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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

noglider 12-07-13 02:07 PM

The Park FFS-1 (and I guess FFS-2) is a brute of a tool, but yeah, it works great. rhm suggested that I take a little rake out of the fork on my Raleigh Twenty. I asked him how much, and he said, "Some." :lol: So that's exactly what I did. I can't say if it's better, worse, or indifferent, but I did it. While I was at it, I spread the fork to accept a 100-mm front hub. I'm using a Sturmey Archer drum brake hub. I also spread the tangs (?) of the fork tips to accept the wider axle.

I've rebuilt many Raleigh wheels by reusing the spokes. I know some wouldn't want to take the chance with 50 year old spokes, and I respect that. If you're building a wheel for someone other than yourself, it's the better choice, because you really don't know how worthy the spokes will be. But all the wheels I've done this with have held up just fine. I almost always have to grind down the ends, which is a PITA, but in the end, the result is good. They're not pretty spokes (as they're not stainless steel), but they seem to be good spokes.

Sixty Fiver 12-07-13 06:05 PM

I have re-laced old Raleigh wheels to new rims with the stock zinc plated spokes... their quality is much better than people give them credit for and sometimes the old wheels are also pretty much un-ridden so the spokes have not seen much stress.

When you use new spokes with an old AW hub the longer elbows warrant the use of spoke washers to get the heads to seat properly and this builds a better and more long lasting wheel.

These are not expensive but can be a little troublesome to source... I have 1000's of them.

gna 12-07-13 06:14 PM


Originally Posted by Schwinnsta (Post 16309897)
What do you mean by this? I am not understanding. Guess I will soon.

Thanks everyone for all the info.

I'd take a picture, but it's -2 F and my Raleigh is hanging up in the garage. What I meant is that I couldn't line the rims up exactly--when I had the valve holes lined up, the Raleigh rim went left/ right with the spoke holes, and the Sun rim went right/left. So I had to offest the valve holes. Not sure if I'm helping...

Schwinnsta 12-07-13 08:52 PM


Originally Posted by gna (Post 16310446)
--when I had the valve holes lined up, the Raleigh rim went left/ right with the spoke holes, and the Sun rim went right/left. So I had to offest the valve holes. Not sure if I'm helping...

I have a feeling I will know, when I start. BTW, my rims are 36 spoke each, Westrick. http://sheldonbrown.com/images/ralpatrim-beige.gif

yodatic 12-07-13 10:25 PM

What if you flopped the rims 180 degrees ? tom

noglider 12-08-13 12:07 AM

yodatic, that doesn't work. That's like turning a pair of righty scissors over, hoping that will turn them into lefty scissors.

Salubrious 12-08-13 11:17 PM

I'm rebuilding a Humber Sports right now. The rims were really shot. I *thought* the spokes would be the same size so I just got new ones and put my CR-18 rimmed wheels together... and took them apart, probably about 4 times, on account of the original spokes being too long. But the rims I started with were Raleigh rims, similar to the Sturmey Archer rims. The CR-18s have the spoke holes slightly recessed and that was the difference.

Bicycle Addict 12-11-13 05:17 AM

2 Attachment(s)
Hey all, Paul here from little Ol' NZ, back after a little hiatus, I am building up a bare steel Phillips that will be 3 speed , with new STEEL rims(yes!!) I would love some CR18's but will go with these steel ones from CP, my question is can any one help me find one of these grips?

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=354694

I have one and need a 2nd, I would like to find more but think that might be a bit hard.
Sixty Fiver your thread here is proof that some things get better with age, it has been a source of inspiration when working with these old work horses get the better of me from time to time!?
Thanks to everyone else who has contributed too.
Here is a pic of the bike in its heavy brush painted goodness.
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=354695
I know the owner of this Robin Hood is in this thread and do hope you do not mind me using this pic, I think the bike looks great and is a muse of sorts.

Gasbag 12-13-13 09:08 AM


Originally Posted by Bicycle Addict (Post 16320256)
Hey all, Paul here from little Ol' NZ, back after a little hiatus, I am building up a bare steel Phillips that will be 3 speed , with new STEEL rims(yes!!) I would love some CR18's but will go with these steel ones from CP, my question is can any one help me find one of these grips?

I came across these while searching a set of grips for my brides DL-1

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1950s-Raleig...item4616fa5c78

Bicycle Addict 12-14-13 03:16 AM

4 Attachment(s)
Hey Gasbag, Thanks for the reply, those are the exact grips I am looking for, I am hoping to find a set over here as I do not have an eBay acc,
Here is a pic of a 3 speed that I picked up today for $40 NZ, the lady removed it off the auction site after we had been talking saying that a family member wanted the bike, then yesterday she rings me and says her relative felt it was too much work!? In I stepped and picked it up today.
It is a tidy one that was repainted a while ago, paint is still good so I will not repaint but clearcoat. I have some new steel rims available CP ones although I think I may hold out for alloy ones? I don't know.
Here are some pics, also a pic of the gold Phillips in a mock up.
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=355034http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=355035
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=355036http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=355037

yodatic 12-14-13 07:36 AM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 16311115)
yodatic, that doesn't work. That's like turning a pair of righty scissors over, hoping that will turn them into lefty scissors.

Doh! you're right ! Must be th chmo, lol. tom

noglider 12-14-13 02:54 PM

Chemo? How are you doing? Cancer s*cks!

Bicycle Addict 12-14-13 07:29 PM

Yea cancer is horrid, I hope through it all you have things that make you smile(bikes bikes bikes), life is all about the little things.

Bicycle Addict 12-19-13 05:02 AM

I have read a few small pieces on cotter pins saying the generic ones are not good? I have them available cheap and am not able to get from overseas as I do not have a credit card , so can they be made to work? Why are they not good? I know atop the threaded shank there is a step before the taper that is not really there on the originals so I would guess they leave the cranks not aligned? (Bloody Newbies!?!?)

rhm 12-19-13 07:40 AM


Originally Posted by Bicycle Addict (Post 16342312)
I have read a few small pieces on cotter pins saying the generic ones are not good? I have them available cheap and am not able to get from overseas as I do not have a credit card , so can they be made to work? Why are they not good? I know atop the threaded shank there is a step before the taper that is not really there on the originals so I would guess they leave the cranks not aligned? (Bloody Newbies!?!?)

I'm perfectly willing to believe the "better" ones are indeed better, but the generic ones are good enough for me. They haven't caused me any problems at all.

The important thing is to use a pair of cotters that have exactly the same taper, because the taper is what determines the alignment of the cranks. If the tapers match, and the length is about right, and the diameter matches the hole in the crank, they should work fine. The better ones are said to use better steel, which may well be the case, but I suspect it's more a point of pride, especially among Raleigh riders who want the cotter nut to have that little R on it.

When properly installed the cotter is under even pressure over its length, so you want a steel that will not deform or shear under pressure. What do I know about steel-- I figure almost any steel will do.

BluesDaddy 12-19-13 09:40 AM

FG hub innards

http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/q...psyqt14ad5.jpg

I came up with the idea of threading each bit onto an old cable as I removed it , to keep the pieces "in order".

Salubrious 12-19-13 10:36 AM


Originally Posted by rhm (Post 16342480)
I'm perfectly willing to believe the "better" ones are indeed better, but the generic ones are good enough for me. They haven't caused me any problems at all.

The important thing is to use a pair of cotters that have exactly the same taper, because the taper is what determines the alignment of the cranks. If the tapers match, and the length is about right, and the diameter matches the hole in the crank, they should work fine. The better ones are said to use better steel, which may well be the case, but I suspect it's more a point of pride, especially among Raleigh riders who want the cotter nut to have that little R on it.

When properly installed the cotter is under even pressure over its length, so you want a steel that will not deform or shear under pressure. What do I know about steel-- I figure almost any steel will do.

If we are talking about a Raleigh or Raleigh-owned brand, the cotter pins will have a flatted portion that tapers across the entire pin. If it only goes halfway you won't be able to get the pin to go though far enough to engage the nut. There are several problems with the generics. The taper (filed area) is not consistent with them so you should hand-pick them from the bin if you have such an opportunity, or expect to file them a little to make a fit. Another problem is you may well have a cotter press (do not attempt installation without one BTW) but the nut can easily strip despite proper installation otherwise. If they are not matched your cranks won't be 180 degrees apart.

When you install a proper pin in your crank you will instantly be wondering why you messed around with the generics. I only use generics for dry fits to make sure my project it going together right.

You can get proper cotter pins from the Bikesmith (http://www.bikesmithdesign.com/CotterPress/cotters.html). While you are at it, pick up one of his cotter pin presses if you don't already have one- they are essential!

Sixty Fiver 12-19-13 11:01 AM


Originally Posted by Bicycle Addict (Post 16342312)
I have read a few small pieces on cotter pins saying the generic ones are not good? I have them available cheap and am not able to get from overseas as I do not have a credit card , so can they be made to work? Why are they not good? I know atop the threaded shank there is a step before the taper that is not really there on the originals so I would guess they leave the cranks not aligned? (Bloody Newbies!?!?)

The generics are made of softer steel and need to be filed / dressed to fit... they are inferior to better quality cotter pins like the one Bikesmith offers.

Bicycle Addict 12-23-13 07:36 AM

2 Attachment(s)
Hi all, so I have had a little play with the bike, generally just cleaned,oiled things, changed out the front brake cable inner and outer(Tektro outer:rolleyes:, but in my defense it was all I had) I also changed out the brake pads for some wtih some life left in them, as the old ones were down to the metal.
This bike is the best condition one so far, I paid $40 NZ (around $32 USD or 20 Pounds Sterling) for it and it is in need of a repaint in something very hard similar to the original Raleigh paint, tough.
I would also like to find some Bluemels (are they still available in 26 x 1 3/8?) and turn it into a 50's day tourer.
So it is no where near the quality of some of the rides here, but I have high hopes . . . .it is a Raleigh after all, a diamond in the rough?
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=356291http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=356292
So as you can see I have a long way to go, I would like to get some ride time before I pull it down for a repaint though.
I will re lace some new CP steel rims in, the hub is not selecting properly, I will change out the cable(Is it pretty straight forward?) thinking this and some oil should hopefully do the trick, I have a 28 hole hub as back up parts, so hopefully I will be OK
I have some CP Westwood rims to lace up for the Phillips I showed in a previous photo, because I will leave that as a pretty bare single speed coaster brake bike, I will either clear coat that as bare steel or go with the deepish blue that looks like it may have been the original colour.
Thanks

PalmettoUpstate 12-24-13 12:17 PM

4 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by Bicycle Addict (Post 16352898)
I would also like to find some Bluemels (are they still available in 26 x 1 3/8?) and turn it into a 50's day tourer.

...

So as you can see I have a long way to go, I would like to get some ride time before I pull it down for a repaint though.

Looks like you are on your way to a true resurrection of a great bike; keep us posted!

Fenders...

Don't know if you'll find Bluemels but thought I'd share a pic of a "grocery getter" that I did up for one of my daughters...

These fenders are very light & seem durable; they are "blems" and you can see the flaw on the rear fender in the first pic

I have forgotten the brand but I have more sets in storage and can find out the brand if you want.

3rd pic is "after" baskets and "before" fenders.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=356439 http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=356440 http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=356441 http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=356442

nine14six 12-24-13 04:36 PM

This is a terrific thread and one of the reasons I come back to lurk on the C&V section. Here's my contribution. The frame is from a basket case that came with another bike I bought, and it was so sorry looking that I almost trashed it. But, I had some paint left over from another project and after locating a few odds and ends, and way too much work by a cycling buddy who's pretty handy with a hammer and spray gun, this is the end result. In no way did I want to make a period perfect restoration, it was just something that came together on an ad hoc basis with no regard for history. I put in a link to a photobucket slideshow deal if you want to see more pics.

Slideshow

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...psc7983f4a.jpg

markk900 12-24-13 08:29 PM

Love the powder blue with red pins.....I am all for patina but once in a while something like this one comes along and makes you think about how cool a fresh new bike looks....even if its not period correct.

clubman 12-24-13 09:14 PM

Agreed, you nailed this one, worth every hour and penny you put into it. I'm doing one or two of those next year..

noglider 12-25-13 01:00 AM

914, that's a really nice job! If you had described it to me I would have said not interested. This is an interesting take on it. I'm glad you didn't aim to make it authentic but you kept most of the spirit.

Bicycle Addict 12-25-13 02:24 AM

Nice build 914, simple, but very striking.

I am glad to see a lighter colour (Sorry for the NZ/British spelling of "color") in a build up, I would keep like to keep any mint, near mint bikes original, but in a case such as this a whole world of possibilities open up. I want to do one in chrome yellow Hot Rod paint.

I think is the beauty of this concept of bike, heavy steel tube that be painted almost any colour and look good, my mates dads Raleigh had been in the family since the 50's and had been about 10 different colours most of which may well have still been there!?

nine14six 12-25-13 09:54 AM

Mark, Clubman, Tom, and Addict, thanks for your comments on the custom Raleigh. I also prefer leaving a bike as original as possible, but that one evolved into a different deal. Here's a 1963 Sports that I bought for my wife that's in pretty close to original condition. She loves it. It had a bad shifter and rotted out cables, but aside from that it was just a matter of cleaning and polishing. Not too bad for a 50 year old bike. I'm always impressed with the durability of the original paint and chrome from that era, not to mention the comfortable ride you get from these bikes.

Photobucket Slideshow

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...ps75f14602.jpg

sykerocker 12-25-13 03:14 PM

And a happy Christmas day to everyone. A wonderful afternoon doing a few miles on the DL-1 on a sunny 35 degree day. Now to settle in front of a warm fire with a couple of bottles of hard cider.

JBC353 12-26-13 08:47 AM

Nine14six, it is really gratifying to set a good old bike back to right, whether original or a new take in the same spirit. Here is my latest effort to bring one back from the brink, a '69 DL1 24". A sweet ride.

http://i926.photobucket.com/albums/a...s/69dl1ds1.jpg

arex 12-26-13 11:26 AM


Originally Posted by nine14six (Post 16356838)

Where is the correct position for the shift cable pulley? I see pics of a lot of Raleighs that have them at the top of the tube, close to the seat, but I've seen a few (including the frame I'm building) with the pulley at the bottom, just above the bottom bracket. IS there a correct position, or is it at the discretion of the builder?

Salubrious 12-26-13 11:41 AM

Its up to you. Usually though on a Gent's the shift cable runs along the top tube, with the pulley as seen in the prior post.

On a Lady's, the pulley by necessity is by the bottom bracket. If up high it is more exposed, but likely going to get less dirt.


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