would it be 650A?

Well, it ends up that a buddy of mine bought it. I know that because he asked me if I had any fenders that might be appropriate. I'll see him next weekend and ask about wheel size.

Stadjer 06-11-18 02:24 AM


Originally Posted by mtb_addict (Post 20377921)
Hey yall!

I have a Dutch Oma, which I believe is a close cousin to the English 3spd. I notice the English have low handlebars (near saddle height), while my Dutch has extreme tall handlebars.

So I tried to make it more English by dropping the handlebars much lower (but still much above saddle height). I riding it around like that, and I notice the bar end and the brake lever would hit my knee when turning at low speed. I feel like I can't make tight turns anymore...and it feels frustrating. The first time it hit my knee, I almost fell.

Is this also happen on the English bikes?

The typical Dutch oma is an English design from 1904. The typical Dutch gent's roadster is an English design from the twenties. It's sticking to the old English ways that makes a bike 'Dutch'. Extremely high handlebars are covet by collectors of old oma's, because of the riding position and probably because the younger generations are much taller, but the tallest ones don't have rod brakes. Also with post war roadster it's usually the rod brakes that limit the height of the handlebars.

I have a seventies dutch three speed, with narrow handlebars and rod brakes. I ride with my knees out, because with it's 65 cm frame size it's made for the taller people of a shorter generation. That's quite normal here because a lot of people ride old bikes which are too small. I've tried wider handlebars on it, but it didn't solve the knee problem entirely, made knees out less comfortable, it made the bike harder to park in a rack and the rods didn't line up as tightly making the brake feel less tight. New bikes usually have easily adjustable handlebars that can be set quite high and often a sloaping top tube, but if they wanted to keep the same proportions, they would have to switch to 30 inch or 32 inch wheels. That would cause problems with bike racks on sidewalks and bike parkings, the wider handle bars are already a problem in old bike racks.

My advice is to ride a Dutch bike in a Dutch way: either very upright with high handlebars, which is an excellent riding position, or with your knees out.


Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln (Post 20379820)
There's a vivid passage in one of James Herriot's All Creatures books where he describes an adult who's originally from Glasgow and is of small stature and Herriot talks about the clear signs of childhood hunger--starvation is more accurate, I guess, That's stayed with me.

Or centuries of malnutrition. As I understood it, British nobles have been a head above the commons for a few centuries, and those still haven't caught up entirely.

arty dave 06-11-18 05:48 AM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 20387337)
Nice one, maybe late 50's with 28" wheels and real slack angles. It has the cool extended chainguard too.

I wouldn't have guessed 28" wheels, I thought that was a much smaller bike. It's cool - I also like the slack angles.

clubman 06-11-18 06:02 AM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by arty dave (Post 20387993)
I wouldn't have guessed 28" wheels, I thought that was a much smaller bike. It's cool - I also like the slack angles.

I rode this orange one for years. my best guess was '61, without the original chainguard. The Canadian 28" wheel has a 620mm bead, same as 700c's.

It's possible that it has 26" wheels. Raleigh rebrand models varied quite a bit in the export markets.

BigChief 06-11-18 06:16 AM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 20387775)
Well, it ends up that a buddy of mine bought it. I know that because he asked me if I had any fenders that might be appropriate. I'll see him next weekend and ask about wheel size.

It is an interesting bike. Any chance you could persuade him to share some detail pics with us here? The seller seemed to be knowledgeable and yet no mention of the rear hub was in the ad. The 54 catalog claims FM as standard.

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...04e5bb793f.jpg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...56a16c8eaa.jpg

paulb_in_bkln 06-11-18 07:10 AM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 20387289)
A well-preserved 50s Raleigh Lenton Sports 3-speed for sale in NH:

https://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/bi...608440781.html

I know you're not a fan, based on ownership of several. I wonder could all that many of these have been imported way back when? Still an unusual bike to own, even if the frame isn't as lively as the specs might lead a reader to expect.

desconhecido 06-11-18 08:56 AM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 20387775)
Well, it ends up that a buddy of mine bought it. I know that because he asked me if I had any fenders that might be appropriate. I'll see him next weekend and ask about wheel size.

Reading the Lenton info on the retro-raleigh articles it seems that 597mm may be what it has. Some may have had 27" wheels, but it seems most or the era had 26 1-1/4.

clubman 06-11-18 09:13 AM


Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln (Post 20388094)
I wonder could all that many of these have been imported way back when? Still an unusual bike to own, even if the frame isn't as lively as the specs might lead a reader to expect.

The eastern seaboard of the US and much of English Canada saw many of these bikes, either brought here by Brits (many academics) or imported by shops. The ones sold here often had different specs, like AW instead of FM hubs.

I live in a small, provincial University town in Nova Scotia and fully 1/3 of the professorial population seems to be British. And yes, many still like to ride 3 speeds. They always get a kick out of my 64 Moulton 4 Speed.

nlerner 06-11-18 10:10 AM


Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln (Post 20388094)
I know you're not a fan, based on ownership of several. I wonder could all that many of these have been imported way back when? Still an unusual bike to own, even if the frame isn't as lively as the specs might lead a reader to expect.

Just to clarify: The one I linked to is a Lenton Sports. The previous one we were discussing is a Lenton Grand Prix. Peter Kohler has an excellent article on the Raleigh Lentons, describing the evolution and the various models and their differences.

Boston was home to Raleigh USA for a long time, so we seem to see lots of examples from the 50s to the 70s in fairly large number. According to this article, by the late 1960s Raleigh was building 4 million bicycles a year, 75% of which were exported outside the UK. That's a lotta bikes!

nlerner 06-11-18 10:15 AM

One of the Lenton Grand Prix bikes that I bought came with actual paperwork (which I passed along when I sold it):

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1750/...e04c9a3d_z.jpg
LentonGPdocs2

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1741/...6c65c463_z.jpg
LentonGPdocs1

arty dave 06-11-18 05:28 PM

I thought I'd better post a photo of my Malvern Star 3 speed before it sells. This was a bit of an emotional purchase for me about 10 years ago, as it was so similar to a bike I rode in high school and college. It's a 1968 'Skidstar' model - Malvern Star released it as a standard frame and as a cantilever frame. The cantilever framed version now has a following with enthusiasts.

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1735/...c67842cb_b.jpg
IMG20180611113524 by arty dave armour, on Flickr

This standard version is typical of an Australian 3 speed of the 60's/70's/early 80's, the difference to a similar English bike being the majority of the Aussie made bikes were built with 27 x 1 1/4" wheels. It originally had a SA hub, but I changed it out for a Shimano 3S hub and ran bare shifter wire with a pulley instead of the original full length outer. Malvern Star was just starting to use Shimano 3 speed hubs at this time so I don't feel bad about swapping it out, and weirdly this bike had an S5 hub that was never rigged up on the left side. I really like the S5 hub - it will go to a 28" roadster. Also this bike originally had steel levers and brakes. It's a bit hard to let this one go, but I need the money and have other bikes to ride.


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