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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

gster 06-15-20 09:58 PM


Originally Posted by jackbombay (Post 21536061)
Looks like improper hardening of the sun gear led to failure? Or????

I have been putting some serious smash on the cranks on this bike lately, but I've done that will all my sturmey products for some time, not sure why this sun gear just decided to quit.

https://i.postimg.cc/d1Dn6T54/FD2171...2E74708675.jpg

I think that's a sign of an over tightened hub.....
I found a sun gear with the same wear pattern on
a bike a while back.

jackbombay 06-15-20 10:18 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 21536368)
I think that's a sign of an over tightened hub.....
I found a sun gear with the same wear pattern on
a bike a while back.

The hub had some slack in it for sure, somehow this hub with the large diameter left side bearing to accommodate the coaster brake was really tough to get adjusted as I like them and this one was actually looser than I run an AW of mine that has thousands of miles on it.

Numberfourson 06-16-20 05:22 AM

Royal York
 
Can anyone help with a part source for Sturmey Archer hubs? My hub is an SW and dated 1958.
I am in need of an indicator pin.

Salubrious 06-16-20 10:03 AM


Originally Posted by Numberfourson (Post 21536576)
Can anyone help with a part source for Sturmey Archer hubs? My hub is an SW and dated 1958.
I am in need of an indicator pin.

Watch ebay. If I'm not mistaken, the toggle chain/indicator pin assembly is the same as seen in the 4-speed hubs. I like the SW for its range, but its propensity to slip is really annoying. I think if the pawls were made of a better material and modern lubricants used, this might be solvable. If the hub has not seen much use your pawls might be OK. I don't know what might be considered a good lubricant but I would consider some sort of transmission fluid.

clubman 06-16-20 11:15 AM


Originally Posted by jackbombay (Post 21536061)
Looks like improper hardening of the sun gear led to failure? Or????

You got it right. They don't make em like they used to, it appears.

jackbombay 06-16-20 11:31 AM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 21537216)
You got it right. They don't make em like they used to, it appears.

I've been a huge fan of sturmeys for 30+ years, and I've always run "made in England" ones, but I'm looking at replacing this hub with a brand new one for the sake of reliability, it will certainly take away some of the appeal of the bike for me, but this bike will get ridden long and hard and I just can't get into that mentally if I'm questioning my equipment :-(

Salubrious 06-16-20 11:41 AM


Originally Posted by jackbombay (Post 21537240)
I've been a huge fan of sturmeys for 30+ years, and I've always run "made in England" ones, but I'm looking at replacing this hub with a brand new one for the sake of reliability, it will certainly take away some of the appeal of the bike for me, but this bike will get ridden long and hard and I just can't get into that mentally if I'm questioning my equipment :-(

If you want a coaster brake SA hub, I've got one free if you're willing to take care of the shipping. PM if interested.

jackbombay 06-16-20 12:07 PM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 21537253)
If you want a coaster brake SA hub, I've got one free if you're willing to take care of the shipping. PM if interested.

AWC 40 hole? It seems many of the earlier models have issues of some sort or another, which I found out the hard way with this S3C :-(

JaccoW 06-16-20 01:10 PM

Just picked up a Dutch Gazelle tandem with a Sturmey Archer AB hub from '79 for a mere €55 ($62)
The rear hub needs some work as the 3rd gear works for a short while before suddenly locking up completely. At least I managed to ride it back home at a briskly pace after picking it up 9 km (5.5 miles) away.
In second gear I still managed to propel it to 25-30 kph (15-19 mph) easily on the way home so everything else runs fairly smooth. :D

http://i.imgur.com/A5DZrhCh.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Hhwy5Ddh.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/INCQKy9h.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/SWFzZc8h.jpg

jackbombay 06-16-20 01:14 PM

I love that bike!

Salubrious 06-16-20 01:41 PM


Originally Posted by jackbombay (Post 21537290)
AWC 40 hole? It seems many of the earlier models have issues of some sort or another, which I found out the hard way with this S3C :-(

I'll check.

Harhir 06-16-20 03:49 PM

That Gazelle looks awesome. But there is quite a but if rust around the rear hub. Looks like you have your work cut out.
I have an 88 Gazelle which uses the Sachs Torpedo 3 speed. The coaster brake was hardly working anymore because of all the hardened grease. I think this hub was never serviced. Opened it cleaned it and re-lubricated it again. Now it works like new.
I have had bikes with Sachs 3 speed hubs since the 70s. I grew in Germany and they were everywhere back then. My favorite is the Sachs/SRAM Spectro 3x7. I have got this hub on 3 bikes. Basically bullet proof. However I had a clutch failure and a flange failure on on one of mine about two years ago. Since the local bike stores rejected to work on the internal gear hubs I decided to learn it myself. These are really no rocket science. So whenever one pops up cheap on ebay I grab it since parts are getting rare.

jackbombay 06-16-20 05:01 PM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 21537253)
If you want a coaster brake SA hub, I've got one free if you're willing to take care of the shipping. PM if interested.

I decided to go with a new SA 3 speed, was a bit of a tough decision, but there are certainly some benefits to it, I think. I have some arguably stupid rides lined up for this bike and need it to be pretty reliable, hopefully the new S-RC3 will fit the bill for me. I will give riding impressions once its laced up and in the bike :-)

JaccoW 06-17-20 02:36 AM


Originally Posted by Harhir (Post 21537697)
That Gazelle looks awesome. But there is quite a but if rust around the rear hub. Looks like you have your work cut out.
I have an 88 Gazelle which uses the Sachs Torpedo 3 speed. The coaster brake was hardly working anymore because of all the hardened grease. I think this hub was never serviced. Opened it cleaned it and re-lubricated it again. Now it works like new.
I have had bikes with Sachs 3 speed hubs since the 70s. I grew in Germany and they were everywhere back then. My favorite is the Sachs/SRAM Spectro 3x7. I have got this hub on 3 bikes. Basically bullet proof. However I had a clutch failure and a flange failure on on one of mine about two years ago. Since the local bike stores rejected to work on the internal gear hubs I decided to learn it myself. These are really no rocket science. So whenever one pops up cheap on ebay I grab it since parts are getting rare.

I have been playing around with the 3-speed and 5-speed models a lot lately so I can probably take it apart and back together in under an hour.
This one however is getting a full disassembly first and deep clean in a sonic cleaner. Let's hope the insides aren't too bad otherwise I will have to pick up a replacement hub somewhere.
They are cheap and common around here so that shouldn't be a problem. I had one of those Sachs 3-speed hubs on a Koga-Miyata. Worked pretty well though the brake arm was a bit weird.

Though when looking at an example I came across a set of the modern 5-speed RXL-RD5 and matching 90mm XL-FDD dynohub front and rear hubs, so I might just rebuild the wheels with modern hubs. :D
But let's just allow the WD-40 to do its work first and take a look at it this weekend.

gster 06-17-20 06:52 AM

Never Try...
This bike was originally listed for sale as a 70's Raleigh Sports with an asking price of $200.00
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...1b86183052.jpg
I replied to the seller that the bike was older than he thought and to check the hub for a date.
He's now re listed the bike as a 1958 and after hearing from "a Raleigh Expert" has upped the price
to $500.00!

Another Story
This Superbe was given to a friend's daughter a couple of years ago after her bike was stolen.
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2aeed4cc14.jpg
She's moved on to another bike and this came back to me.
There's a neighbourhood handy man that needs a bike and
the small frame will suit him.

JJScaliger 06-17-20 03:22 PM


Originally Posted by jackbombay (Post 21536061)
Looks like improper hardening of the sun gear led to failure? Or????

I have been putting some serious smash on the cranks on this bike lately, but I've done that will all my sturmey products for some time, not sure why this sun gear just decided to quit.

https://i.postimg.cc/d1Dn6T54/FD2171...2E74708675.jpg


Yeow! That's some hardcore shredding!

jackbombay 06-17-20 05:58 PM


Originally Posted by JJScaliger (Post 21539407)
Yeow! That's some hardcore shredding!

I'm feeling pretty tough right now, outside of a city I'm sure I could put down a sub 6 hour solo century as long as it didn't have a ton of climbing, and a week ago I went out with plans to ride this hub/bike 50 miles and I went so hard for 2 hours (in a city, lot of stops wrecking average speed) that I had to call it quits at 36 miles, considering how easily I've been blowing down centuries lately it took some pretty serious self abuse to empty the tank in 2 hours. Its kind of a bucket list item though, "Blew up NOS sturmey hub in 350 miles." Although this one does have a weak 3rd according to Sheldon Brown, I don't think its possible for a guy to my size (164 pounds currently) to blow up an AW with the 46/20 gearing that I'm running.

gster 06-18-20 08:22 AM

here's my mangled sun gear...
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9b6657de3a.jpg
this came out of a 1972 hub....

Salubrious 06-18-20 11:20 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 21540437)
here's my mangled sun gear...

this came out of a 1972 hub....

That doesn't look mangled so much as it looks really worn. A definitive lack of oil would be my first surmise...

gster 06-18-20 12:25 PM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 21540774)
That doesn't look mangled so much as it looks really worn. A definitive lack of oil would be my first surmise...

You never know how a 50 year old bike has been treated over the years.
This one came to me with a very tight hub that wouldn't shift.
The standard adjusting/flushing methods didn't work and I opened it
up to find the sun gear ground down to almost nothing.
The rest of the hub seamed fine.....

Salubrious 06-18-20 12:39 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 21540915)
You never know how a 50 year old bike has been treated over the years.
This one came to me with a very tight hub that wouldn't shift.
The standard adjusting/flushing methods didn't work and I opened it
up to find the sun gear ground down to almost nothing.
The rest of the hub seamed fine.....

True! Do you think someone had set the cones too tight?

gster 06-18-20 06:55 PM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 21540944)
True! Do you think someone had set the cones too tight?

That was my thought.
I've seen lots of dirty, rusty, gunky hubs but never damage
like this example.
Also, it wasn't a sudden failure.
It's possible that one spline could fail.
This shows a consistent and uniform wear pattern.
over a course of time.

jackbombay 06-18-20 10:48 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 21540437)
here's my mangled sun gear...
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9b6657de3a.jpg
this came out of a 1972 hub....

Huh I've opened up half a dozen or so AW hubs, but have never seen any appreciable wear on any part inside the hub, odd that this sun gear was seemingly worn away. The teeth on my sun gear were broken off, and the sun gear on this S3C hub is part of the axle.

I did get a brand new SRC3 (II) hub today, I'm excited to get it laced up and ride it, but I also feel like a bit of a traitor what with this not being made in England, and now the bike lost it's oldest part. The frame is from 1988 so I will still be able to pot about this bike on the C&V page, but maybe not in this thread?? ;-)

gster 06-19-20 07:39 AM

NASA has several test papers on sun gear failures due to poor lubrication.
https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/c...9920021153.pdf

jackbombay 06-19-20 10:05 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 21542222)
sun gear failures due to poor lubrication.

That reminds me, I'm not to stoked on the lack of an oiling port, I recall reading something a while back about adding one, it would certainly be easier now without the wheel built up, hmmm...


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