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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

PeterLYoung 03-29-19 04:26 AM

Raleigh Superb for Auction in UK - Watsons Auctions
 
This is not for me as I now have too many bikes but looks to potentially be a bargain as bikes usually sell quite cheaply here:-
Web Address: https://www.watsonsauctioneers.co.uk...p?lot_id=59350

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...959d29edf6.png

Road Fan 03-29-19 05:30 AM


Originally Posted by PeterLYoung (Post 20860006)
For me, I think it depends on the originality of the bike in question, if the bike is fairly complete with original parts it seems a shame to turn it into something else when it is perfectly restorable and when you think about it people did those long & touring rides on them back in the day. On the other hand if there really is not much re-usable other than the frame, then building what you describe is perfectly legitimate and at least the frame survives. If you are having to climb serious hills then I can understand the need for a granny gear and there are sprung chain tensioners I have seen on eBay by Cyclo and I am sure I have seen one by Campagnolo but they are not common.
I have recently restored a Freddie Grubb Road Bike from 1955 but there were no usable original parts on it so basically it was just a frame, so I rebuilt it with full Campagnolo parts from late 50's to late 60's so it is not how a 1955 bicycle would have looked but at least I can ride it and enjoy using it. I saved it from the scrap heap. Conversely I am soon to restore a 1948 Humber Clubman and I am going to great lengths to bring it back to 'as new' original condition as it has almost all original restorable parts. I am only venturing how I see it and I am sure others may view it differently to me. Hope this helps.

For the Grubb, how did you handle the chainset? On mine, I had extraordinary difficulty with the drive side cotter pin, and I do not want that again. That's why I'm thinkiing of a Cyclotourist. Does the Grubb have a Raleigh-threaded BB?

I'd love to get the Cyclo parts, but I think they attach to a braze-on (two small bolt holes) under the chainstay that this frame does not have. Or were there some that used a claw?

BigChief 03-29-19 05:43 AM


Originally Posted by PeterLYoung (Post 20860006)
For me, I think it depends on the originality of the bike in question, if the bike is fairly complete with original parts it seems a shame to turn it into something else when it is perfectly restorable and when you think about it people did those long & touring rides on them back in the day. On the other hand if there really is not much re-usable other than the frame, then building what you describe is perfectly legitimate and at least the frame survives. If you are having to climb serious hills then I can understand the need for a granny gear and there are sprung chain tensioners I have seen on eBay by Cyclo and I am sure I have seen one by Campagnolo but they are not common.
I have recently restored a Freddie Grubb Road Bike from 1955 but there were no usable original parts on it so basically it was just a frame, so I rebuilt it with full Campagnolo parts from late 50's to late 60's so it is not how a 1955 bicycle would have looked but at least I can ride it and enjoy using it. I saved it from the scrap heap. Conversely I am soon to restore a 1948 Humber Clubman and I am going to great lengths to bring it back to 'as new' original condition as it has almost all original restorable parts. I am only venturing how I see it and I am sure others may view it differently to me. Hope this helps.

What I look for are project bikes. Something that needs work to be useful again. Each project is like a puzzle. Each has it's own possibilities and limitations. There are 3 paths you can take. Preservation, restoration and customization. Usually it ends up being a combination of two or even all three of these.

clubman 03-29-19 06:11 AM


Originally Posted by Road Fan (Post 20860051)

I'd love to get the Cyclo parts, but I think they attach to a braze-on (two small bolt holes) under the chainstay that this frame does not have. Or were there some that used a claw?

There is a Cyclo clamp-on rear derailleur for the 3 speed versions. I think it's the Standard model. Looking for online pics but can't find one. I'll keep looking

paulb_in_bkln 03-29-19 06:17 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 20858549)
I was in a bike shop a while back and was asking about cotter pins.
The owner said:
"Why bother? We just cut the cranks off and replace with a cartridge..."
I stopped in yesterday (I do like the guy) to see if
he had a source for Westwood rims and he just said
"No, you can't get them."

The bike shop owner in A Boy, A Girl, and a Bike is no prize but your fellow, unless he was kidding around, sounds rather horrifying to me. Shops all have that big book of parts; even if he doesn't want to stock something like cotter pins, what's his excuse for not offering a special order? If you need the best quality you have to get them from Bikesmith, but any shop can order the mass produced ones. Bike Shop Mike here has been in the business for close to 40 years and although he's not sentimental he understands the appeal of bikes from long ago. He owns two Land Sharks and still, last summer, he restored a late 70s Fuji Newest for his own use and if he runs across it will jump on just the right PX10.

thumpism 03-29-19 06:35 AM

I have a complete NIB Cyclo Benelux conversion kit that does not require the stay bolts. I'll post a pic and I could be persuaded to part with it.

Road Fan 03-29-19 06:36 AM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 20860082)
There is a Cyclo clamp-on rear derailleur for the 3 speed versions. I think it's the Standard model. Looking for online pics but can't find one. I'll keep looking

Thanks for the info, greatly appreciated!

I wonder how big a ring a Cyclo can handle?

paulb_in_bkln 03-29-19 06:41 AM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 20859278)
It's a short train or bus or car ride north of you in New York. We spend our weekends in gorgeous Ulster County.

Yes, I have found some fine riding there. The issue is the public transit situation, which is not great. Did I say not great? It is mostly abysmal. Metro North to Poughkeepsie, or to Middletown/Otisville/Port Jervis is good and I use those routes frequently. But it should be possible (it was a long time ago) to reach that New Paltz/kingston/Saugerties axis by train. And Amtrak for points north of Poughkeepsie on the east side of the river--don't get me started; Hudson is a great base for day rides but the round trip by train is $120! And Amtrak doesn't allow full size bikes on this route; I use the foldcycle but it's still annoying they're not willing to put up a few bike hooks, or would be except Amtrak is always between a rock and a hard place in everything. The bus is way less than half the price, but it's nearly three hours one way to Saugerties.

thumpism 03-29-19 06:52 AM

Here you go. Note the claw mount. Cogs are 15-17-24.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e77aea97b0.jpg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b1ee538e9e.jpg

PeterLYoung 03-29-19 06:54 AM


Originally Posted by Road Fan (Post 20860051)
For the Grubb, how did you handle the chainset? On mine, I had extraordinary difficulty with the drive side cotter pin, and I do not want that again. That's why I'm thinkiing of a Cyclotourist. Does the Grubb have a Raleigh-threaded BB?

I'd love to get the Cyclo parts, but I think they attach to a braze-on (two small bolt holes) under the chainstay that this frame does not have. Or were there some that used a claw?

The Grubb had a British Threaded Bottom Bracket, Raleigh have their own thread size which is not compatible so you have to use Raleigh Cups when overhauling a Raleigh or Raleigh derivative which I imagine are readily available. On the Grubb I put in a Vintage NOS Campagnolo Bottom Bracket Set for a Cotterless Chainset.

Normally I have never had a problem with Cotterpins one just has to be careful and not force the issue as that usually ends in disaster. Others have written many posts on Cotterpin removal. With a bike restoration I like to take everything apart even reluctant parts so I know I can get them apart again in the future. I have just finished restoring a 1936 BSA and I had no trouble removing the cotter-pins even though I doubt they had ever been removed before.
Cyclo Gear Changers did attach via a bracket that formed part of the frame but I am sure they also has a bracketed version. The other route you could go is to convert your 3 Speed to a dual sprocket and use say a Cyclo Benelux Mark 7 changer which uses the optional bracket clamp via the wheel nut as also does Campagnolo. I have never done this conversion through others in this thread I think have done.

Here are some modern chain Tensioners that are readily available and I am sure there are many others out there chain Reaction and Tredz also supply them, Hope this all helps:-
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c3ee42d6ac.png
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...547f650ee5.png
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c69030530f.png

PeterLYoung 03-29-19 06:59 AM


Originally Posted by thumpism (Post 20860143)

That is very nice, I would think pretty rare, there are people asking around $300 for just the benelux changer kit NIB on EBay!!!!!

paulb_in_bkln 03-29-19 07:02 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20860059)
What I look for are project bikes. Something that needs work to be useful again. Each project is like a puzzle. Each has it's own possibilities and limitations. There are 3 paths you can take. Preservation, restoration and customization. Usually it ends up being a combination of two or even all three of these.

I think my Peugeot mixte three speed conversion qualifies here. The frame has those darned weird French dimensions for the stem and seat tube and bottom bracket. I gave up finding the right cotterless spindle and bought VO's cartridge BB, and am still deciding the best way to go with the handlebar stem. BUT after years of being a dormant project because it took so long to complete the new 700C wheels (an experience I'm trying to forget), just yesterday, I got the bike rideable. It's not nearly ready to be photographed but a just a couple more weeks, I hope. It's like a 19-inch frame and I'm nearly 6-1 so it's slightly ridiculous for me but I always wanted a Peugeot mixte. And although it's just been a couple short rides, I'm thinking it's real good as a three speed.

gster 03-29-19 08:08 AM

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c7e184aaec.jpg

gster 03-29-19 09:13 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20860059)
What I look for are project bikes. Something that needs work to be useful again. Each project is like a puzzle. Each has it's own possibilities and limitations. There are 3 paths you can take. Preservation, restoration and customization. Usually it ends up being a combination of two or even all three of these.

That's always the challenge.
I plan on using as many original parts on the '30 Hercules.
The wheels are the main issue.
For example, if I were to find a good
DL-1 donor bike I'd have no problem
swapping out the wheels and making it a 3 speed.
I'll repaint the bike but don't have the skills to pinstripe
and I'm too cheap to pay someone else...
I can however, reproduce the decals.

gster 03-29-19 09:24 AM


Originally Posted by PeterLYoung (Post 20858321)
I agree they can be prohibitive especially the duty (parts from USA to UK face 20% tariff!!!) but it does show these replacement parts are available. That wheel you found must have travelled through this supplier at some point in its past.

I did me some figuring...
the wheel would cost me $56.00 CDN
taxes and duty @ $16.60
Shipping ?
So probably $100.00 in total
which is really not a lot these days.

gster 03-29-19 09:30 AM


Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln (Post 20860091)
The bike shop owner in A Boy, A Girl, and a Bike is no prize but your fellow, unless he was kidding around, sounds rather horrifying to me. Shops all have that big book of parts; even if he doesn't want to stock something like cotter pins, what's his excuse for not offering a special order? If you need the best quality you have to get them from Bikesmith, but any shop can order the mass produced ones. Bike Shop Mike here has been in the business for close to 40 years and although he's not sentimental he understands the appeal of bikes from long ago. He owns two Land Sharks and still, last summer, he restored a late 70s Fuji Newest for his own use and if he runs across it will jump on just the right PX10.

It's too bad as the shop is a block from my house and you're right,
I bet if he opened up that supply catalogue he'd find something....
He did bring up a pair of old wheels from the basement..
They were too rough for me and I said I'd pass.
He then replied that they're not for sale anyway..
Go figure.

PeterLYoung 03-29-19 09:31 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 20860389)
I did me some figuring...
the wheel would cost me $56.00 CDN
taxes and duty @ $16.60
Shipping ?
So probably $100.00 in total
which is really not a lot these days.

They do supply Westwood Rims only both 32 and 40 hole versions, they will quote you shipping international if you can't find one anywhere else. I did post the link in my original post. Hope that helps.

Ged117 03-29-19 02:15 PM

Derelict Raleigh Sports
 
Well folks I managed to get my hands on an old derelict 1979 Raleigh Sports step through. It is a Canadian made model from what I understand about the white painted seat tube. The hub is dated August '79. I plan to use the brake parts on my 1950 Superbe after I clean them up, a long with the various clips (especially the chain guard clips). Have a look see. I will practice hub rebuilds with the AW from this bike. The wheels are shot.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...103a2fba7b.jpg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...6e3edbf77a.jpg

browngw 03-29-19 02:46 PM


Originally Posted by Ged117 (Post 20860832)
Well folks I managed to get my hands on an old derelict 1979 Raleigh Sports step through. It is a Canadian made model from what I understand about the white painted seat tube. The hub is dated August '79. I plan to use the brake parts on my 1950 Superbe after I clean them up, a long with the various clips (especially the chain guard clips). Have a look see. I will practice hub rebuilds with the AW from this bike. The wheels are shot.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...103a2fba7b.jpg

Easy to determine if it is Canadian built as the serial# will start with an "R". Glad to see some Raleigh's in the Kingston area. I grew up around Odessa (Violet actually) and have spent the last 40 years in Port Dover on Lake Erie.

gster 03-29-19 04:13 PM


Originally Posted by Ged117 (Post 20860832)
Well folks I managed to get my hands on an old derelict 1979 Raleigh Sports step through. It is a Canadian made model from what I understand about the white painted seat tube. The hub is dated August '79. I plan to use the brake parts on my 1950 Superbe after I clean them up, a long with the various clips (especially the chain guard clips). Have a look see. I will practice hub rebuilds with the AW from this bike. The wheels are shot.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...103a2fba7b.jpg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...6e3edbf77a.jpg

it's often easier and cheaper to get a donor bike for the odds n' ends.
The time and money spent hunting down a few clips etc can really add up.
Amazon.ca examples
Indicator chain @ $53.00 + shipping
https://www.amazon.ca/Sturmey-Archer...ateway&sr=8-39

Axle key (indicator screws into) @ $53.00 + shipping
https://www.amazon.ca/Sturmey-Archer...ateway&sr=8-56

Here's another axle key @ $138.00!!!!!!
https://www.amazon.ca/Sturmey-Archer...ateway&sr=8-82

I'm sure no one in their right mind would order these but.....

Dan Burkhart 03-29-19 04:54 PM


Originally Posted by browngw (Post 20860879)
Easy to determine if it is Canadian built as the serial# will start with an "R". Glad to see some Raleigh's in the Kingston area. I grew up around Odessa (Violet actually) and have spent the last 40 years in Port Dover on Lake Erie.

Port Dover has more palm trees than Odessa.:D

clubman 03-29-19 05:00 PM


Originally Posted by Dan Burkhart (Post 20861015)
Port Dover has more palm trees than Odessa.:D

And more Harley's :twitchy:

3speedslow 03-29-19 05:03 PM

Interesting about the serial number. My R20 has NDxxxxxxxx so I guess it was made in England then exported to Canada?

Ive been calling it a Canadian model.

paulb_in_bkln 03-29-19 06:22 PM


Originally Posted by Ged117 (Post 20860832)
Well folks I managed to get my hands on an old derelict 1979 Raleigh Sports step through. It is a Canadian made model from what I understand about the white painted seat tube. The hub is dated August '79. I plan to use the brake parts on my 1950 Superbe after I clean them up, a long with the various clips (especially the chain guard clips). Have a look see. I will practice hub rebuilds with the AW from this bike. The wheels are shot.

You'll have that hub so cleaned up and smooth running you'll look for a bike to hang it on.

Dan Burkhart 03-29-19 06:25 PM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 20861020)
And more Harley's :twitchy:

At least when the 13th lands on a Friday.


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