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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

wahoonc 12-16-12 07:19 AM


Originally Posted by Schwinnsta (Post 15052991)
I used one these LED bulbs on my DL-1. http://www.home.earthlink.net/~stein...erchandise.htm

It works well. I replaced the tail light bulb with a red LED light 12 Volt for an auto dash board that has a wedge base.

Same thing here. The lights do strobe a bit at low speeds but once up to speed the effect is all but gone.

Reflectalite in the UK has LED conversion bulbs as well as a bridge rectifier that can be placed across the terminals of the dynohub.

Aaron :)

clasher 12-16-12 08:49 PM

I've snagged some e10 LEDs off ebay and they worked really well for a friend. The price can't be beat, even though they lack a standlight I still think it's a huge upgrade over the stock bulbs. I put 'em on any bike I work on for friends or to flip. I haven't seen flange style bulbs this cheap though.

Super.bee 12-17-12 10:47 AM

S-A history question/survey here:

Does anyone know for certain when the no-in-between-gear version of the AW replaced the earlier version - when the old version was not offered any longer? I have see Sheldon's site which says 'sometime around 1990' and I have seen on the forums here that S-A pioneered such a design (NIG) for Columbia in, alternately, the 1970s or 1984. But that's a lot of room in there, plus I can't tell whether the old design persisted after any given date.

I am thinking about picking up a 1987 AW solely because it may be the newer design. Anyone know for certain? If so, the info could I think be helpful to a number of folks. If not, I can snag this hub, open it and report back to offer at least one data point, hammer and punch willing...

Also (whispering)... does anyone have any tips or experience re: brazing two or three cogs together for a cyclo-type adaptation? (6 or 9 speeds, but my heart is in the right place I think)

Thanks!

yellowbarber 12-17-12 12:25 PM

You shouldn't have to braze the sprockets together. Just take out all the spacers between the lockring and the driver and stack them in the appropriate order.

Originally Posted by Super.bee (Post 15059244)

Also (whispering)... does anyone have any tips or experience re: brazing two or three cogs together for a cyclo-type adaptation? (6 or 9 speeds, but my heart is in the right place I think)

Thanks!


jonwvara 12-17-12 12:47 PM


Originally Posted by yellowbarber (Post 15059656)
You shouldn't have to braze the sprockets together. Just take out all the spacers between the lockring and the driver and stack them in the appropriate order.

You can easily do that with two (my Sprite has 24 and 28 cogs on an AW, with a 52 in front), although you will likely need to exchange the original axle for a longer one. I'm dubious about three cogs, though--I suspect you would have to braze the outermost (smallest) cog in place for that to work.
JV

yellowbarber 12-17-12 01:00 PM

nevermind, don't know what I'm talking about.
Here's some pics from a '62 convertible with a cyclo setup that I haven't disassembled yet - I just assumed that there are no spacers between the sprockets, but apparently, there are - plus they appear to be slightly different that the single cogs we put on our garden variety AWs.
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=288883
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=288884

noglider 12-17-12 01:20 PM

Pictures no workie.

PalmettoUpstate 12-17-12 10:30 PM


Originally Posted by Schwinnsta (Post 15052991)
I used one these LED bulbs on my DL-1. http://www.home.earthlink.net/~stein...erchandise.htm

It works well. I replaced the tail light bulb with a red LED light 12 Volt for an auto dash board that has a wedge base.

Still trying to figure out this LED light stuff.

Given your "handle" thought you might be interested in knowing that I picked up 2 Schwinn Speedsters in the last 10 or so days...

...a red '74 SA AW 3-speed and a yellow '73 single speed.

Both filet-brazed and beautiful bikes.

PalmettoUpstate 12-17-12 10:32 PM


Originally Posted by clasher (Post 15057707)
I've snagged some e10 LEDs off ebay and they worked really well for a friend. The price can't be beat, even though they lack a standlight I still think it's a huge upgrade over the stock bulbs. I put 'em on any bike I work on for friends or to flip. I haven't seen flange style bulbs this cheap though.

Good info; many thanks!

Super.bee 12-17-12 11:32 PM


Originally Posted by jonwvara (Post 15059730)
You can easily do that with two (my Sprite has 24 and 28 cogs on an AW, with a 52 in front), although you will likely need to exchange the original axle for a longer one.
JV

Wow, thanks, I never thought of that. Did you redish the wheel? I wonder if there's any pattern to which AW-equipped bikes had longer axles. I guess that's the reason for the various indicator rods. By the way that sounds like pretty great gearing.


Originally Posted by jonwvara (Post 15059730)
I'm dubious about three cogs, though--I suspect you would have to braze the outermost (smallest) cog in place for that to work.
JV

Best done by a framebuilder? Are we just talking brazing here, no mechanical interlocking of the cogs?

oldroads 12-25-12 08:32 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Finally finished this '53:

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=290101

oldroads 12-25-12 08:33 AM

Finally finished this '53:

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=290101

auchencrow 12-25-12 09:01 AM

Nice, oldroads! (I have a '53 just like it, but yours looks minty compared to mine! )


Originally Posted by oldroads (Post 15085871)


Doohickie 12-26-12 01:56 AM

I got my DL-1 back on the road this week with a wheel rebuild (thanks, Yellow Jersey in Madison, WI). It rides like a Cadillac.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...1/IMG_1860.jpg

wahoonc 12-26-12 07:35 AM


Originally Posted by Doohickie (Post 15087726)
I got my DL-1 back on the road this week with a wheel rebuild (thanks, Yellow Jersey in Madison, WI). It rides like a Cadillac.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...1/IMG_1860.jpg

Did you just send them the hub? I have one wheel that hops that I don't think I can work the hop out of it.

Aaron :)

loubapache 12-26-12 07:38 AM

WOW, these old roadsters are really nice. I grew up with copies of these (Forever and Flying Pigeon) and those were my transportations until I moved to this country. Always wanted one of these, even the copies.

Thanks for the pic.

Doohickie 12-26-12 09:43 AM


Originally Posted by wahoonc (Post 15087906)
Did you just send them the hub? I have one wheel that hops that I don't think I can work the hop out of it.

Aaron :)

Yes. Basically, for $100 per wheel (plus shipping), they will sell you a new rim, the spokes and assemble them all to a hub you send them. From TX to WI and back was 8 days total time. They will turn the wheel around in 24 hours after they get it.

The one caveat I will issue is that they can only work with the materials they've got; in my case, one wheel (the rear) still has a little hop. I can't feel it when riding, but when I stop I can feel the pulse a bit in the brakes. On the front I can feel it too, but much less. There is a weld seem opposite the valve hole and there is nothing you can do about it; there's a little flat spot (and very limited supplies of these rims). It's the nature of rod brake bikes.

Having said that, the new wheels, while not perfect, are SO much better than they were before the rebuild.

Oh, and they used double butted spokes in the build.

Sixty Fiver 12-26-12 10:11 AM


Originally Posted by Doohickie (Post 15087726)
I got my DL-1 back on the road this week with a wheel rebuild (thanks, Yellow Jersey in Madison, WI). It rides like a Cadillac.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...1/IMG_1860.jpg

Looks wonderful.

Just a note on rebuilding old hubs with new spokes... The elbows are designed for wider flanges so spoke washers should be used to ensure that the spokes seat properly.

yellowbarber 12-26-12 10:43 AM

2 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by noglider (Post 15059820)
Pictures no workie.

cyclo pics - take two
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=290286
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=290287

jrecoi 12-26-12 06:49 PM

Been poking around the Colombian bike shops again, and I found another 28" Aluminium rim, a "GW" rim made in Medellin. This one is Westwood pattern only, good for either hub brakes or rod brakes. It is quite a bit heavier than the Ciclo Torres rim, weighing in at 750g, but it feels much sturdier. The extra material makes it cost more though, something like 20% more. It is also doesn't quite look as good; with the usual 28" tire, it looks like a small tire on a wide rim. This GW rim is 36 holes like the Ciclo Torres rim

Interesting notes, a Formula track hub will lace 4X on a Ciclo Torres rim, using 308mm spokes, 306-307mm spoke are probably more appropriate, but some careful filing and rim tape will cover the difference nicely.

As an aside, it is a pity that no one here has managed to make fat mountain bike tires for 635 rims, the mountain bike scene is getting pretty decent, and a home grown 29ner (30ier?) would be a good possibility.

Has anyone fitted 700c Surlys with 28" roadster rims and tires? If they fit, this can be beneficial to those who tour places where 700c is not easily available, at least if they use disc brakes.

Salubrious 12-27-12 10:16 PM

I just picked up a 72 Superbe. It seems to be all there, although seen a fair bit of abuse as one might expect. The rims are hopeless- that is if one wants them to look like the real originals. I'm not caring about that too much, I've had this idea of upgrading the bike (and no intentions at all of repainting!). IOW alloy rims to replace the severely rusted originals, perhaps an alloy seatpost and I have a beautiful set of alloy bars similar to the steel originals. But I really want to retain as much of the original character as I can, so this stuff, if I do it all, will be experimental with the original parts carefully saved...

Right away I have issues though. Someone took the front hub apart incorrectly. The manual says to adjust the cones on the side away from the Dynohub stator... So somehow I have to correct the cones on the Dyno side which are now loose. Any tips? The Dyno works fine BTW.

The rear hub does not seem to have 1st gear (stays in second). Gummed up? I plan to flush a bit of Kroil through it to see if it will come around. Is there a ready replacement for the brake pads? mine are perished.

No photos yet- my one camera is getting a new shutter. The bike is in bits right now anyway. I'm excited to ride it though- always been a big fan of three speeds.

fietsbob 12-27-12 10:40 PM

had a Cyclo Cluster , with 3 cogs on my Puch/ J.C.Higgins I had back when Kennedy was still Breathing ..
a derailleur/ IGH hybrid .. Ah Youth .. :50:

agmetal 12-27-12 11:38 PM

Going shopping for new pedals for my newly-acquired Raleigh tomorrow...anything weird with the pedal threading, or are they just a standard 9/16" spindle?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v8...225_124148.jpg

conradpdx 12-28-12 12:26 AM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 15094050)
I just picked up a 72 Superbe. It seems to be all there, although seen a fair bit of abuse as one might expect. The rims are hopeless- that is if one wants them to look like the real originals. I'm not caring about that too much, I've had this idea of upgrading the bike (and no intentions at all of repainting!). IOW alloy rims to replace the severely rusted originals, perhaps an alloy seatpost and I have a beautiful set of alloy bars similar to the steel originals. But I really want to retain as much of the original character as I can, so this stuff, if I do it all, will be experimental with the original parts carefully saved...

Right away I have issues though. Someone took the front hub apart incorrectly. The manual says to adjust the cones on the side away from the Dynohub stator... So somehow I have to correct the cones on the Dyno side which are now loose. Any tips? The Dyno works fine BTW.

The rear hub does not seem to have 1st gear (stays in second). Gummed up? I plan to flush a bit of Kroil through it to see if it will come around. Is there a ready replacement for the brake pads? mine are perished.

No photos yet- my one camera is getting a new shutter. The bike is in bits right now anyway. I'm excited to ride it though- always been a big fan of three speeds.

Rims probably aren't hopeless. Try a little water and scrub with Aluminium foil. Raleigh chrome was very thick and you'd be amazed at how much will come off with a little elbow grease.

As far as the hub goes, go for a ride and try adjusting it. If it seems like there is no 1st odds are the line is way too tight or way too loose. Are you sure it's the hub? is the shift cable hung up? Check the fulcrum wheel as well, if loose it'll affect shifting, as would problems with the shifter make sure you lube it up too. Regardless, fill the hub with WD-40 of some other cleaning agent and ride it (if possible-if not let it sit for week and go out and spin the wheel a few times every day) for about 20 miles or so. Then drain it, and oil it properly and it'll most likely be ready to go.

Upgrades are up to you, I still run on steel rims in rainy Portland and have adjusted my ride style to make up for the lack of stopping power. I haven't upgraded them because I'm pretty sure it will likely dramatically effect the ride quality and for me that is priority number one. Alloy doesn't flex like steel does, and thus shouldn't absorb the road as much as steel. And to top it all off my 40+ year old rims still run true and straight with little more than a light truing on the bike once or twice a year.

Cones on S&A products are usually slightly loose. How loose are they? I've never had this problem with a dyno so I haven't looked into it. But I'm sure there is something online that address this issue.

As for the the alloy handlebars and seat tube, not sure they'd make much of a difference. Again hit em with foil and water and you'll likely be amazed.

Lastly congratz on the Superbe and welcome to the club.

Sixty Fiver 12-28-12 12:55 AM

Conrad... I will have to keep an eye out for an old Superbe crawling through the rain. :)

Upgrading to alloy rims and better brake pads is one of the best things you can do for these old bikes, you might see a guy bombing around on a green Raleigh 20 and most likely, that will be me.

I have upgraded the rims on this bike and many other bikes here and up north.

jonwvara 12-28-12 11:27 AM

I was using 27" wheels I'd built for the Sprite, but the dish is slight, as I recall--probably just a couple of mm. I'd used a similar setup on a Raleigh Sports with the 26" steel rims, and the amount of redish required was also very slight.
I like the gear ratios a lot. Six regular speeds--77.2 67.1, 57.9, 49.6, 43.4, and 37.2. That's not a very high top gear, but c'mon, we're talking about a 38-lb. bike with upright handlebars. If you wanted, you could get the same even spacing but much higher gearing with an 18/21 combo in back.
I also have a second chainring in front. You can't do that with a Raleigh Sports-type crankset, as far as I know, but my Sprite had the cottered steel Nervar crankset that was also used on the Record and Grand Prix, which accepts a second chainring if you use longer bolts and spacers. That ring is a 36, which I think is as small as you can go on that BCD. (Not sure what it is--116 or some odd thing?) Anyway, I only use the small ring on the big cog, and it gives me a 33.4 in second on the AW, and an ultra-low 25.0 in first.
According to Raleigh, you're not supposed to use an input ratio of less than 2/1 with an AW (a 48 chainring shouldn't use a cog smaller than 24, for example). The issue is that too much torque will bust something in the workings of the AW. I'm obviously way below 2/1, but Mark Stonich at Bikesmith designs told me that very low input ratios don't cause problems as long as you don't used them with in the high gear on the hub. I only use mine in 1 and 2, and have had no problems so far.
I use the small chainring infrequently--just to get up a few very long steep climbs around here--so I've never bothered with a front derailleur--I just get off and shift by hand. That will also allow me to add a Sprite chainguard, if I can ever find one.
Changing to a longer axle isn't really that hard. It was my only foray into the mysterious inner workings of a hub gear. I got the longer axle from Harris--not sure if they still have them.
I don't know a thing about brazing together a home-brewed 3-cog rear. I once owned a manufactured Cyclo unit--they're scarce, and seem to come only in tooth counts that don't strike me as especially useful--but getting hold of one might be the best guide to cooking up something similar.
JV



Originally Posted by Super.bee (Post 15061832)
Wow, thanks, I never thought of that. Did you redish the wheel? I wonder if there's any pattern to which AW-equipped bikes had longer axles. I guess that's the reason for the various indicator rods. By the way that sounds like pretty great gearing.



Best done by a framebuilder? Are we just talking brazing here, no mechanical interlocking of the cogs?


Salubrious 12-28-12 11:45 AM


Originally Posted by conradpdx (Post 15094370)
Rims probably aren't hopeless. Try a little water and scrub with Aluminium foil. Raleigh chrome was very thick and you'd be amazed at how much will come off with a little elbow grease.

Thanks for the tip! :)

As far as the hub goes, go for a ride and try adjusting it. If it seems like there is no 1st odds are the line is way too tight or way too loose. Are you sure it's the hub? is the shift cable hung up? Check the fulcrum wheel as well, if loose it'll affect shifting, as would problems with the shifter make sure you lube it up too.
The shifter feels like it has issues of its own, nothing that a bit of oil won't solve. But the cable was not tight in low. Curiously, on the stand its obvious that 1st is indeed there, so the shift is now under suspicion.

Upgrades are up to you, I still run on steel rims in rainy Portland and have adjusted my ride style to make up for the lack of stopping power. I haven't upgraded them because I'm pretty sure it will likely dramatically effect the ride quality and for me that is priority number one. Alloy doesn't flex like steel does, and thus shouldn't absorb the road as much as steel. And to top it all off my 40+ year old rims still run true and straight with little more than a light truing on the bike once or twice a year.
I'm just looking to loose a little weight if I can, and some off the bike too :) But if it messes with the initial character of the machine I'm not interested. So right now its mostly restoration, once there then I can study the alternatives.

Cones on S&A products are usually slightly loose. How loose are they? I've never had this problem with a dyno so I haven't looked into it. But I'm sure there is something online that address this issue.
when I took the wheel off the bike the cones were way too tight! But this is because the nut on the Dyno side is loose and allows the cone to rotate with the axle. The guy I got this from said he rode it recently; I have to imagine the ride was dreadful with all the bugs I've found. I found a hollow spacer on the Dyno side. If I had to guess I would say it does not belong there- it was interfering with the ability to lock the nut against the cone. So right now my plan is to install a washer in its stead so I can set the Dyno side cone and be done with it. I think that spacer was making removal of the wheel from the fork harder than it should have been too. That fork is pretty stiff!

Is there a source for keys for the fork lock?


Lastly congratz on the Superbe and welcome to the club.
Thanks! :)

conradpdx 12-28-12 05:46 PM

I found a local old school locksmith that had access to (non Raleigh) blanks for my Superbe. Cost me $20 or $25 for a master and a spare. Every now and then you can find Raleigh blanks on Ebay (though don't bid till I get mine...lol). The locksmith did say that his key wholesaler (whom he had to order the blanks from) said he only had a few left.

Gotta go to an old timer locksmith to even find the info. I believe the key catalog we were looking at when we found it was from about 2002 or so, which leads me to believe it's when that blank was probably last made.

And 65'r feel free to stop me should you see me, the thing that stands out the most on my ride is the new Brooks B17 in honey that I won in the Tweed ride last year for best bike (I still think it was a sympathy vote/win cause the B72 that came with the bike tore out about a month before the ride and I was using a newer Schwinn Cruiser seat till I saved enough for a replacement). Just recently got another old B72 and trying to decide if I should swap it out...Not sure I kinda like the honey color better than the black, but the 72 is so much more comfortable). I also got a bee bell, an old school rectangular mirror, and a vintage-ish frame lock on the back or the seat stays on it as well. But I'll keep an eye out for a 20...not like there are many of them around town either.

Though I'm sure I'll be at the Tweed again this year, and I hope to do an Adventure League ride or two as well.

adventurepdx 12-29-12 01:59 AM


Originally Posted by conradpdx (Post 15096212)
And 65'r feel free to stop me should you see me, the thing that stands out the most on my ride is the new Brooks B17 in honey that I won in the Tweed ride last year for best bike (I still think it was a sympathy vote/win cause the B72 that came with the bike tore out about a month before the ride and I was using a newer Schwinn Cruiser seat till I saved enough for a replacement).

Yeah, you are right on the sympathy vote thing. But keep that under your hat, as we don't want a bunch of people taking off their perfectly good Brooks saddles and replacing it with some pos they found in the free box at Citybikes right before the ride so they have a better shot of winning this year. ;)


Originally Posted by conradpdx (Post 15096212)
Though I'm sure I'll be at the Tweed again this year, and I hope to do an Adventure League ride or two as well.

Hope to see you on either!

conradpdx 12-29-12 10:26 AM


Originally Posted by adventurepdx (Post 15097249)
Yeah, you are right on the sympathy vote thing. But keep that under your hat, as we don't want a bunch of people taking off their perfectly good Brooks saddles and replacing it with some pos they found in the free box at Citybikes right before the ride so they have a better shot of winning this year. ;)




Hope to see you on either!

I went to that ride just to gawk at other 3 speeds and old bikes (and as an excuse to check out the "new" Velocult)...I didn't even know when I went that there was prizes.

Though honestly that ride is what made me consider not upgrading my rims, seeing that a couple Tourists with rod brakes could make the journey in the pouring rain at the end of the ride down the Sandy Ridge in Alameda make me think it wasn't necessary and I haven't looked back.

Though now that I've got the dyno set and all the glitz that goes with the Superbe, I'm thinking of making a winter bike too. IGH/Drum seems to be the way to go. Perhaps something I can better haul a trailer with - I don't know why but I've got a fever to do about 20 mile round trips to Costco on a bike with a full load.

Some want to cross the country, some want to go real fast, some want miles of single track, I just want to go to Costco. (gawd, I'm getting old).


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