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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

gster 06-12-19 04:18 AM


Originally Posted by Ged117 (Post 20973502)
I'm having a hard time fitting my rear fender back onto the '50 Superbe. I think the Panaracer Col de la Vie tires are a bit bigger than the original. The front went OK with a little wiggling and adjustment, but the rear has been a pain. It is very tight right at the back where the fender reflector bolt end rubs on the tire. I'm wondering I could use a shorter bolt, but I am afraid to remove the reflector housing bolt. I suppose I will keep moving it around to find the best alignment. I think the trick is in where it mounts at the brake; there is something curious about the way they mounted the fender stay clip. I just have to run the shifter cable, install brake cables with original oiled housings, and dial in the shift adjustment before I install the 3 speed Cyclo derailer. I am very excited about the Cyclo unit because it will help on our local trails and my commute. I may even take it on an overnighter or weekender once I can trust it.

Perhaps your rear wheel is too far back in the drop outs.
On a normal set up (one cog) the wheel sits about half way
in the drop out allowing you a little room for adjustment
as the chain stretches.
You're entering new territory with your set up and will need
some time to dial it in...

alexnagui 06-12-19 04:49 AM

I had been looking for a 3-speeds bike and I found one in my size a while ago. It's a BSA Star Rider supposedly from '62. It's quite a heavy machine but it has some nice details. I haven't seen many of them here on the forum, but I found this one here.

Last weekend, I took it from the storage for a check and some adjustments. Mounted a Brooks B67 saddle, adjusted brakes and oiled the hub. I will take it for a small ride tonight to see if I need to do anything else. Will definitely have to fix lights and adjust the rear brake a bit better. I am busy with other projects so I don't have enough time right now for a complete overhaul. Anyway I am gonna use it as an all-around bike as it is now.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...64e2f5726b.jpg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...fbbd6cb1ba.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...263164208b.jpg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...493dc8eda2.jpg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...1d83bb6872.jpg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4cbb5e31c1.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d971bf4cf1.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...529c7cbfdd.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b84fc8e2cf.jpg

Ged117 06-12-19 06:45 AM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 20973653)
Yup. Just take a coarse hand file or dremel to shorten it, making sure to clean up any burrs. I'm not sure which fender/brake mount is being used here but sometimes you can put a spacer between the chainstay bridge and the front of the rear mudguard to shift the whole assembly back and possibly give you a nicer arc to work with.


Originally Posted by gster (Post 20974409)
Perhaps your rear wheel is too far back in the drop outs.
On a normal set up (one cog) the wheel sits about half way
in the drop out allowing you a little room for adjustment
as the chain stretches.
You're entering new territory with your set up and will need
some time to dial it in...

Thanks fellows. I thought about filing down the bolt but I figured I was doing something wrong to require that kind of action. From reading elsewhere it looks like these Panaracer tires are usually a tight fit anyway. I hadn't thought of moving the wheel in the drop outs. It is all the way back because I thought that was how it is supposed to be. I'm going to try moving it up to the halfway point or almost. I learn something new here with each visit. We'll see if that jives with the Cyclo setup once I get the AG adjustment sorted. I cleaned the Cyclo cable housings with mild dish soap and they came out so well. The unit itself is nicely chromed and shined right up. A little oil down the housings and grease on the spindle and I think it will be really neat to ride with. Figuring out the gear combos should be fun. There are a bunch of neat gravel and dirt rail paths I want to take it on that I can't ride at present with my touring bike. One thing at a time...

I'll take nice photos at a local cycle destination when it is road ready.

clubman 06-12-19 06:52 AM


Originally Posted by alexnagui (Post 20974424)
I had been looking for a 3-speeds bike and I found one in my size a while ago. It's a BSA Star Rider supposedly from '62.

Wonderful bike. Dutch market, possibly even assembled in Holland by Gazelle with Raleigh parts. The rims aren't Dunlops so likely dutch too. I think BSA's have the nicest fork crowns. Congrats.

BigChief 06-12-19 07:07 AM


Originally Posted by alexnagui (Post 20974424)
I had been looking for a 3-speeds bike and I found one in my size a while ago. It's a BSA Star Rider supposedly from '62. It's quite a heavy machine but it has some nice details. I haven't seen many of them here on the forum, but I found this one here.

Last weekend, I took it from the storage for a check and some adjustments. Mounted a Brooks B67 saddle, adjusted brakes and oiled the hub. I will take it for a small ride tonight to see if I need to do anything else. Will definitely have to fix lights and adjust the rear brake a bit better. I am busy with other projects so I don't have enough time right now for a complete overhaul. Anyway I am gonna use it as an all-around bike as it is now.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...64e2f5726b.jpg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...fbbd6cb1ba.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...263164208b.jpg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...493dc8eda2.jpg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...1d83bb6872.jpg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4cbb5e31c1.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d971bf4cf1.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...529c7cbfdd.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b84fc8e2cf.jpg

You got a good one. It's possible that this is Raleigh made in Nottingham with some aftermarket parts. They used some premium features on this bike. It has the Raleigh pattern dual purpose rims and the nicer single bolt brake levers. Back when I worked at the Raleigh dealership, the head mechanic always made a stink over stems set too high. He wanted the expander to be below the threaded section of the fork tube. Raleighs don't have a keyway cut into the tube, so it may not be as critical, but what he told me about failures there stuck with me all these years. This stem looks like the expander is up under the threads. Great choice of saddle. This bike may have originally had a Brooks since it seems to be a premium model. Nice Bike.

sykerocker 06-12-19 07:44 AM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 20974177)
Looks like a 0 so possibly a 1940 model as a flyer. Early-war?
I'd expect to see more blacked out chrome near the end of war.

The rear wheel is as it came, the front wheel was obviously a rusted rim repainted in silver paint. A new rim came with the bike, so I rebuilt the front wheel using the straight gauge spokes I normally keep in stock in the shop. The seat post is one I had sitting in the shop that fits, the original is an L-shaped chrome one that's completely beaten to hell to the point that I'm afraid it'd crack at the weld if used regularly.

I've got a Wright's non-leather saddle with the bike that's in bad enough shape that I don't consider it rideable. Will probably replace with a B-72, which would look proper and is a heck of a lot easier to find.

Pre-war/early-war, I'm equally happy. Consider that my original plan for the group was to pick up a '70's DL-1 and completely refinish and backdate it. The group was fine with this - in WWII-era reenactment, unless you've got a BSA folding bike, you fudge like crazy, and I've seen more than a few Huffy's, etc. repainted to look sorta like the proper thing at 15 feet. I discovered years ago that most WWII re-enactors know almost nothing about Thirties bicycles, and usually spend some of my off-duty time from the James Fort at MTA talking with the units, filling them in on what they need to do if they want that part of their impression to be dead-on.

And don't ask what BSA folding bikes go for. You'll be picking your jaw off the floor. They're highly desirable.

jackbombay 06-12-19 08:04 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20974401)
Glad you got it sorted. Not sure what went wrong the first time, but the axle is fixed in position. When you drop the planet gear cage on, it rests on a stop and is automatically aligned with the sun gear.

Well, on my first attempt I was reassembling it in a horizontal position, so things weren't necessarily where they were supposed to be.

Just rode it to town and back and its running and shifting great :-)

Ged117 06-12-19 09:11 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 20974409)
Perhaps your rear wheel is too far back in the drop outs.
On a normal set up (one cog) the wheel sits about half way
in the drop out allowing you a little room for adjustment
as the chain stretches.
You're entering new territory with your set up and will need
some time to dial it in...

I've just gone back and taken a look at the photos I posted in this thread when I first bought the bike and brought it home at Christmas. The rear wheel was installed about halfway in the drop out. Great suggestion thanks. I'm going to re position the wheel and that should take care of the fender clearance issue. In looking at the photos, I realized that the right hand brake lever was controlling the front brake. I know for cable routing perfection that is preferable, but I'm going to stick with muscle memory.

Salubrious 06-12-19 10:08 AM


Originally Posted by Ged117 (Post 20974882)
I've just gone back and taken a look at the photos I posted in this thread when I first bought the bike and brought it home at Christmas. The rear wheel was installed about halfway in the drop out. Great suggestion thanks. I'm going to re position the wheel and that should take care of the fender clearance issue. In looking at the photos, I realized that the right hand brake lever was controlling the front brake. I know for cable routing perfection that is preferable, but I'm going to stick with muscle memory.

The problem here is that the chain tension (or lack thereof) has to be correct- you can just move the wheel around. Generally about 1/2" to 3/4" deflection in the middle of the chain if you pull it up with your fingers. That governs the position of the wheel.

If the wheel is all the way back things get tricky. One reason it might be there is the chain is shot. Another might be because its too long. But taking a link out might make it too short. You can buy half links (ebay) to solve the latter problem. If you've not got a chain link tool, get one (Park makes the best I've had so far), get some scrap chain and see if you can remove and reinstall links properly. Its not hard.

alexnagui 06-12-19 10:18 AM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 20974547)
Wonderful bike. Dutch market, possibly even assembled in Holland by Gazelle with Raleigh parts. The rims aren't Dunlops so likely dutch too. I think BSA's have the nicest fork crowns. Congrats.

I think you're right! It came with a mix of British and Dutch components. And it looks like a typical Dutch bike indeed!


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20974563)
You got a good one. It's possible that this is Raleigh made in Nottingham with some aftermarket parts. They used some premium features on this bike. It has the Raleigh pattern dual purpose rims and the nicer single bolt brake levers. Back when I worked at the Raleigh dealership, the head mechanic always made a stink over stems set too high. He wanted the expander to be below the threaded section of the fork tube. Raleighs don't have a keyway cut into the tube, so it may not be as critical, but what he told me about failures there stuck with me all these years. This stem looks like the expander is up under the threads. Great choice of saddle. This bike may have originally had a Brooks since it seems to be a premium model. Nice Bike.

It came with a brown B66s. The previous owner might have swapped it.

alexnagui 06-12-19 10:24 AM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 20975003)
If you've not got a chain link tool, get one (Park makes the best I've had so far), get some scrap chain and see if you can remove and reinstall links properly. Its not hard.

Totally agree on the chain link tool! Without it it's a PITA

Ged117 06-12-19 10:46 AM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 20975003)
The problem here is that the chain tension (or lack thereof) has to be correct- you can just move the wheel around. Generally about 1/2" to 3/4" deflection in the middle of the chain if you pull it up with your fingers. That governs the position of the wheel.

If the wheel is all the way back things get tricky. One reason it might be there is the chain is shot. Another might be because its too long. But taking a link out might make it too short. You can buy half links (ebay) to solve the latter problem. If you've not got a chain link tool, get one (Park makes the best I've had so far), get some scrap chain and see if you can remove and reinstall links properly. Its not hard.

That shouldn't be an issue since I got rid of the old original 70 year old chain. The new one is easy to deal with and I've got a Park chain tool that works very well. I put the wheel all the way back in the drop outs when I reassembled; it was originally in the middle of the dropouts and I'm going to put it back in the original position as found, and will set up the Cyclo external derailer with the full chain and see what the deflection will be. Thanks for that suggestion. I'm going to refit it tonight.

nlerner 06-12-19 12:54 PM

More than once, I've put in the low-gear pawls backwards (or the opposite orientation that they're supposed to go), which then meant that first-gear didn't work. You might want to check that!

jackbombay 06-12-19 06:58 PM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 20975332)
More than once, I've put in the low-gear pawls backwards (or the opposite orientation that they're supposed to go), which then meant that first-gear didn't work. You might want to check that!

I did get it working correctly by watching a youtube vid :-)

sykerocker 06-13-19 09:18 AM


Originally Posted by tigervw78 (Post 20974025)
Just saw these on CL. Men's and Ladies All Gold Editions.

https://northmiss.craigslist.org/bik...907727264.html

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4ce0e821ef.jpg

Anybody near this location interested? I wish I was closer.

I just got off the phone with the guy. A couple of days ago I'd emailed him, explaining to him how you figure out the year of the S-A hub. He called me about twenty minutes ago after I texted him a pic of one of my inventory hubs to show him the details.

Seems like a pretty decent guy, during the course of the conversation I casually mentioned that, while not totally unreasonable, his price was a little high given the condition of the bikes. He's had an offer of $100.00 for the pair, is trying to get a something closer to $150.00 for them. They're 67's (from the hub), and he's owned them since new. The usual 'haven't ridden them in years, let them sit forgotten in the rafters' situation.

They guy's name is Winston, and his phone number is 205-570-3400 (he had no qualms about giving me his number, so I'll assume he's not going to complain is someone from the group contacts him regarding the bike).

tigervw78 06-13-19 12:22 PM


Originally Posted by sykerocker (Post 20976744)
I just got off the phone with the guy. A couple of days ago I'd emailed him, explaining to him how you figure out the year of the S-A hub. He called me about twenty minutes ago after I texted him a pic of one of my inventory hubs to show him the details.

Seems like a pretty decent guy, during the course of the conversation I casually mentioned that, while not totally unreasonable, his price was a little high given the condition of the bikes. He's had an offer of $100.00 for the pair, is trying to get a something closer to $150.00 for them. They're 67's (from the hub), and he's owned them since new. The usual 'haven't ridden them in years, let them sit forgotten in the rafters' situation.

They guy's name is Winston, and his phone number is 205-570-3400 (he had no qualms about giving me his number, so I'll assume he's not going to complain is someone from the group contacts him regarding the bike).

Thanks for the great info. Did he happen to say what size the men's frame is? Looks like a 21", but it's hard to tell since he didn't provide a side photo. I'm 2.5 hrs away. A little too far round trip.

dweenk 06-13-19 02:18 PM


Originally Posted by tigervw78 (Post 20977078)
Thanks for the great info. Did he happen to say what size the men's frame is? Looks like a 21", but it's hard to tell since he didn't provide a side photo. I'm 2.5 hrs away. A little too far round trip.

I looked through the photos in the ad the seller posted and I can't help but think that these bikes spent a bit of time on the gulf coast, or more time outside in any place away from the coast. I don't think that the chrome is toast, but it is nasty along with rust spots through the paint. Both are too small and too far away for me. Maybe $100 for the pair at best - nice color though.

sykerocker 06-13-19 03:18 PM


Originally Posted by tigervw78 (Post 20977078)
Thanks for the great info. Did he happen to say what size the men's frame is? Looks like a 21", but it's hard to tell since he didn't provide a side photo. I'm 2.5 hrs away. A little too far round trip.

Didn't think of asking, but there's nowhere near enough space on the head tube for that to be a 23-1/2". It's gotta be a 21-1/2".

And it's not one of the standard catalog colors for 1967. The guy is originally from Southern California, that's where they were bought. Decades in the rafters, forgotten, will kill any finish.

ryansu 06-13-19 04:10 PM


Originally Posted by alexnagui (Post 20975027)
Totally agree on the chain link tool! Without it it's a PITA

Plus one on the Park Chain link tool, you hear that you don't need a tool to undo a power link/quick link chain but I have found that to be bs, I have tried many ways shown on youtube etc with little success but the chain link tool makes it a breeze. I have been free of pin connector chains about a decade now.

gster 06-14-19 04:41 AM


Originally Posted by ryansu (Post 20977486)
Plus one on the Park Chain link tool, you hear that you don't need a tool to undo a power link/quick link chain but I have found that to be bs, I have tried many ways shown on youtube etc with little success but the chain link tool makes it a breeze. I have been free of pin connector chains about a decade now.

The co op down the street (Bike Pirates) sells those quick link chains for $15.00.
I've got one on a bike and another waiting to be installed.

BigChief 06-14-19 05:29 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 20978113)
The co op down the street (Bike Pirates) sells those quick link chains for $15.00.
I've got one on a bike and another waiting to be installed.

All of my bikes still have the old fashioned master links with the little clip. I like the look of these quick links. I see a change for me here, but I would want a pair of those special pliers. I can see needle nose pliers slipping off and pinching my fingers.

paulb_in_bkln 06-14-19 05:39 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 20978113)
The co op down the street (Bike Pirates) sells those quick link chains for $15.00.
I've got one on a bike and another waiting to be installed.

The master links with the plate on one side open with any pliers, but the ones with two symmetric pieces, it's tough without those special ones. Is one better than the other? No idea.

jackbombay 06-14-19 07:49 AM

The special pliers make dealing with the power links really easy! You can use the pliers to get the link to click into the locked position in addition to using them to undo the links. I do periodically remove my chains to clean them in a jar of laquer thinner so I use the pliers regularly. Cleaning my chains like that really increases chain life.

Alloyboy 06-14-19 10:16 AM

Things you already know.
 
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c91451d394.jpg

Remember extra links needed going from 18 teeth to a 22. Old faithful link splitter does wonders.
I have my old faithful chain link thingy for many years.

Alloyboy 06-14-19 10:39 AM

Special thanks to Dan Burkhart for the 22 tooth cog.


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