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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

Amesja 05-13-11 05:31 AM

Wow. CR18's run for $30+ so those Mavics must be worth at least as much. I bet they aren't nearly as skinny as the CR18's either. They are probably worth upwards of $50/each and would have sold for that on ebay I would think. You win the "saved from the dump" award for the year IMHO.

Sixty Fiver 05-13-11 07:50 AM


Originally Posted by Amesja (Post 12636845)
Wow. CR18's run for $30+ so those Mavics must be worth at least as much. I bet they aren't nearly as skinny as the CR18's either. They are probably worth upwards of $50/each and would have sold for that on ebay I would think. You win the "saved from the dump" award for the year IMHO.

Took some pics but left my camera out at the shop... will be heading back out today or tomorrow.

Mexican Street Dog 05-13-11 08:15 AM

Hey all,
More questions, The serial number on the seat lug area is 154336. In the charts on Sheldon Brown's site the closest I could find was for 1906. Six digits no letters. There are pics of the serial number here

http://www.flickr.com/photos/carl_br...n/photostream/

Does this look right? It looks awful rough to me but ?

The SA hub says K6 which I gather is 1936.
So.. any ideas, comments?

Thanks

Mexican Street Dog 05-13-11 04:02 PM

Hello all, I seem to have lost a post somewhere, phooey.
Did I post about the funkiness of the serial number? It is 154336 no letters. The closest number I could find on Sheldon Brown site (WOW!!) put it in 1906. Thats not right. Pics of the serial number are here

http://www.flickr.com/photos/carl_br...n/photostream/

does that look right to you all? I've no idea how it should look but that looks awful rough to me.

So I took the cranks off and the bottom bracket out and everything looks pretty good, someone banged up the lockring trying to hammer out the driveside cotter but oh well. I haven't got the stem yet, there's a post on Oldroads about it though.

I got some scratch remover and it works pretty good. There looks to be some blue paint on the headtube around the badge. For the most part the paint looks OK, I don't know where the old paint ends and the new paint begins. I don't think they repainted the whole thing but the overpaint is really bad, drippy and just bad.

I think it has been repaired, there is some chunky brazing on the seatstay bridge. So the bike is pretty rough, thats OK. I'll figure out the depths as I go.

Thanks all for the advice to slow down on the repaint, I may still but it will be a considered move now. I'll post more photos soon.

Speaking of which, how does one post photos to this forum? I put mine on flickr but it would be better to have them right here.

Thanks folks

Carl

Amesja 05-13-11 04:14 PM

Looks like you got it down to the black fairly well. The bike has quite the patina -especially around the serial number. Maybe there is another line above that number that contained the letters but it got ground/sanded off on one of the repaints.

Posting pics here is fairly easy although I don't know about flickr. I use picasa from google and just left click on my hosted picture and click on "copy image URL" and then paste that into the little box that pops up after I click on the "Insert Image" button here under the URL box. Bada-bing! It works. You might have to change some of your privacy/right-protect settings at flickr. I used to use flickr but they ticked me off since they have a maximum image host number that has nothing to do with the actual SIZE of the image. Picasa is free and unlimited as long as the image is under 800px or something like that.

Mexican Street Dog 05-17-11 05:53 AM

Hey folks, More about my Golden Arrow.
I made a spanner wrench to remove the top nut from the steerer tu, ah wait, fork column, it worked great. My co-worker, when I told him I was making a wrench said "but...hacksawing is hard.". I think I could have taken it off by hand if I'd tried hard enough. The head clip is being somewhat recalcitrant but I think it'll come. I am taking my time so I don't get carried away and break something. So far though everything has been coming very smoothly, I think this machine has been kept lubed for its 75 year life.
I feel pretty lucky to have stumbled across a bike like this and I sure wonder what it was doing in Bangor, Maine.
I think that for now I am going to leave the paint alone. I don't think I'm going to try too hard to get the repaint off, at this time anyway.. How ever I wonder about taking the repaint off the stem and seatpost, I'm pretty sure they are chrome underneath, you can see it through the chips.

Slowly slowly catchee monkey.
Later, Carl

fender76 05-17-11 06:47 AM

All of that chrome may have been blacked out during wartime.
You may want to leave it.

My '36 Tourist has most parts blacked out by the factory - maybe your original owner did his/her own version?

Also, Is there a date on the hub? What model is it? Does it say patent pending?
You may want to start a separate thread for it.

Nice bike by the way.

Mexican Street Dog 05-17-11 11:29 AM

Jason, Thanks for your reply, it is a K hub, which I gather is a wide range hub? K-6 for 1936.

I have started a thread about this bike,

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...1#post12654981

I hope folks will check in there from time to time.

Thanks, Carl

yoder 05-17-11 12:23 PM

1971 Raleigh Sports
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3338/...126c55d3_z.jpg

Sixty Fiver 05-17-11 06:26 PM

1975 Raleigh Sports... removed the auto adjusters on the brakes and replaced the steel front rim with one of those Mavic rims I scored the other day.

:)

http://www.ravingbikefiend.com/bikepics/bluesports2.JPG

http://www.ravingbikefiend.com/bikep...ortsmavic1.JPG

The back wheel is a little lumpy so will rebuild that one tomorrow.

Someone will appreciate this bike when I am done with it and just have to find a rear reflector.

Oh... the bike was found in a dumpster last fall and has just been taking up space in the shop.

BigPolishJimmy 05-18-11 12:08 PM

This thread has given me English 3-speed fever I know I have 3 of them already, but none in the right size except for the women's Raleigh. I can stand it no longer, I have cast a few lines out and the nibbles are starting to come in. All I need is a good frame & fork, I have the parts to build from there. Dang you 3-speed havers, dang you all to heck. You can see it in my mountain bike, it really just wants to be an old english roadster.

LuckyChow99 05-18-11 12:48 PM


Originally Posted by BigPolishJimmy (Post 12659910)
This thread has given me English 3-speed fever I know I have 3 of them already, but none in the right size except for the women's Raleigh. I can stand it no longer, I have cast a few lines out and the nibbles are starting to come in. All I need is a good frame & fork, I have the parts to build from there. Dang you 3-speed havers, dang you all to heck. You can see it in my mountain bike, it really just wants to be an old english roadster.

3 speed-itis is a terrible diasease to contract. You have my sincerest sympathy. It has taken down many mountain bikes, way before their time. Be careful you don't give it to the rest of the family, as it is fairly contageous. Between the Red Coats and Raleigh's, those Brits have really taken their toll on this country.

Please excuse me now. My tea and biscuit is waiting. :>)

noglider 05-18-11 01:57 PM

I saw a very nice Hercules for sale on New Jersey craigslist last night. Men's model, terrific condition (by the picture), and only $125. But I can't make a profit on that, and I certainly don't need another.

BigPolishJimmy 05-18-11 02:36 PM

I swear if I strike out trying to find an affordable large men's frame i'm going to build a side car for my lady sports and be done with it.

My bike funds are non-existent at the moment, so I need to find the basket case to rescue, but that suits me fine. I'd love a Hercules after seeing the beautiful ones posted here, but a buck twenty five + shipping is out of my reach. I'm not saying it's not worth it, just not in my immediate future.

... perhaps I really don't need 3 fujis and 6 other bikes ... wait.. what am I saying?

noglider 05-18-11 02:41 PM

What are you looking for, Jimmy? I suppose a tall bike, to start with ...

BigPolishJimmy 05-18-11 02:57 PM

I'll be happy with a large framed men's sports for now. Ultimately I drool over the DL1 but I really don't see that happening soon, a large frame sports on the other hand should turn up soon enough.

Currently I have a 21" Men's Raleigh Sports, and a 21" Men's Armstrong and a 23" Raleigh Lady Sports, plus 2-21" Free Spirits and a couple of 21" huffys for parts. So I'm well stocked with smaller bike for parts, just waiting for the right opportunity. The comfort I've managed to obtain in setting up my mtn bike roadster style has made it clear. It's just a matter of time before I join in with a bike I can actually ride. I should be able to get by on a 23" frame with a tall stem, but a 25" frame would be best.

This thread has taken me from just giving old 3-speeds a second glance, to strait up coveting the style, ride, and utility of these beautiful machines. It's one of my favorite threads on the board.

noglider 05-18-11 04:07 PM

It's one of my favorites, too!

And now my Rudge has become my daily rider. It's so incredibly reliable, and I am getting the hang of how to ride it. I can't explain it. It's a combination of where to put my weight and how hard to pedal and in which part of the stroke. I exert more force at a higher point of the stroke than on modern bikes. I've learned to use the handling characteristics to make very tight turns at high speed. And I'm getting used to the widely spaced gears. It's taken time to learn these things, and I love it. One day, I'll put on alloy rims, but right now, I'm content with the steel. Braking is excellent in the dry. I manage to survive in the wet by riding cautiously.

I tried a DL-1 and didn't like it. I'm sure that would take learning, too, but it's really slow in both acceleration and turning. I can see, comparing the models, why the Sports has its name. The term applies the same way "sports car" applies to those machines.

You should learn how to use Google Alerts. I get some really good craigslist and ebay listings that way.

Amesja 05-18-11 05:08 PM


Originally Posted by BigPolishJimmy (Post 12659910)
This thread has given me English 3-speed fever I know I have 3 of them already, but none in the right size except for the women's Raleigh. I can stand it no longer, I have cast a few lines out and the nibbles are starting to come in. All I need is a good frame & fork, I have the parts to build from there. Dang you 3-speed havers, dang you all to heck. You can see it in my mountain bike, it really just wants to be an old english roadster.

I have 3 of them in my living room right now...

Mexican Street Dog 05-18-11 06:24 PM

I wish I could get them all back. I didn't know what they were, I just knew they were old rusted junk. There is a special place for ignoramuses like me. The junk man brings bikes to my house on the way to the scrapyard, I come home from work and there is a bike or two in the driveway. I took some parts off them and fixed others up and sent all the rusty old junk back with him to the scrap yard. WAHHH Boohoo. But I still have a ladies Sports that fits my wife and my Golden Arrow. I imagine more will be along. A his and hers Bianchis, one a five speed and one a three speed, I'm guessing from the really early '70s, fenders, chrome white vinyl saddles. Ugh. They were rusty as anything but now that I know what can be done....
Oh well, I hope that more come along.

The local Brit motorcycle enthusiast brought by a '40s ladies Sports frame bad dent in the top tube, a front wheel, a rear wheel with an SA that I haven't dated yet and a DynoHub front wheel. Awesome! I'm not worthy. The shocker was a '64 Rudge Mustang, SA three speed coaster, and a twist shift!!!
Pictures will go up tomorrow. Tonight I am POOCHED.

I never meant to get into these freakin three speeds either, but now, its all over. Its all over for me. Let this be a lesson to you young man, just walk on by, walk on by.

auchencrow 05-18-11 07:15 PM

I just picked up this Raleigh this evening (rather inexpensively, but not impulsively - It had been sitting for days on CL with a grainy photo and I finally succumbed, in part due to this infectious thread).

There are a few things awry with it: I.e.;
  • The fork is in good condition and chromed, but not painted. (Easy fix).
  • It is missing the rear reflector, SA pulley by the seat post, and it has old Schwinn pedals and grips instead of the originals.
  • It has an old patent pending Thompson kickstand. I don't know if it is original or not.
  • I suspect the lamp is unoriginal also, since it is a 6v unit.
  • The 3-speed bar mounted shifter is surely unoriginal - and possibly the Old Brooks sprung mattress-style saddle as well.
  • -And the Seat clamp is on backwards!

It was purported to be a 60's model, but I doubt that now, because of the following peculiarities:
  • S-6 tires
  • Unmarked steel Raleigh type rims, galvanized spokes.
  • "Patent Pending" front Dynohub (both lights work)
  • No "Raleigh lettering on the frame or chain guard - yet I am sure is NOT a repaint: It does have the fine gold pin-striping everywhere.
  • Heron chain-ring bolted to the crank arm.
  • No braze-on for the missing pulley
  • Old style stem - CLAMPED on (Not quill type).
  • Brake cables soldered both ends. (How do I replace these?)
  • NO Date on the SA "AW-8" rear hub.
  • Big wing-nuts at all 4 corners.
  • Witness from a 2nd TT mounted clamp (TT shifter?)

The paint is in pretty decent shape overall, but (not surprisingly) shifting is not so swift for lack of a pulley.

- Can someone date this for me? I assume it is a Superbe not a Sports but I can't even be sure about that.
I am no expert when it comes to three speeds.


http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/h...xxBlack009.jpg


http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/h...xxBlack011.jpg


http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/h...xxBlack012.jpg


http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/h...xxBlack014.jpg


http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/h...xxBlack017.jpg


http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/h...xxBlack008.jpg


http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/h...xxBlack004.jpg


http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/h...xxBlack007.jpg


http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/h...xxBlack006.jpg

Amesja 05-18-11 07:29 PM

That is a NEAT bike. Ne'er saw one quite like that.

-is that a NOODLE in place of the pulley????

Amesja 05-18-11 07:32 PM

I've found that the MKS 3000r makes a fine replacement rubber-block pedal if you can't source nice rebuildable Ralleigh-Man pedals. Better than the original but not "original."

auchencrow 05-18-11 07:42 PM


Originally Posted by Amesja (Post 12661979)
That is a NEAT bike. Ne'er saw one quite like that.

-is that a NOODLE in place of the pulley????

No, Amesja, that's an early 70's style clamp on shift cable guide for your bottom bracket shell. It does a terrible job of being a pulley.
(I hope finding more suitable replacement that does not require the newer Raleigh braze-on mounting is not too difficult)

auchencrow 05-18-11 07:47 PM


Originally Posted by Amesja (Post 12661989)
I've found that the MKS 3000r makes a fine replacement rubber-block pedal if you can't source nice rebuildable Ralleigh-Man pedals. Better than the original but not "original."

Those look nice, Amesja. Thank you. It looks like I could even flip the blocks around to hide the reflectors for a more vintage look.

BigPolishJimmy 05-18-11 07:50 PM

So rather than pine away for a 3-speed that fits, let me share pictures of the bikes I have and like, but don't fit.

First off there is my Armstrong. I bought this 20 some odd years ago when I was courting my wife.

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...trong_side.jpg

I thought it was a Ross and the model name was 'Armstrong' but a conversation here with Erasergirl cleared that up and I learned a bit about the bike. Too bad she's not still around.

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2..._chainring.jpg

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2..._headbadge.jpg

I bought it for 15 dollars at a garage sale with a bent back rim and proceeded to ride with that bent rim the couple of miles to school to go to class. I had had a mountain bso a few years earlier and although this did not have the perceived flexibility of that bike, it was good for going to class and I was really fond of the style of it. Tom, I know what you mean about getting to know the bike, the mtn bike seemed like it could go places, but this bike even with all its faults out-performed it on the street easily.

There were times in my fevered early 20-something brain that I fancied myself one of the avengers on a bicycle spy mission. Silly but it gave an international flavor to my day that I really enjoyed.

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...ightweight.jpg

Even with the bent rim and the wobble wobble of every rotation I recall being glad to have a bike vs. making the hike to campus. I even rode it with my guitar case on a few occasions.



Next up my Raleigh Sports. My wife actually scored this at an estate sale with a Schwinn Breeze. A great find at a great price. I sold the breeze a few years ago and am ahead in the deal. Got to like that.

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...ports_mens.jpg


Here is my lady sports next to my men's sports. It's hard to see that the women's frame is larger in this photo as the womans sports is missing the front tire and sitting lower than it normally would. I got this bike at a garage sale and it's in beautiful shape. You can tell it was garage kept and loved. It will surely clean up nicely when I get to it.

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2..._sports_x2.jpg

Here is my grandfathers Vista Cavalier, not english, but sporting a S/A hub. When I got back into riding a few years back I tried to ride this bike, but sadly my weight and size were too much for it. I noticed the wheels starting to loose their true and stopped riding it. it's a cool bike and sentimental, but not up to the quality of it's english stable mates.

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...alier_side.jpg

Finally a size comparison of my 3-speeds and my mountain bike. A 25" frame really would be best, the Schwinn is a 23" frame and even if I find a 23" Sports, it's going to look a bit odd with that much stem.

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...sportsters.jpg


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